World Trade Center + Explosives

Originally posted by Omniscient

However, there is a still a difference in the pictures. You can tell that the building is already at an angle in the CD picture you posted, which makes me think that the main supports of the building were destroyed by explosives.

So, the only difference is that the building is leaning. What?.....seriously.

Originally posted by Damocles


raise your hands if you please.

I'm quoting this for two reasons:

1. Hand raised.
2. Domacles has been posting on here for several months. I don't know what happened to his posts, but I can tell you I've read them. I don't think the argument "I don't know you so your statements are dismissed" is valid - unless we're going to dismiss all of each other's statements....which would probably be total nonsense considering pissing in the wind would be considered a more productive investment of time than hanging out here under those conditions.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
But we have scientists and Santa Claus backing us, who does FEMA and NIST backing them, a bunch of morons.

And you did say that thermite needed explosives to work. Don't back out of this...

So I am saying this in a nice way.. if you aren't 100% sure, don't say it.. cause things will blow up in your face sooner or later..

New poster who made this thread, take that advice also.. it will help you later on.

First of all you can stick your insults up where the sun don't shine. You are insulting people who disagree with you and "your experts" just because there are people who disagree with you?.......

Second of all, please don't try to tell me, or anyone else around here, "if you aren't certain of something 100% don't say it"...because honestly, a lot of the topics posted around here cannot be backed by anyone with half a brain...

Well then, if you don't have half a brain...don't post things you are ignorant about. Period Mauddib...

Or do I have to remind you Mauddib about thermite or thermate...which you honestly don't know # about....


Go ahead and warn me...cause it's worth it for this a**hole....

[edit on 10/20/2006 by Griff]

Actually it's not worth it for this "person" ...all I have to say is sorry to the mods...not Mauddib though....

[edit on 10/20/2006 by Griff]

[edit on 10/20/2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Griff

Do YOU know anything about thermite mate? I suggest doing research before spouting about something you do not know about.

Hmm...detonators can't ignite it huh? Do some research before you start to imply someone else doesn't know something when it is yourself who is ignorant of the subject.

I was thinking about thermate which is a mixture between thermite and pyrotechnics. I guess it does show I am not an expert in explosives but neither are you... and please don't try to insult me when you have made worse mistakes and you claim to be a "civil engineer"...

Two of my favorite people just being dickwads to each other. What the hey is going on? I know darned well both of you are dedicated to finding the truth, even if your path doesn't align with mine. We all make mistakes, but we also (among the three of us) try very hard not to. My advice is....

the topic is more important than the argument. Just breathe.

You know what Vallahll...I have faith in you also...I'll take your advice and leave it at that. No offense Maudibb.....if you are here to find the truth as the rest of us. Then I give you a thunbs up also...you are a good debater.....

I mean that's most sencere...even though I can't spell it...Maudibb.... I think Valhall is right. Let's get over this petty something and get back to the real story. Whether it's on my side or yours, who knows, but let's stop with this petty crap. Please...I'd rather be on the truth side...how bout you?

Originally posted by Valhall
Two of my favorite people just being dickwads to each other. What the hey is going on? I know darned well both of you are dedicated to finding the truth, even if your path doesn't align with mine. We all make mistakes, but we also (among the three of us) try very hard not to. My advice is....

the topic is more important than the argument. Just breathe.

Thank you again Vallhall for putting it so delicately......I'm done arguing. You're right...the truth makes all the difference. Even if I'm wrong in my theories....the truth is what ABSOLUTELY matters....take care Mauddib and take care Vallhall.

Thing is Mauddib....let's both ,instead of being opposites....let's be friends and try and find the truth. No matter what our differences are......What you say?

Originally posted by Griff
..................
Obviously I got rid of personal information. I outlined the structural classes I took to show you that I have a structural background and am a structural engineer. I didn't get the best grades in college (due to too much alcohol) but that doesn't mean I'm not an intellegent person.

So, basically I take high offense to you questioning my engineering degree the way you do.

i also have an engineering degree, and I have posted in the past information to back this up, including how to find my credentials in an academic book. I even gave my name, which after thinking a bit more clearly i realized i shouldn't have done.... Anyways, you know what the response was? It didn't prove anything because i could have found the information online.

The same applies to you.

As for knowledge in explosives, I don't have an extensive background on explosives. i was in the military and was an aircrewman/aw, studied the physics of sound, how sound behaves in different medium, etc. i also took other subjects in physics while in the military, appart on classes on how to identify different aircraft and other information which is classified and i will never divulged for the simple reason that there are secrets which should never be public, whether some people agree with me or not. I also posted evidence of my military background, and again, the response was that i could have found that online, and it doesn't prove anything.

BTW, i don't work for the military nor the government, despite some people readily jumping the gun and claiming "he must be a government agent".... I left the military, with an honorable discharge, back in 1998. Now I work for an international company, Schlumberger, as an electronics engineer.

Now, do I make mistakes? yes i do, and i am sure that everyone, nomatter how many degrees, and how expert he/she might be, also make mistakes.

Now, as to the subject at hand, this and other topics have been discussed so many times that it really gets anoying when people post things which have been debunked. In this thread we have had people, including yourself, saying that "there were reports of explosives, and or explosions"... Explosions don't prove there were "explosives" btw.

The name of this thread itself is "World Trade Center + Explosives", then some people began talking about thermite, including yourself after apparently believing that there were explosives also, so we all made mistakes because apparently you can't have explosives with thermite, explosives will make the components of thermite disperse, hence rendering the thermite completly useless.

Now, as i have already said, i am not an expert in all explosives, i might know a thing or two but that doesn't make me an expert, but we do have some people who are experts in explosives. i want to ask these people a couple of questions.

That I am aware of thermite produces a chemical reaction which produces a lot of heat, which pretty much eats away anything on its path "downwards". In other words, it reacts almost like an acid would. In order for thermite to be used to collapse a building you would have to pour it around enough columns to make a structure lose it's integrity and collapse.

Here is a question; Since thermite reacts as an acid, wouldn't you need to spread it around most of a column in order for such a column to lose it's integrity? How could this be achieved in buildings which were built over, what 20 years ago or more?

Well that was one question and not "a couple of questions"...

---edited to add comments---

BTW I have a habit of reading what I write after posting, and then adding comments, or correcting errors.


[edit on 21-10-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Here is a question; Since thermite reacts as an acid, wouldn't you need to spread it around most of a column in order for such a column to lose it's integrity? How could this be achieved in buildings which were built over, what 20 years ago or more?

Dear Muaddib:

Exactly -- it's not feasible. Which is where this thread might fit in as a possible explanation.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

[edit on 10/21/2006 by Wizard_In_The_Woods]

But again Wizard, if there were any sorts of explosives all of the seismic recorders would have captured these explosions, which would have left P waves bigger than the signatures the crashes of the planes created in the seismic recordings, and not to mention that it would have been heard several miles away, yet it wasn't, the "reported" explosions which we really have no way to find if these reports are real or not, mention only "some" people which were right next to the buildings hearing explosions.

I found online the video that a couple made that day, beginning right after the first plane crashed against tower 1, and the video lasts a long time, nowhere did I hear any large explosions which would be there if there were any sorts of explosives used.

[edit on 21-10-2006 by Muaddib]

Here is the video if anyone is interested.

www.revver.com...

Originally posted by Muaddib
But again Wizard, if there were any sorts of explosives all of the seismic recorders would have captured these explosions, which would have left P waves bigger than the signatures the crashes of the planes created in the seismic recordings, and not to mention that it would have been heard several miles away, yet it wasn't,

Dear Muaddib:

What's up with that kitten doing push-ups thing? Kind of neat though.

Yes, there were seismic shock waves. SteveR just posted some info. I cannot figure out how to link it so I'll copy and paste.

Originally posted by SteveR
Here is a nice little short on the explained seismic shocks.

www.911review.com...

Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded strange seismic activity on Sept. 11 that has still not been explained.

While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.

The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower at 9:59:04 and a 2.3 quake during the 8-second collapse of the North Tower at 10:28:31.

However, the Palisades seismic record shows that-as the collapses began-a huge seismic "spike" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the Earth.

These unexplained "spikes" in the seismic data lend credence to the theory that massive explosions at the base of the towers caused the collapses.

A "sharp spike of short duration" is how seismologist Thorne Lay of University of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph.

The two unexplained spikes are more than 20 times the amplitude of the other seismic waves associated with the collapses and occurred in the East-West seismic recording as the buildings began to fall.

Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers actually hit the ground.

from: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

[edit: fixed quote]

[edit on 10/21/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

I was looking for an avatar and found the one i am using now. i found it funny and since i like doing push ups, and since my first choice was not proper because it is a part in a movie, I chose the kitty.

Now, as to the man who is claiming that the seismic readings show "explosions caused by explosives", I would need to see those graphs, because the ones i have seen clearly show that the collapse started slowly, after the crash of the planes which did leave P waves and some S wave traces in the seismic graphs, and then the seismic signatures increased, as more mass was added to the collapsing debris as each floor collapsed, and the wave signatures in the seismic graphs reached a maximum point when most of the mass of the debris hit the bottom floor, and then slowly began to disipate.

That's what the seismic readings show. Explosive signatures in seismic graphs do not start by "slowly increasing it's S wave signature".

[edit on 21-10-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Griff
So, the only difference is that the building is leaning. What?.....seriously.

A leaning that indicates a complete lack of structure. Yes.
Sarcasm and word choice isn't going to change the fact that the leaning has a significant meaning.

@val. thanks for the validation, my posts were lost due to an administrative error. happens.

since my body of posting on this topic is gone to the ether ill get around to posting some thoughts/examples this weekend if i feel better, though i doubt ill redo my calculations for the cutter charges by floor. i may, we'll see how i feel.

but as to the thermite thing, in another thread (bsb u know the one?) there were pics of guys using thermite linear cutting charges on another project. keep in mind i dont think that they were used in the wtc, but its not outside the realm of possibility. the materials do exist apparently. ive never used thermite for cutting steel, only as an incendiary device. (grenade form)

Originally posted by Muaddib

Here is a question; Since thermite reacts as an acid, wouldn't you need to spread it around most of a column in order for such a column to lose it's integrity? How could this be achieved in buildings which were built over, what 20 years ago or more?

But there's no such thing as thermite you can smear. lol Thermite is a reacting byproduct. It's not stable the minute it exists and will burn until it does not exist anymore (...which is a hell of a good reason for why Jones hasn't found "thermite residue" on anything, there's no such existable thingy).




[edit on 10-21-2006 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall

But there's no such thing as thermite you can smear. lol Thermite is a reacting byproduct. It's not stable the minute it exists and will burn until it does not exist anymore (...which is a hell of a good reason for why Jones hasn't found "thermite residue" on anything, there's no such existable thingy).

Yes silly, i was talking about pouring the elements that make the reaction of thermite possible. BTW does thermite reacts like powder? I don't think it does but I could be wrong. There would have to be several sources of high heat to start the reaction in enough places for this to happen right damocles?

Then again, the second the person/people start pouring the powders around columns, and ignite the high heat source, those same people are doomed because the reaction between the powder elements starts immediately after they are mixed.

Wouldn't also the reaction of thermite produce a pyrotechnic lightshow which all people would see? i am pretty sure it does and it would be hard to hide those.

BTW, i thought that Jones did claim he found residue of thermite, there was a thread going around with a header which stated this, i didn't read the posts on that thread but I saw the header of the thread around the forums.


[edit on 21-10-2006 by Muaddib]