Al-Qaeda calls Bush 'Failure'

Originally posted by semperfortis
Because your honest.

Thank you. It's nice to hear that on occasion. I try to be anyways...

Originally posted by semperfortis
Something sadly missing on some of the threads we have been frequenting together...

Quite true.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am much in line with you, with a few exceptions. I support President Bush and do not have the conviction that you have that he has lied as many of his opponents would have us believe.

Fair enough. I don't believe in all that his opponents assert either. But there is enough I do believe in for me to withhold my support nonetheless.

I admittedly vacillate between an explanation of pure incompetence to something altogether more sinister. Frankly, I'm still struggling with that one.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am however skeptical of many conspiracies. (comes with the job)

I am too.

But I'm open to the possibility.

Let's face it. For the last 6000 years of recorded history, man has NEVER really gotten this governance thing quite right. Is it the height of arrogance to believe we finally have the secret sauce right this time? That we are immune from the perils of the past?

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am becoming more and more disillusioned especially after the Immigration fiasco, and WHAT IS ALL THIS SPENDING!!!! You would think Kennedy is back in office... LOL

Not just the spending....the graft....the waste!

Originally posted by semperfortis
Though I feel it is necessary right now, I do not like that the "Patriot Act" has very limited provisions for timetables set to dismantle the act upon congressional determination of closure. Scary....

What I find scary is the lack of accountability.

I really have no concern about being monitored to determine if I mean harm to others or am committing a crime. BUT I do have concern for whether that will be all the monitoring is used for!

History teaches all about government abuses of power. THAT scares the hell out of me!

Originally posted by semperfortis
Again, flexing of big government muscle. Again, more scary..

Exactly.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I guess it is my nature to be a servant to my country, and that is why I maintain much of my loyalty.

Loyalty to our country is a far cry from loyalty to a party.

I'm an American, and will remain loyal to her for as long as she remains loyal to the principles of freedom, prosperity, fairness, honesty and compassion.

Those are American values worth fighting for... If ever she fully leaves them, I'd fight for their return until my last breath on earth.

*loam's drama moment concludes*




[edit on 1-10-2006 by loam]

I can't say that I always vote the party line though generally speaking I tend to agree with the Democrats more than the Libiterians (who have become republican lite) or the Republicans....I come out of the "Mother Jones" and "In These Times" left of the late 60's and 70's if that gives you an idea of my politics.

The only Republican I have ever voted for is the late Rev. Noel Taylor, long time mayor (20+ years) of Roanoke Va. He was a good and decent man who did a lot for ALL this city which the current leaders have failed to emulate.

I have voted for several independants but only one for president, John Anderson in 1980. Ross Parrot made me either want to wuff my cookies or pee myself laughing....neither reaction encouraged me to vote for him.

I agree most with Ralph Nader and the Greens though I refuse to vote for him, he simply doesn't have the experince and at this stage of the game I hate to waste my vote.

So I vote democratic though I am far more liberal than any recent member in congress. I like Bernie Sanders of Vt. and I was really impressed with the late Paul Wellstone, and would have backed him for president.

Sadly I have come to hate voting but still do it, instead of voting for someone I believe will do a good job, I end up voting against either a party controlled by extremists (the hard right of the republcians whom I vehemently disagree with) or voting against some numb nut. I have come to realize that beyond voting for the lessor of two evils we have been saddled with the evil of two lessors. Hense the OBA Semper, or better a clothespin on my nose.

A short story:

Last year I got a phone call from a woman asking me to take part in a political poll...bored I said OK. They then asked me who I was more likely to vote for Tim Kaine (D) for governor or Jerry Kilgore (R). I said Kaine. They then asked me which were the most important issues for me as a voter...and then gave me a list that included protecting marriage between a man and a woman, protecting 2nd amendment rights, cutting taxes, restricting abortion and so on...all very conservative agenda items each one. I said none of the above. The woman was shocked and asked what did I consider the most important issue then. So I said "Whether the candidate could effectively govern or not." The woman flustered that the poll had been paid for by the Kilgore campaign and promptly hung up on me.

HOW dare I actually be interested in whether the candidate could actually govern well...she probably gave my name to homeland secuirty.

Lol first page post said 4,000 deaths of insurgents in Iraq since 2003...

Well first of all not every terrorist organisation in Iraq is linked and therefore do not report deaths to each other.

The last official estimate of insurgent casualties was somewhere around 22,000

They killed over 1500 at Fallujah in 2004 alone... you're stupid to think 4,000 mate.

Yeah DF

We were simply moving past the numbers that wind up exaggerated on here. The direction of the exaggeration depends on the poster. LOL

Yet, your observation is 100% correct.

Semper

How nice . . . as soon elections of some kind are around the corner . . . everybody turns into a neutral zone . . .

When one of the elite parties win . . . everybody voted for it . . .

When you are long enough in these boards you can pretty much see how harts are changed.

This thread makes me laugh so hard I am crying.

Marg,
I have NEVER changed my "hat"

I am a Republican, 100%, proud of it. I campaigned for President Bush and would do it again.

Grover,

Though we have differed on occasions, I never got the impression you were that "Liberal."

You actually listen... What's up with that?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Semper

[edit on 10/1/2006 by semperfortis]

Semper, why wouldn't you vote libertarian? Other then "wasting" your vote as these major parties make you believe? Whats sad is it wouldn't be a wasted vote if people didnt have that mentality.

You need to do you. You say you are republican 100% but is that really true? You always have seemed pretty libertarian to me when you talked about issues rather then party lines. I think that if people voted on their own personal views, rather then worrying what will be wasted or what other people do, this country would be well on its way to a better country.

Why? well being a follower never got anybody anywhere, and when you dont vote a certain party because of the majority votes different, your only being a follower.

I was actually talking about the Party I favor Grim,

You are correct though, I ALWAYS vote the man/woman. I just tend to follow the Republican base a little more.

You are correct in how I feel about wasting my vote on a Libertarian. Oh I agree with their politics, almost completely, it just seems the public in general is either not ready or does not understand the value of Libertarian Politics.

I am a HUGE fan of Neil Bortz and also the "Fair Tax plan".

I guess what I am saying here is I believe the only way we are ever going to change anything is very very slowly. By making small, significant changes in one party, we may be able to secure the "Blessing of Liberty" for our children.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
I was actually talking about the Party I favor Grim,

You are correct though, I ALWAYS vote the man/woman. I just tend to follow the Republican base a little more.

You are correct in how I feel about wasting my vote on a Libertarian. Oh I agree with their politics, almost completely, it just seems the public in general is either not ready or does not understand the value of Libertarian Politics.

I am a HUGE fan of Neil Bortz and also the "Fair Tax plan".

I guess what I am saying here is I believe the only way we are ever going to change anything is very very slowly. By making small, significant changes in one party, we may be able to secure the "Blessing of Liberty" for our children.

Semper

I guess thats where we differ, you believe you can change the party, I believe in the end the party will just change you and manipulate you to further their own agendas.

Originally posted by semperfortis
The Quran is a book based on Violence, and the aggressive take over of every other religion on the planet. If there are doubts, just read the book, it is clear. It even requires no interpretation, it spells it out exactly.

That scares me.

Semper

i'd like a quick say in this discussion, invoked from Semper's post only.

I have always thought that God/Allah would not need us flesh bags(sick) to help him out in destroying other religions. I would just think he'd make his opponents(lol) books disappear into thin air just as easily as he created us and our time limit(murder).
I've always held a higher belief that God/Allah would not insult us by, well, basically insulting us throughout the book. From what I read, we are nothing but sick dastardly walking flesh bags(sick again) to him/it.

Your right, he does need our help to exterminate the devil. Yeah right, he's been around forever, he probably created every religion in the world and each book tells us to kill the followers of any other book just so his bored ass can watch us actually partake in this mass war all for his/its entertainment.

Then we all will go to heaven and realized I was right.

lol

guess thats where we differ, you believe you can change the party, I believe in the end the party will just change you and manipulate you to further their own agendas.

Grim,

I have only this to say....

I know of no external force that has the power to "change" me in anyway.

Done too much, seen too much and lived to tell of it.

I also believe that you are very strong in your convictions. You should not worry about being changed, That is for the weak willed and hopefully they don't vote anyway. (Of course they do, but one can hope.)

Semper

[edit on 10/1/2006 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by semperfortis
Grim,

I have only this to say....

I know of no external force that has the power to "change" me in anyway.

Done too much, seen too much and lived to tell of it.

I also believe that you are very strong in your convictions. You should not worry about being changed, That is for the weak willed and hopefully they don't vote anyway. (Of course they do, but one can hope.)

Semper

[edit on 10/1/2006 by semperfortis]

they may not change you but they will manipulate you. democrats and republicans only stand for two things, corruption and power. They are both the same, and they will onyl exploit your attempts to change things.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
they may not change you but they will manipulate you. democrats and republicans only stand for two things, corruption and power. They are both the same, and they will onyl exploit your attempts to change things.

\

you are correct.
the only reason for this two party system is for you to unrealisticly choose one or the other.
they will both argue and make points, but in the end those arguments are painted to make you think that this is not a communist state.

People constantly think that the word "communist" means evil.

lol

The whole world is communist.
There is not escape from that fact.
No secret society or government would ever try to make you believe this because that would make you realize that you have ABSOLUTELY no control over anything that goes on whether for positive or negative. They were here before us and built up a family inheirited order that no one can deny.

You cannot deny because that is the exact same thing you would do.

Semper....my personal politics are a blend of the idealism of the Baha'i Faith (which is why I never endorse a candidate, we are not supposed to involve ourselves in party politics) Jeffersonian democracy and a very selectively applied socialism. The natural resources of our country should be administered for the good of the nation, not leased or sold at pennies on the dollar to private investors and corporations. My politics could best be described as the classic Yankee moderate...lets take care of our own, but lets watch our pennies while we do it. The wealthy and the corporations do not need our help but the poor, the elderly and the disabled do. Environments should be protected with laws that have muscle because moving off this rock is no option. The government has no business poking its nose in my bedroom or have any interest about who I love so long as I do not abuse or hurt anyone. Neither does it have any business meddling in a woman's reproductive rights, outlaw abortion and we will return to the days of back alley abortions and other such horrors. Nor does the government have any business in the pulpit, nor does the pulpit have any business meddling in politics....who or what I pray to is no more their concern than whom I sleep with. International entanglements should be few and far between...we should pick our fights very carefully and when we fight don't diddle daddle about it, throw the full weight of our military at the problem and be done with it...do it right or not at all. I believe that every man woman and child upon reaching the age of 18 should do 4 years in either the military or something like the civilian conservation corps...it would give the weeny ass youth of today a right of passage into adulthood and make better citizens of them by involving them in something bigger than themselves. And if we extend the the G.I. Bill to include everyone who does their 4 years, military or not, we defacto create a universal health system that would also be of great benefit to our country.

So Semper that is a quick sketch of my politics. So where does that place me? I call a type of classic liberalism but I have also been told that I am a social libaterian. All I know is that I haven't agreed with a Republican in years.

Where does it place you?

With only a few exceptions, right alongside of me.

Nice post and I agree.

(Darn it!! I wanted to argue)

Semper

Grover, I dont think your really much of a libertarian at all. democrat, yes but libertarian, almost not at all. I saw a few things that qualified as libertarian, but thats the democratic part of the libertarian party that you agreed with.

libertarians dont believe in helping the poor. No hand outs, no health care system. Nothing is forced, including military. No laws on business either. None of that is suppose to be governments job. Libertarians believe business can be handled by the people, and the desired effect will follow.

well thats a great ideal grim but our society is too large and complex to function that way. The Jeffersonian ideal works great in small agarian communities but we left that behind ages ago. There has to be a place where the rights of the individual give way to the needs of community and vice aversa.

I agree Grover,

But WILLINGLY!!!!

Never by force. If you begin forcing the usurping of personal rights for the "Group", then you have created Communism, Socialism and any other ism you want to name.

There in lies the problem. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and anytime you give the government the power to relegate charity and compassion, then they have complete control of our lives.

Who decides what personal freedoms are set aside for the "betterment" of others? You, Me, Hitler? See that's the problem, where do you come up with this mystical person that wont abuse those powers?

Too much Government my friend is a quick road to the old USSR and Nazi Germany.

Semper

semper and grover, anything that is done, should be done willingly. Any person that wants to help the poor should do it by freely doing it. This creates responsibility and such.

People have the oppertunity to be stupid and irresponsible because we let them. This societies average person is ignorant because your putting them in the position where they can be. Dont give them hand outs, give them responsibility.

Big deal. So does google - faliure