North Korea says nuclear test successful

Originally posted by TG
I live in the UK and Ive never seen any nuclear weapons here.

Duh, they are not going to leave them out on the street with a sign saying "nuclear weapons" .

Originally posted by JEREK

Originally posted by DaFunk13
This make anyone else remember that scene from that stupid movie?

I'm So Ronery
I'm so ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone...

Team America. Thats a funny movie. I watched it last night for the first time.

No wonder you were so quick to recognise it!!
Is it the puppet movie with a lot of bad words?

If it is then I've seen it too and its absolutely hilarious!!
lol:

On a separate note, I'm still intrigued about that T-4 a/c sent out by Japan. The specifications posted about it by another poster make it extremely improbable to be possessed by Japan because:

It has supersonic(excess of mach 3) and nuclear capabilities which do not fit into Japan's current policies(which are of liable to cahnge very soon anyways! ) and is of Russian origin!!
I think this is a case of mistaken identity or simply a wrong name!

Crazy Kim Jong?

Since I posted this thread in the early hours of the morning, I’ve been paying attention to the news reports and many internet forums. One of the most worrying things I see is how people attempt to claim that people are going around saying Kim Jong II suffers from a mental illness. This is firstly not funny and secondly unfounded and has no place in a debate. Unless you yourself are a trained psychiatrist and have personal experience with the man all these claims do is derail a thread and give pointless conjecture to the debate.

If we’re meant to be here to Deny Ignorance, pushing forward a belief without opinion is not doing that.

Stability or Insanity?

When the report came out, their were several people who did not believe it. They thought that by North Korea testing Nuclear Weapons it would place the country in danger. This itself tends to be unfounded - the same views were present when North Korea tested Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles, when it started the Nuclear program, when it purchased material from Pakistan and other Nation’s. However, nothing has ever happened to them - the sanctions placed upon them by the United Nations does not harm the North Korean Government it only causes to punish the people. Furthermore, the North Korean Government has such control over the media process that they are never seen as the ones conducting a bad act.

The North Korean people do see a trend, where they are the ones in the wrong, where they are evil, where they are the enemy. However, North Korea has not engaged in a military conflict for longer than many of us have been alive. The Korean War, the Cold War and the fight between Communism and Capitalism are long over and the World is nothing like it used to be. Aggressive Nations are now the ones with the Nuclear Weapons and by having them, they gain a level of protection from invasion.

Threat to the West?

The fear mongering on this, is also the main area of concern. Nuclear Weapons have been used twice - both by the United State’s during times of war. China, Russia, Pakistan have not once used them on another nation even while at war. However, there is a common trend that links the three together. When they developed Nuclear Weapons they were viewed as the enemy they were the threat to our way of life. The odd thing is, Russia, Pakistan and China are closer now to the West than they have ever been. There was a time when like now, people called for war - people were calling for death and destruction and a Nuclear Apocalypse.

Why do people call for this? There’s now a historical precedent, which displays once a Nation removes any ability of external hostility towards them they begin to move more towards one another. The problem at the moment is that the West and several Nations are at a deadlock. We’re not trying to engage them in talks because we know out and out we can destroy them. When the balance of power is shifted things change. China changed, Russia changed, Pakistan changed and North Korea will also. The worst thing we could do would be to attack them and risk Nuclear attacks to the Middle East, Japan, South Korea and possibly Europe and the Americas.

Apocalypse Now?

There seems to be, more and more people calling for the End of the World. This to me, is more worrying than North Korea having nuclear weapons. The fact, there are people who are willing to risk a Nuclear War, to risk the lives of millions of people, to risk possible destruction of our complete way of life is the biggest threat at the moment. While people think they’re doing Gods work on Earth, work that results on death it is about time we begin to look at ourselves and not everyone else.

We all know who these people are. We all know that they preach nothing aside from hate and we all know they’re not just of one faith. It’s about time we clean out our own Nations before we begin to try and Police the world and that goes for European Nations, Asian Nations, American Nations and any in between.

You want to know what North Korea is all about? We think Saddam had a repressive regime?

If there is a hell, then Kim Jong-il will be dancing at its deepest core one day.

Here's what happens in a political prisoner's camp:

Execution victims included those who pleaded for death during torture, stole food, or simply wept over the fate of two small children left home alone. The charge was lack of confidence in the mother party. Also included are those who are branded as ''anti-party elements'' or ''reactionaries.''

The public execution ground is so crammed with prisoners that the women in the front watch the killing from a distance of only a meter or so and often get blood splashed on them. Some women prisoners are so shocked that they vomit, faint, or develop mental illness (e.g., sudden singing or laughing hysterically). They are sent to punishment cells for being ''weak in ideology'' and ''showing sympathy to the people's enemy.'' Those who become completely insane simply disappear and nobody knows what happens to them.

Hi-suk Choi and Young-ok Choi, housewives from Kimchaek City, were punished for singing at the site and later died of shock during electric torture. The Kaechon Prison has twenty punishment cells that are always full of ''ideologically weak'' prisoners on the days of public executions.

He is an attention hore. That is the only reason he did this to make the west notice him. The one way to bring him to his knee is to sanction playboy.

The danger now is that NK can sell its materials, technology, and even expertise to other agents in the world.

Some people seem to think that this means that NK now has a nuclear weapon, when, technically, they've triggered a large explosive nuclear reaction in a test facility, its generally understood that there is a big lag between that and making a fire-able nuke missile. Making an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile with a nuclear warhead is also another big step, and all of that will take time.

Of course, NK could lob its nukes at nearby South Korea and Japan, rather than risk loosing a nuke by trying to hit the US. A sad comment that a backwards feudal state run by a hereditary dictator is able to destroy the cities of the most advanced nations on the planet.

Another thing to be aware of is that the SK and NK tend to go through acts of maschismo at the Demilitarized Zone. They will actually shoot at each other, not simply over the Zone but at individual people's positions. Thats a dangerous precipice to be danling nukes over. Are the NKs going to, in the future, periodically roll out nuke missiles to launching pads, in order to 'rattle their sabre'? How many times will that happen before SK, Japan, or the US react?

Originally posted by DYepes
Jef, think about what you said for one minute. If they have this, how are you to know they do not idneed provide sufficient energy to their people? Of course their Autos are useless without petrol, but all their homes are easily linked to a network recieving energy from a Facility plant. Hmm lets see, if they had no abiltiy or have not been suppliyng their own energy, I would assume they would not have been a threat for quite a long time now eh?

There comes a point that you have to start actually looking at ALL the facts here and realising, they dont add up correctly. In fact, it almost seems as if 2+2=5 ....

Obviously you don't or you're realise that almost half of NOrth Koreas power comes from across the border in China

but all their homes are easily linked to a network recieving energy from a Facility plant.

Indeed. AND YET, there are no connections to the civilian power-grid from the nuke 'power' plants.

North Korea is a coutnry racked by famine, ruled under a feudal system. It doesn't need nuclear power, it needs food, if anything. The feudal overlords of North Korea are not building advanced electrical generators for their serfs, if they wanted to help their serfs, they'd try farming. These guys ruling north korea aren't farmers, they're thugs. They're not suppling their people with a clean alternative to fossil fuel, they're brandishing a weapon.

Originally posted by sobolwolf

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
of course the average layman wouldnt know the difference between 500 kilotons and a megaton so it wouldnt matter. mission accomplished as far as propaganda goes.

Why play all your cards at once? If he can successfully detonate a small yield nuke I am sure he can field one at least the size of those that creamed Japan. Also a small yield means less radioactive waste in your backyard, less danger in testing.

Unlikely that it was meant to be a small test, with todays technology it requires as much plutonium for a 0.5kt weapon as it does for a 20Kt weapon. It could be very possible ( if this test was low yield ) that the actual device was a fizzle or only a partial yield. If it was then the NK have an unrealible design unsuitable for weaponisation.

Stability or Insanity?

When the report came out, their were several people who did not believe it. They thought that by North Korea testing Nuclear Weapons it would place the country in danger. This itself tends to be unfounded - the same views were present when North Korea tested Inter-continental Ballistic Missiles, when it started the Nuclear program, when it purchased material from Pakistan and other Nation’s. However, nothing has ever happened to them - the sanctions placed upon them by the United Nations does not harm the North Korean Government it only causes to punish the people. Furthermore, the North Korean Government has such control over the media process that they are never seen as the ones conducting a bad act.

The North Korean people do see a trend, where they are the ones in the wrong, where they are evil, where they are the enemy. However, North Korea has not engaged in a military conflict for longer than many of us have been alive. The Korean War, the Cold War and the fight between Communism and Capitalism are long over and the World is nothing like it used to be. Aggressive Nations are now the ones with the Nuclear Weapons and by having them, they gain a level of protection from invasion.

True. I won't argue with that logic. Nuke abilities by third world states does give them a false cloak of protection from outside influences, especially the West.

Threat to the West?

The fear mongering on this, is also the main area of concern. Nuclear Weapons have been used twice - both by the United State’s during times of war.

This is op/ed, but I'm tired of this drivel of reasoning: The statement that, well, the U.S. is the only country in the world to actually use nuclear weapons seems to be to be simultaneously saying, then it's justification for countries to acquire nuclear weapons, and no matter what type of nation has them -- including states like North Korea -- they will be inherently more responsible than the U.S. with the power and technology.

What a load of freakin' b.s. No amount of "reasoning" is going to convince me that Kim Jong-il wouldn't relish turning Seoul into a heaping nuclear pile of ash at the first whim -- this is a man who is living a family legacy that has made Korean "reunification" on their terms -- i.e., under the Kim family rule -- it's primary policy objective.

Citing the U.S. as the only aggressive users of nuclear weapons is just symptomatic of American-bashing that has grown to plague-like proportions in the world.

China, Russia, Pakistan have not once used them on another nation even while at war. However, there is a common trend that links the three together. When they developed Nuclear Weapons they were viewed as the enemy they were the threat to our way of life. The odd thing is, Russia, Pakistan and China are closer now to the West than they have ever been. There was a time when like now, people called for war - people were calling for death and destruction and a Nuclear Apocalypse.

Are you reading the same newspapers I read? Russia closer to us now more than ever? China our ally? Pakistan, who is freakin' harboring Osama for their own self-interests, is an ally to us on the war on terror?

These countries are playing the great diplomatic game of smiling wide before shoving the knife through the heart. They're no more allies with the U.S. than some of the Islamic clerics preaching in U.S. mosques are.

Why do people call for this? There’s now a historical precedent, which displays once a Nation removes any ability of external hostility towards them they begin to move more towards one another. The problem at the moment is that the West and several Nations are at a deadlock. We’re not trying to engage them in talks because we know out and out we can destroy them. When the balance of power is shifted things change. China changed, Russia changed, Pakistan changed and North Korea will also. The worst thing we could do would be to attack them and risk Nuclear attacks to the Middle East, Japan, South Korea and possibly Europe and the Americas.

Yes, all three of those counties have changed to become bastions of free speech, religious and political tolerance. You are absolutely right. How could I be so war-mongering and hell-bent on the apocalyptic destruction of the entire globe. In fact, we ought to be celebrating Kim Jong-il's grand achievement -- for world peace is now within our reach!

Apocalypse Now?

There seems to be, more and more people calling for the End of the World. This to me, is more worrying than North Korea having nuclear weapons. The fact, there are people who are willing to risk a Nuclear War, to risk the lives of millions of people, to risk possible destruction of our complete way of life is the biggest threat at the moment. While people think they’re doing Gods work on Earth, work that results on death it is about time we begin to look at ourselves and not everyone else.

We all know who these people are. We all know that they preach nothing aside from hate and we all know they’re not just of one faith. It’s about time we clean out our own Nations before we begin to try and Police the world and that goes for European Nations, Asian Nations, American Nations and any in between.

Finally, you have said something worthwhile. We do know who all these people are: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, who feels he is submitting to Allah's will by pursuing nuclear weapons so he can wipe Israel off the face of the earth; Vladimir Putin of Russia, who is liking himself lately to a new self-styled tsar, murdering dissidentsleft and right; and now I suppose we can add Kim Jong-il to that list, a man who promotes with an iron rod a perverion of the Confuscious philosophy that giving one's life to the Fatherland, absolute devotion to the leader, is the highest principle in life one can have.



[edit on 9-10-2006 by behindthescenes]

Thanks for the T-4 info Jonna

CX.

I thought that Kim hated Bush...
So why did he just help him and all the other war party out during election time?

or maybe this is all a "wag the dog", and an october surprise has shown itself...

a new threat from N korea might work better than rushing things with Iran...

Regarding Dyepes comments...

North Korea is not a good place... it is repressive to its people, and is abusive towards its neighbors...

North Korea has made a business out of counterfeiting US dollars (and other nations currency)
North Korea accepts food aid for its hungry people from several of its neighbors... this is essentially blackmail paid for peace...

North Korea has a government kidnapping department, that makes a career of snatching S.Koreans, and Japanese people from their homes, and business's and taking them to N. Korea, and being forced to work there on government projects...
(usually scientists, or actresses, or other "brain trust" members)

Now to be fair,
Japan, and Korea have had a very bad history of abusing each other... and the Japanese have even made official apologies, and condemnations of how they treated the Koreans during war.

But that was then, and this is now, and if N. Korea wants to keep its national support (which is propping up its people with much needed food) it needs to bring something to the table...

It just isn't fair though, that N. Korea keep expecting other nations to support its basic needs, while it spends all its money and efforts on building a military machine.

and as far as having nuclear plants to provide electricity... well, we volunteered to deliver them... the deal fell through, due to lack of Korean effort.

and yes, N. Korea at night looks like a deserted land, due to the lack of electricity...
actual non doctored image of N korean night light

there is a little light in the capital (probably their showcase city, the only one tourists are allowed in)
I will also note* (BIG NOTE) that most images you see, will show N.Korea as totally dark, due to propaganda editing...

Which means, suspect everything that comes from our government regarding N. Korea... because we are already being played...

Believe it or not, I propose this a good thing. China has sat on its duff for years while the PDRK has been building an arsenel of nuclear weapons. Now that they've actually tested one, now the PRC will have to face the reality that they've got a rogue, nuclear armed state with a history of infiltration and incursion against the ROK(Republic of Korea) sitting on its NW border. The real threat isn't to the US but to the ROK and Japan, 2 of China's most important trading partners. There's a whole bunch of Chinese right now who are thinking that Mao's decision to interfere in the Korean War was not a good one. It's blowback time for China. The Chinese gov't is trying to figure a way to save face in this sorry matter without looking like its saving face.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
this was not what NK wanted..

I thought NK was one of the most paranoid, secret and heavily guarded nations on the planet and yet a mere poster on ATS knows what they wanted?????

Come on. Please. You have no idea whatsoever what NK wanted out of the test at all. No one, except the people inside NK who developed the device knows anything about it. Why even bother posting something like this?

N.Korea has nuclear weapons. Funny how everyone blantantly leaves out the most important question. Who was it who gave them the ability to build a nuke in the first place ? Well done Rummy... Great move....

The U.S. gave North Korea two light-water nuclear reactors in 1994.

The only people we should be concerned about are those criminals in the Whitehouse. They are the greatest threat to the security and well being of every human on Planet Earth.

money.cnn.com...

It's about time that you Americans and British stopped worrying about the state of the rest of the world and took a hard look at your own countries and corrupt Governments. There about to flush your constitution & democracies down the toilet. I would advise every one of you to take a good hard look at N.Korea because if Bush and Blair get there way you'll be living in a dictatorship something akin to N.Korea.

As for N.Korea having Nukes. Big Deal, welcome to the Nuclear club. N.Korea now has a nuclear deterrent. Hopefully this will be enough to persuade the nut in the whitehouse that a pre-emtive strike is out of the question. I personally believe this is not the case and this has been the agenda of Bush and co all along to instigate a world wide conflict. Time to put this nut in a padded cell where he belongs, along with the rest of the Bush and Blair administrations.

Well said Odium - spot on
www.abovetopsecret.com...

To believe any of the propaganda about N.Korea is more or less backing your own governments stance (UK & US) on the issue. Governments that are clearly and undeniably corrupt and immoral. I think the majority of the people need to wake up fast. How much longer does this phony charade, that is the war on Terror have to go on and at what cost. Are you really willing to sacrifice the whole of humanity?

It's time to do something about own your corrupt government before you concern yourself with others.........Peace!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by behindthescenes
Say what you will about the tyranny of Saddam; there are leaders in this world a million times worse that unfortunately will go perpetually unchallenged because a larger nuclear power has its protective aura over it.

You mean like Mugabe in Zimbabwe.... or the government in Sudan....or the government of the DR Congo...

Oh wait...hang on...

Something missing there I think

Very bad news indeed.Its akin to giving biggest neighborhood bully a gun.Japan and s.k.will be forced 2 take some kind of reciprical actions.Their citizens will demand such as they should.And as far as n.k.ppl being well fed,why then has s.k.been donating tons of rice every year?That was until n.k.nuclear path became clear.You can bet iran will be watching world reaction very closely.

Originally posted by behindthescenes
You want to know what North Korea is all about? We think Saddam had a repressive regime?

If there is a hell, then Kim Jong-il will be dancing at its deepest core one day.

Here's what happens in a political prisoner's camp:

Execution victims included those who pleaded for death during torture, stole food, or simply wept over the fate of two small children left home alone. The charge was lack of confidence in the mother party. Also included are those who are branded as ''anti-party elements'' or ''reactionaries.''

The public execution ground is so crammed with prisoners that the women in the front watch the killing from a distance of only a meter or so and often get blood splashed on them. Some women prisoners are so shocked that they vomit, faint, or develop mental illness (e.g., sudden singing or laughing hysterically). They are sent to punishment cells for being ''weak in ideology'' and ''showing sympathy to the people's enemy.'' Those who become completely insane simply disappear and nobody knows what happens to them.

Hi-suk Choi and Young-ok Choi, housewives from Kimchaek City, were punished for singing at the site and later died of shock during electric torture. The Kaechon Prison has twenty punishment cells that are always full of ''ideologically weak'' prisoners on the days of public executions.

Kinda makes you think of Guantanamo bay does'nt it?

And as to the comment made by the poster that says NK's media propogate that they are the good guys, I think other Nations do that too. (Fox news)?

We all live under some kind of propoganda by our governments. I just think it is wrong to condemn North Korea for what they are doing, considering we've all had a part to play in cold wars, wars for oil, killing civilians and the like.

Pointing fingers at others won't sort out the world's problems.
Getting our world leaders to fight it out 'contender' style might do more for peace though.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by behindthescenes
Say what you will about the tyranny of Saddam; there are leaders in this world a million times worse that unfortunately will go perpetually unchallenged because a larger nuclear power has its protective aura over it.

You mean like Mugabe in Zimbabwe.... or the government in Sudan....or the government of the DR Congo...

Oh wait...hang on...

Something missing there I think

Last I checked, none of those countries were actively pursuing a nuclear program. And if I recall, Sudan is being overtaken by Islamic fundamentalists, so if you're alluding to these countries being protected under a nuclear umbrella by America, you're pretty mistaken. If anything, the Sudanese gov't. now has the unabashed backing to Ahmadinejad....

Reports of a second underground test...

just caught them saying it on Foxnews