California teen visited by the secret service...

CIA visit girl over web page - Kill Bush

Friday, Oct 13, 2006
California Grade 9 girl questioned about threats to Bush on MySpace

SACRAMENTO (AP) - Upset by the war in Iraq, a 14-year-old girl vented her frustrations with President George W. Bush last spring on her MySpace.com page.

Julia Wilson posted a picture of the U.S. president, scrawled "Kill Bush" across the top and drew a dagger stabbing his outstretched hand. She replaced the page last spring after learning in her Grade 8 history class such threats are a federal offence.

Too late.

U.S. authorities found the page and placed her on their checklist. They finally reached her this week in her molecular biology class.

Unbelievable Huh?

I really wonder what the true message is...

The CIA actually showed up and hauled her out of class...even though they'd already spoken to her parents and said they'd return once the teen got home from highschool...

This blows me away...

Is the CIA so incompetant and untrained that they can't discern a true "plot" from the conceptualized writing of a teenage girl?

Looks to me like they're sending a clear message...parent better make sure their kids don't speak up or speak out...

Scare tactics.

Secret Service not CIA...my bad...

[edit on 10/14/2006 by justgeneric]

[edit on 10/14/2006 by justgeneric]

Well, first, it probably wouldn't have been the C.I.A. that came to visit that girl. The C.I.A. is "supposed" to only function outside of the borders of the United States. Besides, the C.I.A. is not normally entrusted with ensuring the safety of the President of the United States or, for that matter, responsible for investigating death threats towards the President.

The U.S. Secret Service, under the auspices of the Treasury Department, is responsible for the safety of the President.

Regardless, the Secret Service takes any and all threats towards the President very seriously. Considering that it is against the law to "utter death threats" towards any person, much less the Chief of State, you can just imagine that stating "Kill Bush" on a web site is certain to attract "someones" attention.

Yes, this was the action of an immature girl, a young woman really. At the age of fourteen, however, this child would certainly know the difference between right and wrong. She probably posted this "death threat" out of frustration at the President's policies and she was, undoubtedly, ignorant of the law and the potential consequences. After all, she did remove the offending remarks after she learned about the illegality of her act.

Nevertheless, it was right, just and appropriate for the Secret Service to have given the child a visit. Oh one might say that the Secret Service would surely have something "better to do" than hassle a young kid. But, just what if, that child, in turn was indeed part of some crazed plot to assassinate the president. Then people would be demanding to know why this death threat wasn't investigated.

Yes, I agree that it can get absurd at times but there are rules, laws and all manner of regulations that must be followed regardless of inane it might seem.

of the SS investigating this kid to be honest.

Look, these are people who are entrusted with the safety of the Prez as you say...are they not trained to dicern between genuine threats and those that are simply not...

Tell me they didn't already have all the info about this girl before they went to visit her Mother? Before they went and dragged her out of class in front of everyone...

They knew the full story on this kid BH as that is THEIR bread and butter...

A phone call or a letter would have sufficed...she did take the site down and they had numerous months to follow her online activity...

This was in my opinion a clear case of one being made an example to many.

I won't argue the right or wrong of the girl's web page. Or even the fact that it is a federal offence...

This was a waste of time and effort...small fish in a sea of giant whales...

I think this goes beyond a kid making a mistake and being duly reprimanded for her actions.

What do these people in the SS do...spend all day everyday assessing, learning, dicerning and investigating sloughs of information...that's what...yet they still had to venture forth and put that fear out there...

I guess silence is golden after all...at least if you shut up and put up you never have to worry about the Secret Service visiting your kid at school or your family at home.

We condemn Muslims for rioting over a cartoon...yet we get our panties in a bunch if a kid makes the same sort of conotation...

Did they really not know enough about this kid, that they felt a personal visit was required? Isn't it their job to know what's real and what's supposed...what's genuine danger vs blowing off steam...

First of all, I am NOT BH, There is a distinct difference between our names when viewed completely. I am the benevolent tyrant NOT Benevolent Heretic. Besides being different people entirely, I am the first "benevolent" ANYTHING on ATS. Incidentally, I will be investigating the bt/BH conspiracy.... (lol)

Anyway, back to the topic....

A phone call to the girls parents just wouldn't do, would it? If you think about it, if the Secret Service were dealing with a real terrorist or assassin, you'd expect them to do more than just call their Mom....you'd want an investigation. That's why the Secret Service HAS TO do just that.

The Secret Service simply visited the girl, checked out "what was what"....after all she could have been somehow involved in an actual plot to kill the president....stranger things have happened. And when they discover that all is as it should be, a stern lecture later, the agents go home and the case is closed. All is good. All is as it should be.

Except that little girls' name is now on a list.....a long list of people to "keep an eye on" every time the President comes to her town...."they'll be watching her".

If this was indeed some such plot, and it succeed, could you imagine the outcry (actually, judging from the number of people that like the guy, it could probably be likened to more of a 'whimper' ) if it was found out the SS knew about someone involved in the plot before hand but only phoned up this persons mother?

The SS do a helluva job, and if I was the CIC I'd feel pretty safe with those guys watching over me.

Benevolent Heretic (couldn't resist) brings up some good points.

Typing you know...

Truly I still maintain that the SS would have known about this kid...enough to know she wasn't a serious threat.

But hey if the majority of tax payers don't mind shelling out for them to check it out...

I really think it could have been handled in a different way and at a different level.

I'm fairly certain the Secret Service have bigger and better things to follow up on.

Her page had been down for months...they already had enough data on her to be able to dicern the threat level and yes I think a letter or phone call or maybe even a pass off to the lacal law enforcement might have been a better option...

Yes...I'm sure the SS is doing a bang up job...re-read the post...I don't say nor imply they are not...in fact that is why I wrote the post. It is their job to find out all they can about supposed, implied or plotted threats...

So had they done their job wouldn't they be able to see the inherent differences between this kid and say...some whack job with a real plan...

It was basically a childish charicature...and as I said...I'm not debating the legalities of it...I'm questioning the response to it.

That's why they put on some web boards and now on myspace to put a disclaimer on it. If she would have done it to begin with, it wouldn't happen to begin with.

These days, if a young kid -- a teen perhaps -- posts that he is going to kill his classmates, do you think that a phone call to the kid's Mom would suffice?

If a kid threatens to kill his/her classmates, can we simply "dismiss" the whole thing as a teenage prank or idle threat? These days, in the wake of Columbine and a whole host of other school shootings, I just don't think that we, as a society, can take anything for granted.

The Secret Service were warranted, in my opinion, to check this girl out. They would determine if the girl had access to weapons, any knowledge of weapons, knowledge of any group or co-ordinated effort to kill the president or anyone else.

Just because a kid is "just a kid" is no reason to take a threat against the president or anyone else lightly. Remember, it is a very state but kids are capable of killing and, unfortunately, they DO kill.

written threat. No other implied threat. It was a picture - a charicature of Bush with a paint program draw tool used to crete a crude knife piercing his hand.

It wasn't what it's being made out to be. The girl didn't sit down and pen a 3 page web site devoted to the how's, when's and why's ...it was one picture with scrawled words.

Apples and oranges - Presidents and the general public. That's a given.

A teen writing about killing classmates doesn't require the Secret Service either.

Two completely different scenarios. The safety of a President takes a certain presendent above that of the general public. That's why he has CIA and Secret Service to watch his ass...and it is their job, their directive to DISCERN threat.

The teens page was a one picture thing...nothing else written relative to the picture.

This wasn't even remotely similar to say Columbine...or the more recent shootings in schools..not even close.

Those "kids" were clear threats -had web sites with multiple pages devoted to their angst and their proposed solution(s) for their angst.

The difference is stark and I'm surprised it would be offered as a comparison.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
If this was indeed some such plot, and it succeed, could you imagine the outcry (actually, judging from the number of people that like the guy, it could probably be likened to more of a 'whimper'

)

i can just imagine the people coming out in the billions praising the assasin

on a serious question?

is it a crime to threaten to kill Bush when he isnt a president?
or any other former president in the US?

anyone's life.

The question wasn't whether this girl's "Kill Bush" sentiment was illegal. As Benevolent tyrant pointed out it IS a crime.

The issue is one of response. Was the Secret Service justified to actually go out, interview this girl and do so in such a public way...and reminding you all, WITHOUT the presence of a parent/guardian.

The SS had said they'd wait and return to the home, when the girl arrived. Yet they did not, instead choosing to visit her at school.

The other issue is the effectiveness of the Secret Service...are they all knowing? If not and they have to investigate so thoroughly even the clearest non-serious threats to the President...then what the hell good are they?

Wishing Bush dead is a common theme...in reality it would change nothing there-for it's kind of a mute point.

sorry should be more clear

not actuily threaten to kill them but make say a conspiricy site or so forth that dipicts them being assasinated?

Yeah, I don't think the SS would kill someone unless they had a good legal motive to do so. Like with threats, etc. I think they just wanted to find out why she put it on her myspace and if she was really a threat. Since that's their job.

Originally posted by justgeneric
The question wasn't whether this girl's "Kill Bush" sentiment was illegal. As Benevolent tyrant pointed out it IS a crime.

The issue is one of response. Was the Secret Service justified to actually go out, interview this girl and do so in such a public way...and reminding you all, WITHOUT the presence of a parent/guardian.

The SS had said they'd wait and return to the home, when the girl arrived. Yet they did not, instead choosing to visit her at school.

The other issue is the effectiveness of the Secret Service...are they all knowing? If not and they have to investigate so thoroughly even the clearest non-serious threats to the President...then what the hell good are they?

Part of the Secret Services duties are to investigate threats or plots against the president. Her website consituted a threat, albeit a very weak one, due to the word KILL being used.

All they did was to investigate her. Yes, I'm sure they had a good idea of the facts going on. They tracked the myspace account back to her computer and ISP and probably figured out it was the 14 year old who had posted it. It could've however been posted by mom/dad using her name as an alias, in theory not reality. Making a phone call would they would not be able to adequately determine if they were talking to mom, dad or some care provider .. an adult friend or who knows. By showing up in person they can confirm that this was a non-existant threat put onto a website by a teenager who didn't realize the consequences of using certain words. After conducting their investigation, which includes interviews, they obviously determined there were no legitimate threats otherwise an arrest would have been made.

As far as approaching her at school, well if I post a threat against another person I should be prepared to answer questions regarding that threat, be it at my work, home or friends houses. It's not like they came into her school with their weapons drawn and cuffed her up and took her away ... sure they might have caused some embarassment with her classmates. Hey, they problem wanted to get the interview done with so they could get back to the office but quitting time. Can't blame them there.

There is nothing illegal with them contacting her at school and there is nothing illegal with her parents not being present during their contact. This comes up a lot when a minor is interviewed or arrested by the police ... in most states parents are not required to be notified in advance or be present during an interview of a minor. I think some states require parents to be notified if an arrest is made. The best way to protect our children is to inform them that if there is a police officer/official interviewing them or asking them questions about a crime that they need to demand their parents be notified and present before they can answer any questions.

Thanks for the support, smallmindbigideas. I just think some people get worried a little by the incident.