Is it time to leave the US?

It can't happen to the US, right? Some are saying wrong, Hitler was voted in too!

Having had a father inlaw that fled Germany because of the tyranny, I was wondering how many other people are having serious thoughts about how much longer we can afford to stay.

Do you think the path the US is taking is the same pre WWII Germany took?

What do you think?

How does one flee, when the regime gets like it did when people in Germany waited too long? How long do we have?

The US is not moving towards a totalitarian state. There is no need to flee from the US. Where exactly would anyone go, btw? Mexico? There are less rights there. WIth germany back in the weimar and early nazi period, there were places that you coudl go that were freer. Leave the US, and you're almost certainly going to end up some place that is even more restrictive.

I don't live in the US, but i have had similar concern as you in regards to the way that things are going.

If you look at the per-hitler time, all he did was manipulate public thinking into hateing Jews, and established a base of power, so i know what you are saying, as it appears as if the same thing could happen with the whole Muslim issue.

I hope we will never see the likes of Hitler again, but i know i certainly don't like the way the UK is turning into a big-brother state by the back-door.

id love to live in australia, my uncle lives over there...he said he'd never move back to england if you payed him.

Well I would like to move out of the US one day...not because I am afraid of a totalitarian state or anything (this is not happening) or whatever. But because it is very materialistic, fast paced, hectic, political head butting. It is the good and bad extremes of Western society and capitalism. So I would like to move some place more mellower...like New Zealand.

While I must agree with Nygdan that America is'nt on it's
way to being a totalitarian dictatorship.

I'd like to move out of America, simply because it's becoming to
strict, and religious.


America, whiel yes is a free country, is hardly a gleaming beacon
of freedom as it once was seen.


I'd like to move to Canada, but I dislike the gun laws.
That's one of the great thinga about America though, you can
own a gun.

Originally posted by iori_komei

I'd like to move out of America, simply because it's becoming to
strict, and religious.


America, whiel yes is a free country, is hardly a gleaming beacon
of freedom as it once was seen.

How is America becoming strict and religious?

If anything, if you look from the 50's to today we are less religious.

How is America becoming strict and religious?

To strict as in the degrading of rights.

To religious as in the politics, the reigning political party is scarily
religious on alot of issues.


You are right though, we are a considerable amount less religious
today than we were back than.

I would agree with you iori, that our politics use religion far more often than Western Europe. Let's face it, our political leaders are corrupt bastards and use the Christians (they are just now starting to realize this).

Our culture though, is very liberal and very against the bible's teachings though.

In light of the New Military Commissions Act...... I think saying that heading toward a facist regime is an understatement. Then we have the previous attorney general John Ashcroft saying that we can trust Bush to "not" abuse the use of this new power....

Doth he protest too loudly?

If one of the most free nations on Earth is headed for a totalitarian dictatorship (hmm...is there any other sort of dictatorship?), as some herein speculate, where are you going to run to? Maybe more importantly when will you stop running? If you won't stand up for this country, and help right the percieved wrong, whatever that wrong is, what will you fight for? Is there anything you'll fight for? Your childrens future? Your own future?

What is gained by leaving?

Originally posted by seagull
where are you going to run to?

Canada, Japan, EU.

If you won't stand up for this country, and help right the percieved wrong, whatever that wrong is, what will you fight for?

I would, up until I saw it as a totally futile effort.
What will I fight for?
I'll fight for freedom, for the furtherment of democracy and justice,
for the utter and total detruction, annhilation and death of anyone
who would dare try and get rid of the above.

Is there anything you'll fight for?
Your childrens future?
Your own future?

What is gained by leaving?

See the above for the first.
Never having chjildren, but I see the relevance of the point.
And yes.

By creating a union capable of destroying the negative force.

Born and bred in NZ retinoid I can say you'd love it.
That is if you love clean air, beautiful forrests, laid back people with a quirky accent, and the best damn rugby team in the world!
plus we're better than the aussies!

Originally posted by iori_komei
While I must agree with Nygdan that America is'nt on it's
way to being a totalitarian dictatorship.

I'd like to move out of America, simply because it's becoming to
strict, and religious.


America, whiel yes is a free country, is hardly a gleaming beacon
of freedom as it once was seen.


I'd like to move to Canada, but I dislike the gun laws.
That's one of the great thinga about America though, you can
own a gun.

America is becoming less and less religious everyday, especially compared to the way it was 50 or 60 years ago. I do agree that America is hardly the beacon of freedom it once was, in fact, I sometimes wonder why it's called the "land of the free". Even though it's far from perfect, it's still my home and the best place to live in the world.

By creating a union capable of destroying the negative force. If I understand you correctly, I'd be right beside you helping...however, how do you do that if you are leaving?

I can understand leaving if the fight is lost. To do otherwise is foolish, if not suicidal. I'm many things, but suicidal is way down on the list. But if you leave while the fights in progress, or before it even starts, how can anything be saved.

Iori Komei. Please don't think that I'm singleing you out. The questions are mostly rhetorical. I just liked your quote, is all.

Well I'm moving out of the U.S. right when I pass High School.

I love it here but I need to start a new life.

That why I moving.

however, how do you do that if you are leaving?

By making poweful allies, forming pacts/treaties, allowing the
fanatics who just hate the enemy for stupid reasons to be
foot soliders/grunts.

I can understand leaving if the fight is lost.

Which is exactly what I'd do, unless my presence somewhere else
would be more helpful to the effort.

Please don't think that I'm singleing you out.

Did'nt think you were, so no worries.

You people have obviously never lived in a foreign country. the grass is always greener crap.

Im living in the UK right now. Generally, I like it, but I really want to move back to the US, and so does husband. Its extremely restrictive here in ways you couldnt imagine in the states. The same in Europe in general.

And this aint the first time Ive lived outside the US either.

Materialism is alive and well and full force in western Europe, for example. In fact, its alive and well.............everywhere. Downunder included.

Unless you escape to a third world country and live in a grass hut in the middle of nowhere, you aint ever gonna escape it by leaving the country.

Living here I have realized a few things, good and bad about the states.

1. Americans are materialistic about the quantity of crap they have. Over here, they are materialistic regarding fashion, style, and appearance of their crap.

2. Americans are alot more optimistic and upbeat about life, even at its worse, than anyone Ive ever seen in Europe. In general, I can honestly say Americans are much happier and complain far less about stuff than Europeans do.

3. Americans really need better education in general. They do tend to be very clueless about geography, language, and culture.

4. The English show alot more pride in their homes and gardens. You definitely do not see overgrown weed infested front yards with cars up on blocks unless youre in the ghetto.

5. Americans can be pretty damn stupid. But people in Europe are alot more ignorant of American culture than youd think. They tend to believe hollywood movies, US sitcoms are accurate portrayals of daily life in the states.

6. Drivers over here are extremely rude, aggressive, and nonchalant.

7. People here are more open to environmental protections and conservation than they are in the states. Something I wish Americans would grasp the necessity of.

8. America is alot freer in terms of free speech, religon, and familial and personal rights. For example, home schooling here is extremely difficult to get permission for, unless you have a college degree. Society and government are far more centralized and regulated here in general.

9. Political correctness is completely out of control here. You can be arrested for making remarks that might be deemed racist even if your intent is not. Same for homophobia. There really is little to no freedom of speech in that respect. In the US, the Klan still has a right to their views. Just as we have a right to watch them and throw rotten tomatoes and doggie poop at them.

10. Unless you like over 50% of your diet being processed meats, dairy products, and alcohol, youll hate the food in Europe.

11. People here do drink alot. In fact, its hard to socialize at all without alcohol being present.

12. Europe has friggin security cameras everywhere. On the streets, on public land, lightposts, ect. And speed cameras.

13. People here do leave you alone. They dont shout from cars, honk, make noise, or do other annoying things for the hell of it. They dont say stupid things to you out of the blue when you walk past them.

14. For women: the men here are alot better behaved and arent predatory, pushy, unkempt, furry faced macho idiots. They dont openly oogle and stare at everything that has breasts and walks past. They are alot more subtle and do not intrude or stare at you like something for lunch, or start hitting on you shamelessly even when your husband is right there.

15. In England, people are alot more kind to pets and take better care of them than they do in the states.

16. The criminal justice system is absolutely pathetic. They dont have the death penalty here, which I can understand and accept. What I cant accept is the extremely weak, lenient, light punishments given to convicted criminals here. Robbers, burglars, rapists ect get disgustingly light sentances, if they are sentanced at all. Some are simply let out on probation and given radio tags to wear for tracking. Also, life sentances here usually only mean 10 or 15 years in jail, unlike in the states, where life generally means, well, you sit in prison the rest of your life.

17. The medical staff here are far more compassionate, carrying, and committed to healthcare than they are in the states. However, In Germany, my experience with medical doctors was most unpleasant.

18. You get taxed for things you never thought possible for, and thus, you have less income.

19. Americans tend to be far less inhibted in their personal interactions, as well as when they party. Generally, American bars and parties are alot more fun.

20. Hardly anything stays open past 6 pm on weekdays, and 4 pm on weekends, except bars and restaraunts. If you work late shifts, youre screwed.

21. The candy here, especially chocolate, is superior to what you find in the states. The pastries are not.

22. There is no such thing as wilderness here. You cant go 5 miles anywhere on this continent without running into another town, village, farm, outpost, ect.

23. People here are far less religous, which is nice. No bible bashers like you have in the states. Europe in general Ive come to learn is not Christian, but highly agnostic and secular. The only really religous people here are immigrants from outside Europe, mainly Muslims, Sikh, and Hindus.

24. Drug laws are far more intelligent here than in alot of US states. Its pretty much legal to smoke pot, provided you arent trying to set up a drug cartel. Basically, they dont waste time and resources arresting and jailing casual users or even addicts unless they have done something very bad.

25. After 9 pm, on public tv, you can see full frontal nudity and hear swearing on national tv. Depending on your mores, this can be a good or bad thing.

26. Radio really sucks here. It lacks the variety and formatting that we have in the states.

27. In the various woodlands and forests, one can walk and camp safely without the worry of being eaten by wild animals such as cougars, wolves, bears, and coyotes. There are no dangerous spiders on the UK islands, and the most poisonous snake is the adder, which is pretty weak and its venom is mild. The most common wild animal seen are foxes and rabbits. However, the diversity of wildlife in Europe is lacking greatly.

28. Europeans thankfully do not have the same obsession for loud car stereos than can be heard miles away. People here are alot more quiet with their music.
These are just my own observations. The list aint complete.

There are some advantages and disadvantages to living here. In general, however, I prefer living in the states. The reason I moved here was because of marriage.

Most people romanticize about living abroad, only to find out it aint so friggin great as you thought. if you people are unhappy about your living situations, move to another state. Ive lived all over the US and have found that each state is like a different country.

So leaving the US because of politics is lame. Its no where near as bad as you think, and, unlike other countries, we have limits on time our big leader can serve.

Youll find the US is about as good as it gets in alot of ways. Theres no place like home.

Originally posted by iori_komei

How is America becoming strict and religious?

To strict as in the degrading of rights.

To religious as in the politics, the reigning political party is scarily
religious on alot of issues.


You are right though, we are a considerable amount less religious
today than we were back than.

I think anyone has rights if they have the right amount of money. If anything it's all about how much money you have and what circles you hang out in - greed and power. It has always been about greed and power. Years ago people wanted to come to the US because they were fooled into thinking they could have an "American Dream" of freedom but what kind of freedom were they looking for and what kind of freedom do people look for today?
Religious? Well if anything the religion of self-God or scientology has risen quiet abruptly and is rising over other traditional religions. Makes the US look more and more striking doesn't it?

Well, no place i perfect, though I must admit, I was'nt aware of some
of those Skadi, though I must say, some of the things you
consider negative, I think are positives.