You are in a Matrix (you are not you)

This was originally going to be a reply to someone in the conspiracy in religion forum about the use of '___' in religion. (tryptamines and God)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I stated there, as I will here, that I have not experimented with any illegal drugs...
(the discussion in the other thread was concerning '___' and how it is also found naturally in the brain as well as in plants, but I will leave that topic for the other forum, except to say that my experience seemed to be a "natural" '___' experience produced by my own body)

not your normal experience...I can promise you this. I will repeat the story briefly.

I had been doing a lot of meditation while listening to Eckhart Tolle.
The lights were off, it was night time, and I was FULLY AWARE and AWAKE (this is not lucid dreaming) I laid on the floor, closed my eyes for literally a few seconds, and then I found myself looking at the plant on the desk beside me. (I was on the floor and instantly up, in other words I "projected" as it were, myself from the laying down postion to upright.)
I observed the plant and desk as it was interesting how I could see it in detail while laying down...my ability to imagine things, let alone in detail, are not grand at all.
So then I turned to walk toward the door, and before getting to the door I stopped. (This is not lucid, again, it was not a tired, shut my eyes and doze off scene...all my senses were there, but I was on the floor and off of it... anyway) At the door, I decided to stop (something happened, which I will not say as its for me to ponder to help me figure out what happened.)
But after the something happened I decided to "lay back down" I did NOT lay down, I decided, and I felt myself from feet away all of a sudden "sucked back" I was on the floor without going back by walking. Now at this point something wierd happened, which is harder to explain.
All my feelings before this happened and while it happened, were the same consistent, no breaks, as if it all happened in this realm of reality without sleeping, etc.
But now, there was a break...the whole reality of me left...period...I was "drawn" (bad description, but hey it works) or pulled up to something that was beyond me, but yet a thread of something (fear, I admit), a needle worth, pulled me back and then I was aware of DAlen again.
It was so brief, but I realized an apparent truth as it reltates to the experience...that the reality I was in was just one version of any multiple realities that I so chose...but not I...for this reality was as fake as the rest. The only thing that separated it was that "I" or the person "higher than me" chose to play this role more. I dont know who this I is, but I know that who you would see typing this and also the thoughts of my mind, is not the real "me" as I became aware of in this experience. (Can be quite humbling to realize that our mind is tricking us to make this huge ego.
Brings up another concept about death. Everyone is so attached to who they are that they make up religions to make sure they continue to exist as who they are.)

Then I opened my eyes.
This took me by surprise. Had I known it would happen, I would have thought, "o.k. tell my wife to observe me to see what she sees...can she see this, is she affected by this "reality", or for her would it appear it took place soley in my mind, etc.

Since then I have been ever so curious to repeat it...Alas, time has passed, and no experience.


peace

Dalen

fascinating to say the least...
Sounds a little like what some remote viewers experience.

Is it just coinsidence or simply by chance that our ability to see is called 'vision' where as experiences we have in meditative states are also called 'visions'?...

Reality is very subjective. We don't actually see or hear anything. These perceptions are simply an interpretation of the physical mind with its chemicals and nerve endings essentially 'painting' a picture for us to "see". A happy little movie for us to watch, if you will....
Perhaps your meditaive state allowed you to see from 'behind' proverbial "projector".
As you described, fear is the biggest 'buzz killer' (for lack of a better term). Fear DID keep you from going furthur into the 'voyage'...and this same fear keeps so many of us from thinking "outside the box".

My question is: Did you feel alone or did it feel like there was someone there with you?

Originally posted by PULVERlZER
Perhaps your meditaive state allowed you to see from 'behind' proverbial "projector".

Fear DID keep you from going furthur into the 'voyage'...and this same fear keeps so many of us from thinking "outside the box".

My question is: Did you feel alone or did it feel like there was someone there with you?

- seeing behind the proverbial projector...totally a better way to describe the last part with the "insight".

- yes fear did keep me from finding out who was "running" the projector
(but what is stranger is it was just the slightest amount of fear in comparison to what happened, but despite how miniscule the amount of fear it actually acted as an anchor to "bring me back."

- No I did not feel like anyone was with me in the latter, in the former it was literally like a continuation of waking reality.

Peace

Dalen

Very interesting & beautiful story. I have never had an experience to that degree, but I've had a similar "feeling", so to speak.

I've described it before, as best as I could already in another topic, but I'll do so again.

Sometimes, when I think(Or sometimes, when I don't think) about how it feels to be someone else, or the beginning of the beginning, I get this sinking feeling. Sorta like I'm falling inside myself. When that happens, I do not "feel" real. I feel like, maybe a thought. Nothing at all seems real.

It's as if my mind opens to nothing. But the instance I "think" about it(However, think is not the word to describe it though), I instantly snap out of it & everything seems to be as it were. It's a very strange feeling and it's one of the reasons why I believe their is more to life than what we know, or think.

It's such a deep feeling. Makes you wonder if the word "life" is even the word that should be used to describe what we know.

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” Max Planck Physicist.

Also from "What the Bleep"and I have to paraphrase because I dont remember the exact quote....(Have you ever viewed yourself from the mind of the observer?)

Do either one of these quotes have any relevence to your experience? If not call me slow or dumb but im not sure exactly what your experience was then. Or is what you described an out of body experience? I love this stuff so pardom me for being nosey.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by etshrtslr]

Just because you leave your body doesnt mean we are in the matrix. You can leave your body its called "Remote Viewing" not the matrix.

Originally posted by Pepperslappy
Just because you leave your body doesnt mean we are in the matrix. You can leave your body its called "Remote Viewing" not the matrix.

- Words are symbols, or rather pointers.
If I tell a dog to look a the moon and point with my finger, the dog will follow my arm as it motions to the moon and stop to look at the point of my finger...never looking at the moon.
Same with words....they point past themselves. Language is limited and you have to look beyond the actual word being said.

SO...the use of matrix is a pointer. Your right, we may not be in the matrix...it could be worse, there is no you on the other side and you are totally fake here...thats a true mind trip/blower.

- Remote Viewing needs to be defined. If you read my experience carefully and if you know how to remote view, or even if you watched professional sessions free online, you will know this.
Remote viewing is NOT the ability to see objects and virtual realities as if you have your eyes open. People see rectangles, circles, etc. Basically symbols are drawn and they get better at understanding the symbols and what they are by trial and error Its not all glamourous...
If this is remote viewing then its hyper light years ahead of what others are doing...so I rule it out, as will other remote viewers who know the current definitions and boundries of remote viewing.

Now for all fairness, this actually is new, I can only say those that might relate are those who have used '___' (see the thread at the top to tryptamines and God). '___' is a natrual occuring substance in the brain, again see that thread to understand more. As I do not, and have not used any psychoactive substances, I can only attribute this to a natural occuring of '___' in the Brain.
I dont know as I have not used any herbals with '___' in it to help reproduce the effect.

So in this sense, it would be hard for someone to relate to the experience unless you read what happens to shamans, etc. in their religious ceremonies. (this wasnt as long or as wild, but a general theme seems to go along that we are not in reality as it seems, etc.)

Thanks for your input, hope that clarifies something.
Again, Im not pushing an idea on anyone, Im sharing an experience.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 20-10-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by etshrtslr

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” Max Planck Physicist.

Also from "What the Bleep"and I have to paraphrase because I dont remember the exact quote....(Have you ever viewed yourself from the mind of the observer?)

Do either one of these quotes have any relevence to your experience? If not call me slow or dumb but im not sure exactly what your experience was then. Or is what you described an out of body experience? I love this stuff so pardom me for being nosey.

[edit on 19-10-2006 by etshrtslr]

Your not slow or dumb, and please excuse if I cant answer the question.
My wife and I totally enjoyed what the bleep, we bought the extended Quantum version just a couple weeks ago. It was loooong, and excellent. You have to take bytes to follow, or really have nothing to do, or to concentrate on while your watching it.

I guess you could say the observer...but not in the sense that most people think of it who are waking up to the fact that they are not their mind. It is similar and maybe on the same path...but this was like a full baptism, but so quick that I could not relish and come back to implement any concepts that I took away from the experience.

It does allow me to believe that eckhart, is on to something (and like you quoted from what the bleep, the mind of the observer), and that with perseverance, and seeking the truth, and actively practice implementing the meditation techniques...being able to live a lifestyle of consciousness in day to day life....then there lies a hope to experiencing what we see presented to us in movies, such as what the bleep. (i.e., that you have unlimited possibilities, options, etc.) That movies has great concepts, but for practically making it work...well it feels a lot is to do with mind, or rather, letting go of the mind to regain it as a tool.
The way we look at things, percieve things, etc. takes time to to change.(especially the older you are) I am totally different then I was 10 years ago, 4 years ago, etc.
When you open up, your view point can change so drastically, and you can recognize yourself in others, so to speak.

Not to be long winded, but to get to the last part of your question...if you want to understand my experience, read the tryptamines thread about '___' in religious experience, etc.
That is a starter. I have never used drugs, etc. (I state that in the other thread), however the experiences of herbal hallucinogens in shamanic ceremonies struck me as odd in how similar it is to my experience, and seeing that we already have some of the same chemicals naturally occuring in our body, then it brings up the possiblity that this is something locked within us, that we can "wake up" to. As I said, I have been unable to reproduce the "effect", and I have not taken any substances such as what the shamans use, to help reproduce the effect to further evaluate the experience in a "scientific" manner.

Anyway, thanks for your interest...

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 20-10-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by PULVERlZER
Is it just coinsidence or simply by chance that our ability to see is called 'vision' where as experiences we have in meditative states are also called 'visions'?...

Reality is very subjective. We don't actually see or hear anything. These perceptions are simply an interpretation of the physical mind with its chemicals and nerve endings essentially 'painting' a picture for us to "see". A happy little movie for us to watch, if you will....
Perhaps your meditaive state allowed you to see from 'behind' proverbial "projector".

Totally dig the whole statement up there, thought it was worth quoting it again for peoples attention, as it ties into etshrtslr post of what the bleep. These type of questions do help a long way in trying to understand experiences such as mind. What does it exactly mean, I havent any conclusions...yet...everytime there is an idea it just goes deeper into the rabbit hole so to speak.

I think with how our human minds are, we have to "gently" go through the rabbit hole.
We get new insights, and over time we realize we are not the same person anymore.
i.e. take a zionist neocon and imagine them suddenly dropping all their dogma.
Well that is pretty much the viewpoint I could have possibly been assoicated with years ago, before the term neocon was introduced and zionist was the buzz word.
Point is when your open to truth, all of your "Conditioning", some of us from how we were raised have it worse than others, comes down. It may take longer, but the puzzle comes together in pieces, not has a hammer to smash you. (you could say this is God gently molding you, though I am hesitant to use the word God from its misuse through the centuries, and lack of understanding of the term...)

So point is, you can be the most down to earth person, but you will find that some concepts are hard to swallow. Well time goes by, you find something else to help support the previous puzzle you were unsure of, and you keep your trip down the rabbit hole, and your mind stays in tact.

Imagine taking a well conditioned Zionist Neocon (as I came from there, I feel free to use this as an example) and tell them that nothing they believe is true, then tell them they dont exist, etc., etc. (and imagine its where there is undeniable proof.) Well one, if its not like a hammer on there head they will go away mumbling as you just gave them a chunk...and will not want to accept it or debate logically about it. (years later they might shift), but if it just fell on them, they would possibly break in their psyche.
Pain, suffering is what usually leads people to waking up. Usually its peoples own demon, the one possessing them is the mind, or the thinker.

So wrap this up in saying, bit by bit...the puzzle will come.
There are no special people with special things happening that others can have.
There is just what is. The above will get you stuck in ego...

Peace to all on their journey

Dalen

Originally posted by dAlen

So wrap this up in saying, bit by bit...the puzzle will come.
There are no special people with special things happening that others can have.
There is just what is. The above will get you stuck in ego...

Peace to all on their journey

Dalen

I agree so much with this. And whenever I say anything like this to people (a lot of my friends are Mediums/Psychics etc) they get really mad with me. I have lost many friends over me telling them they have a bad case of the ego.

And they don't like to hear it. I generally just go pfffft and walk away.



For eg:
What is an Ascended Master

I agree with you, and for a few reasons.

A couple weeks ago or so, I experienced "Seeing through my first eye". My eyes were closed, but everything was bright. I could make out distinct shapes, I could pour then drink a glass of water, walk down stairs, I could perform lots of different tasks. Everything had a yellow tint, more or less. Liquids were bright, and the computer monitor and television set were so bright, I couldn't look at them for a long time. Blindfolded, I could still do all of the aforementioned tasked.

Thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another reason, is that there is simply no way to prove it. I could give you a pear, then the sight, sounds, tastes, smell and feel of a pear, you couldn't tell the difference. At the rate computer technology has advanced, in another 10 years, there will be a mini-universe on each teenagers desktop. There's no telling if the year is really 2500, or 3000, and we're all in a machine. Thats virtual reality for you, eh?

I don't know that I am not a brain in a vat.
If I don't know that I am not a brain in a vat, then I don't know that I have hands.
I don't know that I have hands.

My own ignorance to such stories prevents me from agreeing with this thread.

Originally posted by 3_Libras
My own ignorance to such stories prevents me from agreeing with this thread.

Good thing is there is nothing you have to agree with.

Seriously I have not seen this thread in quite awhile and forgot I posted it.
Im glad to see it again - for the experience I posted in it (the memory) has not left me and I still ponder about it. (Im guessing you read the first post I made here.)

In saying that there is nothing to need to agree or disagree with.
It merely is an experience I had. I tried to use words to point to something that I do do not know...that which lies beyond the physical.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen


What you expereienced (IMO) is a classical Out Of Body Experience or OOBE The only thing that wonders me was that from what I understood , after you got out of body you were in a different place then where your actual body was lying . While oobe you can travel to different places (usually at first its not to far from your own body ) , but I have never heard about somebody getting out in a different place than his body was originally located .

Also You might try and check a few threads about OOBE and try to redo the experience as you seem to be more prone to it than most people ..

oh I was just reading this and thought it might be what you experienced in your obe

Did you ever asked your self this "Who am I?"

Most people haven't really contemplated this question enough. Meditate on it. Contemplate it.

I am whatever I identify with!

"Identification means that we mentally or emotionally lose ourselves in something inside or outside of ourselves. We become absorbed in a person, a place, our career, a hobby, our personal viewpoints... When we identify with our thoughts, we call it day dreaming... Identification also means to wrongly take something as being part of our essential selves. Take the physical body. That is merely a vehicle for living on earth. Your True Self does not consist of name, body, money, home, career, or your personal beliefs.

You are something entirely different from these attachments."

Most people identify with their body, ego, job, fears, memories, beliefs. Most people think they are their ego / personality roles - eg. Mother, Businessman, Poor me, Intimidator, Aloof, Caretaker, Parent, Child,

Most people react without thought, acting out roles - automatic like robots!

Most people let their minds go on and on without contemplation, mindfulness, attention or thought about what they are thinking, saying, feeling, tasting, knowing, learning, eating, doing with body, speech & mind.

The roles we play are not the essence of who we really are. We are a river of many things, (& pure potential for anything), however here, as always I am interested in the pure essence of who we really are.

It is said, The ultimate realization is - I AM THAT I AM

source

cheers

Originally posted by Thurisaz
oh I was just reading this and thought it might be what you experienced in your obe

I am whatever I identify with!

"Identification means that we mentally or emotionally lose ourselves in something inside or outside of ourselves. We become absorbed in a person, a place, our career, a hobby, our personal viewpoints... When we identify with our thoughts, we call it day dreaming... Identification also means to wrongly take something as being part of our essential selves. Take the physical body. That is merely a vehicle for living on earth. Your True Self does not consist of name, body, money, home, career, or your personal beliefs.

The roles we play are not the essence of who we really are. We are a river of many things, (& pure potential for anything), however here, as always I am interested in the pure essence of who we really are.

It is said, The ultimate realization is - I AM THAT I AM

source

I will say that the source you quoted does tend to reflect how I view things of late.
And yes, to some extent is kind of the realization I had when this experience happened.

Thanks for the quote, good read...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Thill
The only thing that wonders me was that from what I understood , after you got out of body you were in a different place then where your actual body was lying .

While oobe you can travel to different places (usually at first its not to far from your own body ) , but I have never heard about somebody getting out in a different place than his body was originally located .

Also You might try and check a few threads about OOBE and try to redo the experience as you seem to be more prone to it than most people ..

Indeed I was fascinated for the longest time in trying to repeat this...well, the desire has never left. But it has not happened again. Kind of disappointing, but in a way Im not overly upset about it, because something in me knows deep inside that it will happen again. (It may not come in the form I 'think', though Im sure it will be along similar lines.)
It seems when things like this happen its always in a surprise form so that we dont have time to 'posture' for it. What I mean is you get to see where you really are...what it is you are thinking, feeling, your fears...(as I faced in this as well). Of note, it was the fear that linked me back to where I was. Interesting, dont want to develop a thesis around that one point alone.

But as classical OBE go, dont know.
Again, off the top of my head I would question the possible connection between all of the various experiences (OBE, NDE...I believe I related the 'NDE' experience I had when a car hit me and I was on my bicycle without a helmet to protect my head)

You mention me being prone to these things more so than others.
Maybe only due to how the circumstance align themselves. Given the right set up neuro chemically Im sure that others would experience (their own version) of what I did.

Im sure I mentioned (somewhere) that I had one h*ll of a year that year, as well as coming out of a deeper layer of OCD...I was listening and meditating on Eckhart and just letting go (really allowed the mind to chill) when this happened. I guess what Im saying is the stress could have been the precursor or catalyst that gave me what I needed to let go to the extent which this could happen.

Something similar to what the Zen guys do, I suppose, but they are more adapt to letting go without having to have the stress be what pushes them. (Stress is a fine method, if I can use those words...not really fine, as it does take its toll physically on you, so the release, or what-not, of the naturally occurring process of '___' in the brain through meditation without having stress be the point that drives you there, is preferred.)

Anyway...I actually re-read a note I made to myself the other day on an archive I had on CD. (It may even be in this post.) But it is something I kind of forgot about.
I made the point to note that I was aware that the me who is now writing to you is not real (well, in this case, the body that was there laying left behind), nor was the me who jumped out of the body. Both were as fake as the other. There was yet something further beyond me that was 'playing' me. (do forgive the words, I have not yet been able to wrap this experience in full with words that properly reflect which I felt...if you catch what Im saying.)

This is powerful in a sense, as it seemed obvious that what made the reality Im in now, vs. the reality I stepped out into more real is the fact that I invested more 'time' in this reality. It may be stating the obvious, but again this has profound implications if you consider the fact that this may be real. It goes to show that indeed life is made by the choices we make and we are not the victims of life...we only play that role.

Thurisaz posted a pretty cool quote that basically sums up one aspect, as I mentioned, of this experience. On one level it can sound nice and philosophical, and to many it will remain at that level. Yet on another level/place, on the experiential field ti takes on a whole new meaning. Its as if you realize that the words were just symbols that needed decoding and again, like words, point beyond themselves.

I do apologize for not being clearer. The truth is, this is yet as much as a mystery (not necessarily the fact that it may be related to the natural occurrence of '___' in the brain...but this leads to more questions of its purpose and connection to 'reality', etc), so this is yet a mystery to me in terms of the fact that I have not been able to experience it again.

In honesty, I still live wrapped up in my mind.
Im sure if I were to be able to find something (legally) to help reproduce the '___' like experience in my brain, I could verify if it is the same thing (or at least similar) or not - (to see the connection)

As of yet, that has not happened. What has happened, is that I have been slowly changing my perspective (well, slowly changing my life habits to my new perspective) so that what I talk about (dropping thought as something that dominates me so to speak) becomes a natural part of my life. In short, I expect that I will indeed eventually repeat this experience, just not sure when.

I will say that as of recent I have been having some pretty cool dreams.
Might not sound as exciting, but to me when I wake up in a clear state and am able to have more insight into an area, that is pretty cool indeed. I see this connected, with that experience long ago...as if that experience were a prelude or a teaser to whats to come.

Again, this is no big mystery in the sense that its open to everyone.
The jist of the whole thing is about finding ones own personal freedom and meaning in life. Im not sure how well I conveyed what I wanted to here, but it is as it is none-the-less. Perhaps one day I will be able to re-construct and re-write a lot of what I have posted so that it makes more sense.

On another note, Im realizing how more and more it doesnt really matter if I do this or not. In my excitement of my journey, I have had zeal, like many others (in regards to other things/issues of life) and wanted to share the enlightened tidbits I had.
Well, what is enlightened to me may be someone elses hell. And not only that, but to communicate my journey where someone else gets it is hard...because perhaps they want to find that particular piece of the puzzle for themselves.

In short what Im saying, is that Im realizing more and more the futility of even writing what I am now. I do so no longer out of crusade (and im not referring necessarily to this post, I dont feel Im out trying to convince anyone of anything), but because I enjoy writing. I suppose its the same with a search, we do it because its fun...its the game...the game of life.

We truly have whatever it is we need in us, and the rest, the interaction is on a surface level.

I fully anticipate that once I re-read what I just wrote that chunks of info will have been left out to clearly connect the pieces. I do write stream of conscious and rather fast...but there is enough info to play with. And after all thats what its there for, to play with. You have your game, and I have mine. Perhaps one day we will be able to more clearly see into each others 'universes' - not to get too 'spacy' with the talk

Peace

dAlen