Man charged with Assault for criticizing Cheney

DrFungi:

You're filling in the blanks for the official side of this story.

No, he didn't. The "trained Secret Service professionals" haven't shown the public the courtesy or respect to say what happened from their perspective. All they've done is publish self-serving conclusory adjectives that convey no information whatsoever, i.e. disinformation to promote ignorance which many in the non-thinking public will automaticaly be duped into accepting as an explanation and let it go at that. Howards is painted as just another uppity troublemaker who was put in his place. That's what they want you to think and it seems to be working for you.

You say "3 hours of time isn't exactly worth much" I suggest you look at some of the damage awards given in false imprisonment actions. A google search would probably suffice.

I am not comparing them to the Nazi SS. They are the US SS, the Secret Service. You're suggesting that the acronym conjures memories of the Nazi SS which was destroyed more than half a century ago.

We in the US use acronyms for every government agency and many other things. This agency's acronym is "SS". That's all. Most people online don't have any memory of the Nazi SS and would never draw that comparison. Nor do I.

[edit on 10/15/2006 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Think twice next time before you pass off sarcasm concerning US democracy.
Apparently, you really do not know how good you do have it.

Really? is that a threat Seekerof? going to call the SS and have me taken away to a nazi camp for interrogation, I mean secret detention camp, we are in a democracy after all so they are called secret detention camps.

And yes I remember the 60s and I remember when life was a lot different and we the people meant something

Now the government does the thinking for us, spy on us, can strip our citizenship from us, can makes us an enemy of the state, tag us enemy combatant, use the patriot act to make sure we get our constitutional rights over written and then we have citizens on patrol to remind us no to be sarcastic about our regime in power.

Yes the good old days of we the people.

Guess what Seekerof our own regime in power is going to make sure that your children will never know how good freedom use to be.

Everything that is been done to us is ok for you but for me I only can take it with sarcasm.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by esdad71
He was handcuffed, detained, and released, all within 3 hours, long enough to not deem him a threat. What is wrong with that?

In America, if you exercise FREE SPEECH to defame an active politician... you are a THREAT until "DEEMED" innocent?

That sounds like PRESUMTION OF GUILT

What happened to PRESUMTION OF INNOCENCE?

What if 200,000 people were on the streets of Washington chanting,

"DICK: Your policies in Iraq are reprehensible!"

Should they all be handcuffed?

Should they all be held 3 hours?

Or should they all be allowed (freedom of speech) to keep on chanting... In his face if need be.

If the law does not apply to everyone it should not apply to Howard.

Either there is FREE SPEECH or there is not.

I have personally been arrested several times (and let go) for sh!t like this because I do speak my mind. Time and time again... it has been proven to me...

If you truly want FREE SPEECH in America, you can have it in the back of a police car, with your hands bound.

esdad71
If you tell a police officer to F### off, he will arrest you for assault.

This is a truism we cannot ignore.

It is also a truism we SHOULD NOT accept.

The presidency held by DICK'n'BUSH does not make them our Master's. They are to be our slaves; PUBLIC SERVANTS. Of the people, by the people, for the people...

You've be reflexivly brainwashed into believing that this behavior can go without public apology.

OLD AMERICA HAS DIED.

There is a new order. The coup has come. I do see a subliminal training ground occuring where a new paradigm of neo-totalitarianism is thriving.

Each week it becomes a little stronger. A little more justifiable... A little more ingrained.

The final solution is coming,

Sri Oracle - Wearing my new, via Sharpie marker, "DICK: Your policies in Iraq are reprehensible" t-shirt

Desperate times require desperate measures, whats interesting in many of the comments posted is the differing political views. Whilst you are arguing the rights and wrongs of this the US is slowing being turned into a dictatorship, some of you realise it but many do not.

If we take the article of the 14 year old who posted comments re kill Bush, many argue the right and wrong of this but nobody ask's why would a 14 year old even think like this. Why would a 14 year old be so politically active, and is it not a good thing that young people are taking notice of whats happening inside their country. This girl should not be dumbed down or told she does not know what she is saying. Young people are very inteligent and in alot of cases are more in touch with current affairs than many older people.

All these events seem in isolation to be of no real importance and appear unconnected, but that is not the case, they are related and they are about the people who criticise the authorities. The Goverment is using the old trick of letting the pro goverment supporters police the none supporters. You have seen it many times on ATS, people views and opinions are shouted down as upatriotict and that they hate their country, or their anti American. These are all tactics used by the people police to denounce and smother any dissenters and people with an open mind.

If you think I'm wrong , fine, just keep watching what happens in America (and the UK) over the next few years and you will ses what I mean.

LOL!
More waste of time and money.

Did any of you read the article I posted that was published when this occured, not the article that states he is suing.

From the Vail Daily

The U.S. Secret Service is offering no details about the arrest of Steven Howards, who they allege acted strangely around Vice President Dick Cheney on Friday during an economic summit in Beaver Creek.

"His behavior and demeanor wasn't quite right," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said on Friday. "The agents tried to question him, and he was argumentative and combative."

On Monday, another spokesman for the Secret Service refused to say what "wasn't quite right" about Howards' demeanor and whether federal charges were brought against Howards.

The agents tried to question him, and he became argumentitive and combative. This can be construed as obstruction of justice, and you can be arrested. Again, they were doing the job they are trained to do, and that is investigate what they deem a threat to the person they are protecting.

I mean, if they are such demons, why would they want to help also protect our children?

www.secretservice.gov...

One question, what did the USSS agent do wrong according to the law?

We are not slaves to our government, we are slaves to SUV's Starbucks and your over limit VISA cards. Presidents come and go, but that 13% interest rate is there forever

[edit on 15-10-2006 by esdad71]

E71 what they did wrong was to arrest someone who dared to voice his opinions, If howards had said nothing the SS would not have even bothered with him would they. If they are as good at their jobs as they are supposed to be then they can identify threats to the people they protect. All this person did was to make a passing comment to Cheney about Goverment policies, that is not a threat and the SS would know that. This is more to do with abusing their position of power and intimidating people, its going on all the time and will get worse as time goes on.


Here in the UK a man (elderly ex MP) was charged under Anti terrorist legislation for speaking out at a Goverment rally, A young women was charged under the same legisaltion for looking suspicious whilst walking home on a path for cyclists only. These events are all abuses of legislation designed to combat terrorism, and should not be used to deny people their rights in a democracy.

DId you read the article, the part in the post I just made? No, you spout rhetoric without research.

Originally posted by esdad71
Did any of you read the article I posted that was published when this occured, not the article that states he is suing.

From the Vail Daily ....

One question, what did the USSS agent do wrong according to the law?

We are not slaves to our government, we are slaves to SUV's Starbucks and your over limit VISA cards. Presidents come and go, but that 13% interest rate is there forever

[edit on 15-10-2006 by esdad71]

Sorry, shortened your quote.

I did, I can't believe no one else did. But my guess is, it may have gone a little bit both ways. He may have accidently acted like he was going to hurt him or something. But that's debatable. Esdad71, that's what I think may have happened. I don't know for sure myself. Althrough, if he clearly wasn't a threat they had no reason to detain him or arrest him for no reason.

funny, i didn't see anyone post about not losing any freedoms yet.
generally a topic like this gets all sorts of attention from those people

so it seems ok for arabic people to be wrongly imprisoned but its not ok for american people to be.
i wonder what what part of "all men are created equal" they don't understand...

Esdad71, I fail to see what the goverment's study on school shootings happenings becomes revelent. Outside the odd happening of the SS investigating it. But otherwise, I don't see what's too "odd" about it. Unless, the other department's are too back in researching other kinds of federal criminals.

People within this post are painting the USSS as demons and Nazis, which they are far from. I think many of you who compare GWB administration to the Nazis need a history lesson.

Originally posted by esdad71
I think many of you who compare GWB administration to the Nazis need a history lesson.

Do you not see a thing similar between the 2/27/33 Riechstag Fire and the 9/11 WTC?

Where do you think the Bush family fortune came from? The paper trail doesn't lie.

Who was Fritz Thyssen?

No one compares what the Nazi's did as a whole to the GWB admin...

The GWB admin IS the continuation of the Nazi Regime.

The Gestapo 'carte blanche' IS the PATRIOT ACT, HOMELAND SECURITY...

or SS arresting a man for daring to utter dissatisfaction with the VP, etc.

The KILL BUSH call of the 14 year old girl is the reverberation in time of the call for Operation Valkyrie.

There is your history lesson...

Gleichschaltung,

Sri Oracle

Thre is nothing similar to Reichstag, it was german soldiers who performed the act, and blamed in on someone else. This did not happen on 9/11.

Many families had interests WW2, and the Bushs were one of them. I mean, I don't see people picketing Volkswagen or Daimler Benz, and there technology and engineering KILLED millions in WW2 and were supported by the Nazi regime. You cannot chose to look at some thing and not others, or you live with blinders on.

Our current administration is not continuation of hte NAzi regime, and I would ask you nicely to not state that. You are again, calling me a Nazi, which I am far from. I believe in my country, and as far as I know, that does not make you a Nazi.

Originally posted by esdad71
People within this post are painting the USSS as demons and Nazis, which they are far from. I think many of you who compare GWB administration to the Nazis need a history lesson.

Well no really, see history tells that before Hitler turned ugly he was quite a charismatic man and well spoken, something that Bush never was.

He gained support from his followers dividing the country population, much like its happening now in the US.

Then both sides tuned against each other one side supporting his policies and views while the other screaming foul play.

Much like now in the US and very visible in these boards.

Then he turned ugly.

Hitler gained power in a Germany facing crisis after World War I, using charismatic oratory and propaganda, appealing to economic need of the lower and middle classes, nationalism and anti-Semitism to establish a totalitarian or fascist dictatorship. With a restructured economy and rearmed military.

en.wikipedia.org...

Take away charismatic oratory propaganda and leave the media propaganda, replace anti-Jewish for anti muslin and there you got sounds so familiar.

History tends to repeat itself if left unchecked.

See in order to understand history you have to start from how things became they way they are, not just when they were already bad.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by marg6043]

From www.infowars.com on their article about the new 10 lane Nafta Super highway: "The Mexican trucks, without the involvement of the TEAMSTERS UNION, will drive on what will be the nation’s most modern highway straight into the heart of America."

- www.infowars.com

From wikipedia entry on Gleichshaltung:
The period from 1933 to around 1937 was characterized by the systematic elimination of non-Nazi organizations that could potentially influence people, such as TRADE UNIONS...

From rawstory.com 9/27/06:

Law to Remedy the Distress of the People and Realm,” [in Nazi Germany 1933] was short and simple. Its operative provisions were as follows:

Article 1 In addition to the procedure prescribed by the constitution, laws of the Reich may also be enacted by the government of the Reich….

Article 2 Laws enacted by the government of the Reich may deviate from the constitution as long as they do not affect the institutions of the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the President remain undisturbed.

Article 3 Laws enacted by the Reich government shall be issued by the Chancellor and announced in the Reich Gazette….

[]What it meant was that the executive was empowered by the legislature to decide what the law was. He was empowered to ignore the constitution. Neither the courts nor the legislature would have means to check executive power.

Ok... and so apparently the following is NOW being considered in Congress:

This appears all over the net, but ctrl+c, from "WTF of the week" at www.ericabaker.com

SEC. 106. HABEAS CORPUS MATTERS.

(a) In General- Section 2241 of title 28, United States Code, is amended--

…(N)o court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any claim or cause of action whatsoever, … including challenges to the lawfulness of procedures of military commissions under this chapter.

No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

NO COURT, JUSTICE, OR JUDGE

SHALL HAVE JURISDICTION TO HEAR OR CONSIDER

Laws of the Reich may also be enacted by the government of the Reich.

All Hail!

Gleichstaltung,

Sri Oracle

...and for those of you who still think that the nafta super highway is a bunch of CTER....

here's the first official statement I've seen:

109th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. CON. RES. 487

Expressing the sense of Congress that the United States should not engage in the construction of a North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Superhighway System or enter into a North American Union with Mexico and Canada.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

September 28, 2006

HItler took an impoverished nation, removed thier leadership and then attempted to take over the world. He was evil from start to finish. Stop the comparisons please.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by esdad71]

Yes, for goodness sake's these guys aren't that bad. Their not perfect or good, but their not like Hitler.

Originally posted by esdad71
HItler took an impoverished nation, removed thier leadership and then attempted to take over the world. He was evil from start to finish. Stop the comparisons please.

It's not the political goals that matter in this situation. It's the means by which political power was gained and the actions that the administration is taking now which can be comparable to the Nazis that are the issue. So Bush can be compared to hitler in that way.... Oh wait, that's not what this discussion is about is it? That's what this thread is for.

On topic, If the man's account is correct esdad, do you think it would be a grave abuse of power, and infringement on this man's freedom of speech?

Yes or No