Illuminati theory holds no scientific mereit

Show us some proof. The fact that humans have used triangles for several thousand years proves absolutely nothing.

If you people think that Bush is one then go get a DNA sample and prove it.

Originally posted by Yandros

If you people think that Bush is one then go get a DNA sample and prove it.

How is a DNA sample going to prove whether or not somebody is a member of a 'supposed' secret society/organization?



[edit on 10/20/2006 by pstiffy]

And what have triangles got to do with it?

I think you need to present a little more information before you claim the illuminati has no 'scientific mereit' (sic).

Personally I think there is some group running things above and beyond the known governments. Our history and the way the world has developed imo shows this in many ways. Whether it's actually called the Illuminati I have no idea. But wealthy groups have always had influence over government policy. Basically the government works for whoever can pay, and is made up of people within those circles. Why else would presidents and prime ministers all come from the same ruling backgrounds. All is not what it seems....

Anyone can become president, as long as you have the right relatives, and the right connections. And connections are made in secret societies, that you can only join, or be invited to join, if you have the right background.

So it is quit logical that a group, Illuminati or not, is really controlling things.

Oh, ok my mistake. I thought that the Illuminati theory was the same as the reptile theory. Bush is meant to be both right? So a DNA sample would give some indictation?

The illuminati theory in that case is pretty much useless since you can't prove it either way and its based off a bunch of symbols?

I don't buy into the reptile thing, at least not literally. The ruling elite are reptiles, but not physically...

You need to do some research, before you dismiss everything. That way you can separate all the theories instead of lumping them altogether under your umbrella of 'Illuminati'. Illuminati does not instantly mean reptiles, and you don't have to buy into the symbology thing to see that 'something', or 'someone', or 'some group' is pulling the strings. There is a lot of BS in the Illuminati theories, but there is also a lot of truth. Research, education, understanding and life experience should enable you to see which is which.

I consider this to be research. I watched a video on google video just before posting about Illuminati. And one thing I have learnt over the years about conspiracy theories is this: If the theory has scientific merit then the science is always shown first. Because you simply cannot fool nature.

And therefore I ask, is there any reasonable evidence to suggest the existence of such a group past the use of symbols and co-incidental similarities between the ages of man?

Don’t presume I’ve dismissed it. I wouldn’t be here asking if I had done that. But it certainly isn’t looking like anything worthwhile.

When you look at theories such as the moon landing, or 9/11, you know straight away that there is something to them. The science is presented first and it runs along these lines: Here’s the official story, and here’s what’s wrong with it.

In this case you’ve just got this theory hanging in air; its not a counter argument to an official story but rather a freestanding theory. This means you need a lot more evidence to prove that it is correct. From what I’ve seen so far there is little or no evidence beyond speculation on coincidence.

I'm not sure if there is any hard evidence to prove beyond a doubt there is a group, or groups, of people above the government that really runs things.

Do you need hard evidence before you believe everything, I'll bet not, and we can argue that later...

There is also intuition, gut feeling, whatever you want to call it. Or just simple observation and understanding of the 'system' we live under, capitalism. The gaining of wealth, privilege and power by the few at the expense of the many.

It is possible, in the realm of science, that there could be a group of people controlling the worlds, or at least Western governments, right?
So you get a group of ultra rich powerful men, you think they wouldn't try to control things to their advantage? That's what they do isn't it? That's how ppl become rich and powerful by manipulating events to their advantage. You know history is full of it, unless you never read.

So to think it wouldn't go to the level of controlling governments is naive and dangerous imo. It has, and a loooong time ago.

Don't you just find that Bush and Kerry both being Skull&Bones a rather odd coincidence? What are the odds? Well very high when all the members are pulled from the elite being groomed for such high positions. It's all controlled through secret society, good 'ole boy organizations who thing we are nothing but chattle to use and abuse to help maintain their wealth and power. If people could see this then they wouldn't be wondering how their own government could kill 3000 of it's own citizens in staged terror attacks. Or send it's citizens to die in wars that to us appear to have no benefit.

Let me explain something here.

The difference between something that is real, and something that is not real... is hard evidence.

If you don't have it, then your theory does not have scientific merit. And drawing false conclusions from coincidence is most certainly a faith or bad science analysis method.

Just because its possible doesn't mean it is. And just because big coincidences are rare doesn't mean they don't happen.

How in the world could you prove the existence of the Illuminati through science? Therer's nothing scientific about it to be proved. They are a group of elites supposedly running the world, where is the science?

Baron Rothschild helped Adam Weishaupt to found the Bavarian Illuminati back in the 1700's. THe govt finally wiped them out because they were getting scared of what the group might do. But we don't really knkow if they were completely wiped out, no one knows that and they could well have just gone underground, like the Nazis.

Whatever they're calleld, they do exist. There is a large elite network and they go by many names: Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign RElations, etc.

Please tell me what is scientific about a secret society and how you would prove their existence thru science?

Originally posted by Yandros
Let me explain something here.

Just because its possible doesn't mean it is. And just because big coincidences are rare doesn't mean they don't happen.

Well if you actually read my posts I think I agree with you, there is no proof, right?

But like Forestlady said, how do you scientifically prove the Illuminati?

And again you must have misunderstood what I said, either that or you just want to argue. Maybe there isn't an Illuminati, does it matter? There is still wealthy people running things, whether you want to believe it or not. My life experience has proved it enough to me, maybe that's what you need, some more life experience? Because no one is going to able to convince you scientifically that they exist, you're asking too much.

Just go do some research on secret societies, Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg group.
Don't be naive to think that the wealthy elite wouldn't try to run things, they do and have since governments took over control from the church.

So genious go ahead, explain something too me, I won't hold my breath...

[edit on 21/10/2006 by ANOK]

If a group controlled all the world and everything within it I don't think there could possibly be any hard evidence for their existance. Afterall, if they control everything then they control what you see, think and hear. The only evidence such a group would allow would be the evidence they would want you to see.

Originally posted by forestlady
How in the world could you prove the existence of the Illuminati through science? Therer's nothing scientific about it to be proved. They are a group of elites supposedly running the world, where is the science?

Be careful,Forestlady, that is one of the things that no-conspiracy pundits use to "disprove" that there are any conspiracies. They say that since the theories can't be proven one way or another, they must be false. To me, their assumption is fluff, but that is what no-conspiracy pundits maintain.

The reptilian theory is only one theory. There are many Illuminati theorys out there.
The Illuminati is a group, it was founded "Officially" in 1776, Bavaria Germany.

The opposite side of the U.S. seal reads;
Annuit Ceoptis Novus Ordo Seclorum
1776

This translates roughly into, "New Secular Order".
Add on the Pyramid and Eye symbol which goes back thousands of years and the fact that the official illuminati was founded in 1776 with the same seal as their official symbol and youve got one hell of a coincadence.

Anyone who doesn't believe in the existance of this group, whatever you might call them(Illuminati/New World Order ect.) just hasn't done the homework.

The illuminatis work can be seen through out history, I'll give some examples.
WWI: Which was manipulated by the Rothchilds, Rockefellers and others to secure profitablt millitary spending, and to test biological weapons. The 3rd Reich: Was sponsored by the Rothchilds, Morgans, Bushs, and others upto and during the war with America. WW2 was also designed to ensure heavy millitary spending further incresing the wealth of these people, also to design and successfully test a nuclear bomb. Vietnam: Was again manipulated by the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, ect.. primarily for the same reasons as the others, to increase profits through heavy millitary spending. and of course loaning our government money to pay back to them in millitary costs. Brilliant. :claps for the Rothchilds:
What a sceme; Start a war, supply both countrys militarily, supply both countrys money supply, charge them to loan money you print out of nothing, and then take the money you just gave them right back in millitary expenses. All the while collecting taxes and intrest for the money you loaned out..

I don't need solid proof to know what's going on or not, because in the world we live in now there is no solid proof left. We have no proof of who was responsible for 9/11, those who say we do blindly believes in the goverment that shows no proof to you, only words. The elite that controlls the world controlls everything, they have so much controll that it's out of what most people can think and they get to quick conclusions. Like why didn't the media say anything about this UFO disclosure? Because they controll the media, they controll everything. They have the power to do anything, they can inject memory into our mind that has no origin.

I'm glad i am aware of this possiblity and makes me somewhat immune to any controll of that sort, because i understand it. (i hope)

The Illuminati have only shown themself through cryptic text and images. Like the 20$ dollar. My life experience have opened my mind, i see things different from many others i know. Those i have try'd to present it to trys to debunk it by tiny errors they can find that has nothing to do with the big picture, because they cannot accept the reality i present to them.

Proving stuff real by sciense is also a blind manipulation by the ruling elite. People believe in sciense as much as religious people believe in there religion. Sciense is grosly incomplete and doesn't have an answer to almost anything beside weak consepts that makes it seem to work, but most of us have seen how many flaws sciense have when it hits the big challanges. Sciense can only present to us what the scientist believe is correct, and they are human beings. Sciense has been presented to us as the fact of all things and when it has so many flaws i would rather call it a religion almost every human accept.

What i hope you will learn is what kind of world we live in. Freedom dissapaired after 9/11. It is time to wake up and expand your perspective of the world!

GreatWhiteCheney, I couldn't have said it better. I've been researcing this alot for years and that's exactly what I think happened, too.

SpeakerofTruth: I am in no way a debunker of CT's. And I would never, by itself, use the phrase "You can't prove it one way or another". I was referring to the fact that proving the existence of the Illuminati through science is impossible because it has nothing to do with science. You're asking that a group of unknown men, with an uncertain number of them, somewhere on this planet, be proved through science that they exist.

If people want evidence concerning the illuminati I suggest you look it up your self.
Look into some of the members of the C.F.R.(formerly Round Table Group), Trilateral Comission, Federal Reserve, Bilderberg meetings, CIA, ect..


JFK single handedly tried to dismantle the Federal Reserve and the CIA when he was in office. He even signed an executive order allowing Congress to make gold and silver backed paper currency instead of the FED. This of course risked the FEDs monopoly on producing and loaning U.S. currency to the government. The Illuminati was not pleased.
The CIA was pissed at Kennedy to. After the Bay of Pigs incident where the CIA launched their private army on Cuba without Kennedys approval in the MIDDLE of the Cuban Missle Crisis he fired the top three guys at the CIA and started cracking down on them.

You see what happens to those who tamper with their plans, no matter who you are.

But then again, if they are allowed to take over, you'll die or be driven to some sort of slave-labor anyway. (Since these people publicized a document through the U.N. stating they would like to "liquidate 80% of the world population").

Originally posted by Yandros
Show us some proof. The fact that humans have used triangles for several thousand years proves absolutely nothing.

If you people think that Bush is one then go get a DNA sample and prove it.

Yandros, do you find it to be merely coincidence that certain humans have used triangles for several thousand years? Why would you presume that such is being done?

You have a point in mentioning DNA sample because if not reptilian, there is alot of reference to bloodline influence in some form. If not Bush, who could merely be a "talking head" someone supposedly has a bloodline connection to who, Atlanteans? through Cain.

Ah, Sundaymorning ponderances!

reply to post by Yandros


People in control of money is no theory cause it's a fact.
So rich they can live in a fantasy world. Like Disney Corp and puts you into
many or their mind controls through the years.

Well, they admit to it themselves..

"
Some even believe we [Rockefellers] are a part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United states, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure—one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I’m proud of it.
"

This is from a book written by David Rockefeller himself.

/Thread

Originally posted by Yandros
Show us some proof. The fact that humans have used triangles for several thousand years proves absolutely nothing.

If you people think that Bush is one then go get a DNA sample and prove it.

What illumiati? What's that? Is that slang?

What about the global government pushing mega-elite?

Bilderberg Club.
Club of Rome.
CFR
TLC



They do exist.