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Originally posted by bsbray11
..
Mathematics Professor Kenneth L. Kuttler at BYU has presented a paper outlining this here:
WTC7: A Short Computation
He uses the time the global vertical collapse took to calculate the speed at which that occurred (ie THE GLOBAL EVENT IN QUESTION, spanning less than 10 seconds).
It was observed that the building collapsed in just 6.5seconds. Could this possibly happen as a result of pancaking floor collapse from top down?
Originally posted by esdad71
So the gentlemen at BYU states that it would take 8.5 seconds, which fits into the theory that the building, starting with the Penthouse kink, took close to about 15 seconds for total global collapse after internal structural failure which coincides to the 6.5 second collpase(video) and the NIST report of 8.5 seconds prior to the video showing collapse. Thats sums it up. Thanks for the article.
Originally posted by timeless test
The good professor says that the "observed roof fall time is approxinamately 6.5 seconds" but the problem is that I have looked all over the place and I cannot find any video that shows the complete collapse down to ground level so I am struggling to understand how he has observed it taking 6.5 seconds or any other measurable time for that matter.
Originally posted by esdad71
You are basing your ENTIRE arguement on a gif image,
You posted the link, it then bit you in the ass and you are now stating that it is wrong.
There was sufficient damage to the building,
and prior to the gif you are defending, the penthouse collapsed, which means internal collapse.
How f$$$$ hard is that to understand??? Seconds later, the rest of the building fell into itself. You do not need a degree in Engineering to figure this out, it is what happens when something loses its internal support, is 50 some stories high, and suddenly collapses.
You even suggest that fractions of a second are non applicable.
As far as wanting to slap me.
Originally posted by bsbray11
I have never looked for the whole collapse, but I have seen the collapse speed compared to free-falling objects
I have never looked for the whole collapse, but I have seen the collapse speed compared to free-falling objects, side by side in real time, and the speed does appear to be either equivalent or only off by a very, very trivial amount, fractions of seconds
Originally posted by timeless test
I'm sorry to appear picky now but after many categoric assertions that the roof line fell at or near to free fall speed you are now talking about the roof appearing to be falling at this speed. This, which is presumably a subjective assesment, is a very different thing to a calculated speed backed up by a mathematical proof and the basis for this opinion now owes nothing to the BYU calculations which depend entirely on knowing the complete roof fall time and the erroneous distance to be covered of 576 feet.
Originally posted by timeless test
I have to say that 1 don't recall seeing any seismographic data regarding building 7 whilst there is a substantial amount for WTC 1 & 2.
Mind you evryone seems to argue about the interpretation of the data for 1 & 2 anyway.
Originally posted by bsbray11
It would be interesting to match up with the collapse, because there were reports of huge explosions near the base of the building some seconds before the unresisted global collapse.
Originally posted by timeless test
The problem with this record is that the falling of the penthouse and the structure beneath it is difficult (or impossible) to distinguish from the collapse of the main structure although I have to say that even if we assume that the main collapse doesn't commence untill the second major spike there is still an awful lot of stuff hitting the ground at least 10 seconds later.
The freefall video clip is interesting but I'd be a lot more interested if I could read the data section and knew what height of fall they were assuming is shown as it is clearly not the full height of the building.
A working hypothesis is that the impact sustained by WTC 7 from the collapse of WTC 1 resulted in fractures in the fuel piping system (both the fuel pipe and the containment pipe) especially at the point where the pipes entered the valve box, which was rigidly mounted to the underside of the floor slab. With the base system and all of the modifications thereto, such a fracture would result in a small leak of residual fuel in the pipes at the point of the fracture. A fracture of the pipe at the valve box would release fuel under pressure that, if ignited, could produce a spray fire and/or a pool fire very near column 79.
Originally posted by LaBTop
has already a very cheap anti leak pressure-fall detection shut-off valve.
I suppose the very same things would have needed to be installed by law at those high pressure diesel lines, close to the pumps.
Anyone knows why anybody comes up with the idea of pumping diesel around in a high rise?
Howard, you seem to have investigated those diesel lines extensively, do you know that reason?
And the OEM bunker on the 23rd floor had 2 small emergency diesel tanks itself, no need to pump it up so high.
A 40-second seismic record for WTC7 can be found here:
911research.wtc7.net...
It would be interesting to match up with the collapse, because there were reports of huge explosions near the base of the building some seconds before the unresisted global collapse.
www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
--SNIP--
Note:
Seismograms recorded by LCSN Station PAL (Palisades, NY).
external image www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
1. Seismic record of the first plane impact at the North Tower (WTC-1) at 08:46:26 (EDT).
external image www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
2. Second plane Impact at the South Tower (WTC-2) at 09:02:54 (EDT).
external image www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
3. First Collapse of the South Tower (WTC-2) at 09:59:04 (EDT) Note: sensibility of graph 10x lower.
external image www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
4. Second Collapse of the North Tower (WTC-1) at 10:28:31 (EDT) Note: sensibility of graph 10x lower.
external image www.ldeo.columbia.edu...
5. Building 7 Collapse: 17:20:33 (EDT)
The problem with this record is that the falling of the penthouse and the structure beneath it is difficult (or impossible) to distinguish from the collapse of the main structure although I have to say that even if we assume that the main collapse doesn't commence untill the second major spike there is still an awful lot of stuff hitting the ground at least 10 seconds later.
(the rest of my past post follows now in its original form
It seems that LDEO took a look at that graph, and just as we can see, they noted the start of signals coming in at the 10s position on their recording. I can not find a conclusive visual event in New York which could connect to that 10s position.
Surely we have that dented roof from the NIST website, with the time added. Somehow I have more faith in that data, which everyone can see for themselves.
That means the first collapse signs from NIST recorded at a PallisadeSRecordingTime on the 23 s position is at least a confirmed one.
See now again this graph :
Then we are left with the biggests graph-signals positioned 4-5 seconds in advance of that 23 sec position, and they have an equal energy load as the first plane impact, (check signal peaks in LDEO graph of first impact) and that event surely did not went unnoticed.
However, LDEO wants us to believe that the WTC-7 collapse started 13 seconds earlier than the first obscure signs of starting collapse, the dent.
That can only mean one thing.
13 seconds before NIST can find a visual, some event comparable to the head-on collision of a huge airplane, shook the bedrock at the WTC-7 building.