Report Chemtrails.

you shouldn't tell afirmative agenda that he is contradicting him self or he will be all over you like a pitbull on a poodle.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

You contradict yourself here. There is such a thing as Google (which I don't trust), or you can use www.scroogle.org to do a search. Let me know when you have done that and we can talk.

I contradict myself? I'm sorry, but you'll have to explain that one to me. Where have I contradicted myself in the statement you indicated?

You can find "tons" of "hits" on "chemtrails" if you Google it. I have yet to find, and you have yet to SHOW me, one single verifiable shred of evidence to support the claim that there is a vast conspiracy to spray ANYTHING over the globe from ANY aircraft other than the occasional crop duster.

Please prove where I have contradicted myself as you erroneously claim. Then, find me one verifiable, scientific fact that supports this theory. You can Google it if you like.

Let me know when you have done that, and maybe we can talk....

Originally posted by selfless
Who in their right mind would think this is a contrail?...

Why not?

please be specific.

Why can't that be a contrail?

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Why can't that be a contrail?

Because if it's a contrail, "chemtrails" don't exist, right???




Mod edit: Shortened unnecessary quote of the entire preceeding post

[edit on 2006/10/26 by Hellmutt]

[edit on 26-10-2006 by selfless]

Here is supposedly a way to detect chemtrails from rain samples, if you can really detect the metals in the rain after a spreading that will be another proof added to the subject of government experiments or shadow government or who ever is doing it.

www.anomalies-unlimited.com...

Originally posted by selfless
Here is supposedly a way to detect chemtrails from rain samples, if you can really detect the metals in the rain after a spreading that will be another proof added to the subject of government experiments or shadow government or who ever is doing it.

www.anomalies-unlimited.com...

You posted some good links selfless, and I can see that there has been enough testing by the government in the past to warrant concern.

I guess my main point of contention here is all the images that are posted with intentions that they are proof of chemtrails. First of all, there appears to be no chemical analysis or air quality tests ever posted with these pictures. In other words no scientfic data other than somewhat abnormal looking pictures of contrails and occasionally atmospheric conditions. I stated in my first or second post of this thread that I have indeed seen these types of contrails with planes going into Midway Airport near Chicago. They are not perpendicular but rather form a funnel facing north (as planes bank from the SE and SW to fly in). My thought process follows that there is no way these contrails I see can be chemtrails because they would risk contaminating areas near the airport (plus when they are around they are blatantly obvious and numerous). That, coupled with the facts that there is little to no cargo traffic going into Midway and that the flight paths are readily trackable, leads me to believe that what I am seeing are simply contrails formed under the right atmospheric conditions. So it makes it hard for someone like me to believe that these very similar pictures are hardline evidence of chemtrails.

It is the reports of government testing and actual chemical analyses that are getting me going on this issue. Some of it IS very intriguing, but there is definitely not enough evidence for me to say at this point that it's fact (because I discount the images for reasons stated above). I need more physical scientific evidence before I can even form a proper opinion for or against the theory.

Originally posted by selfless
Who in their right mind would think this is a contrail?...

That plane most likely had a ground speed of around 500 knots. Look at this picture:www.airliners.net...

That 747 has a app speed of around 145 knots, I have no doubt, that in some conditions at 500 knots a trail like that can occur.


[edit on 26-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]

Originally posted by selfless
Here is supposedly a way to detect chemtrails from rain samples, if you can really detect the metals in the rain after a spreading that will be another proof added to the subject of government experiments or shadow government or who ever is doing it.

www.anomalies-unlimited.com...

There are also any number of biological and geological substances contained in rainwater that can cloud it after boiling. The type of heat and vessel used can also affect clarity. Now if you were to do a chemical analysis of the material to see if there were foreign elements contained in the sample that would be much more worthwhile.

Originally posted by Fiverz
There are also any number of biological and geological substances contained in rainwater that can cloud it after boiling. The type of heat and vessel used can also affect clarity. Now if you were to do a chemical analysis of the material to see if there were foreign elements contained in the sample that would be much more worthwhile.

Well yeah it says the test is suppost to show the metals in the water.

And im prety sure that once the veil ( is that the english word?) cools off the fog of the heat on the glass dissapates and you can see the metal compounents inside the veil in the light.

But im not saying this is full proof but it sure is worth a look at and a possible way to detect ilegal aviation activities.

Originally posted by Fiverz
leads me to believe that what I am seeing are simply contrails formed under the right atmospheric conditions.

Well there are some things that i considered when thinking these could simply be contrails here are a few.


1. Before the 2000's or a little bit earlier i have no memory of planes that comes together and forms patterns in the sky and releases contrails that lasts for hours and expands to join together with the other lines in a web pattern and then create a giant thick layer of weird looking clouds and i can remember events of my life from when i was 3 years old.

2. When i see a few planes come to and release contrails on cue at the same spot in the sky and then stop them at the same place i think to my self that it's not random and there is no switch that releases contrails, it can't be turned on or off at will.

3.When i see planes in the sky flying the same patterns as other planes that releases contrails that lasts a whole day long in my blue sky and then i see some planes that are not flying the same patterns release normal looking contrails that disapates in a matter of seconds it appears to me that the planes who comes together and stay in my area for hours and do circles and create these webs of contrails in my sky are doing it out of purpose for something other then just flying.

4. Looking at the history of documents on military tests with chemicals like these, it's not hard to believe that they are still doing it. after all the military or government or shadow government showed in the pass that they do not have one zit of intentions for the wellbeen of the population, it doesn't make it far fetch that they are releasing harmfull agents of chemicals in our atmosphere, infact it would supprise me more if they didn't do bad tests on us.

5. Obviously i am not alone who noticed that something is not right with these new styles of ''contrails'' as when you search in google for chemtrails you get 930.000 results and it's still rising even more. so this leads me to believe that there is something to consider here that millions of people who see something is up ''literally'' are not just stupid they actually care about the health of our race. this includes pilots and people that worked in the aviation who are proving some concerns about this chemtrails phenomenon and if think there is no pilot that knows something is wrong well, www.google.com .

6.The news report of nbc and fox about chemtrails telling us that it's possible because they are gonna make a law that makes it legal for them to test weather modification methods on it's population, shows me that they are trying to prepare the public subconsciously for the time when this will be common knowledge just like they did in the pass and they continiue to use this method via news networks.

7.The reports of people who are getting sick due to supposedly chemtrails are increasing and they are very present, metalic substances in weather modification methods would be a high possibility as to why these people are getting sick.

There is many more reasons as to why i don't think these are simply contrails but the number one reason is what i feel and what i see with my own eyes when i go outside in the nature because i do live in the woods that what i see in the sky is not a natural thing and it does not feel right inside and that afterall is my number one source of perception, not science.


I keep saying this and i will say it again and i think i represent everyone who thinks chemtrails are a reality when i say this,
We are not fans of chemtrails, we think it's real but we DO NOT want it to be real for the fact that our reason for finding out the truth on this matter is for the sake of the healh of our race so if we were to want this to happen it would contradict our whole motive for investing time into spreading consciousness and awareness on this issue.

All we want is peace and a chance to be healthy under natural circumstances.

Originally posted by selfless
Who in their right mind would think this is a contrail?...

Every aviation and meteorological expert in the world?

It's only those who don't know much about these subjects who draw false conclusions based on understandable ignorance.

ok i am getting really p #£$%&^ off !!!!!


we get into the subject of discussion then posts get lost in the sea of BS !!!!
do you guys really have to keep argueing ...YOU ARE DOING NOBODY A FAVOUR INCLUDING YOUR OWN ARGUEMENT !!!!

do you not realise that when people look through a topic and they find everytime that it has desended into a childish attack at each other ....they lose interest!!!

v v sad.

so in the interests of the actual topic here is my post again !!!!::
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


excellent previous post `on the deck`

my sentiments exactly, i work in the aviation industry and all to well understand the process of contrail formation, however every time i have tried to present my evidence of non normal contrails i was ridiculed...it is a shame people are far too willing to debunk without looking at something other than photos,
for example there are lots of images taken from sat images and weather radar that shows loads of huge long lasting trails that were not showing up there before.

examples can be seen here:

www.flickr.com...

snoopyuk

[edit on 25-10-2006 by snoopyuk]

Originally posted by snoopyuk
ok i am getting really p #£$%&^ off !!!!!

Take a chill pill or you'll blow a gasket....

So tell me, you talk of "abnormal" contrails...just what is the difference between a normal and "abnormal" contrail?

You say you work in the aviation industry. Doing what?

Just curious as to what your area of expertise is.

Originally posted by snoopyuk

for example there are lots of images taken from sat images and weather radar that shows loads of huge long lasting trails that were not showing up there before.

What do you mean 'not showing up there before'?

Meteorologists who study such images every single day haven't noticed them suddenly appear, and indeed use such images themselves simply to show the public what an impact commerical air travel is having on the planet.

The only change is that every year there are more and more persistent contrails being formed because of the vast annual increases in air traffic. 10 years ago a trip from the UK to New York was a once in a lifetime experience. Today it's a routine monthly shopping trip ...

Originally posted by snoopyuk

we get into the subject of discussion then posts get lost in the sea of BS !!!!
do you guys really have to keep argueing ...YOU ARE DOING NOBODY A FAVOUR IN

I agree, this is why i put him on ignore.

www.nexusmagazine.com...




About the Author:

William Thomas specialises in health and environment issues. His award-winning writing has appeared in more than 50 publications in eight countries. His editorial commentaries have been published in The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Vancouver Sun and Times-Colonist newspapers as well as Earth Island Journal and Ecodecision magazines. He has also appeared on CBC radio and TV, CNN and New Zealand national television. His articles, "Poison from the Sky: the 'Chemtrails' Crisis" and "Probing the 'Chemtrails' Conundrum", were published in NEXUS 6/03 and 7/02 respectively. He can be contacted by email at willthomas@ telus.net, or via his Lifeboat News website, www.lifeboatnews.com.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Well FINALLY!!!! Something we can discuss!

Great find. But let’s take a look briefly at what this is. It's a "dispersal test" supposedly done many years ago to test the feasibility of using aircraft to spray biological contaminants on our enemies, not biological tests done on our populace.

Weeeell..for a start, the description "dispersal test" is a mid-nineties PC term used by the National Academy of Sciences Sub-Committee. The tests were, as you rightly say, Biological Warfare experiments conducted to investigate the feasibility of 'Off-Target' BW attacks.

I agree that the military scientists didn't use the human populace as test subjects, but that wasn't for any altruistic purpose, it was because to do so would have broken the Nurenburg Code. That is why they used instead mechanical substitutes , in order to estimate the inhaled dosages of each experiment. These devices included Drum Impactors, Roto-rods, and Millipore Filters.

The compounds tested were used because they were thought to be harmless, and for the most part they were. It's not something that our government would do these days.

Really? You can provide me with proof that the scientists involved in these trials thought that they were harmless?

Even in the 1950s and 1960s, it was well known that Cadmium and its compounds were toxic. Even Porton Down, who carried out over 100 large-scale Zinc Cadmium sulphide field trials during 1953-64, admit that it was known to have been toxic. Scientists involved in handling the compound wore full protective equipment, including respirators.

And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the UK Government have definitely not ruled out conducting this type of experiment again. In 1999, the UK Defence Minister Lord Gilbert, stated that

" In the event of a military question arising which could only be answered by conducting open air trials in areas which may involve the general public, Ministers have made it clear that they cannot rule out the need to conduct larger scale trials in the future"

This position was recently confirmed to me by a FOIA reply from the UK's CBW research centre, Dstl Porton Down.

As you might already know, the UK, US and Canada collaborate on BW research through the Tripartite Agreement on Toxicological Warfare. Hence, if the UK don't rule out conducting this type of research in the future, then its highly likely that the US and Canada won't either.

When Roosevelt started all this, it also wasn't illegal. It is now, and for good reason.

Thats interesting. Can you inform me which law states that this type of experiment is now illegal?

While this is a great find and has some very interesting information that I will defiantly study more, it still doesn't prove the existence of "chemtrails" today. Just that someone thought to test a delivery system a long time ago. The Germans, Brits, and Russians tested stuff like this as well, but as it just wasn't feasible, nobody ever used it in this form.

Sorry AR, but you couldn't be more wrong. This type of BW concept was one of the Cold War's biggest secrets. It is totally feasible - its called the Large Area Coverage (LAC) concept and was proved time and time again. It has been accepted as a practical method of BW attack for over 30 years.

In the UK alone, research associated with this concept resulted in the conduct of over 320 public area experiments between 1949-1975.

Sure would like to see some actual government docs related to this. I wonder if they actually exist.

Yep, they exist all right. They've been available to the public for quite a while.
I'll dig out some titles and post them so you can make a FOIA request for copies.

And you're right, it is an interesting subject.



zero lift

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by selfless
Who in their right mind would think this is a contrail?...

Why not?

please be specific.

Why can't that be a contrail?

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

Selfless.

Why don't you try answering them?

Ohhhh.... let me.. let me....

Ill bite...

Would it be because there are 6 contrails coming from a 4 engine craft?

and didn't someone mention that it is a prop plane?

[edit on 26-10-2006 by LazarusTheLong]