Report: North Korea conducts nuke test

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by Astygia

North Korea had zero nukes in 2000....now in 2006 how many do they have....Bush policies concerning North Korea is a huge failure

How do you know this? Looks like they were doing something way back in the early 1990's and yes that is during the Clinton Adminstration. What people are doing again is blameing one adminstration over the next. Time and time again. What good does the blameing game do? If he shoots off a missle with a nuke on it people can die. Thats what needs to be adressed now. Not who did what and when. But, what are we going to do about it now. President Bush would probably like to go to war with NK. Except when he went to war with Iraq almost everyone was behind him or it wouldn't of went through. Now however peoples changed their tuned. You can't do that once something is done you have to finish it out. It doesn't look good to start something and not finish it. That could show a sign of weakness and thats very bad. So, I would say thats why he hasn't done anything with the NK.

In U.S.-North Korea relations, the initial breakthrough occurred in October 1994 when U.S. negotiators persuaded North Korea to freeze its nuclear program, with onsite monitoring by U.N. inspectors. In exchange, the United States, with input from South Korea and Japan, promised major steps to ease North Korea's acute energy shortage

The link for this article is here.

news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by LDragonFire
sorry, Its just that it gets very old with all the people that blame all the problems of the world on Clinton.

North Korea had zero nukes in 2000....now in 2006 how many do they have....Bush policies concerning North Korea is a huge failure

You cant be serious. Is that how you honestly perceive that thats how things work???

that has to be the most simpleminded bush-bashing I've ever seen.

If your expecting a remark/comment...dont be.
maybe I'll respond once you pass middle school.

North Korea has duped everyone and fingerpointing is useless. Both parties in the U.S. and the rest of the world need to come together and deal with it seriously IMHO.

Well, not to devide this it is patently false to blame this on Clinton, just as it is wrong to blame this all 100% on Bush. This is NK fault, they may have been helped by Bush's maniac obsession with the ME, but it was still NK that did it.

The thing is now, maybe the US should talk to them? If not what is the recourse? War? Isn't there an awful lot of that right now? Hasn't that become passe yet?

Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Well, not to devide this it is patently false to blame this on Clinton

not at all.
People are quick to the gun on blaming everything on Bush.

I wish the mainstream media wouldn't politicizes everything...but they do.
This should be a time when the US, and the world unites in an effort to have a nuke free North Korea.

If you recall, sunday night the NK nuke news broke...and early monday Hillary Clinton was saying that this happened because of the "failed Bush administration policy"....which in fact it was her own husband that 'lit the match that started the fire'. China is NK's biggest ally...Clinton was also kind enough to give that communist country ballistic missile navigational technology.
We even continually gave NK aid under Clintons policy....we gave them nuclear tech...they built bombs with it. We gave them loads of money...which they spent on there military. We gave the malnourished country food aid...the food went to his army.

In my mind, North Korea has been allowed to exist for far to long, and must be dealt with. And I'm not talkin more sanctions.
They will obviously prefer slow going negotiations....while they fix there new missile to make it run smoother and go farther, and continue to invest heavily in their nuclear weapon program.

Waiting2awake
The thing is now, maybe the US should talk to them? If not what is the recourse? War? Isn't there an awful lot of that right now? Hasn't that become passe yet?

We have been trying to get them back to 6 party talks for many many months.
BTW, war will never become passé...are you sure you even understand what that word means.(?)

Bush is to blame, his stubernes costs the world each time, if he would of just met with that nut, piongyang and would of told him , look we are not going to atack you, maybe things would of been a bit better.

Murcielago, this statement:

North Korea has been allowed to exist for too long

is dangerously close to nazi fascism.

I read somewhere that fascism will never die; the next time it appears, it will address itself as anti-fascism.

Be careful not to fall into that trap.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Bush is to blame, his stubernes costs the world each time, if he would of just met with that nut, piongyang and would of told him , look we are not going to atack you, maybe things would of been a bit better.

Thats just dumb.

First of all, at least you realize he is a nutcase.

But, Clinton did just that.

back in the mid 90's he was threatening to build nukes. So Clinton gave him what he wanted so he would just be quiet. Clinton gave him nuclear technology and money and food, and all sorts of other things, which he used all of them in nefarious ways.....and what did we get in return....a promise that he would not build nuclear weapons...well, actually, all we got was a broken promise.

Bush did everything right...He gave him nothing, put sanctions in place, put NK on an "axis of evil" list, etc.

If we told him "we wont attack you", he wouldn't believe and and we would be in the same boat....He will still invest heavily in nuclear technology, and we will be duped again in a few more years when we comes out with statements that he has over a 100 nuclear tipped ICBM's pointing at the US, give me what I want, or I will push the button.

You can NEVER take the military option off of the table.


Astygia - No, its nothing like that. They were all about controlling the world, While I'm just talkin' about how to have stability in the middle east.

Thats just dumb.

First of all, at least you realize he is a nutcase.

But, Clinton did just that.

back in the mid 90's he was threatening to build nukes. So Clinton gave him what he wanted so he would just be quiet. Clinton gave him nuclear technology and money and food, and all sorts of other things, which he used all of them in nefarious ways.....and what did we get in return....a promise that he would not build nuclear weapons...well, actually, all we got was a broken promise.

Don't compare clinton with bush, and don't compare the US foreign policy under the clinton adminsistration with the present one, diplomacy does not exist right now
under the bush era, no matter how you look at it, it is not present.
What hapend , bush took ofice and things started to stink because his policy on foreign relations, the result of a nuclear north corea retrying to build a nuke started under the bush administration, North coreans wants a nuke simply because they feel the threat, to think that north corea wants a nuke now to take over the world is dumb, it wants it because bush imposes a agresive policy with no diplomatic means.
All this restarted because bush wanted to , he simply wants new enemys for united states, it's his plejure, clinton did a wise thing, and things would of remained like they were if bush did not adopt a stupid policy.

Bush did everything right...He gave him nothing, put sanctions in place, put NK on an "axis of evil" list, etc.

Funny how china is not on the axis of eavil since it's a comunist state, funny how the arab emirates are not on the axis of evil since they don't give rights to woman and they have a dictator ship kind of nation, must be because of the oil huh?

You can NEVER take the military option off of the table.

No, but you can decide , either it's right or left.
since they dont know what is bush thinking of course they are going to arm to the teeth.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Don't compare clinton with bush, and don't compare the US foreign policy under the clinton adminsistration with the present one

I understand why you wouldn't want me to compare there policies...because it makes Clinton look bad, and Bush look good....Something that’s just unacceptable with your far "left" views.

diplomacy does not exist right now
under the bush era, no matter how you look at it, it is not present.

Really? Do you even know what diplomacy is? Its basically relations with other nations......So we have none of this under big bad Bush???
Last time I checked were allies to dozens of countries...heres a few: UK, Japan, Israel, South Korea, Australia, etc.
All we have done is stated where we stand, and telling our enemies that we know who you are, and your on our sh*t list.

the result of a nuclear north corea retrying to build a nuke started under the bush administration

First of all...Korea is spelt with a K, not a C.
And you couldn't be more wrong.
Did you not read what I have already stated in previous posts.(?)
They were threaten to build nukes during the Clinton Administration, But Clinton gave him what he wanted so he wouldn't build nukes....But Clinton gave him nuclear tech that helped advance his nuclear weapons agenda.
(again, read one of my previous post in which I discussed this.

North coreans wants a nuke simply because they feel the threat, to think that north corea wants a nuke now to take over the world is dumb, it wants it because bush imposes a agresive policy with no diplomatic means.

dumb? To use a Nuke for Blackmail isn't dumb....But it is very dangerous.
And just because they feel "threatened" by the US attacking them....thats no reason to build a nuke...If anything, that’s what’s going to get you nuked in the first place. Terrorists around the world fear the US....So maybe to help ease world tension we should just give them all nukes....that way its all fair...right?
We should not have diplomatic relations with North Korea. That message also goes out to terrorist harboring nations (IE: Iran & Syria & Pakistan, ect)
I dont see why you want the whole world to be happy with you, it will never happen, even if you give them everything they want, and everything you have.

All this restarted because bush wanted to , he simply wants new enemies for united states

with a statement like that....proves to me that you indeed are a conspiracy theorist left wing nutjob.
Bush doesn't have control over North Korea.
He doesn't want enemies, hes just finally doing something about all the enemies that have been out there...long before he stepped foot in the Whitehouse.

Face it. Clinton was a bad president, there several terrorist attacks to the US while he was in office. Heres 2 for example: 1. The world trade center bombing...It killed half a dozen people, and injured over a thousand...what was Clinton's response....nothing. 2. The USS Cole was bombed, 17 military personal were killed....Clinton did nothing. Bombing a military vessel is a VERY clear act of war...all he did was.......nothing.

murcielago
You can NEVER take the military option off of the table.

pepsi
No, but you can decide , either it's right or left.
since they dont know what is bush thinking of course they are going to arm to the teeth.

I'm assuming you mean right or wrong?
And having a nuclear NK....is wrong.
Heres simpler way for you to think of it as: A guy is robbing a bank, then makes his getaway, he runs out the front door and sees dozens of cops pointing there guns at him, snipers on rooftops aiming at his chest, He has 2 options: 1. Give up, and he will be punished, but not killed. OR 2. he can reach for the gun in his pocket...which will get him killed.

Funny how china is not on the axis of eavil since it's a communist state

China is a loose US ally.
Meaning, yes there communist (like Russia), which means we will never be "real" close to them. But the US & China has huge economical ties.
China is not as strict as North Korea, all there people there are brainwashed into hating the US, and think that Kim Jong Il is practically a god.

funny how the arab emirates are not on the axis of evil since they don't give rights to woman

And thats threatens the US' national security how???

[edit on 13-10-2006 by Murcielago]

Republicans blame Clinton and Democrats blame Bush. The fact is, they all had a hand in this.

You can't say the Clinton Administration did nothing or failed to stop North Korea. We directly talked with North Korea and treated them like humans in the 90's. They promised to accept our demands in return for incentives, but we were duped... you cannot fault that to the Clinton Administration. Trying and failing is far better than not trying at all. As for the Bush Administration, I give them credit for the six party talks, however, it is irresponsible to propose this type of setting and back out of talks leaving it in the hands of the Asian powers.

The fact is, when the Clinton Administration and North Korea agreed to the Agreed Framework to limit North Korea's nuclear program, everything was going smothly until the Republican led Congress elected in 1994 opposed the Agreement causing further tension between the two nations.

This is where my bipartisanship ends: It was the Republican led Congress that interrupted North Korea's disarmament. And since then it was the Republicans who have refused to handle the situation appropriately. Now, America in a situation where, chances are, we will be living with a nuclear North Korea until reunification of the Koreas.

Those of you who thinks Bush will attack North Korea, you're idiots. He won't touch them, just like he refuses to engage with them now.

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Republicans blame Clinton and Democrats blame Bush. The fact is, they all had a hand in this.

true.
Clinton helped start it, and Bush is trying to end it.

You can't say the Clinton Administration did nothing or failed to stop North Korea. We directly talked with North Korea and treated them like humans in the 90's.

The US treated NK with to much respect, all that did was bolster their ego....in thinking that they had the US over a barrel.

They promised to accept our demands in return for incentives, but we were duped... you cannot fault that to the Clinton Administration.

of course you can...It was the Clinton administration that helped them along in there bomb building plot.

Trying and failing is far better than not trying at all.

I wonder if thats always your attitude.(?)
We went into Iraq to put an end to Saddam’s WMD program, which we did.
We are "trying" to make Iraq a good safe place for Iraqi's to live, and build a democracy their, but terrorists are slowing down the effort.
You probably prefer we just cut & run...am I right?

As for the Bush Administration, I give them credit for the six party talks, however, it is irresponsible to propose this type of setting and back out of talks leaving it in the hands of the Asian powers.

Its their "region"....should they not get a "say" in the matter?
and the only one who backed out of talks was North Korea...now of course the reason is obvious...which we suspected was the reason. They were just using the talks to delay the world, and give them time to progress in there Nuclear Technology.

The fact is, when the Clinton Administration and North Korea agreed to the Agreed Framework to limit North Korea's nuclear program, everything was going smothly until the Republican led Congress elected in 1994 opposed the Agreement causing further tension between the two nations.

The Clinton administration assumed that North Korea would collapse...they guessed wrong, and now the North Koreans are getting closer to having real nuclear weapons.
It sounds like your mad because the republicans know whats best for the country.

This is where my bipartisanship ends:

pa-lease.
any real republican could tell what party you support long before you stated it.

It was the Republican led Congress that interrupted North Korea's disarmament. And since then it was the Republicans who have refused to handle the situation appropriately. Now, America in a situation where, chances are, we will be living with a nuclear North Korea until reunification of the Koreas.

no, It was the republican led congress that stopped giving the North Koreans everything they wanted.
And I dont see them joining any time remotely soon. There border between each other is the most heavily militarized border in the world.

Those of you who thinks Bush will attack North Korea, you're idiots. He won't touch them, just like he refuses to engage with them now.

First of all your assuming that North Korea really does have nukes.
The US (among others) havn't confirmed that yet. The US has jets flying in China near the North Korean border, they are modified to detect if a nuke really went off...and so far...its still a negative.
I find it interesting that there was no radiation to be found, and the fact that it was pretty small. Most people are now deeming it an unsuccessful test. I will only believe that NK is indeed a nuclear capable country if they do another test...this year. If they dont I will think of it as, either an earthquake that they took advantage of, and they filled the mine with regular ol' tnt.

About attacking them:
That could be a very sticky situation. There people are VERY brainwashed, they have a government controlled media...which is very bad. So theres not a chance in hell that we could "win over the hearts and minds". and an assassination might just make someone else take Kim's role, and them the whole country would be furious at the US for killing there god...I mean leader. I dont think the US would use a nuke (unless something unforeseen takes place). I think the best route would be to take out any and all military assets, and of course the nuclear power plants.

[removed quote of Entire previous post]


Here we go. I really hate doing this on the forums, I wish we could sit down person to person and talk about this... I know we are on opposite sides here and convincing each other is almost impossible, which in itself says something about our current situation.

Okay, you're clearly blaming Clinton for the situtation, if not, reword your statement. North Korea's nuclear program started well before the Clinton Administration and started to vamp up in during Bush 41. Blaming the Clinton Administration for getting duped seems a bit odd to me. We have NO control of what the DPRK does or does not do... you want to say that we do, then I blame Clinton and both Bush 41 and Bush 43.

About the Republicans, don't tell me that they know what's best. They have been in power for 12 years now and it is clear corruption is running rampant among the Republican party. Granted, there are many Republicans which I support and many Democrats which I hate, but don't you ever tell me which party is better and which is not. The Republicans backed out of the Agreed Framwork which caused North Korea to back out themselves. As for the Iraq war, read my other posts on the matter and you will see and I a wide range of opinions on the subject.

Now, for the nuclear bomb, there are contradictory reports and the most recent report show radioactivity. We will know for sure what they exploded in a few days.

Reunification of the two Korea's is possible. So what if it is the most militarized border in the world? The two militaries may be a wall but that can be moved and the mines can be moved as well.




[edit on 10/14/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Okay, you're clearly blaming Clinton for the situtation, if not, reword your statement. North Korea's nuclear program started well before the Clinton Administration and started to vamp up in during Bush 41. Blaming the Clinton Administration for getting duped seems a bit odd to me. We have NO control of what the DPRK does or does not do... you want to say that we do, then I blame Clinton and both Bush 41 and Bush 43.

No, I dont put the whole problem squarly on his shoulders, I just feel he a had a much bigger role in a nuclear NK then Bush had.
My posts sound like I'm hard on Clinton...One reason for that is because some people have nothing but hatred for Bush & all everything he does. And the best way to "take a shot on them" is to talk harshly about there beloved impeached former President.

The Republicans backed out of the Agreed Framwork which caused North Korea to back out themselves.

yes, and the reason was because Crazy Kim, once again began to make nuclear threats.

Now, for the nuclear bomb, there are contradictory reports and the most recent report show radioactivity. We will know for sure what they exploded in a few days.

Whats going to change a few days from now?

This is just a small response to your previous post. I'm a Moderate Democrat, and while I dissaprove of Bush at the moment, that does not mean I hate him all together. There are many Bush policies and lesgislations that I like... I'm almost like Lieberman.

We could always play the blame game, but it is not for us to judge. We will see what historians says 40-50 years in the future.

As for what's going to change in a few days: absolutely nothing. I was only adressing your doubt about the nuclear test. There will be more confirmation by both America and Asian nations in the coming days. I said the US currently have contradicting analysis, one showing radioactivity at the test sight and others with nothing. Now if North Korea is brave enough to conduct an above ground nuclear test, well I think some things can change (and I DON'T mean military action).

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Now if North Korea is brave enough to conduct an above ground nuclear test, well I think some things can change (and I DON'T mean military action).

THe UN has put some strict sanctions on NK...which is good. But there still 2 communist country's that are preventing even stricter sanctions....China & Russia.

The only was there will be just one Korea....is If South Korea beats them (with ally support). Tensions between the 2 sides have been only going up.
Hell, we wouldn't even have this damn problem if it weren't for China....that goes for now and in 50's, because there are a BIG backer of NK, and give them food and all sorts of resources, something we cant prevent because they have a border with NK. But also I'm referring to over 5 decades ago, when there was the Korean war, in which South Korea & the US were fighting North Korea...because of the NK invasion into SK. We not only pushed them back to there border...but kept going, and were nearly all the way to China's border.....But then China had there army there waiting for us...and so we moved back.

There first nuke (if it really was a nuke) has been rated very low, and even dubbed a dud. The more time passes on, the more I'm thinking that this was all just a ploy from crazy kim, and that it was likely just a regular bomb...albeit a big regular bomb.

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by MasterRegal
Now if North Korea is brave enough to conduct an above ground nuclear test, well I think some things can change (and I DON'T mean military action).

THe UN has put some strict sanctions on NK...which is good. But there still 2 communist country's that are preventing even stricter sanctions....China & Russia.

The only was there will be just one Korea....is If South Korea beats them (with ally support). Tensions between the 2 sides have been only going up.
Hell, we wouldn't even have this damn problem if it weren't for China....that goes for now and in 50's, because there are a BIG backer of NK, and give them food and all sorts of resources, something we cant prevent because they have a border with NK. But also I'm referring to over 5 decades ago, when there was the Korean war, in which South Korea & the US were fighting North Korea...because of the NK invasion into SK. We not only pushed them back to there border...but kept going, and were nearly all the way to China's border.....But then China had there army there waiting for us...and so we moved back.

There first nuke (if it really was a nuke) has been rated very low, and even dubbed a dud. The more time passes on, the more I'm thinking that this was all just a ploy from crazy kim, and that it was likely just a regular bomb...albeit a big regular bomb.

Please don't lecture me on the history of the area, I know the history... I know both sides of the history. I know what China wants and I know what South Korea, North Korea, Japan, Russia and what the United States wants... I know the history and the situation. Reinterating history will not help your case.

The problem with reunificaiton does not lie within China, China wants a peaceful reunification, it lies with the DPRK and South Korea. Both sides want and peaceful reunification, but both sides have different ideas to go about with reunification. While war is the most obvious ways of going about with reunification, a coup and even negotiations are all possibilities. China does not want a mass exodus which we both know.

As for the nukes, even if this was a fake (I think it was genuine but not successful), they will get it eventually. They have been working on it for quite some time.

PS: Use the proper form of "there" and "their" please.

Clinton helped start it, and Bush is trying to end it.

Yes, by incuraging north corea to build nukes, simply put, more sanctions more nukes.

You can't say the Clinton Administration did nothing or failed to stop North Korea.
We directly talked with North Korea and treated them like humans in the 90's.

The clinton administration was more involved in diplomacy, thats what made the US the shining hill, so far bush ruined all that, 911 hapend under the bush umbrela, if it was in fact a terrorist fact many doubd that but if it was, it too just shows the foreign policy of the bush andministration.

The US treated NK with to much respect, all that did was bolster their ego....in thinking that they ihad the US over a barrel.

Do you think north corea, a country that is small in size and that is cornered, and that is under the chinese influence would some how try to move the world and dictate to it, do you really think that, do you think they would build nukes to take over the world, if you do I advise you to stop waching fox news, do you think a country as poor as north corea has any other intention than to defend it's self?
This is the result of the US foreign policy, you know, when you pull a cat by it's tail it will scrach in an atempt to defend it's self, as little and as scared as it is.
piong yang is a nut, but you know what, bush is another one.
United States has thoulsands of nukes, and they speak of ploriferation, very well, let japan south corea and north corea have them too, if united states has them, then others may have them too.

They promised to accept our demands in return for incentives, but we were duped... you cannot fault that to the Clinton Administration.

You know , clinton administration had a more human face at least, the US was more credible under the clinton administration and clinton was not seen as a nut case like bush is.
I would say, exept the mistake clinton has done, with that sex scandal, he was one of the best presidents united states had from kenedy to now.

This Clinton, Bush blame game is inane. All of this started way before either of them.
It came to a head during Bushes rein, but to say it's his fault? A lot of the things Clinton did enabled NK, but to say it's his fault?
It's an insane, insecure inherited leaders fault. It's the NK's peoples fault, though it's hard to rise up with a gun to your head.
Instead of "blaming", how about coiming up with a way to help the good people of NK?

Pepsi78 - You have the classic "left" point of view......and thats not a good thing.

All you can perceive is that Clinton is god, and Bush is the devil.

Hell, You dont even see a difference between North Korea and the US.

pepsi78
Yes, by incuraging north corea to build nukes, simply put, more sanctions more nukes.

again...Korea has a "K", not a "C"
Were Encouraging NK to build nukes by being strict with them and putting sanctions it place!!!
What would you prefer...For us to send them a fruit basket saying "good job on the nuke test....keep up the good work". Seriously, open your eyes. You damn democrats are so blinded by your hatred for Bush, that you cant even see whats best for the Country and the world!


[edit on 16-10-2006 by Murcielago]