China's Lasers Versus America's Satellites

What gives Western nations the RIGHT to be the only developed nations on earth? What gives Western nations the RIGHT to use military force to prevent others from developing? That is utterly ridiculous, how can you not see the follys of your extremist thinkings?

Not many people think like you, and I thank God for that.

If you truly think that the EU will flock to anything the US does against China, you have seriously got to wake up from your dream world. In 2005, France passed a law that PERMITTED China to attack Taiwan. At the same time, the EU has NEVER stated whatsoever that they would help Taiwan in ANY CASE. EU supports the One-China policy.

Let alone the fact that the majority of Europeans REALLY DISLIKE the United States. Wonder why so many Americans who visit Europe have to pretend they are Canadians?
The United States is the secondly most negatively viewed nation ON EARTH. (Iran is #1)
Any European politican who even shows a sign of support of the war in Iraq knows he will never get re-elected.


Secondly, there is no need for war in terms of re-unification and the mainland officials KNOW this.

Like most Americans who are cmopletely ignorant of politics in Taiwan; the fact of the matter is is that Taiwan will eventually reunify with the mainland peacefully and the mainland officials realize this as well.

2/3s of Taiwan support eventual reunification. 1/6 Support Immediate and 1/6 support independence.

Taiwan's president is an idiot. His approval rating is at around 10%. He issued 14 official apologies to the people of Taiwan. He got rid of the National Unification Council AND is currently getting RECALLED.

The KMT party has FULL CONTROL of Parliament and the KMT party supports eventual reunification.

Mayor Ma is a sure favorite to win the next presidency and HE supports eventual reunification.

The way things are headed... there is no doubt that reunification is inevitable.



[edit on 9-10-2006 by k4rupt]

You are in the War,we are not.
Peace!!!!!!

Originally posted by k4rupt
What gives Western nations the RIGHT to be the only developed nations on earth? What gives Western nations the RIGHT to use military force to prevent others from developing? That is utterly ridiculous, how can you not see the follys of your extremist thinkings?

Not many people think like you, and I thank God for that.

If you truly think that the EU will flock to anything the US does against China, you have seriously got to wake up from your dream world. In 2005, France passed a law that PERMITTED China to attack Taiwan. At the same time, the EU has NEVER stated whatsoever that they would help Taiwan in ANY CASE. EU supports the One-China policy.

Let alone the fact that the majority of Europeans REALLY DISLIKE the United States. Wonder why so many Americans who visit Europe have to pretend they are Canadians?
The United States is the secondly most negatively viewed nation ON EARTH. (Iran is #1)
Any European politican who even shows a sign of support of the war in Iraq knows he will never get re-elected.

The EU will be the revived Roman Empire, so none of that surprises me.

[edit on 9-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by k4rupt
What gives Western nations the RIGHT to be the only developed nations on earth? What gives Western nations the RIGHT to use military force to prevent others from developing? That is utterly ridiculous, how can you not see the follys of your extremist thinkings?

You do not get it huh? I'll make one more attempt. The Western alliance does most definitely not have the right to prevent a country of developing, but that's irrelevant.
We're speculating on how Western powers would and could prevent China from becoming more powerful than them.

China is currently absorbing power from the West and I can assure you that Western nations won't let China take over the position of superpower from the US. Again, I don't say it's morally right, but we are not going to be able to change it.

Originally posted by k4rupt
If you truly think that the EU will flock to anything the US does against China, you have seriously got to wake up from your dream world. In 2005, France passed a law that PERMITTED China to attack Taiwan. At the same time, the EU has NEVER stated whatsoever that they would help Taiwan in ANY CASE. EU supports the One-China policy.

You should take some more Ritalin to relax, no need to get so excited.
Do you know why France passed that law? To sell more weapons to China, really for no other reason than that:

The desire to sell arms to China has been pushed by France and Germany, both of which are seeking markets to revitalize their own defense industries. France, as always, has a broader agenda. It has essentially kow-towed to China over Taiwan with President Jacques Chirac publicly warning Taipei not to provoke Beijing, and doing so in talks with the Chinese government, a clearly insulting gesture to Taipei.

Don't take the standpoint of France too serious. They also supplied Saddam Hussein with fair arsenal of weapons an resources to construct nuclear facilities in the 80s, barely one or two years after the last shipment France joined the coalition of countries fighting on the allied side during in the Gulf War.

You probably won't understand it, but Westerners will always unite, rather than joining a coalition with China. Of course Europe does support China as long China is an important trading partner (how ignorant can you be). Should China make an attempt to occupy Taiwan I can assure you that the European Union will stand by the US. Every Western country is aware of what could happen if the West wouldn't be united anymore.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Let alone the fact that the majority of Europeans REALLY DISLIKE the United States. Wonder why so many Americans who visit Europe have to pretend they are Canadians?
The United States is the secondly most negatively viewed nation ON EARTH. (Iran is #1)
Any European politican who even shows a sign of support of the war in Iraq knows he will never get re-elected.

That's a personal opinion, not a fact. Dude, I am an European myself in case you didn’t notice yet . European don't hate Americans and are greatly welcomed to visit Europe. The fact that many Europeans don't support the Bush Administration doesn't mean Europeans don't like Americans, that's complete nonsense. And your assertion that Americans have to pretend to be Canadians is even more ridiculous. Iraq did not form a threat to Western society, China probably will, Western leaders all over the world are aware of that.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Secondly, there is no need for war in terms of re-unification and the mainland officials KNOW this.

Like most Americans who are cmopletely ignorant of politics in Taiwan; the fact of the matter is is that Taiwan will eventually reunify with the mainland peacefully and the mainland officials realize this as well.

2/3s of Taiwan support eventual reunification. 1/6 Support Immediate and 1/6 support independence.

Maybe if you read censored Chinese sources. Don't tell I'm telling lies, because Chinese friends are telling me the internet is carefully censored. Or would you suggest Taiwan is ruled by a brutal dictator?

Most polls show declining support for unification and increasing support for independence in the recent decade. Historically, throughout much of the last decade polls consistently suggest that 70% to 80% of all Taiwanese support maintaining the status quo

Source

Originally posted by k4rupt
Mayor Ma is a sure favorite to win the next presidency and HE supports eventual reunification.
The way things are headed... there is no doubt that reunification is inevitable.

We will see. Anyway, the people's republic of China did not just for fun pass a law, which allows to use military force against Taiwan last year.

Conclusion
The above analysis indicates that the identity of Taiwanese citizens has experienced
significant changes during the eight-year period between 1994 and 2002.
Many of them, especially the younger generations, have increasingly moved
away from a Chinese identity and have adopted a dual identity, considering
themselves as both Chinese and Taiwanese. Unlike the polarized image painted
by the island’s politicians, it appears that there is convergence towards this
identity across different generations. Meanwhile, Taiwan citizens’ stands on the
island’s future relations with China have also experienced significant change.
While the island’s eventual unification with China is the most favored stand for
the first generation respondents, maintaining the status quo with future action
left undetermined is the preferred policy position for younger islanders.

Because the third and fourth generations combined have become the largest age
cohort in the Taiwanese population, their similar identity and policy preference
will have decisive effects on Taipei’s current and future domestic and foreign
policies.


..............


Study on Taiwan PDF

[edit on 9-10-2006 by Mdv2]

First of all MDV2, whre are you even getting this idea that there would even be a western coalition against China?

Any sources to back this ridiculous claim at all?

Barely ANYONE thinks like you and again, I thank God for that.

No European politician has EVER expressed anything REMOTELY similar to what you have stated. The Europeans support a One-China policy, nations of Europe have stated they would allow China to invade Taiwan.

WHAT PROOF do you have otherwise OTHER than your fanatical dream of a united West.

K4rupt, I agree with Mdv. You just don't understand. The US and Europe [the West] are linked together. Europe would not support an attack from China on Taiwan.

And like Mdv said many times, the Western leaders don't like or trust China, but right now it is economically sufficient to be friends. That won't always be so as I am sure the hundreds of millions of people will gradually demand better jobs, etc. Nor is it sound to believe China will be a supplying nation forever. The West knows this, and the West knows that China is the threat at the end of the road.

Trust me...if China attacks Taiwan the west will unite against it, and it will be supported by nobody minus your friends in the Sudan and North Korea.

By the way, I go to Europe and say I am American...Americans and Europeans may get in fights over politics but that doesn't mean we HATE each other. Our cultures are the same, and we are basically family, we'll always be allies.

First of all, friends, there is no guarantee whatsoever that the US will even aid Taiwan in an invasion. The United States is getting very weary of President Chen's decisions to stride towards independence. The United States issued a warning AGAINST him that if he continues this, the US will no longer defend Taiwan.

Trust me Retinoid, there is no need even FOR an invasion against Taiwan. Taiwan is slowly coming towards reunification and the leaders in Beijing KNOW this. As China liberalizes, Taiwan will only come closer and closer to a united China once again.


There is NOTHING in the air that suggests Europe will even AID Taiwan in an invasion. NOTHING AT ALL. No statements WHATSOEVER. However, FRIENDS, there are statements from Europe PERMITTING an invasion... so everything you have told me contradicts reality.

The only reason for me to believe that EU will even come to the aid of Taiwan is because the US and EU share a "similar culture?" and that you and MDV2 believe in a Western coalition that has no truth to it whatsoever?

I have shown you the facts, and all you guys came up with is this dream of a Western coalition to counter my facts.





[edit on 9-10-2006 by k4rupt]

When people cannot buy bread anymore, which would be exactly the case when the Dollar collapses.

I hear a lot of gloom and doom. While I do believe the world is not the greatest economically, and the US isn't by any means either, I do not see people not being able to afford bread anytime soon. I've read and heard too many predictions of dooms that never came to pass, so I really take most of it with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by k4rupt


Secondly, the only reason for me to believe that EU will even come to the aid of Taiwan is because the US and EU share a "similar culture?" and that you and MDV2 believe in a Western coalition that has no truth to it whatsoever?

The West is already in a coalition. The West usually acts together in the UN (minus fickle France). US and European businesses invest in each other more than any area around the world. We share similar culture and government.

Please tell me why a Western coalition is false? Do you think the US and EU would allow China to attack Taiwan? Do you think they will support them?

:

You have voted RetinoidReceptor for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Great post Retinoid. However, he'll probably never understand Europe and US will always be allies.

Karupt, I'll respond tomorrow on your so called facts. Meanwhile, I'd recommend to read the study rather than reading censored Chinese sources.


[edit on 9-10-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor


The West is already in a coalition. The West usually acts together in the UN (minus fickle France). US and European businesses invest in each other more than any area around the world. We share similar culture and government.

Please tell me why a Western coalition is false? Do you think the US and EU would allow China to attack Taiwan? Do you think they will support them?

Oh really? The EU and the US ALWAYS spar in the UN. Both have VERY different opinions MOST of the time.

So you're telling me, that because the US and the EU share a similar culture/gov't, that they'd support defending Taiwan?


NOTHING at ALL insists even REMOTELY the EU will defend Taiwan WHATSOEVER. The EU supports a one-china policy, the EU has NEVER stated it would even aid Taiwan in any military matter, members of the EU has even said they would permit a mainland invasion. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

You're only justification for your ridiculous suggestion that EU would support Taiwan is based on a dream contrary to reality.

Instead of basing your statements on what you THINK, please kindly provide some information like I have done so REPEATEDLY.

Does nothing go through your heads?



And MDV2, how dare you suggest that I read Chinese censored news. What kind of ignorant talk is that? Just because I disagree with you, you're telling me what I read and what I don't? Just so typical of you ignorant Westerners.






[edit on 9-10-2006 by k4rupt]

K4rupt why do you think the West likes China so much? They don't, like I said, it is for the cheap labor. Once that is taken away they won't be friendly. China will become a threat, and not only Donald Rumsfeld sees that I assure you. There are smart military and strategic planners in Europe who can analyze future threats. Trust me, Europe would rather have the US as the superpower over China anyday. And you saying the EU would not condemn Chinese invasion of Taiwan is nuts. Like I said, Chinese supporters of that move will be Sudan and North Korea. I don't even think Russia would support such a move. Nor should anyone support it.

And when does Europe usually not vote with the US? Britain...Germany...they usually vote with the US (as seen with the Lebanese situation). And France...well they change their mind a lot, yet even now with the North Korean mess, France with Britain and the US is calling for strong sanctions.

This thread is offically derailed.

Score one for ignorance and distraction.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
K4rupt why do you think the West likes China so much? They don't, like I said, it is for the cheap labor. Once that is taken away they won't be friendly. China will become a threat, and not only Donald Rumsfeld sees that I assure you. There are smart military and strategic planners in Europe who can analyze future threats. Trust me, Europe would rather have the US as the superpower over China anyday. And you saying the EU would not condemn Chinese invasion of Taiwan is nuts. Like I said, Chinese supporters of that move will be Sudan and North Korea. I don't even think Russia would support such a move. Nor should anyone support it.

First of all, just because the West "dislikes" China (according to you, and ONLY you since you have posted NOTHING to back this up), doesn't mean the West will unite to attack China.

Also, if you think the west is using China only because of "cheap labor," I suggest you seriously get some help. Aren't there MILLIONS of other plaecs to get cheap labor? India, Bangladesh, Africa, Malaysia, Myanmar, Nepal, Latin America? China isn't the "only" place the EU can turn to as you suggest. If the EU really disliked CHina as much as you wished, and the only thing keeping the EU and China from war is "cheap labor," then I really suggest you analyze this ridiculous statement again.

And again, you have NO info, no statements whatsoever backing your claims AT ALL - ONLY YOUR OPINIONS. Do you not think that is nuts as well?

EU supports a one-China policy, EU has never stated it would help Taiwan in ANY way at all, members of EU have already allowed China to invade Taiwan. IS THIS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU? The only argument you have against this is your OPINION. Rather pathetic, wouldn't you agree?

Where the hell are you even pulling the info about EU defending Taiwan? That is RIDICULOUS.





[edit on 10-10-2006 by k4rupt]

First of all, just because the West "dislikes" China (according to you, and ONLY you since you have posted NOTHING to back this up), doesn't mean the West will unite to attack China.

Nobody would like a known future threat. And no I am not the ONLY person who thinks that way. Didn't you post something Donald Rumsfeld said, you know about a Chinese threat? I doubt he and I are the only people who think that way

Also, if you think the west is using China only because of "cheap labor," I suggest you seriously get some help. Aren't there MILLIONS of other plaecs to get cheap labor? India, Bangladesh, Africa, Malaysia, Myanmar, Nepal, Latin America?

What else would the west be using China for?

And those "millions" of other places are being used already. India, Nepal, etc. All being used! Isn't that nice of the west...helping developing countries and all?

China isn't the "only" place the EU can turn to as you suggest. If the EU really disliked CHina as much as you wished, and the only thing keeping the EU and China from war is "cheap labor," then I really suggest you analyze this ridiculous statement again.

The only thing keeping China and the EU from war is 1) A REASON for going to war.

2) Also economics

Same with the US.

EU supports a one-China policy, EU has never stated it would help Taiwan in ANY way at all, members of EU have already allowed China to invade Taiwan.

First off, you may have misunderstood me. I never said the EU would aid Taiwan. I said they would condemn an invasion by China on Taiwan.

Like I have said. If China invades Taiwan...the only people that will be supporting the invasion would be places like Sudan. If Taiwan attacks China though, then they would be no doubt supported by more countries.

Let's be serious though. China's main goal at the moment is to become an economic power and help their many impoverished people. They will not be able to do that with attacking Taiwan, being condemned by the US, EU, and Japan, and investors from all these countries withdrawing their investments from China due to this crisis.

Where the hell are you even pulling the info about EU defending Taiwan? That is RIDICULOUS.

That would be ridiculous if I said that without proof that the EU would defend Taiwan militarily. But it is also ridiculous for you to say the EU would support an invasion by China to Taiwan.


In reality though, I couldn't care less if China invades Taiwan. But investors and countries in that region and western leaders WOULD.

Nobody would like a known future threat. And no I am not the ONLY person who thinks that way. Didn't you post something Donald Rumsfeld said, you know about a Chinese threat? I doubt he and I are the only people who think that way

Well if nobody would like a known future threat then everyone should dislike the USA in first place.. right?

A country agressing into other cultures affairs in the name of god and the oh so hilarious fight against terrorism. With no evident reason other than profiting from ressources and wasting young soldiers.
A country publicly announcing that a nuclear war "could" be won. Ridiculous.

Also your opinion of "others".. like china, india and co. seems pretty arrogant.

If there are many other people like you, fearing a threat from terrorist attacks, irak, iran, china, russia... little children walking around.. grandmas in wheelchears.. etc.

The only reason is because apparently you believe all the crap which is being fed to the people in public media.

I hope all those people at least enjoy the taste of poo between their teeth.. and in their eyes.

Well if nobody would like a known future threat then everyone should dislike the USA in first place.. right?

Why is the US going to be a future threat?

A country agressing into other cultures affairs in the name of god and the oh so hilarious fight against terrorism. With no evident reason other than profiting from ressources and wasting young soldiers.

The US goes into other "cultures" affairs in the name of god? When was this? And when did cultures have affairs?

A country publicly announcing that a nuclear war "could" be won. Ridiculous.

Did you read the article released by the CFR? It really isn't that ridiculous if you have nuclear primacy.

Also your opinion of "others".. like china, india and co. seems pretty arrogant.

What opinion is that?

If there are many other people like you, fearing a threat from terrorist attacks, irak, iran, china, russia... little children walking around.. grandmas in wheelchears.. etc.

I have no idea what you just typed. You typed something about me, then typed countries, then talked about grandmothers in one sentence...

The only reason is because apparently you believe all the crap which is being fed to the people in public media.

Not really. As I have only been talking about China and China isn't in the media. So I don't know what you mean.

Why is the US going to be a future threat?
The US goes into other "cultures" affairs in the name of god? When was this? And when did cultures have affairs?
Did you read the article released by the CFR? It really isn't that ridiculous if you have nuclear primacy.

There are cultural affairs since there are cultures. (What a splendid question of yours, seriously)

If you listen to your president it sounds as every thing, incl. the war against terrorism.. occurs in the name of god. god bless america, and god bless retinoidreceptor!

Because the US has tremendous military force and they are using it alot.
Here's a list of offensive military actions from 1950 up to 1999:

aktivepolitik.de... (I'm absolutely sorry, it's a german source. But if you possibly step over your ignorant attitude, you can maybe understand the information given on that list.)

As you might notice there have been more than 30 (!) operations since 1995.. not including the war in irak right now. I certainly hope this number is enough to convince even someone of your kind.

USA has got a private (!) currency bank instead of a regulated/controlled institution which in my opinion is a social/economical threat in form of abuse and theft. This is already happening. When you look at germany for instance; Their national gold was given to the US in change for some useless "debt-check".

50% of the arab investitions have been given to developing countries. Now what happened to this money? Those countries were given the chance to nullify their debts with the US, but in change they had to sign some special and very cool "god bless america!" contract. South-America for instance had to guarantee natural ressources, just to name an example.. The philippines were one of the few exceptions not accepting such a tremendously kind offer, because the president knew his country would lose autonomy.

As you could have already noticed america is buying monopols and even forcing other nations by means of money. Money, which is actually worth nothing. Do you still remember why? RetinoidReceptor? Aaahh.. yes, right. The US have only got a private currency bank. Exactly.. You can actually use the US-Dollar as toilet paper. There IS NO US-Dollar..

What else would the west be using China for?

And those "millions" of other places are being used already. India, Nepal, etc. All being used! Isn't that nice of the west...helping developing countries and all?

What opinion is that?

Ask yourself what kind of opinion that is. It's very arrogant. You seem to feel superior, which definately is not the case at all.

I have no idea what you just typed. You typed something about me, then typed countries, then talked about

grandmothers in one sentence...

It was a sarcastic exageration. Maybe this helps your capability of understanding..

Did you read the article released by the CFR? It really isn't that ridiculous if you have nuclear primacy.

I can now nicely conclude that it is because of people like you why america is a threat. Even if you have nuclear supremacy it's not possible to win a nuclear war due to the huge area of effect.
I really wonder if you actually know what an A-Bomb is at all..

But i assume it sums up to... plain ignorance.


PS: The only effect of a nuclear war would possibly be that this world becomes cleansed of the useless, living scum on this planet. For a new elitary, evil nazi-race to arise from the ashes... Awesome.

Osram, stop ccalling me names such as arrogant, etc. Seriously, if you want to debate there is no need of going to such childish tactics.

I don't really care as to respond to you anymore. I'll talk to others on this thread.

You're ignored.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

The EU will be the revived Roman Empire, so none of that surprises me.

[edit on 9-10-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Why would you say that my friend? I would have thought the parallels of the ROman emprire and the American empire were obvious. Not saying that eventually the EU will not become like a roman empire, but why subscribe to the future what can clearly be seen in the now?