To all those who would cut and run

You obviously don't care about the security of America and it's allies. Nor do you care about democracy, because if you did you'd support our brave soldiers who are fighting and dying in the name of freedom. Do you think Iraq would be better off under Saddam Hussein? Would you rather have Iraq become a new home for terrorists? That is the position of the radical left in America, the very same left who caused us to abandon South Vietnam in their time of need, the same left who brought us abortion, gay rights, and worst of all, Bill Clinton. In WWII, these people would have given up on the fight against Hitler after the first couple of thousand casualties.

I, on the other hand, support freedom, both here and in Iraq. Sure, go ahead, cut and run if that is your wish...but don't blame me when the terrorists come to behead you.

At least I support the troops.



*Note: This is not the way I really feel about this issue. I posted it in the interest of stimulating discussion. In truth, I have very serious doubts about the war in Iraq, but I also listen to right-wing radio and felt the need to illustrate how the conservative right responds to criticism of the Bush administration.



[edit on 7-10-2006 by Flatwoods]

Wow, be prepared for a beating on this one I hope you can handle it.
I on the other hand agree with most of what you say as far as I do support our troops and would never cut and run. What the runners as you call them do not understand is that they get our tv stations over there and the enemy is watching all of the runners and their rallies and are using it to their advantage. They know that America is weak with decent and are using our dirty politics to their advantage. They know that if they can kill a bunch of our people now no matter the cost to themselves the Democrats will be their best friend against George Bush. Islamo Facist, Liberal Facist all the same to me.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by factfinder38]

[edit on 7-10-2006 by factfinder38]

Originally posted by Flatwoods
You obviously don't care about the security of America and it's allies.

Wrong. I don't care about the security of our innocent citizens more than other countries innocent citizens that are dying because of our intrusions.

Nor do you care about democracy, because if you did you'd support our brave soldiers who are fighting and dying in the name of freedom.

Wrong again. We want them to stay alive in the name of freedom. War for peace is an oxymoron. And the people that don't agree are lacking a few levels in their thought process.

Do you think Iraq would be better off under Saddam Hussein?

I've been waiting to answer this one... YES!!!!! He had that region secular and was a major threat to Iran. Hell I wished they'd let him come back to power with a US issued ankle bracelet!

Would you rather have Iraq become a new home for terrorists? That is the position of the radical left in America, the very same left who caused us to abandon South Vietnam in their time of need, the same left who brought us abortion, gay rights, and worst of all, Bill Clinton.

Turn off FAUX News! Those are Bill O'reil's words, give them back they are tainted.

In WWII, these people would have given up on the fight against Hitler after the first couple of thousand casualties.

Teerorist will always be present as long as there is oppression, understand that! We are being counter-productive in our efforts to curd radicalism. There is no pride in the war because it is laced with deception.

I, on the other hand, support freedom, both here and in Iraq. Sure, go ahead, cut and run if that is your wish...but don't blame me when the terrorists come to behead you.

I hope you are young and are suffering from lack of true understanding. Do me a favor, think deeper than usual for a while tomorrow.

*Note: This is not the way I really feel about this issue. I posted it in the interest of stimulating discussion. In truth, I have very serious doubts about the war in Iraq, but I also listen to right-wing radio and felt the need to illustrate how the conservative right responds to criticism of the Bush administration.

Now that I read this...

YOU

AAC



[edit on 7-10-2006 by Flatwoods]

Originally posted by factfinder38
Wow, be prepared for a beating on this one I hope you can handle it.
I on the other hand agree with most of what you say as far as I do support our troups and would never cut and run.
[edit on 7-10-2006 by factfinder38]

Be sure to read my disclaimer at the bottom of my comment. I merely wrote that as a way of illustrating the common conservative "talking points" that are used day in and day out by the pro-war crowd. You'd be surprised how many liberals out have no clue what's being said on conservative talk radio, and this is disappointing because liberals really have no idea how much influence Sean Hannity, Michael Medved, Dennis Prager and the like really have. I'd say that they are primarily responsible for getting George Bush re-elected in 2004, and may even manage to pull a victory for republicans this Novemeber(yes, even with the Foley scandal and everything). This is because so many liberals and Democrats don't understand the nature of the political debate these days, and therefore are un-prepared to argue persuasively.

[Teerorist will always be present as long as there is oppression] quote

Statements like this just amaze me and I have seen them and heard them in many places by some badley misguided people.

Think about this,if you were to take 2 men with the same race and religion then give them all of the money and posesions they wanted what would happen?
At some point one will want what the other has or will think that the other got a better deal.

I would also like to add this:

Imagine you are an Iraqi. Yes, I know there are some Iraqi's who still appreciate are presence there, but for just a moment I ask you to imagine you are an Iraqi who DOESN'T want American forces in his or her country. You'd probably be asking yourself "After all this, why are the Americans still here?"

The answer to this question is a little complicated, and involves more than just "fighting for freedom" or "staying the course". You see, our continued presence in Iraq is a symptom, a symptom of a war that is going on here at home. It is a war of ideology, a war that is being fought over what version of history Americans should accept. Simply put, the conservatives in power see Iraq as a way of re-fighting the Vietnam war. They see it as a chance to redo a period of time at which American society, in their view, took a series of wrong turns. In that regard, they see this is a war over the very identity of America.

After watching and listening to politics over the past couple of years, I have come to this conclusion: the war in Iraq is not really about Iraq, it is about AMERICA. So again, let's say you are an Iraqi. It's no wonder you have a hard time understanding why we are there.

Yes, the problems in Iraq are immense, but they are a symptom of very severe political conflicts here at home. I have no idea where this will lead.




[edit on 7-10-2006 by Flatwoods]

You obviously don't care about the security of America and it's allies. Nor do you care about democracy, because if you did you'd support our brave soldiers who are fighting and dying in the name of freedom.

Of course I care about our security, I however don't cosider Iraq
to be a real threat.

And I believe democracy is the only right form of government,
so of course I care about democracy.

I support the troops, I don't support the war.

Do you think Iraq would be better off under Saddam Hussein? Would you rather have Iraq become a new home for terrorists?

Honestly, they were better off with him, yes there were abuses,
but there not anywhere near as bad as they are now.

We're breeding the terrorism there by being there.

That is the position of the radical left in America, the very same left who caused us to abandon South Vietnam in their time of need, the same left who brought us abortion, gay rights, and worst of all, Bill Clinton. In WWII, these people would have given up on the fight against Hitler after the first couple of thousand casualties.

Abortion is'nt bad.
You're a stupid ignorant jerk if you believe gay rights are bad to.
Bill Clinton may have had his flaws, but he was a good enough
president.

Comparing the war in Iraq to Hilter is completely ignoant and
erroneous.

I, on the other hand, support freedom, both here and in Iraq. Sure, go ahead, cut and run if that is your wish...but don't blame me when the terrorists come to behead you.

Idon't think we should just pick up and leave, but we need to start
leaving, and be out of therein five years.

And besides, ifthey become a bigf enough threat, we can always nuke them.

*Note: This is not the way I really feel about this issue. I posted it in the interest of stimulating discussion. In truth, I have very serious doubts about the war in Iraq, but I also listen to right-wing radio and felt the need to illustrate how the conservative right responds to criticism of the Bush administration.

Than post your opinion, not ignorant right-wing rhettoric.

[Honestly, they were better off with him, yes there were abuses,
but there not anywhere near as bad as they are now.]



Please do yourself a favor and read the history of the number of people Sadam tortured and killed before you post. Your hatred for George Bush is making you crazy and will ruin any point you try to make.
Also Abortion is bad when used for birth control or gender selection. If people would just take responsibility for their actions and use good prevention methods we would not have Abortion or Aids.

Originally posted by factfinder38
[Teerorist will always be present as long as there is oppression] quote

Statements like this just amaze me and I have seen them and heard them in many places by some badley misguided people.

Think about this,if you were to take 2 men with the same race and religion then give them all of the money and posesions they wanted what would happen?
At some point one will want what the other has or will think that the other got a better deal.

Thought about it. Are you saying that because that is what you'd do? Because if you truly are a fact finder, show me facts to back your position up. I can show hundreds of examples where oppression has breeded more terrorist.

AAC

Once again Rove manages to come up with a catch phrase used to set the American people against each other.

Mark my words. this administration has every intention to cut and run in 2008.

They will retire in lavish comfort for a job well done while those who empowered them
reap decades of profits from their actions.

The world will never be the same now that they have insured decades of reprisals.

It is you and me, our children and their children who will pay the price for what they have done.

Your misguided accusations that we do not support our troops is completely unfounded.
We want to bring these brave men and women home before any more lives are shattered.



BTW,

It's interesting that you claim to be a writer when your entire post seems to be a direct quote out of some
neo-con inspired training manual.










[edit on 7-10-2006 by FallenFromTheTree]

[edit on 7-10-2006 by FallenFromTheTree]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's obvious to me that some of you don't understand my intentions in posting the first comment on this page, so I ask that you please read ALL of my posts on this thread. And please remember, what you may consider ignorant right-wing rhetoric is what many people truly believe, and you'll be hearing a lot more of it if the Democrats win this November.

Originally posted by Flatwoods
Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's obvious to me that some of you don't understand my intentions in posting the first comment on this page, so I ask that you please read ALL of my posts on this thread. And please remember, what you may consider ignorant right-wing rhetoric is what many people truly believe, and you'll be hearing a lot more of it if the Democrats win this November.

You mean republicans right?

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

Originally posted by Flatwoods
Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's obvious to me that some of you don't understand my intentions in posting the first comment on this page, so I ask that you please read ALL of my posts on this thread. And please remember, what you may consider ignorant right-wing rhetoric is what many people truly believe, and you'll be hearing a lot more of it if the Democrats win this November.

You mean republicans right?

As I said, we'll be hearing a lot more of it if DEMOCRATS win this November, because pro-war conservatives are going to fight them tooth and nail. As I explained in my previous post, the Iraq debate involves much more than just Iraq - it goes to the very core of the neo-con belief system. I have no doubt that once the Dems get into power, they'll start holding hearings on whether or not to leave Iraq, but it's going to be a lot more difficult than they think. Many are under the impression that congress can simply kill funding for the war, but those who support the war will turn that initiative against them - by saying that to deny finding for the war is to deny funding to our troops, and then the debate will get REALLY nasty. Mark my words.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by Flatwoods]

Very clever Flatwoods.

Thanks for pointing out the right wing radio entertainers stance and talking points.

My only hope is that most people take that kind of hateful rhetoric with a grain of salt.

What am I talking about; most Americans don't have the capacity for critical thinking. They worship authority and are blind to its abuses. Sheep........baaabaaaa

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by whaaa]

You're a stupid ignorant jerk if you believe gay rights are bad to.
Bill Clinton may have had his flaws, but he was a good enough
president.

I don't think gay rights are bad. Not at all. As for Bill Clinton, I voted for him twice, and I'd do it again if it were a choice between him and George Bush.

Neo-cons, however, take quite a different view, and that was the whole point of my comment. I am trying to illustrate how this relates to their support of the war - namely that the view a successful win in Iraq as a way to achieve a number of broad-based political aims, not just defeating terrorism.

Let's face it, the left in America has been losing for the past twenty years - not because they're wrong, but because they spend too much time simply dismissing conservative rhetoric, instead of carefully examining the language that is used in order to counter it.

Please do yourself a favor and read the history of the number of people Sadam tortured and killed before you post.

I realise many people were killed under Sadaams reign, but things
have become even worse, and their are alot more human rights
violations, those being denying womens rights, killing people just
because they're homosexual etc.

Your hatred for George Bush is making you crazy and will ruin any point you try to make.

My dislike for Mr. Bush does'nt influence my opinion on the subject.

Also Abortion is bad when used for birth control or gender selection.

You're right, abortion is bad when it's used for gender selection,
what I meant is that in general abortion is'nt a bad thing.

If people would just take responsibility for their actions and use good prevention methods we would not have Abortion or Aids.

That's one of the most ridiculous and ignorant things I've ever heard.

Originally posted by Flatwoods
I don't think gay rights are bad. Not at all. As for Bill Clinton, I voted for him twice, and I'd do it again if it were a choice between him and George Bush.

Fine, and I'll say I did'nt read the very last part of your initial post until, until I was finishing up my own.

Let's face it, the left in America has been losing for the past twenty years - not because they're wrong, but because they spend too much time simply dismissing conservative rhetoric, instead of carefully examining the language that is used in order to counter it.

No they have'nt, democrats controlled the congress up until the mid
nineties, and that was only ten years ago.
And they'll most likely retake control of cngress this election.

But you're sort of right, they do need to not just name call.



May I suggestin the future if you intend on making a thread similiar to
this, you put the rhetoric in

This kind of box

, and state before
that your opinion, and tell peple that kind of thing before they read
the rhetoric.

You can support the troops without supporting the war. You can support the troops without supporting this administration foriegn policy.

That being said, there seems to be a little mind game playing going on here. Case in point:

I, on the other hand, support freedom, both here and in Iraq. Sure, go ahead, cut and run if that is your wish...but don't blame me when the terrorists come to behead you.

2 points. 1- like this is going to happen. 2- this coming from a Clinton supporter.

Originally posted by intrepid
You can support the troops without supporting the war. You can support the troops without supporting this administration foriegn policy.

That being said, there seems to be a little mind game playing going on here. Case in point:

I, on the other hand, support freedom, both here and in Iraq. Sure, go ahead, cut and run if that is your wish...but don't blame me when the terrorists come to behead you.

2 points. 1- like this is going to happen. 2- this coming from a Clinton supporter.

Mind games? Not really. You see, I live in Sacramento CA, and conservative radio is very popular in my town. The radio is filled with it, and I've also noticed that many of the same Republican talking points often repeated by Bush, Cheney, and other politicians had their origin on the conservative radio shows. I just thought it would be interesting to post some of the rhetoric here and see the responses.

Flatwoods you are obviously working under the premise that the alleged terrorist events in the USA and elsewhere were perpatrated by Al Qeada. Well there is still no proof behind who comitted 9/11, Bush has thwarted any attempt to find out who was really responsible. But lets use the official story, Bush and co said the terrorists were Saudi's, he also said that the US would attack any country that supports or perpatrates acts of terrorism.

Before Iraq2 Bush took every oppertunity in public speeches to blame Iraq for 9/11, and also claimed that Saddam had WMD's. Iraq did not attack Ameriica or the Uk and more importantly they did not have the capabilities to harm us. That was the reason for this war, it is an illegal war and its not about protecting your freedoms or the freedom of the Iraqi people.

Bush an co are lying to you now about Iran having nukes, Iran has not even got a nuclear power plant so how can they have nukes. They could only have them now if they tried to purchase them from Russia/China and as far as we know that has not happened. So are you now telling me that the US has a legitimate right to attack Iran, Iran has not attacked America and has no means of doing so. Even if Iran did have the capability the Iranian leaders know it would be suicide to attack the US.

And why do people such as you with your views think that Bush is right and anybody else who does not agree with his actions is not patriotic etc. Are you so blinded by the lies that you cannot see reality. How would you feel if another country was doing the same thing to the USA, would you say that the invading forces were right in freeing you from the tyranny of the Bush goverment.
And why do you say that if people do not support the war then ergo they dont support the troops. Well actually I think the people who dont agree with this war or the goverment probaly feel more strongly about the troops than you do because they know this war is wrong and these men are dying for lies and greed.