Why there were no planes at the WTC

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So if the fires were not hot enough to melt the steel where did the molten steel in the basements of the buildings come from.

Was there in fact molten steel? It was molten metal...my understanding was that there were no tests done on the molten metal to determine what exactly was smoldering.

If it were steel... we talked in the past about what the temperature would have been to cause that...and what effect that would have on the hydraulics of the heavy equipment that was moving it. Any takers on this??

all i know about the heat of the debris pile at GZ was from a firefighter i talked to that was working on it a few days after 911. he was a reinforcement from buffalo NY and he said it was hot enough that their boots would melt even a few days after. (not instantly of course but as they worked they would start to melt.)

all i know and no, i have no "proof" of this, it was at a DOJ class on terrorism in 02

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So if the fires were not hot enough to melt the steel where did the molten steel in the basements of the buildings come from.

Was there in fact molten steel? It was molten metal...my understanding was that there were no tests done on the molten metal to determine what exactly was smoldering.

If it were steel... we talked in the past about what the temperature would have been to cause that...and what effect that would have on the hydraulics of the heavy equipment that was moving it. Any takers on this??

Well here are some reports about molten steel in the debris.

911research.wtc7.net...

The president of Tully Construction of Flushing, NY, said he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at Ground Zero. Bollyn also cites Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, MD, as having seen molten steel in the bottoms of elevator shafts "three, four, and five weeks" after the attack.

A report on the Government Computer News website quotes Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc. as stating:

In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel 3 �

A Messenger-Inquirer report recounts the experiences of Bronx firefighter "Toolie" O'Toole, who stated that some of the beams lifted from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero by cranes were "dripping from the molten steel."

A member of the New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6. He kept a journal on which an article containing the following passage is based.

Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots. 9 �

A report in the Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine about recovery work in late October quotes Alison Geyh, Ph.D., as stating:

Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.

Here are some photos showing hot molten steel and how hot the debris was that they are spraying the debris and the equipment with water.

www.physics.byu.edu...

i114.photobucket.com...


[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 16-12-2006 by ULTIMA1]

Thanks Ultima... I have never seen the quotes from the CD experts. I have seen the quotes from the firemen and didn't take what they said as Gospel.

I'd like to read into this more and see what the explinations are to this. Thanks again

Bollyn also cites Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, MD, as having seen molten steel in the bottoms of elevator shafts "three, four, and five weeks" after the attack

Umm, Mr. Loizeaux has been contacted about this and issued this reply...

I didn't personally see molten steel at the World Trade Center site. It was reported to me by contractors we had been working with. Molten steel was encountered primarily during excavation of debris around the South Tower when large hydraulic excavators were digging trenches 2 to 4 meters deep into the compacted/burning debris pile. There are both video tape and still photos of the molten steel being "dipped" out by the buckets of excavators. I'm not sure where you can get a copy. Sorry I cannot provide personal confirmation. Regards, Mark Loizeaux,

His sister's, friend's boyfriend told him so..........

Thanks for everyone! It was very interesting!


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[email protected]

Well once again the so called "TRUTH SEEKERS" change quotes to fit their agenda.

Thanks Swamp.... i should have looked into it myself.

As G Dubya said.... : Fool me once....er um.. shame on you..You fool me...well.. you dont get fooled again.

Originally posted by CameronFox
Well once again the so called "TRUTH SEEKERS" change quotes to fit their agenda.

Thanks Swamp.... i should have looked into it myself.

As G Dubya said.... : Fool me once....er um.. shame on you..You fool me...well.. you dont get fooled again.

I did not change the quotes and i certainly did not change the photos or videos.

How much more do you want to see. I can provide more if you like.

Ultima...

Sorry dude I wasnt saying you changed the quotes. Alot of these 911 "truth" sites OFTEN embelish their stories to make them sound better.

I'm also NOT saying that their wasnt any molten steel. IT certainly looks like it to me...but im no expert.



[edit on 16-12-2006 by CameronFox]

Originally posted by CameronFox
Ultima...

Sorry dude I wasnt saying you changed the quotes. Alot of these 911 "truth" sites OFTEN embelish their stories to make them sound better.

I'm also NOT saying that their wasnt any molten steel. IT certainly looks like it to me...but im no expert.



[edit on 16-12-2006 by CameronFox]

Ok, i don't know if you have seen this video but it show just how hot the debris field was anad the fire chief says it was at least 1500 degrees and red /orange hot in side.

www.youtube.com...

Also i have e-mailed Controlled Demolition Inc. to get some feed back

Dear Everybody:

I still owe CameronFox a retort on the flight AA11 passenger list discussion, i.e. SSDI versus actual 9-11 victims’ fund compensation issue. I haven’t forgotten, or wimped-out.
But in the meantime, I simply have to post this info about the possibility of holograms.

Excerpt from article written on 31-Jul-2002 by the granddaddy of investigative reporters, the late Sherman Skolnick:
A highly secret unit of the U.S. Military and the National Reconnaissance Office, NRO, has developed holographic projection. That is, in simple terms, images of supposed moving and flying devices are inserted in the skies and clouds, or upon the same. Most every eyewitness would swear under oath, that they saw a real "thing". An "enemy" army can be ordered to surrender by a Deity speaking to them from a cloud (by holographic magic) ordering them to lay down their arms.

Controlling satellites for military, media, and communications purposes, has been the NRO. Until several years ago, it was forbidden for the monopoly press to even confirm the existence of the NRO. A huge super-secret facility near the Capitol has been built for NRO costing more than 300 million dollars. This, without members of Congress on any budget committee knowing of the project or at least, denying that they know. [A story for another time is how key members of the House and the Senate are stooges for the secret political police.]
www.skolnicksreport.com...

This man has almost never been wrong. Sometimes he misses things in his reports, but from what I have seen he is never totally off-base. As you can tell I’m a great fan. I think he’s one of the greatest Americans ever.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

Wizard - interesting read but....

This man has almost never been wrong

'Almost never' is pretty important.

Since I am not familar with this individual or his work, what has he been 'right' about?

They must have hidden gigantic speakers around downtown also....because not only did I see the planes, I heard them too.

How was the NRO able to trick the radar towers into thinking that air planes were flying?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by ferretman2]

Hi ferret

well I've just checked out this guys site. He has an article saying this:

"The British Monarchy, carrying out their anti-U.S. Constitution policies, have set about to effectively dismember, dismantle, and discredit the American Central Government in Washington"

Here's the article The Breakaway States in America

Now if this guy is as good he is being portrayed, how come he's so way out on this?

By his reckoning Britain has the influence and power to destroy the USA!!!

Something the Soviet Union failed to do !

The last time I looked there were still US military bases in the UK. Not as many as during the Cold War, but still there.

How many British military bases are there in the USA?

Britain is still paying back the US loans that they took out during the Second World War!!

And this guy reckons Britain is secretly plotting to re establish a colonial system in the USA!!

Give me a break!!

Personally having read this article, I doubt very much that he is "on the money" about anything!

I dont know where he gets his "facts" from, but it aint from reality!

cheers

beagle

Originally posted by ferretman2
Wizard - interesting read but....
How was the NRO able to trick the radar towers into thinking that air planes were flying?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by ferretman2]

Very easily, we have alot of aircraft and drones that can plant false blips on radar.

reply to post by brainsucker


So the thousands of people on the ground in New York imagined the planes hitting the towers? With the transparent plane consider the quality of the video.

Originally posted by the smoking beagle

By his reckoning Britain has the influence and power to destroy the USA!!!

The last time I looked there were still US military bases in the UK. Not as many as during the Cold War, but still there.

Britain is still paying back the US loans that they took out during the Second World War!!

And this guy reckons Britain is secretly plotting to re establish a colonial system in the USA!!

I dont know where he gets his "facts" from, but it aint from reality!

cheers

beagle

read and learn

1997 was the year the queen took control of the american social security system.



[edit on 13-9-2007 by billybob]

Your hypothesis is like saying a bullet will bounce off of human skin...it's rather uneducated, but I like how you showed us an irrelevant 5th grade physics problem to solve a very complicated physics process that happened...and it seems the plane sliced through the building...Nice try, but maybe make it to high school physics before making claims.

[edit on 17-11-2007 by yellowcard]

There never were Twin Towers. They were just holograms. They'd planned & set in motion that false flag decades ago culminating in the 9/11 holographic movie. The debris there was just planted and the victims were just accident victims from all over then were dumped there. The same was done for the other two sites.

Originally posted by reject

There never were Twin Towers. They were just holograms. They'd planned & set in motion that false flag decades ago culminating in the 9/11 holographic movie. The debris there was just planted and the victims were just accident victims from all over then were dumped there. The same was done for the other two sites.

Nearly there, but the rabbit hole goes deeper. New York doesn't actually exist - it's been CGI all these years.

I tried to buy some flights to New York the other day and the salesperson just laughed at me. Admittedly I was in a deli at the time, but I think the point still stands.

Originally posted by pinner99
So the thousands of people on the ground in New York imagined the planes hitting the towers? With the transparent plane consider the quality of the video.

Thousands of people saw different things, like no windows on the planes, no airliner paint or logo, even a missile.