The Real Sin In Taking The "Mark of The Beast".

I am not going to be brave enough to insinuate that I am the only one with this opinion, I am sure there are others who feel somewhat the same, but this is my opinion about what the "sin" is of taking the "mark of the beast".
Firstly, I have noticed a lot of discussion on this board and over at ATS about the "end times" and the "mark," I figured I'd put my two cents in on the subject. This thread may be better suited for the "Conspiracies in Religion" forum, if so, you can move it over there.
Anyway, here it goes. In my honest opinion, there is actually two "sins" committed in taking the "mark of the beast." The first, and perhaps the most obvious, is the denial of God's kingdom for earthly things. Yes, taking the "mark of the beast" is an extremely materialistic act. It is basically a statement that you do not believe that there is anything, other than the present life, to look forward to.
Materialism is the worship of "mammon". Physical reality, at least in my opinion, is the manifestation of "mammon's" spirit. It is the matrix in which we live.
Secondly, the chip will inhibit the distribution of the drug produced in the pineal gland called dimethyltryptamine ('___'). For those of you who do not know what it is, here is a good place to start:

Dimethyltryptamine

This drug is what link humanity to the spiritual realms. Now, you do know that the bible not only speaks of the "mark of the beast" but also, "the mark of God," right? This "mark of God," in my opinion, is the presence of dimethyltryptamine in the brain. Of course, the chip will be designed to inhibit this drug.
The anti-Christ wouldn't want you seeing visions of his coming fall, now would he? With the drug being inhibited from the brain, you wouldn't have any spiritual notions at all. I seriously doubt that such individuals will even consider spiritual issues once implanted.

I have to say that i totally agree with you on this one. This is the best way i've heard this put, and is also very likely to happen.

Boo computer chips inside of people

Hooray '___'!

Since 2 things are historical factoids:
1) the coming return of Christ, and
2) the mark of the beast...

How are you or anyone else 100% certain that "chips" being "implanted" are the 'mark of the beast'?

There are religious counter theories that assert that the 'mark of the beast' is not an actual mark or implantation but is more symbolic in nature.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Since 2 things are historical factoids:
1) the coming return of Christ, and
2) the mark of the beast...

How are you or anyone else 100% certain that "chips" being "implanted" are the 'mark of the beast'?

There are religious counter theories that assert that the 'mark of the beast' is not an actual mark or implantation but is more symbolic in nature.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Seekerof]

Well, i'm pretty sure that sooner or later, somebody will try to put chips in us. That is a very bad thing and it will basically mean that if you take it, you are submitting your life to the govt. So be the mark symbolic or literal, chips still suck and i'm not getting one. I'm not claiming to be 100% certain that this would be the mark of the beast (i'm not even christian), i'm just saying that computer chips+people=

I'm not going to be a puppet for any govt.

but is more symbolic in nature.

Seekerof (maybe inadvertently) but most assuredly has brought up a good point. humans think they are so seperated from nature, they think they are not beasts?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In my honest opinion, there is actually two "sins" committed in taking the "mark of the beast."

you make it sound as though you'll have a choice?

in order for you to not accept the mark, then you will have to do 2 things.
1) lie to god.
2) lie to yourself.

The first, and perhaps the most obvious, is the denial of God's kingdom for earthly things.

but, you have already done that. for you to say otherwise is lying to yourself, and lying to god.

so, when the day of judgment comes, how are you going to lie to god, and to yourself to not put the label on your forehead?

what is the opposite of love?

hate, most people would say. most people who lie so much, they even lie to themselves.

how can hate be the opposite of love?

how can 1 justify hating without first fearing that they will lose something they love?

and, what is it people love?

they love 666.

1st love = Fear, the byproduct of "self pre-serve" aka "self before i serve".
2nd love = Food, needed for cellular reproduction.
3rd love = Family, as they nurtured you, and protected you, and helped hide you from your own fears, helped hide you from your first love.
4th love = Friends, as you felt a need to belong, and wanted to be accepted.
5th love = Fornication, you were curious about love, and this is the physical manifestation of love.
6th love = Finances, which provided you a means of control to obtain and keep more of the previous 4 loves, and helped you hide yourself from yourself by helping you hide from your fears.

what was the first commandment again? no gods before god, before truth. . ..

you chose 6 loves.

you chose 6 times, 6 loves that were not god.

all 6 of those loves begin with the 6th letter of the "ALL FIB I BET".

1=A 2=B 3=C 4=D 5=E 6=F

6 loves, chosen 6 times, beginning with the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet", all placed before the 7th letter, GOD's "G"!!

so what is it you fear losing that makes you mad?

you fear loosing 666.

and 666 is what you have loved before all else.

The anti-Christ wouldn't want you seeing visions of his coming fall, now would he?

can't seem to find one, nope, not one messenger from god in all the religions that did not say: "be not afraid"

With the drug being inhibited from the brain, you wouldn't have any spiritual notions at all. I seriously doubt that such individuals will even consider spiritual issues once implanted.

don't need any drug or inplant to inhibit man's brain. seems to me most of them so not even have the capacity to be truthfull to themselves as it is. always looking outwards for signs of conspiracies of the 666, and too scared to know themselves well enough to see they already worship what they love, and they love 666.

Implants, please. i guess you were not paying attention to your dna, or your cellular commands.

there is my two cents.



[edit on 4-10-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Since 2 things are historical factoids:
1) the coming return of Christ, and
2) the mark of the beast...

How are you or anyone else 100% certain that "chips" being "implanted" are the 'mark of the beast'?

There are religious counter theories that assert that the 'mark of the beast' is not an actual mark or implantation but is more symbolic in nature.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Seekerof]

The bible is quite explicit in it's portrayal that the "mark" will be "under the skin". Where are these "chips" selected to go? They go UNDER THE SKIN!!! That's enough for me to at least suggest the the "verichip" is the "mark of the beast".

[edit on 4-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
but is more symbolic in nature.

Seekerof (maybe inadvertently) but most assuredly has brought up a good point. humans think they are so seperated from nature, they think they are not beasts?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In my honest opinion, there is actually two "sins" committed in taking the "mark of the beast."

you make it sound as though you'll have a choice?

in order for you to not accept the mark, then you will have to do 2 things.
1) lie to god.
2) lie to yourself.

The first, and perhaps the most obvious, is the denial of God's kingdom for earthly things.

but, you have already done that. for you to say otherwise is lying to yourself, and lying to god.

so, when the day of judgment comes, how are you going to lie to god, and to yourself to not put the label on your forehead?

what is the opposite of love?

hate, most people would say. most people who lie so much, they even lie to themselves.

how can hate be the opposite of love?

how can 1 justify hating without first fearing that they will lose something they love?

and, what is it people love?

they love 666.

1st love = Fear, the byproduct of "self pre-serve" aka "self before i serve".
2nd love = Food, needed for cellular reproduction.
3rd love = Family, as they nurtured you, and protected you, and helped hide you from your own fears, helped hide you from your first love.
4th love = Friends, as you felt a need to belong, and wanted to be accepted.
5th love = Fornication, you were curious about love, and this is the physical manifestation of love.
6th love = Finances, which provided you a means of control to obtain and keep more of the previous 4 loves, and helped you hide yourself from yourself by helping you hide from your fears.

what was the first commandment again? no gods before god, before truth. . ..

you chose 6 loves.

you chose 6 times, 6 loves that were not god.

all 6 of those loves begin with the 6th letter of the "ALL FIB I BET".

1=A 2=B 3=C 4=D 5=E 6=F

6 loves, chosen 6 times, beginning with the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet", all placed before the 7th letter, GOD's "G"!!

so what is it you fear losing that makes you mad?

you fear loosing 666.

and 666 is what you have loved before all else.

The anti-Christ wouldn't want you seeing visions of his coming fall, now would he?

can't seem to find one, nope, not one messenger from god in all the religions that did not say: "be not afraid"

With the drug being inhibited from the brain, you wouldn't have any spiritual notions at all. I seriously doubt that such individuals will even consider spiritual issues once implanted.

don't need any drug or inplant to inhibit man's brain. seems to me most of them so not even have the capacity to be truthfull to themselves as it is. always looking outwards for signs of conspiracies of the 666, and too scared to know themselves well enough to see they already worship what they love, and they love 666.

Implants, please. i guess you were not paying attention to your dna, or your cellular commands.

there is my two cents.



[edit on 4-10-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

The only thing that you proved in your post is that you are a prime candidate for the "mark". You see, while some of what you stated is true, you fail to realize that man will have a choice. He will either put God almighty first, or he will choose "mammon," the god of the matrix. If you choose God Almighty, yes, you will be a "gypsy" and you will have to hide for a period of 3 and a half to seven years, depending on what you believe. Personally, I think the one world dictator will only flaunt his influence for three and a half years but some argue seven. I do not have the space nor the inclination to get into that here.

Anyway, what I gather from your post is that since we are in human form and we have already elected to take on a "strange flesh" we have alreaady rejected God. In a sense, you are correct. However, in order to get back to the Godhead, one has to rebuke the things of this "strange flesh". Taking the "mark" is not rebuking it but upholding it.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

The only thing that you proved in your post is that you are a prime candidate for the "mark". You see, while some of what you stated is true, you fail to realize that man will have a choice. He will either put God almighty first, or he will choose "mammon," the god of the matrix. If you choose God Almighty, yes, you will be a "gypsy" and you will have to hide for a period of 3 and a half to seven years, depending on what you believe. Personally, I think the one world dictator will only flaunt his influence for three and a half years but some argue seven. I do not have the space nor the inclination to get into that here.

man has had over 7,000 years to date of recorded history. in that 7,000 years, man has failed to produce 7 days devoid of war, killing, destruction, and all other negatives because of the cellular commands that lead us in a direction in which we love the things i have stated. and mankind wages war, and kills, and destroys to prevent loosing that which they love, the things i mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway, what I gather from your post is that since we are in human form and we have already elected to take on a "strange flesh" we have alreaady rejected God. In a sense, you are correct.

I know i am correct, but there are other definitions that will fit the mark, and it is never too late to reject fear for just one moment, and approach god with love, and with fear not fearing(for just 1 moment in time.)

However, in order to get back to the Godhead, one has to rebuke the things of this "strange flesh". Taking the "mark" is not rebuking it but upholding it.

the 666 i describe is simply a re-affirmation that mankind is not that far devorced from nature, and from god's grace and god's creation. it should be proof that we are still close to the kingdom of god's creation, and that we still have much in common with all sentiant life. if hate, and fear, and lonliness, and sadness can be recognized for what they are, and explained away with mere words of truth, then. .. ...

what is the opposite of a son?

what is the opposite of a son?

Ummm,a father,daughter? I don't get what you are trying to say there.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The bible is quite explicit in it's portrayal that the "mark" will be "under the skin". Where are these "chips" selected to go? They go UNDER THE SKIN!!!

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark."
(Rev. 13:16)

I don't see how you can say "under" for sure. It seems to me that this mark is going to be something visible. Maybe it's a cell-phone. The Apostle John saw people walking around with phones in their hand or pressed up against their head. This scenario is just as, if not more, probable than the verichip. It does sound as if technology of some sort is used here since it's tied to purchases, so we can rule out a simple tattoo.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The bible is quite explicit in it's portrayal that the "mark" will be "under the skin". Where are these "chips" selected to go? They go UNDER THE SKIN!!!

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark."
(Rev. 13:16)

I don't see how you can say "under" for sure. It seems to me that this mark is going to be something visible. Maybe it's a cell-phone. The Apostle John saw people walking around with phones in their hand or pressed up against their head. This scenario is just as, if not more, probable than the verichip. It does sound as if technology of some sort is used here since it's tied to purchases, so we can rule out a simple tattoo.

Well, you see, the problem is it all depend on what translation of the bible you have as to what the actual wording is. For example, the wording in the KJV versions is not the same as the wording in say the NIV version. I also got a little carried away. I don't think scripture actually states under but in the hand or forehead, which certainly implies under the surface.

[edit on 4-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 4-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Here is an example of what I am referring to:

The Bible Version Debate
(Which one is best?)
A "Short Series" Teaching by Pastor Dick Helms March 28, 2002

It may surprise some of you to hear that after years of study and seeking God on the issue, I personally now use a New King James Version Open Bible for my personal studies and in my preaching. Why? Well first of all I am convinced that the Texus Receptus is the most valid source text. Next, Since I have difficulty reading and understanding the Archaic King James English it is the only available choice, and the Open Bible notes are a fine assist in preaching and teaching.

Now, that said, I was saved while reading the NIV and grew to Christian maturity using an NIV Study Bible. I still think that the NIV Study Bible notes are one of the finest sets of Evangelical study notes in publication today. In fact I strongly recommend that young Christians begin their personal studies using the NIV Study Bible while anchoring it to the KJV (or NKJV) where debatable issues are involved and with very careful attention to the footnotes. Unlike many I do not believe that there is an underlying socio-political agenda at work in the newer Evangelical translations such as the NIV and NASB, at least not as it was originally published. I personally know individuals that were part of the translation team for the NIV (the family of the Sr Greek scholar on the team, Dr. Steven Paine). They are truly Godly folks who are truly seeking to bring God's word to the world in a readable and understandable venue. Did they choose the wrong source text? probably, but not out of some evil socio-political agenda. Their true goal was to present God's word as accurately as possible. In spite of what many KJV only proponents teach, the differences between the texts is quite small and in fact does NOT materially affect the message of the Gospel. ("Proof Texting" is not a valid method of Bible study, nor is it a valid method of judging a Bible version.) To say otherwise is to say that God is not able to keep (protect) His Word. Think about it.

In contrast, I do believe that the newer Ecumenical translations such as the New Revised Standard Version and the updated NIV (aka: TNIV or "Today's New International Version") do carry a distinctive socio-political agenda arising primarily from the Radical Feminist and Gay Activist agendas. Extreme caution is called for in their use even in comparative studies. Like in all things involving the Christian life, discernment in choosing a translation is appropriate. However, God can and does use them all in changing lives. To teach that only one particular translation is usable by God is to put God in a box and limit Him to our own comprehension of Him. (We then create God in our own image.) Something we must never do.

Bible Translations

[edit on 4-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 4-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Well if we trace this back to the earlist Greek translations (Way before King James) we are still presented with the same problem. The Greek word is epi which is transalted as "on" 196 times, "in" 120 times, "upon" 159 times, "unto" 41 times, and as "to" 41 times. There are a few more misc. translations for this word, but I think we can see how no one can say for sure what it is. The number of times this is translated as something applied to a surface way outweights the number of times we see this as putting something in.

I know this all sounds petty to some, but I think in this case it's slightly important to not rule out one scenario or the other. I'm just saying don't be dead-set on it being implanted "in" the hand or forehead and don't bank 100% on it being "on" the hand or forehead. It would probably be best to say the mark is applied to the hand or forehead. I can just see someone saying "Sure I'll take this stamp on my hand (the surface) becuase it's not in my hand like the Bible said".


Knowledge is power. (my source for this knowledge. It's Greek to me)

[edit on 4-10-2006 by dbates]

Originally posted by dbates
I know this all sounds petty to some, but I think in this case it's slightly important to not rule out one scenario or the other. I'm just saying don't be dead-set on it being implanted "in" the hand or forehead and don't bank 100% on it being "on" the hand or forehead. It would probably be best to say the mark is applied to the hand or forehead. I can just see someone saying "Sure I'll take this stamp on my hand (the surface) becuase it's not in my hand like the Bible said".


Knowledge is power.

(my source for this knowledge. It's Greek to me)

[edit on 4-10-2006 by dbates]

It's not petty at all because if we have no real concept of what is said, then we are in the dark when it comes. I personally feel like most translations, including the KJV, are political translations of the bible. I have let it be known that I firmly believe that TPTB has manipulated the bible to suit its own pursuits, if you will.

With that being said, I also believe that much of the bible is symbolic rather than literal. However, when it quite explicitly states that the "beast" will present a "mark", at least in my opinion, it should be considered a literal mark.

There are several theories about what the "mark" is. For a while, most were convinced that it was going to be a bar code. Which is a mark that is certainly visible. I have heard people say that the verichip doesn't leave a mark. It most certainly DOES!!! On the people who have already elected to take the chip there is a scar where the chip was implanted.

(KJV) Revelation 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Originally posted by Seekerof
How are you or anyone else 100% certain that "chips" being "implanted" are the 'mark of the beast'?

There are religious counter theories that assert that the 'mark of the beast' is not an actual mark or implantation but is more symbolic in nature.

Seekerof raised a good point here; older eschatologies (and less popular current ones) view the "mark" in a symbolic sense, the hand signifying cooperation or assent to something. In this version, the forehead represents an actual "true believer", while the hand alone represents cooperation from fear.

You guys sound like you are probably familiar with this eschatology but I just thought I would reinject it into the debate.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

what is the opposite of a son?

Ummm,a father,daughter? I don't get what you are trying to say there.

if all foul emotions. .. . .
if all evil emotions .. . . ..
if all the negative can be explained away and acknowledged, and recognized, and accepted for what it is ... .

if all attributes acreditted to satan, the devil, and lucifer can be isolated and explained in lamens terms for what the attributes truly are, without deceptions ...

then does the anti-christ have to be one who opposes god, or the son?

does the anti-christ have to serve evil if evil is seen for what evil is?

does the anti-christ have to be in conflict with christ?

or does the anti-christ have to be the opposite of a son of god?
or does the anti-christ have to be the opposite of the son of man?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Seekerof

There are religious counter theories that assert that the 'mark of the beast' is not an actual mark or implantation but is more symbolic in nature.

The bible is quite explicit in it's portrayal that the "mark" will be "under the skin". Where are these "chips" selected to go? They go UNDER THE SKIN!!! That's enough for me to at least suggest the the "verichip" is the "mark of the beast".

our dna is under our skin.

our dna has provided us with our first loves, all our first loves were all put before our love of the first commandment, for we all put those loves before god.

fear, food, family, friends, fornication, finances
6 alphas are 6 "F"s. F is the 6th letter of the "all fib i bet".
6 times 6 "F"s chosen 6 times prior to the love of the first commandment.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
This drug is what link humanity to the spiritual realms. Now, you do know that the bible not only speaks of the "mark of the beast" but also, "the mark of God," right?

Could you give the Bible references for the mark of God you are talking about?

Rev.16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

It appears that the mark of the beast will have a spiritual aspect to it also. So I believe it will be very clear, that to choose to accept the mark of the beast, means you are rejecting Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
This drug is what link humanity to the spiritual realms. Now, you do know that the bible not only speaks of the "mark of the beast" but also, "the mark of God," right?

Could you give the Bible references for the mark of God you are talking about?

Rev.16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

It appears that the mark of the beast will have a spiritual aspect to it also. So I believe it will be very clear, that to choose to accept the mark of the beast, means you are rejecting Jesus Christ.

Yeah,you are rejecting him in favor of materialism,mammon.

Scripture referring to the Mark of God:

Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Here is the mark of Satan:

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Also, here is a site that deals with the subject of God's mark and Satan's:

Mark Of God

[edit on 10-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]