ChemTrails for defense against space based Scalar Weapons

It was a clear day with out a cloud in the sky. Same pattern for three days in a row.

I thought you said some of the aircraft left persistent contrails which spread out to cover the sky?

As I clearly stated earlier, REGULAR flights out of PDX left a contrail which dissipated with in 30 seconds, while UNMARKED jest I've PERSONALLY seen, left a trail which hung in the sky for hours,

See, I was right. So it wasn't a cloudless blue sky.

and upon descending on the city, both my wife and I began experiencing symptoms.

So you're saying something was sprayed in the upper atmosphere. It stayed in place for 5 hours (despite strong winds at that altitude) and then suddenly settled directly down on the city. Presumably by this you mean the hazy cirrostratus cleared and a blue sky returned?

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Essan]

Oh iskander, tell us what doctors think there is some massive increase in respiratory ailments when plane fly over miles high?

Do you actually think it anything was "sprayed" 6 miles over a city, that it would come down anywhere near it?

I remember when "chemtrails" was first some internet conspiracy, it was about "low level" contrails that were a few hundred or thousand feet over cities. There was never any evidence to support any of those claims, no photo or anything. Just people with absolutely no depth perception.

Then they moved onto "persistent" trails, which again they have no evidence for, yet make more superhuman claims of being able to tell from many miles away that an aircraft is devoid of any markings, and even claiming spectroscopic visual abilities and being able to tell a high level cirrus cloud is not actually made of ice crystals, but some other nefarious chemical. Maybe its made of dihydrogen monoxide.

I have seen clouds made of nitric acid though, I should send them to a chemmie and watch them go wild, however it was a completely natural cloud.

Let's see, we have clear evidence that governments have exposed their own citizens to toxic material on purpose


www.kfor.com...

Among the hundreds and hundreds of tests that the army did, Stillwater, Oklahoma was targeted," said Cole, an expert on the Army's development of biological weapons. In some cities reports indicate Americans actually died because of the testing.

Government records show florescent particles of zinc cadmium sulfide were released in Stillwater in 1962.

"Cadmium itself is known to be one of the most highly toxic materials in small amounts that a human can be exposed to," Cole said

so, it seems as if they existed a few decades ago, why not now?

additional links:

www.apfn.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.carnicom.com...


so, what's suddenly so loony about chemtrails?

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Long Lance]

Actually, a serious question for iskander:-

Did you think you were seeing chemtrails being sprayed striaght away? Or was it only after you and your wife felt ill that you began to suspect that's what you'd seen?

Originally posted by Long Lance

so, it seems as if they existed a few decades ago, why not now?

additional link: www.carnicom.com...

But the question is: did these chemicals form sheets of cloud that hung around in the sky for hours?

I bet they didn't.

it depends on particle size (if there are any) and metereological conditions, of course, nano particles for example are known to drift off into nirvana unless their container is firmly sealed. these would not be visible, but condensation around them is another matter entirely.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Well since neither chemtrails, nor scalar weapons exist in reality, it is a silly theory.

You are like the guy in terror storm. (lightly based on conversation)
reporter:"sir did you know about the cameras?"
dude: "no, what cameras?"
reporter: "those up there watching you, there are millions"
dude: "nah dont believe it"
(Just a minute he didnt know they exist and now he denies without even walking down the street to see if there are more.)

I watched one morning, in Atlanta, in the morning, when the sky was clear (actually a few mornings), and throughout the day I watched as each cloud that came out of the back of the plane formed EVERY cloud that was in the sky.

Open your eyes. Call it what you want if your brain blocks out chemtrail, fine.
I dont give a darn what is in it...the point you need to concern yourself with is your clouds are made from these airplanes.

Dont believe it go look up ariel photos with lines going across states...
Dont believe it, look up companies that do cloud seeding...the internet is still here, look it up, Im tired of posting links...if anything go outside and watch...Atlanta is guaranteed to be a good place, but heck, here in nowhere Hungary, same thing happens.

NOw that we know they make most of the clouds, what is its purpose.
If none...then imagine life without airplanes...no clouds, no rain?
Maybe planes have been around longer than you think.

Think of the old art from 100s of years ago that have "u.f.o." in planes making clouds.
Dude ancient advanced civilizations exist, and most people cant see past the nose on their face.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by dAlen

I watched one morning, in Atlanta, in the morning, when the sky was clear (actually a few mornings), and throughout the day I watched as each cloud that came out of the back of the plane formed EVERY cloud that was in the sky.

Only high level cirrus clouds.

NOw that we know they make most of the clouds, what is its purpose.
If none...then imagine life without airplanes...no clouds, no rain?

A slight reduction in global warming is all. Most clouds are not formed from contrails.



[edit on 19-10-2006 by Essan]

Originally posted by Essan
A slight reduction in global warming is all. Most clouds are not formed from contrails.
[edit on 19-10-2006 by Essan]

I must be the lucky one...the two places I have been on the occasions I saw heavy "trailing" of con/chem (doesnt matter to me) I watched how they dissapated, how they merged, formed, etc.
It was totally amazing.

I was just at the national park here in Hungary where I live on a bridge in the plains.
It has been clear skies for the past week or so, and I watched the planes today (with family) and we watched as cloud formations took place from what came out.

No biggy, its interesting to say the least...fun out in nature on the nice planes to watch anyway.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by dAlen
I watched one morning, in Atlanta, in the morning, when the sky was clear (actually a few mornings), and throughout the day I watched as each cloud that came out of the back of the plane formed EVERY cloud that was in the sky.

How do you know that the clouds would not have formed even without contrails?

Originally posted by HowardRoark

How do you know that the clouds would not have formed even without contrails?



Well, basically heres probably a clearer explanation of what happened.
From when the sky was crystal clear to sitting and watching the sky...planes go by...specifically watching what happened to what came out from the back of the planes, and then observing the sky for additional formations apart from the planes (which in my observation did not occur apart from when watching contrails/chem, whatever, appear.)

So from my example it took just patience and relaxation, and watching from a clear sky.
When I lived in Atlanta on the occasions I tried it (there it formed a lot faster as more planes going by, airport, military, etc.) so didnt have to wait long...now not to say natrual ones never formed later...could be. But it was impressive to see a clear sky go to a fully cloudy sky...
Here in the plains its different. I go to bed with clear sky, see one plane at night with a long trail, wake up and its fully overcast. (not blaming it on one plane or planes...it can totally be natural)
But after the morning recently, it clears up to a crystal clear sky (thank God I can see the Sun, its getting colder), but then go down to the historical bridge...hang out and watch the planes. (these planes do resemble the cloud seeders that actually advertise there business online...but who knows) and the same thing happens. Difference between here and Atlanta, as you watch the trails linger and stay and change shapes, the shapes are more graceful quicker. Could have something to do with that its not as many planes and mixes of chemicals in the air from traffic, etc.)

But thats it. AGain, this is just my experience. I really could care less about the chem or con part..I just find it fascinating that I have seen such a creation in the sky...(not about panic at all)
It could raise speculation...about what is happening, but all is good either way.

I am reminded of one painting where there are planes in the sky (from 100s of years ago), which leads to other debates besides chem or con trail...but UFOS, Christ ascension, etc.
Not the right forum for that, so I wont even go there.

Thanks for asking, hope that clarifies my experience.
The point was during my observation no other clouds were forming or coming from other directions.
I will say that it probably is not always this way, dont know...thought about using a video camera to tape it...(Be a bit boring to post and watch for even 15 minutes...better in real life. Again, if you dont notice stuff like this, then it may be a waste of your time, but if you notice something, then start watching to see consistency, long lenghts, and days that are clear that get cloudy...then sit back on one clear morning and watch. At the time in Atlanta it was almost any morning you could do.

Have fun relaxing either way.

Peace

DAlen

I thought you said some of the aircraft left persistent contrails which spread out to cover the sky?

I see that some are set to keep juggling thing around.

No Essan, it was a perfectly clear day, PRIOR to "persistent contrails" laid down by unmarked aircraft.

See, I was right. So it wasn't a cloudless blue sky.

No Essan, you are wrong. If take the time to read my posts please.

So you're saying something was sprayed in the upper atmosphere. It stayed in place for 5 hours (despite strong winds at that altitude) and then suddenly settled directly down on the city. Presumably by this you mean the hazy cirrostratus cleared and a blue sky returned?

Are you in a sound mind?

Sure Essan, something floated in the air, then Martians showed up and abducted me to Vegas.

Can you read?

The cover did not stay in place for 5 hours, but dispersed into a blanket which covered the city. GRADUALLY.

And you know where you can stuff that "Presumably". As I stated earlier, I witness the even personally and over a couple of days, so if you care to question my integrity, do it through U2U.

Oh iskander, tell us what doctors think there is some massive increase in respiratory ailments when plane fly over miles high?

None. No doctor will also state the increase in mentally disturbed patients claiming they've seen UFOs right after a 4th of July party.

firepilot, before being cynical, make the effort and look into things first, and until you put in the effort, you're just another heckler.

Do you actually think it anything was "sprayed" 6 miles over a city, that it would come down anywhere near it?

What comes up must go down, and if enough of it is dumped, I'm sure you'll agree that even with various wind currents, it will eventually succumb to the laws of gravity.

I remember when "chemtrails" was first some internet conspiracy, it was about "low level" contrails that were a few hundred or thousand feet over cities. There was never any evidence to support any of those claims, no photo or anything. Just people with absolutely no depth perception.

firepilot, I see. You are the lazy type of skeptic, the type that wishes to be entertained with facts that other people muster up. Your type of skeptics say "Not true, give me facts, feed me, feed me, mhoaaaa!!!!"

Sorry, I wont be "working" for you, put in your own time.

Then they moved onto "persistent" trails, which again they have no evidence for,

Who are they? All other type of bored "theorists"? I'm well aware you your mutual dynamic. The "theorists" continuously come up with utter nonsense to entertain them selves, and then in turn the "lazy skeptics" entertain them selves by constantly shoving stick in EVERYBODY wheel.

firepilot, I've been there, done that, put in some WORK, and then maybe we'll talk.

Actually, a serious question for iskander:-

Did you think you were seeing chemtrails being sprayed striaght away? Or was it only after you and your wife felt ill that you began to suspect that's what you'd seen?

Good question Essan.

I don't like jumping to conclusions, but I also never rule out what is not "popular belief".

No, my wife and I noticed the pattern of emerging contrails first. Among other things, both of us worked with all kinds of pattern recognition problems, and just by laying out in the sun we both noticed the method behind such cover.

Time intervals between grid overlap absolutely could not have been accidental. So we started throwing ideas around just to get over it.

As always, the more possibilities are ruled out, the clearer the questions became.

Contrast between +/- 30 second contrail dissipation from jets coming to and from PDX, verses persistent cover emerging from jets that are holding to a flight pattern which was not directional.

That's when the telescope came out. Ruined my lunch.

As I repeatedly stated earlier, initially the day was absolutely clear, yet by 5PM the sky became enveloped in a thick haze, which became thicker towards sunset, and had a very distinct color separation.

Such typical sunset color separation (saturated) is not at all uncommon in LA, but happens after very heavy air pollution.

That we are used to, and typical pollution haze hangs at very low altitude, while what we saw in Portland DESCENDED on the city.

The first symptoms began occurring closer to 6pm, and felt like throat, bronchial and sinus irritation, followed by a deep headache. Exactly the same as headaches from toxic fumes.

The pattern was the same, morning with clear skies, persisting contrails covering the sky in square grids by noon, more by about 8pm, the night is covered in thick clouds which dissipate by morning, and the cycle repeats the next day.

By the third day Portland experienced the strongest wind storm in years.

But the question is: did these chemicals form sheets of cloud that hung around in the sky for hours?

I bet they didn't.

How do you know? You don't, but hey, it's always fun to deny things, it sure is as hell a lot easier then proving something, isn't it?

Hey, how easy is it to say, "Nope, don't believe it", rather then actually USING your brain and being constructive.

To each their own.

I too question everything, but I also do the work, and make up my own mind.

This is the kind of constructive effort I'm talking about;

it depends on particle size (if there are any) and metereological conditions, of course, nano particles for example are known to drift off into nirvana unless their container is firmly sealed. these would not be visible, but condensation around them is another matter entirely.

Long Lance is on the right track.

dAlen described exactly what my wife and I saw for three days in a row in Portland.

I have a really good memory, and as a kid I always watched the sky, the clouds, and especially the jets and their contrails. Now take this into account, unless I went senile all the sudden, the contrails I saw in Portland seem completely unusual to me, and actually caught my attention to the point of irritation.

How many people here would be intrigued by a kids tricycle to the point of irritation for example?

Can anybody honestly say that they would think something like this; "Wow, what an unusually tricycle, I can not quite identify what it actually is, it looks like a tricycle, but it's not, what is it?"

I simply could not recall a single memory of contrails like I saw in Portland, and I went on a trip down memory lane all the way back to my childhood.

Nothing. What I saw in Portland I have not seem before, it's as simple as that. What it is, I don't know, but I do know that it's not normal or natural.

Seriously, remember your selves when you were kids, what are the possibilities of you not remembering a GIANT grid of squares in the sky?

You name it, tic-tac-toe, chess, checkers, and all other grid games imaginable would have been played by kids in the sky, and if such contrails existed even 20 years ago, such "sky squares" games would have already been a part of our daily existence, like Monopoly and Mr. Potato head, yet they are not.

It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that such persistent contrails are a new phenomena, but what they actually are is yet to be found.

Read this post

www.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW, no one has explained how to tell if two planes are at the same altitude just by looking at them.

Originally posted by Jaypeth
could the metalic substances found in chem trails

?
What metals are in chemtrails, who demonstrated this, when and how?

Firepilot, HowardRoake...IThanks to both of you...you both have my last 2 way aboves for the month...this has got to be the oldest and silliest argument. Firepilot, thanks for your spot on explanation regarding temp and existing weather conditions...100%
I do find the flaming of fellow members on this board revealing...if you dont agree with someone well your an idiot, and if you offer common sense explanations...well people just heap more and more implausible and incomprehensible stories on top of what they have already posted.
You know the old addage...simpleast is best...it is...when trying to explain or understand a new, unfamiliar concept...it's best to stick with fundamentals!!

BTW, no one has explained how to tell if two planes are at the same altitude just by looking at them.

I did.

I do find the flaming of fellow members on this board revealing...if you dont agree with someone well your an idiot, and if you offer common sense explanations...well people just heap more and more implausible and incomprehensible stories on top of what they have already posted.

Indeed, but please point out what motivated you to say it in regards to this particular thread.

You know the old addage...simpleast is best...it is...when trying to explain or understand a new, unfamiliar concept...it's best to stick with fundamentals!!

True, so who here seen such perfect square grids of ever lingering contrails, let's say a decade ago?

Anybody?

Let me put it this way, when It'll snow in LA in the middle of August, there will be people saying that it's impossible, and when they them selves get buried under it, they'll just keep saying that there's nothing strange about it what so ever, and that it happened before some time.

Some are just incapable of coping with what they can not accept. Kind of like a mother that never aspects a death of her child.

I know what I saw, and It was not a natural phenomena.

If some want to question other peoples intent ("implausible and incomprehensible stories") instead of doing their own research, well, I've seen enough of such characters, and they are the ones that drop out early and never move on beyond that point.

Later.

The only way to really settle this would be to get detailed meteorological and air control records for the Portland area for the days concerned.

There is no doubt in my mind that what you experienced can be explained meteorologically. But I can't prove that that was the case in this instance.

But I can't prove that that was the case in this instance.

Naturally. Here's an idea though, try finding a typical "chemtrail" type photograph, dated prior to 1995.

Literally millions of photos are out there, so it must pretty easy to find one with similar "persistent" type of contrails, both in linear and square patterns.

It'll be good enough for me.

Let's shoot for let's say 80s and 70s to be sure, and then we can compare them to all kinds of picts from "chemtrail" websites.

Does that sound reasonable to you? You know, the whole "picture tells a thousand words" thing.

Maybe then we can plot a time lime with reported chemtrail sightings and solar flare activity. Who knows, maybe will come up with something.

If that's not going to happen, then I hope you can point me to a right source for sun flare activity, power outages, and IT systems data corruption which result in catastrophic error cascade.

You know, the whole ECC error correction thing, how cellular networks collapse during high solar flares, how sat comm data streams get corrupted, stuff like that.

I also remember that USAF used carbon fiber bombs do destroy Serbian power grids. It's that non conductive, static charge (arc) type short circuiting method.

I also heard that very fine carbon fiber strands can be mixed with a chemical binder in order to form a super fine aerosol web, which is actually able to absorb a wide range of EM and RF frequencies and can hang in the air for hours.

I wonder if that crap actually glows in the dark when it gets highly charged, kind of like an aurora but more on the purplish/magenta side.

I'm not really sure, but I think such a concept could have been though of back in WWII in order to mask Navy vessels from enemy radars.

You know, kind of like B-17s that were dumping massive amounts of aluminum foil to spoof German radars, and this is kind of like an aerosol cloud for similar purposes.

Now here's a fun school science project.

I wonder what will happen if a ton or two of such a mix gets dumped in the atmosphere in a dense cloud right over an installation like HAARP for example. Even with 1w per square centimeter, I wonder what would happen to the massive static charge on all those countless micro carbon fibers?

Yeah I know, Tesla was a crazy scientist and all, but there was a Navy installation in Hawaii during 60s, from which a foot wide pure copper lead went right into the ocean, while on the ground it was connected to a transmitter the size of an entire building.

I guess it graduated to HAARP, but still all those carbon fibers are a bit puzzling....

Originally posted by HowardRoark
BTW, no one has explained how to tell if two planes are at the same altitude just by looking at them.

Originally posted by iskander
I did.

No, what you said was this:

Originally posted by iskander
Proportional ranging through the use of digital camera resolution as a base line. Pixel per pixel.

To which I responded with:

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Proportional ranging. Is that where you compare the apparent size of two objects to determine how far away they are?

So, according to that theory, the plane that appears to be smaller in this photo is farther away from the camera than the plane that appears to be bigger, is that right?

www.airliners.net...

Which you have still not responded to.


Let me put it in terms even a simpleton can understand.

How can you determine the relative distance of two objects at that distance if the two objects are different sizes?

Just for your consideration: the growth in air traffic over the past couple of decades



Couple that with the fact that for the past ten years or so most planes are flying with newer, high bypass engines which are much more likely to produce contrails



And voila! Instant internet psychosis.