Racial Issues Not Always Tied to Black and White

It would appear that racism is not always the "Black-White" issue some would have us believe.

For centuries, the South has been defined by the color line and the struggle for accommodation between blacks and whites. But the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Hispanic immigrants over the past decade is quietly changing the dynamics of race relations in many Southern towns.
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Blacks here, who had settled into a familiar, if sometimes uneasy, relationship with whites, are now outnumbered by Hispanics. The two groups, who often live and work side by side, compete fiercely for working-class jobs and government resources. By several measures, blacks are already losing ground.

The jobless rate for black men in Georgia is nearly triple that of Hispanic men, labor statistics show. More blacks than Hispanics fail to meet minimum standards in Atkinson County public schools. And many blacks express anguish at being supplanted by immigrants who know little of their history and sometimes treat them with disdain as they fill factory jobs, buy property, open small businesses and scale the economic ladder.
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Some Hispanics say African-Americans treat them with hostility and disparage them with slurs, even though blacks know the sting of racism all too well. They say many blacks are jealous of their progress and resent the fact that whites, who dominate the business sector, look increasingly to Hispanics to fill work forces. Blacks say employers favor immigrants because they work for less money.
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The killing of six Mexican farm workers in a robbery last year in Tifton, about 30 miles away — and the arrest of four black men in the case — has heightened the friction. Nothing so violent has occurred here, but some Hispanics say black criminals focus on immigrants in this town, too.

Speaking of blacks, Benito González, 51, a Mexican who has worked alongside them at a poultry plant, said: “They don’t like to work, and they’re always in jail. If there’s hard work to be done, the blacks, they leave and they don’t come back. That’s why the bosses prefer Mexicans and why there are so many Mexicans working in the factories here.”
Hispanic and Black Racism

Also here are some supporting news stories..

Mexican Racism
More than Black and White

This and similar situations are happening all over the country. It is apparent that the phenomenon that is often touted as "American Racism" is not so exclusive to the "Dominant Culture" as is so often espoused.

Semper

[edit on 10/3/2006 by semperfortis]

[edit on 10/3/2006 by semperfortis]

Just for you

BH

Semper

[edit on 10/3/2006 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Just for you BH

Thanks for fixing the link. I just hate to scroll side-to-side to read an article!

Very interesting article. And very sad. I have always been aware that the race issues in this country aren't just between black and white people. I live in the southwest where the Mexican population is fairly high. I don't see much racism here. There is some. Some ignorance and some segregation, but overall it's pretty harmonious here. I think it's known that if you don't like Mexicans, you shouldn't move to the southwest.

But Georgia is another matter. Many years ago, when I lived in the south (Biloxi, Miss) there was very little Hispanic population there so I didn't see it then either. But I can understand the tension over jobs and caring for one's family.

Unfortunately, the illegal immigration dilemma only adds to these negative feelings.

Too sad. :shk:

Racial issues are certainly much more than a black & white issue.

In one of my classes the other day, we were having a discussion about segregation in the U.S. and how far things of come. That racism is a problem that we no longer have to face, and that whites and blacks and coincide without any improper thoughts.

My response was, Wooptee Doo!

I proposed this question to the class;

In the 60's, some whites were uncomfortable sitting next to a black person on the bus. Today you probably would not. However, if you were sitting next to a Muslim on an airplane would you feel uncomfortable.

Most people would say yes.

Sure we have come a long way in white on black racial issues, but I strongly feel we have simply began to point the finger at somebody else.

Whether it be Muslim, Islamic, Mexican, English, etc., a large population have prejudicial thoughts. They come to conclusions based on ridiculous stereotypes.

Nobody is to be painted with the same brush here, but it is a sad story that we can not judge an individual on their own merit.

Blacks are not bad people because they are black. Muslims are not bad people because they are Muslim. Each category has its heros and bad apples, we are no different.

Great Thread Semper!

Well, if the rate of immigration continues, it will only be about one generation's time before Hispanics outnumber Whites and become the Dominant Culture.

So I have that to look forward to. No more blaming me for everything.

Sorry, I'm just in one of those sarcastic moods today...

Originally posted by chissler
That racism is a problem that we no longer have to face, and that whites and blacks and coincide without any improper thoughts.

You haven't been reading some of the race threads, then.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Sorry, I'm just in one of those sarcastic moods today...

Hey, that just proves it happens to the best.
.................

If you have a race, you've probably experienced racism. In places where there is any kind of competition for jobs or money or prestige, if there are 2 races, there will be racism. If there are 2 classes, there will be classism. If there are 2 religions, there will be religionism. That's the nature of the beast.

The Roots of Racism: A Conversation with Alex Haley

If you think about it, there’s not a religious group, there’s not a nationalistic group, there’s not a tribe, there is no grouping of people to my knowledge, of any consequence, who have not, at one or another time, been the object of hatred, racism, or who has not had people against them just because they were them.
...
Most of the people I’ve met, who are black, in other countries, look up to the blacks in this country, though they may talk differently, they are anxious to partake of this country, simply because things in their country are not physically on par with what they are here.

The things we are able to achieve here, our potential here far surpasses what blacks are able to achieve in other countries. So it’s a question, I suppose, of being critical that your country and its culture are not what they could be.

It could always be better and we should strive to be better, but racism will always exist. And thinking that racism can ONLY happen white on black is just not seeing the big picture. It's just closing one's mind to focus on a small part of the problem.

When I moved to Georgia and this town Hispanics were a present but a minority, everybody here thought that any Spanish was a Mexican.

Crime was limited to black or white gangs and petty crimes.

After ten years living in this town Hispanics have grown considerably now most of the crime involves a Latino in one way or another.

This is no only affecting the Latino communities as a whole but also me as a Spanish person.

Then can you blame me for becoming out spoken to that fact and be very upset about what the growing population of Latinos are bringing to the town?

No, the racial problems are no limited to black or white.

The problem with the Latinos and blacks is the competition for jobs and for government help, low income housing and others.

I covered the Tifton issue in a thread during the events, I knew one of the ladies marry to one of the man attacked through my days in the school system.

It was a sad event.

Someone should link Ceci here, so that she can see that racism exist even when you remove the dominant "white" culture.

SHOCKING!!!


Semper

I don't see many Mexicans around where I live, unless I go to Walmart on a Friday, usually the 3rd of the month .. it seems thats the day all Mexicans get paid.. I dunno..

Anyways, the one immigrant worker I had talked to through broken english worked at a bank where I worked, she cleaned the offices, was 18 or 19 I forget. She was from Guatamala (sp?) though not Mexican. She had some not - so - nice things to say about the two blacks that worked with her, who where eventually fired for drinking hard licquor out of a gatorade bottle.. the reasons she gave was that they where loud, rude and never came to work or when they did, did not work as hard as they should. Of course, she might have delt with a small portion of maybe a few people, and working class. The thing I see odd about it all is Mexicans have created for themselves the impression that they are hard workers who work honest hours for less then desierable wages, where as blacks seem to have created the complete opposite for themselves. How did that happen? Have a repair job? Need a new roof? Need new landscaping? Call a Mexican right? Not call a black man.. About when did that happen or is it because white racism created that persona instead of say blacks "earning" it?

Also, Marge.. Why are Mexicans called Latino when they are in no way Latin? Since you your self are Latino do Mexicans see a difference in race in themselves, such as white-mexican mixed black-mexican mixed or I suppose "Mexican" is really "Indian" no?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Why are Mexicans called Latino when they are in no way Latin? Since you your self are Latino do Mexicans see a difference in race in themselves, such as white-mexican mixed black-mexican mixed or I suppose "Mexican" is really "Indian" no?

Central America is alternately, or used to be, known as Latin America. I think it stems from the fact that Spanish is a Romance language, all of which are derived from Latin.

Language, more than culture, defines the terms Latino and Hispanic.

That has been my observation, at any rate.

Gee...a thread about racism that doesn't place the blame squarely on me as a white male? If only by implication. No, it can't be...

Well I looked again, and bygolly, it's true...

Semper. Hope you got your flame proof undies on....

Racists come in all shapes, sizes, and shockingly enough, colors. Huh...whodda thunk it? Most of us who live in the real world have seen it, and do what we can to combat it. It's always going to be with us in one shape or another.

I think it stems from the fact that Spanish is a Romance language, all of which are derived from Latin.

Language, more than culture, defines the terms Latino and Hispanic.

Correct GP


Seagull,

Didn't you know, I'm flame retarded.... or is it retardant? Works both ways for me...LOL

I have always figured the truth will get out anyway, no matter who it upsets.

What one finds strangely missing here, are the radical poster(s) currently shouting indignations on the other race threads.

Perhaps not fitting into their "mold" of typical racism, makes this an unworthy thread.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Someone should ......

I triple dog dare you!

Originally posted by semperfortis
the radical poster(s) currently shouting indignations on the other race threads.

Well you see semper .. this IS NOT slugfest. The same insults and misrepresentations that go on over in slugfest would earn warnings and bannings here.



Seriously ... the race thing can be tied to the religion thing too. When i had the unfortunate expreience of being stuck in Alabama for 9 years most of the native folks there hated the Hispanics who were moving in, not because they were brown, but because they were all Catholic... and Catholics are all going to hell ya' know *sarcasm intended*.

Edited to add - 'native folks' - as in those OF ALL COLORS who have lived there for a generation or two. There were a lot of NEW people living in the Huntsville area from other parts of the country. They (we) didn't hate hispanic people. The only hate I saw was from the natives. That doesn't mean that was all that there was ... I'm just saying that's what I saw.

Edited to add - BTW .. I'm (mostly) Catholic so I was one of the hated.




[edit on 10/4/2006 by FlyersFan]

ya'll ever see the hate pamphlets from Jack Chick??? Here are a few - www.chick.com...
Talk about ignorance and pushing hate! And these are VERY popular down in Alabama.

Seriously ... the race thing can be tied to the religion thing too. When i had the unfortunate expreience of being stuck in Alabama for 9 years most of the native folks there hated the Hispanics who were moving in, not because they were brown, but because they were all Catholic... and Catholics are all going to hell ya' know *sarcasm intended*.

RIGHT ON FF

How many years did the Protestants and Catholics kill each other? Why? Because one kneels all the time and one doesn't? (OK, Everyone laugh)

Look at what the Jews experience!! How do you tell if someone is a jew unless they tell you? Yet once some people know, they all of a sudden start hating them.

Go Figure...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Look at what the Jews experience!!

Look at a bunch of experiences ... Here are some 'hate crime' stats from the FBI
www.fbi.gov...

Suspected Offender's Race Number of Known Offenders Total 8,433
White 4,991
Black 2,253
American Indian/Alaskan Native 45
Asian/Pacific Islander 211
Multi-Racial Group 318
Unknown 615

I didn't see latino listed.

[edit on 10/4/2006 by FlyersFan]

You know what I think FF?

I think part of the reason the other thread is kept so ridiculously hateful, is the recent rejection for a forum of race. That is one reason I stopped among others.

Just my thoughts on why this thread generates less interest as well.

Semper

[edit on 10/4/2006 by semperfortis]

Every race suffers from racism. Where I live, the Asians and the First Nations get it the worst. People get mad at the First Nations for getting free stuff from the government (which they deserve) and they don't like the Asians because some of them seem to have a better work ethic and make a lot of money.

It's an interesting topic here, but is it neccessary to discuss other posters who aren't posting in the thread? Personally, if it were me you were discussing, I would be extremely offended. Even though it's not me you're talking about, I find it disturbing enough to stick my nose in and come up with something relevant to add to the discussion, just so I could say 'How rude!'.

If you want to know why ceci won't post in this forum, ask ceci. It has nothing to do with any of the reasons you have ascribed to her.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I didn't see latino listed.

FF, I don't know if you saw the thread that Semper put out on ATS on this issue, with the latino category leaving one of the documents used to report. It now put the latino race with the white race.

Semper, did you ever get to the bottom of that? I know you had made some calls, and some didn't really want to talk about it.

I'll feel safer talking about all this here, where posts can be governed with more appropriate rules. Thanks for starting the thread, Semp.

I was discussing this with a neighbor today, as a law was passed in the parish next to Orleans, that is requiring renters to be blood relatives of the landlord. This is at a time when latino families were moving in (and omg! paying their rent) to be closer to sites that they are working at. Then this new law came in to play. Talk about verging on unconstitutional, imo. Would they swab the prospective tenant first to verify? There is tons of talk about this being used to keep other races out of an area. A great defense in today's editorial by one woman was "We're not racist, we have tons of blacks living in the eastern part of the parish!" I think she failed to see the irony of her defense.

Here is the link to the story: Nola.com Article

Erm.. that is about the lawsuit, but it does cover both sides. I will look for the original.

t's an interesting topic here, but is it neccessary to discuss other posters who aren't posting in the thread? Personally, if it were me you were discussing, I would be extremely offended.

Completely my fault and done in the heat of the moment and I profusely apologize and have edited and removed the reference!!!

Semper, did you ever get to the bottom of that? I know you had made some calls, and some didn't really want to talk about it.

Thank NB, And no, the only answer the FBI has is that it is "Procedure." We all know what that means.... RIGHT!!

I did check with a couple dozen different departments in four states and they all keep and submit Hispanic Statistics, they also were wondering why that never gets reported. It is apparently a Fed. Level option and not for lowly little State Level people like me.

Semper