North Korea says talks or "a nuclear missile"

Originally posted by jsobecky
The man is a liar and does not hold to his agreements.

He has already screwed us in one-on-one talks as I have pointed out, under Clinton.

He has already screwed us in 6-way talks, under Bush.

He never intends to stick to his agreements; he only uses them to buy time.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by jsobecky]

Need I remind you that the exact same thing can be said about the US(and probably every nation under the sun) to many nations around the world? Once again, don't suscribe a trait to someone else as evil if you have the same trait - it is obvious, silly and too many innocent people have died from that mistake already.

I agree it is strange that Kinnie wants to talk to the US alone. Maybe as one poster said it is because of he backs out of a singly US plan they only have the US to worry about? But that would mean that they consider China, et el more of a threat than the US - which means you should leave it to them to deal with it.

Or, maybe it is because NK is acting as a proxy for China to test the US willingness on this matter - in which case the US should leave it to China again.

Seeing a pattern here?

Lets face it here - NK is not a threat to anyone other than it's citizenry and it's neighbours. One of it's neighbours is the regional superpower, and has more than the ability to smackdown Kimmie, also, they will be the ones to take the repercussions of such actions. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to just leave it to them seeing as they will be the ones that have to deal with it eventually anyone?

Originally posted by JEREK
I disagree with people who are saying this is a regional problem and we should let China handle it. Yes the imidiate threat is to those countries in close proximity to N.K. but they could sell there technology( if they in fact have it ) to any paying terroist. They are so isolated they could do it undetected. The long term threat is real to the U.S. and should dealt with harsh and swift action.
I apologize if this sounds like a Goerge Bush press conferance.

No need to apologize. I think many would agree with you on the surface. However, ever since the collapse of the USSR there has been Nukes on the black market open for anyone that has the cash. Also, with India and Pakistan there is considerable evidense that they too have sold the technology to anyone with a buck. So I am afraid that, IMO, any concern over Nukes possibly getting into the "terrorists" hands is already too little, too late.

Originally posted by Sanctum1972
Even though I think the US should just let China, SK and Japan deal with NK because this is a regional issue for them.

The problem is, there is no such thing as a regional conflict when it comes to nukes. It affects the entire world.

And if it all comes down to the point where NK won't talk and continue with their weapons testing, then I think a joint military effort to remove manufacturing plants that produces conventional military vehicles and weapons and including nuclear should be considered to avoid any loss of civilian life and away from the main population---unless NK gets the idea and pulls a "Saddam Hussein" using human shields.

This is the best idea yet. Take out his nuclear facilities, and then work toward regime change. Remember that Kim wouldn't be in his position of power if not for his father. He does not have the support of the people, and the military supports him only because he feeds them.

The problem, of course, is getting buy-in for a joint venture from China. Japan would willingly agree, imo. SK, probably, but they are minor players anyway.

So here's the interesting thing to note...Why did'nt the Pentagon THINK of using the forces in Afghanistan to hit NK?

Because the immediate task was to punish al Qaeda for 9/11.

The only problem is Pakistan or China won't let us go over their 'air space' to get to NK.

Why do we need Pakistan or China? What's wrong with taking off from Japan?

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Need I remind you that the exact same thing can be said about the US(and probably every nation under the sun) to many nations around the world? Once again, don't suscribe a trait to someone else as evil if you have the same trait - it is obvious, silly and too many innocent people have died from that mistake already.

Here we go with the same tired old rhetoric. Not even worth a response. Go kiss Kim's a$$ if you're so holier-than-thou.

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Lets face it here - NK is not a threat to anyone other than it's citizenry and it's neighbours. One of it's neighbours is the regional superpower, and has more than the ability to smackdown Kimmie, also, they will be the ones to take the repercussions of such actions. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to just leave it to them seeing as they will be the ones that have to deal with it eventually anyone?

Doctor to patient: "Don't worry about that little black spot on your lung X-Ray. It's only a local problem. Keep taking your vitamins and we'll see you at next year's checkup".

Yeah, right.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Here we go with the same tired old rhetoric. Not even worth a response. Go kiss Kim's a$$ if you're so holier-than-thou.

How can you possibly equate this to him kissing Kim's a$$? That's ridiculous at best, and irresponsible at worst. Simply because someone would rather use any other means than military might to solve an issue means brown-nosing?

He's right in a way, let's call a spade a spade, you've done bad, we've done bad, now lets all sit down and talk about how we can turn it to good, is more like it.

Something you may have to face, jsobecky, is that with all it's military might, there are clearly somethings, that even the US simply cannot do...only time will tell

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Need I remind you that the exact same thing can be said about the US(and probably every nation under the sun) to many nations around the world? Once again, don't suscribe a trait to someone else as evil if you have the same trait - it is obvious, silly and too many innocent people have died from that mistake already.

Here we go with the same tired old rhetoric. Not even worth a response. Go kiss Kim's a$$ if you're so holier-than-thou.

Not rhetoric - truth. I understand you have a hard time with the concept so let me break it down for you. What NK did was regional - the answer is regional. The US, under this admin, has shown themselfs to be incompetent and useless in every meaningful way and with the help of trolls like yourself(You started this name calling crap, so eat it bub) spreading a bunch of your half-truths, lies and FUD(The only weapons of the truly incompetent).

However in good old fashioned neocon doublespeak the "not worth a response" was given in a response...

It would be funny if I didn't think you may be endictive of other fearfull people.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Lets face it here - NK is not a threat to anyone other than it's citizenry and it's neighbours. One of it's neighbours is the regional superpower, and has more than the ability to smackdown Kimmie, also, they will be the ones to take the repercussions of such actions. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to just leave it to them seeing as they will be the ones that have to deal with it eventually anyone?

Doctor to patient: "Don't worry about that little black spot on your lung X-Ray. It's only a local problem. Keep taking your vitamins and we'll see you at next year's checkup".

Yeah, right.

Yepper smartypants.. You are aware that everyone has the genes can can potentially cause cancer right? So lets kill everyone because...errr...they might possibly someday cost the medicare system something? LMAO you are making increasing illogical statements. Really maybe if you just admitted you were frieghtened of the world?

Here is another one - seeing as everyone has the possiblity of doing terrible things, we must therefore all be terrorists.... Gitmo for everyone!

Are you starting to see the silliness in your pre-emptive concept? Besides, using that logic, and using the precident set by the US already, is it not at least conceivable that some rogue nation you have never even thought of yet(Maybe Iceland? lol) will decide you are too much of a threat and put suitcase nukes in your sitys and then, because you know, you may at some point in time in the future attack them, they should hit you first? Stupid....

You can't hit someone for something they might possibly do - people who suggest this seem to forget that it is innocent until proven guilty - that a crime must be committed before you can be held accountable for a crime. Sheesh, it is no wonder the US consitution is in such bad shape.



[edit on 11-10-2006 by Waiting2awake]

Originally posted by Waiting2awake

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Need I remind you that the exact same thing can be said about the US(and probably every nation under the sun) to many nations around the world? Once again, don't suscribe a trait to someone else as evil if you have the same trait - it is obvious, silly and too many innocent people have died from that mistake already.

Here we go with the same tired old rhetoric. Not even worth a response. Go kiss Kim's a$$ if you're so holier-than-thou.

Not rhetoric - truth. I understand you have a hard time with the concept so let me break it down for you. What NK did was regional - the answer is regional. The US, under this admin, has shown themselfs to be incompetent and useless in every meaningful way and with the help of trolls like yourself(You started this name calling crap, so eat it bub) spreading a bunch of your half-truths, lies and FUD(The only weapons of the truly incompetent).

However in good old fashioned neocon doublespeak the "not worth a response" was given in a response...

It would be funny if I didn't think you may be endictive of other fearfull people.

If it is just a regional problem why have we intercepted ships containing N.K. missles shipping to middle eastern countries?

Ballistic missle intercept

Kim is crazy enough to destablize the world more by selling nuclear weapons and technology to our enemies. These enemies have already vowed to eliminate western civilization to herald in a wonderful era of Islamic tyranny.

I do believe the neighbors need to have a serious go at N.K. first. After the way that the world has treated the USA they would have to plead for another drop of assistance. But at the same time the USA has to look after her own interests and safety and prevent the transfer of technology or weapons to those that wish to hurt the USA.

Originally posted by on_yur_6

If it is just a regional problem why have we intercepted ships containing N.K. missles shipping to middle eastern countries?

Ballistic missle intercept

Kim is crazy enough to destablize the world more by selling nuclear weapons and technology to our enemies. These enemies have already vowed to eliminate western civilization to herald in a wonderful era of Islamic tyranny.

I do believe the neighbors need to have a serious go at N.K. first. After the way that the world has treated the USA they would have to plead for another drop of assistance. But at the same time the USA has to look after her own interests and safety and prevent the transfer of technology or weapons to those that wish to hurt the USA.

Don't you mean "may possibly hurt" the US? And doesn't that ignore the huge amount of estimated nukes already on the black market? Also, doesn't your direction lead to more enemies of the states and give more reasons for your "enemies"?

Aren't you feeding the very thing you are worried about? As for whether there were shipments ofcourse, there are always shipments. How do you suppose anything gets anywhere? Besides, merely shipping weapons is not proof of wrong doing - if it was then isn't the US and Isreal the largest weapons exporters?

Seriously think about it. The US in it's illicit and illegal wars have, if not actually create the problem you are worried about, then certainly escalated it to the point where it is now. So why in G-d's name would you think that a continuation of the same flawed reactionary policies would you think it would solve it?


**Edited to clarify the arms thing, and to clean up the quotes.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Waiting2awake]

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Waiting2awake]

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Yepper smartypants.. You are aware that everyone has the genes can can potentially cause cancer right? So lets kill everyone because...errr...they might possibly someday cost the medicare system something? LMAO you are making increasing illogical statements. Really maybe if you just admitted you were frieghtened of the world?

I realize that your idea of fair "fighting" is 30 raucous people chasing one un-armed man down the street. That's fair and just to you, and you'll defend that to the death. But it's really the mark of a coward.

And there's a major difference between everyone carrying a gene, to the gene mutating and metastasizing to malignancy. But it's better to wait to treat it until it spreads, right? Even after it's been identified as cancerous, right?

Don't enter the medical field, kid. Stick with washing cars.

You can't hit someone for something they might possibly do - people who suggest this seem to forget that it is innocent until proven guilty - that a crime must be committed before you can be held accountable for a crime. Sheesh, it is no wonder the US consitution is in such bad shape.

He's broken treaties we've signed with him. He's launched missiles towards us. He's threatened us. He's allegedly set off a nuclear explosion, even though the rest of the world asked him not to.

Nah, let's just wait till he lights up one of our cities.

Edit: Typos

[edit on 11-10-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by on_yur_6
If it is just a regional problem why have we intercepted ships containing N.K. missles shipping to middle eastern countries?

Ballistic missle intercept

Kim is crazy enough to destablize the world more by selling nuclear weapons and technology to our enemies. These enemies have already vowed to eliminate western civilization to herald in a wonderful era of Islamic tyranny.

I agree. As I said before, there is no such thing as a "regional problem" when it comes to nukes. Believing it is only regional is naive.

I do believe the neighbors need to have a serious go at N.K. first. After the way that the world has treated the USA they would have to plead for another drop of assistance. But at the same time the USA has to look after her own interests and safety and prevent the transfer of technology or weapons to those that wish to hurt the USA.

Yes, NK's neighbors should be putting the most pressure on NK at this point, because they would suffer the "refugee problem" if things get any worse. But as you so correctly point out, the US must look out for her own interests.

Nations don't have friends. They have interests.

JSOBECKY,

Arrhhmmmm - I box. That is I walk into a ring with one other fellow and he and I proceed to hit each other. Coward is something that I can not be called(Although there are certainly a lot of other names, and insults for me - but I know your too obtuse to figure it out). I don't, nor have I ever agreed, that 30 on 1 is fair - I merely understand that if you hit someone you bloody well better be prepared to be hit back. If you are in the public office, then you are accountable to the public. What happened in Bushes case(another thread where you were hoplessly out of touch with reality) was a direct result of him being an idiot in public office, and instead of addressing the protestors he refused to and then blew them a kiss which - judging by the hissy fit you threw on NiteBoy(I think?) about shortening your name to Becky would be reasonable reaction. Or is this just merely another example of your double-speak, double-standard?

"Light up our city"?? LMAO!! PLEASE!! FUD, unadultered FUD. You have got to be the most frieghtened child on the net. Stop letting them use your fear against you, and if you aren't then I emplore you to stop using fear on others who may actually think you are serious.

If someone decides to "light up your city", as you call it, then how do you know they came from Korea? Why not the USSR? Answer that please...

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
JSOBECKY,

Arrhhmmmm - I box. That is I walk into a ring with one other fellow and he and I proceed to hit each other. Coward is something that I can not be called(Although there are certainly a lot of other names, and insults for me - but I know your too obtuse to figure it out). I don't, nor have I ever agreed, that 30 on 1 is fair

You can stop it right there. Don't make me go to the other thread and pull the crap up that you said. "Fraidy cat", Remember that?

Kid, you're a classic example of a coward. You're fine when you're surrounded by other bullies, but you can't stand on your own.

If someone decides to "light up your city", as you call it, then how do you know they came from Korea? Why not the USSR? Answer that please...

What kind of pointless question is that?

Kim has already backed out on several agreements. He's launched missiles at us. Yet you want to mollycoddle him. Go ahead. Live in your little fantasy world. The adults will let you know when they've fixed the problem.

PS: Uh, kid, there is no "USSR" anymore. You'll learn that when you get into high school.

Edit: Typos


[edit on 11-10-2006 by jsobecky]

Enough....The juvenile insults and baiting STOPS here.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
JSOBECKY,

Arrhhmmmm - I box. That is I walk into a ring with one other fellow and he and I proceed to hit each other. Coward is something that I can not be called(Although there are certainly a lot of other names, and insults for me - but I know your too obtuse to figure it out). I don't, nor have I ever agreed, that 30 on 1 is fair

You can stop it right there. Don't make me go to the other thread and pull the crap up that you said. "Fraidy cat", Remember that?

Kid, you're a classic example of a coward. You're fine when you're surrounded by other bullies, but you can't stand on your own.

If someone decides to "light up your city", as you call it, then how do you know they came from Korea? Why not the USSR? Answer that please...

What kind of pointless question is that?



Kim has already backed out on several agreements. He's launched missiles at us. Yet you want to mollycoddle him. Go ahead. Live in your little fantasy world. The adults will let you know when they've fixed the problem.

PS: Uh, kid, there is no "USSR" anymore. You'll learn that when you get into high school.

Edit: Typos


[edit on 11-10-2006 by jsobecky]

Ahh your funny. Finished high school and such. I remember the fready cat thing - I also remember how applicable it is. Once again it is the Truth. When a grown man runs from people asking to talk to him - buddy there is one word for it.

As for me being a coward. Cool, whatever. LOL!! Surrounded by friends? What part of "walking into a ring awith one other person" don't you freaking get?

Also, I know there is no USSR (I actually played hockey against some Soviet players when they came here on good will Tourneys back in the mid 80's) - however that ignores(Why am I not surprized you ignored it?) that they had Nukes that are unaccounted for today. THat means that anyone that wants Nukes, can probably get nukes without using Korea - that is, just so you "get it" - your "preceived" fear of NK is completely and utterly irrational.

Mush like your posts have been.

Now, if I may summerize for you...

My position is that the west/UN paws this off to China. The rational for this is that China is the one that this most effects, and China has the ability to stop it. If it isn't handled right, they will also be the ones to pay the price of refugees and maybe counter attacks. Either way, it seems it is their deal, not ours.

Furthermore, the US is already muddled in a illegal war that seems to be impossible to get out of, and is hemoraging wealth trying to keep it up which is killing the economy.

Any extra geopolitical moves will certainly hurt the already fragile American economy which would be much more disastorous world wide than some piss pot dictator with a couple of nukes without a known delivery system, and even assuming that they could have a delivery system the most it could hurt is the regional area which underlines the importance of passing this off on China(as stated earlier).

On top of these reasons there is also the appearance of soverignty for both Russia and China when an America armada shows up. Granted as long as no mistakes are made and all governments are notified this shouldn't be a big deal- UNLESS - someone decides to get all John Wayne-ish, which unfortunately the US seems to be on a role doing. This obviously only will distabilize the region even more and draw up sides across world lines.

Then there is the illogical nature of your fear. If NK is a threat because of their missles - then why don't they attack? If they have the capablity and they are crazy as you claim, they should have. They didn't. They told everyone about the tests and dispite no one likely it, it isn't illegal - which is more than I can say for American's recent actions. When an argument, such as yours, is based in so much fear you know it is false. Truth doesn't do fear.


Edited to abid by Lizards command...

[edit on 11-10-2006 by Waiting2awake]

Thank you KL.

I have been wondering why KJ insists on unilateral talks with the US, and why is he being so brash. Then came this latest threat about a missile launch and if we impose more sanctions it means war. Then it occurred to me. This is how you would act if you were desperate. Maybe the current sanctions are doing a better job than we think. I think the nuke test and threats are just to try to provoke us into an attack, then he can respond by attacking SK and he thinks the world will blame it on the US. He knows we will not talk to him directly, but insists on it so it makes us look like the bad guys. If we do send one of SeekerOf's stinker WMD's over there preemptively again we look like the bad guys and China will probably step in. At least maybe this is what he is hoping.

I think he is desperate. Desperate enough to go to war to try to invade SK to get the resources he is lacking. But he doesn’t want to unless he makes it look like someone else started it so big brother China can help him out.

I think we should impose more sanctions and wait. Let him rant if he wants to. I say call his bluff, but be ready.

Mod Edit: to remove insult.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by SteveR
Hey Becky, are you from the rural South, maybe inbred? Your jingoistic attitudes seem to be popular there

Just a thought

Besides a funny accent, the majority of people in the rural south are God fearing, good natured, and grounded in right or wrong.

Your comments have zero to do with N.K. and the threatened use of a nuclear missle and you managed to insult many people at the same time.

Please stay on topic.

Very unfortunately, my comments are everything to do with NK. You are the ideologies breeding ground.

The ideology that is going to get people killed.