Foreginers and the obsession with America in their posts

I want to give a few tips to some people on here from other countries that criticize the US to no end. That is, of course your right. And you will find that many Americans agree with you. But:

When you continously spout about how evil the US is while not mentioning your countries

When you say the US is going to fall and collapse all the time

When you say the US is a pushover.

People get defensive. Especially when your countries (Canada, Britain, France, Romania, Australia, Russia, etc.) are not in the best shape and take advantage of poorer countries just like the US does.

Comprehensive discussion should not attack other people's countries. If everyone was talking bad about the UK, I assure you, you would not be happy.

Be balanced.

I think each country has their own bloody story to tell. The U.S. is getting it in the neck right now because they are currently still world superpower, and are still in the Middle East.

Maybe our world leaders should take a page from your thread.

If people would be as quick to recognize their own country's leadership's shortcomings; than maybe they wouldnt be so aggressive when ' verbally attacking' another person's.
Every govt. in the world has its minor and major hypocrisies.

But just to illustrate how Americans sometimes ask for it: there is a thread entitled:

World Opinion, and why America shouldnt care about it

Just look at that title; even without going into the thread.. Do you see what my point is?Of course America Should care... there is a whole world besides the US.
There are no shortage of Americans that feel like we are above every other country in the world. We are so self assured of our own self appointed superiority; that we fail to see our own ignorance. Over zealous pursuit of self righteous reasoning for 'converting' the world to our ideology which is not even true democracy but treading dangerously close to corporate fascism.

So maybe the world is sharply criticizing us.. Maybe its about time. How soveriegn are other nations when we do not give them their soveriegnty? When we are so bold as to preemptively invade nations because of our own fear?

No, even as a proud American I cannot sit here and say that we dont deserve it.. because we do... and thats the part that hurts.

But being an American I have every right to criticize my govt until the cows come home.

People from other nations ..go ahead criticize us.... But not before you take a good long look at you own country's failures and hypocrisies.

"And if you live in a glass house dont throw stones"

and for us Americans... at preseant we are a great power; but, with great power comes even greater responsibility.

thank you for your time,

Tone23

[edit on 9/26/2006 by TONE23]

Absolutely Tone23, but even I, who value world unity, feel like we shouldn't care about world opinion reading the majority of these posts sometimes.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Absolutely Tone23, but even I, who value world unity, feel like we shouldn't care about world opinion reading the majority of these posts sometimes.

I know it feels that way.. but you know as well as any American that our govt. has facilitated this resentment to a potent degree. Our foriegn policy in many nations for many years; while being fruitful for us; has not always been fruitful for the recipient nation of our policy decisions.

We are probably the most charitable nation in the world... But our greed and gluttony and pride have overshadowed that to such a degree that it is as if we never gave a penny. And that is a shame.. because there is still so much good in America that doesnt get the spotlight becuase the "bad" just seems so much heavier.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Absolutely Tone23, but even I, who value world unity, feel like we shouldn't care about world opinion reading the majority of these posts sometimes.

America is the worlds' only Super Power, and hence has a massive influence on how the World operates. America's self proclaimed role as the Worlds' police, dubious foreign policy decisions, Arms sales, and disregard for International Law has a lot to do with these feelings and hence these posts.

Whether you like it or not American policies, domestic polotics and American behaviour effect everyone on this planet. Sometimes even the lives of foreign innocents are at the mercy of the U.S administration.

Hence, we expect them to do the right thing. It's called leading by example.

original quote by: kojac
Hence, we expect them to do the right thing. It's called leading by example.

And that... ladies and gentlemen.. is ALL I ask of our govt....

America is the worlds' only Super Power, and hence has a massive influence on how the World operates. America's self proclaimed role as the Worlds' police, dubious foreign policy decisions, Arms sales, and disregard for International Law has a lot to do with these feelings and hence these posts.

You don;t have to be a superpower to do all that. China sells weapons to Sudan for example. Other countries disregard international law. Other countries follow AMerica's footsteps. Many of those countries are the countries the people criticizing America are from.

I am not saying to NOT criticize America. America should be criticized, but only criticizing America bothers me and many other Americans. Especially when you don't mention other countries sins.

Its unfair to ask people to restrict there American opinions, when in turn such pro american opinions exist.

I think everyone accepts there own countries short comings, but as stated America has so much global power and reach, when its them pushing sanctions, and them militarily striking other countries.. its hard to criticse other countries.. especially when they oppose the use of force, oppose the use of sanctions and submit to the pressure of global warmining.

I mean it was just released that the US Government is blocking further studies saying global warmining is happening.
Who do you expect us to criticse for that ?

The American admininstration can go against world opinion, go against the laws for peace on our planet.. yet god forbid someone else do it.. we hold them up for ransom and threaten them with all sorts of crap.
Its not other countries doing this... ITS AMERICA!

Granted no one here can change anything the american government does.. or any government for that matter.

But when its american in the driving seat of potentially the two most globally effecting crisis's in todays times... sorry if you feel its unfair of me to judge america.. being they arent doing anything to HELP the situation.

Sorry for you RR, but being there are so many people willing to speak FOR the government, Id expect them to ALLOW me to speak AGAINST the government.

likewise if you start aiming criticism at MY COUNTRY, I will happily oblige to agree or disagree with you pending on the argument at hand. Its just that my small little countries affairs dont effect the outcome of the planet.

Plus I find your title incorrect, you'll prolly find its not just FOREIGNERS that are disgusted with american administration.

Pretty closed minded to believe its ONLY Foreigners criticising america.


[edit on 27-9-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Plus I find your title incorrect, you'll prolly find its not just FOREIGNERS that are disgusted with american administration.

Pretty closed minded to believe its ONLY Foreigners criticising america.

Foreginers are obsessed with America obviously, as seen in their posts. I didn't say they liked America.

ANd I never said only foreginers criticize America, I actually said most Americans agree, but we don't like foreginers always crticizing our government and foretell how the US will fall (like you have said many times), just because for the most part, they don't like America.

And we also don't like that you are not balanced in your views, and don't condemn your own countries for partaking in the evil and exploitation of other countries.

I see posts where Americans talk bad about Europe, and Europeans get pretty pissed off. How would they like it if almost every post on here talking about politics and economics is talking bad ONLY about Europe?

What I am advocating is balance, you twist my words around and say I am advocating no criticism of the US. Not cool.

[edit on 27-9-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]

What do you expect?
For foreigners to be obsessed with Siberia? and there global manipulation?
Sorry mate, America makes itself headline news to push there own actions..
Not liking America has nothing to do with it.
Why cant I like america? Ive been there love the country.. but sorry to say the way your heading and the actions your stoking arent leading to a bright and prosperous future.

Having balance in my views is personal opinion.
Maybe I dont speak all my views?
And isnt the point of debating having a SIDE... and DEBATING that particular side?
Theres always good and bad about everything. But when your pushing your idea on something your obvioulsy going to utilise everything that backs up what your saying arent you ?

Well, being theres so many americans that agree with the criticism I dont see why they should get soo pissed off when people are discussing it. After all they agree with it.. and everyone wants change for good.. simply not speaking your views because you fear people might be getting sick of seeing so many negative views isnt reason to keep your views quiet.
Simple, if you dont like what someones posting.. dont reply, dont quote and move on.
You only reply if they have a legitmate point, or something you wish to debate about.

I hear what your saying.. honestly
I like many others are guilty of this.
But we are balanced in our views, I have criticsed my country and its leadership many times.. and not because they are in bed with the US but simply because of there policies which are driven by greed, rather than the will to help there own citizens.

But to be fair.. I am yet to see anything come out of this administration that is WORTHY of praise or positive debate.

From stemmcell research, to the enviroment, to the war on terror, to the middle east, to the oil issue...

Because my views arent balanced isnt my fault.
Maybe america should contribute something to give me balance in my debate.

You should come an visit Canada some time, we don't trust anyone in a leadership position. Yeah, we make condecending remarks at you yanks south of the border, but don't you think we are in a very unique position to make judgements about your culture, as we are currently being inundated with your TV, Movies, and Music.

To not have an opinion on America is to deny being Canadian.

[edit on 27-9-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
When you continously spout about how evil the US is while not mentioning your countries

...
Be balanced.

Can I introduce you to the other side of the coin? Time and again I start a thread or try to get people to discuss issues other than US issues. And time after time I hit a brick wall or can't get a conversation from the ground. Some say it's because people just don't care about non-US topics. Others say it's because the raised issues isn't as interesting or flashy as US topics. Whatever the reason it is a huge frustration for me - and many people will be able to vouch for this. There are so many fascinating topics outside the borders of the USA.

So I've learned not to focus on non-US issues. And as long as we stay focussed on that, then the US will "take hits" - figuratively speaking.

Disclaimer: In no way am I anti-American. Most ATS members are Americans, and they want to discuss the US - as this is understandably the issue that mostly affect them. The majority wants. The majority gets.

But all that said. I couldn't agree with you more. Be balanced.

Like it or not...America is held to a higher standard. Truth to tell, we should be. For the past 230 yrs. we've held ourselves out as the beacon of freedom, liberty, etc. Like all nations we've got our skeletons...many of them in fact. You all know them as well as I do, so there is little point to inumerating them.

Yes, it's hard to come on to ATS and find yet another "America bad" thread started by someone who has never, and will never, been here. Yet they know America better than those of us who've lived, and travelled here all our lives. Yes, it's hard and hurts, and we fire back...

We hold our nation to a higher standard because we profess to represent higher standards. Thus when we fail in our attempts, we get called on it...doesn't make it any less painful or angering, but its the reality. Oddly enough, its a compliment of sorts...the rest of the world holds us to our own standards because more often than not, we are the ones the world turns to...warts and all...and they'd kinda like us to be there when they need us.

I don't think most non-Americans here are anti-American, just the few that are are so vocal, their ranting posts seem to permeate the forums to such an extent it seems that everyone is.

I'm a patriotic American who voted for Bush twice, yet I still freely criticize the federal U.S. government when I disagree with it -- and foreigners should be able to do the same. But when some people become so anti-American that absolutely nothing we do is right, I just start ignoring them. Some members come to mind, but out of courtesy I will not list them by name here.

So I've learned not to focus on non-US issues. And as long as we stay focussed on that, then the US will "take hits" - figuratively speaking.

I would love to see more non-US issues. The news that I watch rarely focuses on stories out of the US, and rarely rarely focuses out of the country (like in Europe). So I want to know what is happening, outside of the US.

posted by RetinoidReceptor:
I am not saying to NOT criticize America. America should be criticized, but only criticizing America bothers me and many other Americans. Especially when you don't mention other countries sins.

Who cares about what the Sudanese government allows to happen to non-muslim people in Dafur?
Who cares about what Mugabe does to his own country of Zimbabwe?
Who cares about what happens in East Timor?
... or in Indonesia?
... in the DR of Congo?
(the list is endless)
Who even cares about what's taking place in the heart of Europe, in Hungary right now?

I'm a Euro and a newbie, but already it's become a frustation to me, only threads with American issues seems to get respons. I.e issues of general political content that don't disturb any inner feelings.
Allow me to state in all of my days as a thinking reflecting human being I've always been PRO-Amercan.
Some of that time I've been ANTI-Capitalist, but most of the time I've been ANTI-goverment. And I still am.
That goes for my own government as well. As a curiosity only, I like to mention that my own blog in the headbanner carries in point-size 21: IMPEACH (name of our PM) NOW!!
And THAT's excactly what all Americans should ask concerning their President. Else the shame of America will take no end.

posted by TONE23:
Over zealous pursuit of self righteous reasoning for 'converting' the world to our ideology which is not even true democracy but treading dangerously close to corporate fascism.

When governments regulates corporations it's called Democracy
When governments controle corporations it's called Socialism
When corporations controle governments it's called Fascism
Pick your choice!

original quote by: kojac
Hence, we expect them to do the right thing. It's called leading by example.

And that... ladies and gentlemen.. is ALL I ask of our govt....

THAT should be the premium for ANY person on this earth to ask for.
"The people got the leaders they deserve" (Lao-Tzu)

posted by Agit8dChop:
Sorry for you RR, but being there are so many people willing to speak FOR the government, Id expect them to ALLOW me to speak AGAINST the government.

likewise if you start aiming criticism at MY COUNTRY, I will happily oblige to agree or disagree with you pending on the argument at hand. Its just that my small little countries affairs dont effect the outcome of the planet.

No, and therefore they are of no significant interest to the members of ATS.

Who cares about a tiny European country like mine, it's name more associated with a delicacy, than a country. IF taken for a country often mistaken for the capital of some other European country. (Sorry folks, but Yanks so ignorant)

Well, I don't care, doesn't hurt me, tells more about the beholder than the subject.
Nationalism (much like patriotism, the American way) runs high in my country these days. But when Muslims around the world burn my flag, I don't give a damn, it's only a piece of cloth - and it's their right to do so when dark orchestrate forces desecrate their faith.

But what can I do? I can write ...on ATS, ...on my blog, ...throw my opinions in the debate.
But you have to admit it, that debate is 99% centered round American issues. But please don't ask them to be ruled by the choice of pro-Bush Americans.
When debators throw in issues like "the beacon of Democracy" violating conventions long agreed upon, many of them with the prefix of Geneva, and doesn't act in accordance with other rules signed, most significant those of the UN, they are branded. But not on ATS I hope. Should anyone touching such issues be ridiculed, put in a subversive light, and by the rule of illegal war, eventually be labeled "terrorist" and treated accordingly?
Obsession or not, these are the issues to be debated - and just not from one point of view.