There are no secrets better kept than the secrets that everybody guesses.

There are no secrets better kept than the secrets that everybody guesses.
-George Bernard Shaw

I will start with a short introduction about what this thread is. This thread is about secret societies as well as the new world order, I have chosen to post it in the secret society forum, since this is, a continuation of a debate started in this thread.

All secrets are deep. All secrets become dark. That is in the nature of secrets.
-Cory Doctorow

Before I start, I would like to say that this is my field theory. There are facts and there is speculation, both are contained within this thread. I will do my best to emphasize what is theory and what that is fact.

The red line I ask you all to follow is the one of the secret societies impact on what we know today as the Illuminati: the creators of the agenda we know as the new world order.

So we can be clear from the start I will define some words, before you start to assault them independently.

Secret Society: A hidden vessel within a known body, an organization created with the sole purpose of controlling the masses and/or keeping information from the masses. I will not differentiate between the whether the agenda is pure or corrupted.

Illuminati: The name conspiracy theorist decided or falsely started to use as the unknown body that is supposedly behind the agenda of world domination and enslavement of the none-enlightened. When I use this word in this thread, I am not talking about the Bavarian Illuminati unless stated.

New World Order: Or New Order of the Ages is the agenda that the Illuminati have inscribed in the “corner-stone” or scriptures/secret teachings they adhere too. The New World Order is one of the secrets I believe that some but not all of the secret societies have as a hidden agenda.

If the facts do not fit the theory, change the facts.
-Albert Einstein

The reason I am interested in all this, is because if my great passion namely science. I have always been interested in the big questions and still am. Questions like:


Why are we “here?”
How did we get “here?”
What is “here?”


The more I researched and learned the more convinced I was that the civilizations of the ancient world all ready knew this, and teach this to the few select.
There are just too many “coincidences” in my opinion, great secrets like phi, the golden ratio, DNA, the movement of the planets in conjunction with the origin of the matter. We have secrets like the atoms and neutrons the movement of unseen objects, the complementarities, i.e. the Ying and Yang.

Through history it has always been the most advanced civilizations that have disappeared and almost leaving no trace behind for us to follow, this is why this thought of work is so hard.
It is almost like “someone” or “something” did not want us to learn or find out about these worlds, and the tremendous accomplishments the scientist of the old world made.

The Mayans, Babylonians, Sumerians, Egyptians, Persians, ancient Indians (I am not talking about the Native Americans here,) Greeks and Romans. It is almost too convenient for them to have collapsed at the peak of the accomplishments.
One could speculate that they had served their purpose; one thing I am sure of is that a pattern is visible through out all of these civilizations. The power structure was the same, and the people that invented/created that power structure have to have been the same. I do not find It plausible that we by luck learned the same basic information at almost the same time through out the globe, considering that modern science have mapped the migration from Africa and through Asia, over to America. (We only later, after the ice had gone colonized Europe.) So my conclusion is that either did we know this before we migrated, which I do not find very realistic, or someone taught this to a few select around the same time, in different parts of the world.
These “some” must have mapped the earth, and must have had a way to travel over the Atlantic. It has been proved that the Native South American had the technology to traverse the Atlantic, since trails of coc aine and cacao have been found in African bodies that has been dated to 2000 BC.
We also know that the Native South American had the means to create steel, which needs temperatures around 800 degrees Celsius to be processed.

What I am getting at with all this, is that we where far more advanced in ancient times that we are lead to believe, we mastered aerodynamics, thermodynamics, astrology, electricity, genetics, quantum mechanics and others, a long time before we invented this in the western world.

There are no evidence that Natural Disasters annihilated these ancient civilisation, on the contrary it seems that at their peaks, the power structure or ruling body where either taken by a “coupe d’état” or simply chose not to be anymore.


What have we learned about power?
Once you have it, you will never relinquish it.


So what I am theorising here is that someone must have possessed all this information along time before modern science will acknowledge. Someone taught this knowledge to a select few, the elite of the elite.
I believe that the body that are used for these teachings originate from northern Africa, and then moved to the Middle East and from there spread out to Asia and America.

This body is what we today know as; the mystery schools, Dionysian’s, Eleusian’s which later on turned into the body we know as Knights Templar or even more so The Free Masonry.

Why do I theorise this?
The same secrets and lore are being taught with the same ancient symbolic teachings.

Could the Free Masons just have picked this up to add some novelty to their fraternity?
Indeed they could, but I highly doubt that this chain is broken, it lasted for at least 8000 years, would be odd for it to gave fallen the last 500.
Moreover, how did the masons come about this knowledge, I hardly believe they plucked the idea out of thin air.

It is possible but not probable in my humble opinion.

Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
-Eric Hoffer

To be continued.



EDIT: BBcode and typo's


[edit on 25-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

WOW i must say even though i dont exactly share the same oppinions as you, i must say this is by far THE best put together theory i have EVER seen in my time at ATS. So much so i'm give you my vote for the Way Above. it's just FANTASTIC, Well done.

Now to all you theorists out there who just say masonry is evil they worship the devil, take some lessons from this guy. like i said before i may not agree with you on all your aspects but you sure deserve the award more then most people.

Well tetragrammaton, this is a great theory.

We have the theories and the facts. They all count up.
Isn't it time to stick our brains together and find a way to remove the power from these secret societies? SECRECY is their power.

Lets think together

A very good post, a lot of the questions I ask myself are similar to the ones you ask...
But for the sake of arguing, when you ask: why, how and what is here, my question to you would be where else, how else and what else is there than here? Where would you expect to be?
Are you saying that you believe there is an all encompassing secret that will open all the doors of wisdom at once and explain everything?

I am not sure, to be frank, that I understand what you are seeking to bring home, apart from the opinions of other individuals. There are no Martians we are all Humans for better or worst and broadly we have similar experiences.

The real nature of secrets is not that they are deep or dark; is that they are personal, intimate and sometimes cannot be taught to others. One can only give careful hints so that an other may construct an edifice.
You try telling a 7 year old boy the secrets of love making, he will think you have gone mad.

Mysteries have existed a long time, you are right, the great Plato, himself an initiate, has this to say:

-"And I fancy that those men who established the mysteries were not unenlightened, but in reality had a hidden meaning when they said long ago that whoever goes uninitiated and unsanctified to the other world will lie in the mire, but he who arrives there initiated and purified will dwell with the gods. For as they say in the mysteries, 'the thyrsus-bearers are many, but the mystics few' "- Plato, Phaedo, 69c

The point of Mysteries is that you should be given the correct framework on which to build understanding and knowledge of yourself, and this is what some so called Secret societies do. Christianity itself used to be a Mystery school.

It is a good thing that there is this counter position to the creed of the Catholic Church, we would be a much poorer society if we could only rely on one Holy Opinion.

Masons are in some form or other a very old Mystery school and have the Ancient way of training, some individuals are good and some are bad like in every other walk of life.

All this Illuminati and NWO is just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

(hoofbeats followed by a shrill whinnie)
Greetings Tetragrammaton
Yes, I too agree that this info has followed humanity throughout the ages

So what I am theorising here is that someone must have possessed all this information along time before modern science will acknowledge. Someone taught this knowledge to a select few, the elite of the elite.
I believe that the body that are used for these teachings originate from northern Africa, and then moved to the Middle East and from there spread out to Asia and America.

Do you believe the source of this knowledge to be terrestrial or "extra" in origin.
Is this possibly what the tree of knowledge symbolizes in Christian lore. Even though he is considered extreme fringe by some, I see parallels to the thinking of David Icke in your theory. (take this as a compliment, please!)
Not bad, you already have talk of WATS happening to you...

Originally posted by buddhaLight
Well tetragrammaton, this is a great theory.

We have the theories and the facts. They all count up.
Isn't it time to stick our brains together and find a way to remove the power from these secret societies? SECRECY is their power.

Lets think together

Buddha light. Being that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, once the "power" is taken, to whom does it now belong, and why?

Well after talking to King Lizard who was very helpful and saw potential instead of limits, I have decided to continue this thread.
I have spent the majority of this day compiling and creating a thought of library that are needed to understand what I write about in its fullest, this is primarily made for none masons because I am under the belief that what is on that page they have already read. If not I am glad I have been able to share some information with the masons that they did not hold for themselves.

Therefore, I apologize to all for the delay and I will start as soon as possible on the continuation of this thread, feel free to read up at this site while I create the next post.

I must warn you that I have spent no money on this site so arm your self with a pop up blocker and ignore the commercials on the side and top. I apologize for this inconvenience.

In addition, I would like to thank the ones that dropped a nice word or two in this thread; it is always a nice feeling, to have a little pad on the back.

Tetra,

Interesting ideas. Here are my own personal views in a nutshell:

There is no doubt that there are certain unethical people, many who are very wealthy, that crave power over people. However, whether or not they want a "new world order" is questionable, as they seem to be doing just fine in the world as it is.

Nor do I consider such people "illuminati", as they do not seem to be particularly illuminated about practically anything. It is unfortunate that the noble title "Illuminati" ever came to be associated with such people.

The true Illuminati are those who seek Truth, especially in the fields of morality, science, and philosophy. As far as they are truly illuminated, they seek such knowledge in order to benefit not only mankind, but all sentient beings (as was spoken by the Buddha, a true Illuminate).

As far as secret societies are concerned, I consider secrecy itself to be a symbol, like everything else in the initiatory system. In Masonry, the candidate vows to keep the secrets of whatever degree he's taking; after assuming the obligation, the secrets are then revealed to him. In a literal sense, the secrets seem to be a claptrap (secret handshakes, passwords, etc.) that would be unimportant and useless to the world at large anyway....unles they themselves were symbolic of even something else.

Nature is the great secret-keeper. Many of her secrets have been yielded up through quantum physics and Einstein's General and Special Theories of Relativity. Yet many more secrets remain, and it is my belief that it is these secrets that the secrecy of the secret societies symbolize.

I am not here to teach nor preach to the masses, I am here to share the information I have gathered be it true or false.
This is my life, and as such, this may collide with others, it is not my intention to neither disturb anyone nor make them feel unease.

Belinquest: I will answer each of your questions to the best of my conviction, though we are out in theory and not much can't be answered with facts, anyways here goes.

Where else?
Well anywhere else, it is true that the fundamental building stones for life, carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen where only a small percentage around 0.5% of our total mass is made of other chemical elements as zinc, calcium and iron etc. Are a necessity for life as we know it to recreate itself, this are known as a carbon life forms, since carbon is a fantastic chemical, it binds to other molecules nicely. Though we are not composed of very much carbon, only around 16 atoms out of 200 in other words around 7-8% of the human body are made from carbon, we are primarily made from hydrogen and oxygen i.e. WATER. Around 65% of the human mass is water.

However, the uniqueness of the individual I am sure can exist anywhere, and I am sure it does all ready.
For instance, quantum mechanics clearly states in conjunction with the special relativity theory that an neutron is every where at the same time, it is only physical when we measure it, when we aren’t looking it is a wave.
From this the string theory evolved this has some flaws, but otherwise explains the quarks nicely, what one could lead from all this is that for every possible thought and action a new verse is created. The problem is our conscious mind can only see one of these infinite possibilities, and this is quite logical, since if we could see everywhere our brain would overload from the massive input.

So to answer your question: “where else?” well everywhere else.


How else?

See above answer.

What else is their there?

Well the possibilities are limitless and as such, everything else is.
It is just in our universe these building blocks is thought to be a necessity for live to procreate, it is very possible that there are life forms where they live in between the molecules or even in between the quarks.
In addition, here in our universe to fathom something more familiar, it is possible for life to be quicksilver dependant and feeding of acid. Just because life as we know it is carbon based does not mean that life IS carbon based.

We have yet to define life, what is life. Well as a scientist (if I may call myself that?) I define that life is amino acids, proteins and DNA. This is what we refer to as carbon-based life forms.
As a theorist, I theorise life to be anything sentient, which means anything that is aware of its own presence.
As a believer, I believe life to be anything and everything; I believe atoms, neutrons, protons, electrons and quarks to be alive, though not sentient.


I hope this answers your questions if not just ask again, I am bound to get it right in one of these multi-verses.


Equestrian: Of course I believe the knowledge to be extra terrestrial, because I am sure that we are extra terrestrial, life originated on earth around 4 billion years ago, now you are probably thinking; but the earth is no more than 4,6 billion years old.
That is correct, hence the first life forms have to have come from space, I personally theorise that they came with a meteor.
This however does not answer the question, it only moves the answer away from earth, and thus I will have to say that the complexity of life has to have been created. The chances of a protein to create itself is around 10 and then followed by 260 zero’s that is a number larger than all the atoms that are in our entire universe.


Enjoy


EDIT: Removed the fnord!

[edit on 26-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

Just for fun i wanted to post the above mentioned number so here goes:

Chances of life creating itself by chance = 1:
1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000

Quite a number eh?


EDIT: the forum dimensions did not like all the 0's so i cut them up!

[edit on 26-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

Masonic light: Well you theory is much more probable if you look at the world as the majority of people does. The problem is that the problems they created In the first place is starting to ruin their own agenda, this is global heating, starvation, riots and wars etc. the new world order is their reset button, they have pressed it before I am sure, with the fall of other ancient civilizations.

You are right that the last thing the Illuminati is, is illuminated, however that does not stop them from thinking they are.

Therefore, in your words I am of the Illuminati.

I also consider secrecy to be like a symbol; also, I believe the symbolism to have many meanings, or layers if you please though I am sure that symbols themselves are a language, an ancient language that predates the spoken languages. I am also sure that the language of symbolism triggers messages and bits of information in your subconscious brain.

Nature is the great secret-keeper. Many of her secrets have been yielded up through quantum physics and Einstein's General and Special Theories of Relativity. Yet many more secrets remain, and it is my belief that it is these secrets that the secrecy of the secret societies symbolize.

I totally agree with you here ML. We might not be so far apart as some would like to think.

Tetra sounds extremely promising..

Defining the terms in your OP is a good idea, I think I will start doing this too if I ever start a thread… Semantics are often endlessly debated.

Also I hope that you aren’t too turned off about the copyright thing on ATS. It's totally normal for ATS to do this. You’re allowed to use quotes in reasonable amounts if you believe that it falls under fair use. (ATS is educational after all) If it’s relatively large sections then you need to paraphrase it. (time consuming) In both cases you have to give the source, usually at the very bottom, or top. (ps. the BB footnote tags don’t work on ATS) Think of it like a school paper, and you should be safe. I see you already figured out a way around the character limitation.
BTW, your site looks extremely promising, thanks. I have jumped straight to Index 19, as I happen to be interested in the Misraim rites at the moment.

Now for the topic on hand…

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
phi, the golden ratio,

Could you elaborate about those two, I’m afraid I don’t know what they are.

The power structure was the same, and the people that invented/created that power structure have to have been the same

.

However, example of identical power structures can also be found in nature. Wolves that have never met each other follow the pack mentality. Maybe an elite is met to exist and rule upon humanity? Nature seems to provide us with ample example of this.

Maybe if you defined what you meant more what you meant by “power structure”, than we can better decide if it’s more than mere instincts.

It has been proved that the Native South American had the technology to traverse the Atlantic,

Good stuff Tetra…

I have seen something about Egyptian boats resembling some boats found in South America. Have you seen this? Do you know anything more specific on this?

the power structure or ruling body where either taken by a “coupe d’état” or simply chose not to be anymore.

So are you saying that when a civilization makes a certain number of key discovery, the Illuminati sweeps in and cause the civilization to fall? Would you say our current civilization is approaching one of those peak? Is there an approaching coup d’état?

Once you have it, you will never relinquish it.

This can even be micro-observe in any pretty much any workplace environment.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The true Illuminati are those who seek Truth, especially in the fields of morality, science, and philosophy

ML, do you believe that any of the ~3000 Bavarian Illuminati members were true Illuminati?

Do you believe Freemasonry could contain the secrets to the origin of life? The blueprint of the NWO for the ages?

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
Masonic light: Well you theory is much more probable if you look at the world as the majority of people does. The problem is that the problems they created In the first place is starting to ruin their own agenda, this is global heating, starvation, riots and wars etc. the new world order is their reset button, they have pressed it before I am sure, with the fall of other ancient civilizations.

I think our difference here is that I must reject the hypothesis that they are somehow "in on it" together. Instead, they're all "me, me, me", and are unwilling to actual enter a conspiracy with others (although of course they make deals with each other). In capitalism, they would be concerned with their own profits, disregarding "unnecessary" expenses, which would lead to global warming, etc.

You are right that the last thing the Illuminati is, is illuminated, however that does not stop them from thinking they are.

I'm sure that practically everyone considers him/herself illuminated; but I think that the elite primarily consider themselves business people.

Therefore, in your words I am of the Illuminati.

I would consider the Illuminati to consist of anyone meeting the definition I gave earlier, regardless of membership or non-membership in any actual organization.

I also consider secrecy to be like a symbol; also, I believe the symbolism to have many meanings, or layers if you please though I am sure that symbols themselves are a language, an ancient language that predates the spoken languages. I am also sure that the language of symbolism triggers messages and bits of information in your subconscious brain.

I agree with all the above, with the sole exception that symbolism was used before spoken language. This is only because it seems to me that by the time the brain had evolved to the point that it comprehend abstract symbolism, the ability to form speech would have already occured.

However, I think you said something of extreme importance in your comment about information being stored in the subconscious, and that certain symbolism can awaken the conscious mind to it.

I totally agree with you here ML. We might not be so far apart as some would like to think.

I would not have considered us far apart in the first place, as you appear to have a mystical outlook on life, as do I.

Originally posted by Conspiracy NutML, do you believe that any of the ~3000 Bavarian Illuminati members were true Illuminati?

Perhaps some of them, especially Germaine and Goethe.

Do you believe Freemasonry could contain the secrets to the origin of life?

Yes, at least in the symbolism.

The blueprint of the NWO for the ages?

If the NWO exists, it would be all about capitalism, big business, and corrupt politics. It would therefore be antithetical to spirituality and mysticism, which is the basis of Freemasonry.



[edit on 26-9-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I think our difference here is that I must reject the hypothesis that they are somehow "in on it" together. Instead, they're all "me, me, me", …

brilliant, you got another WATS for your vast collection on that one, lol. That’s exactly what I believe the NWO to be, a loose affiliation of elite plutocrats.

If the NWO exists, it would be all about capitalism, big business, and corrupt politics.

And that’s exactly what they are. The privacy of a corporate boardroom has made the needs for nefarious secret cabals obsolete.

However, I think you said something of extreme importance in your comment about information being stored in the subconscious, and that certain symbolism can awaken the conscious mind to it.

Can one of you go deeper into this subject, this is fascinating

So why is it that many of today's top financial and political bodies use said symbolism to identify themselves? Is it indeed possible that these symbols have been hijacked for a more sinister use? Here is a short (4mins) video that illustrates my point. Oh and yes I am aware of the Texas Longhorns(you'll see what I mean.)
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Can one of you go deeper into this subject, this is fascinating

First let me begin by quoting Brother Pike:

He who desires to attain to the understanding of the Grand Word and the possession of the Great Secret, ought carefully to read the Hermetic philosophers, and will undoubtedly attain initiation, as others have done; but he must take, for the key of their allegories, the single dogma of Hermes, contained in his table of Emerald, and follow, to class his acquisitions of knowledge and direct the operation, the order indicated in the Kabalistic alphabet of the Tarot. - "Morals and Dogma", p. 777

The Tarot contains a profound symbolism that, in my opinion, Masonic symbolism echoes. However, some Masonic symbols have been corrupted over time by members of the Craft who were not Adepts, and thus had no knowledge of what they were tinkering with. Therefore, the Tarot is a more perfect source of symbolism, but is also the key that unlocks Masonic symbolism.

Outside of Masonry, I am a member of Builders of the Adytum, a Society whose aim is to explore Tarot symbolism for personal growth and enlightenment. Although the B.O.T.A. is a direct descendent of the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, it is not a "secret society" in the same sense as the Golden Dawn or Masonry, and operates more like an academic institution.

B.O.T.A. curriculum is based around the theory that the subconscious automatically responds to certain symbols due to what the psychiatrist Carl Jung called the race's "collective unconscious". Certain archetypes lie dormant in the subconscious until awakened, and the Tarot is an ancient tool, composed by Adepts and Magi of old, to assist in this process.

Each image of the Tarot is a picture that describes some aspect of the self. The 22 Trumps, numbered 0 through 21, also represent the 22 Letters of the Hebrew alphabet, for we are told in the Hebrew Scriptures that God created the Universe through the power of His Word, the spoken word being different arrangements of letters.

T give an example of the deeper symbolism of Tarot, every male figure in the Tarot represents self-consciousness, the "natural" state of the mind. Every female figure represents subconsciousness. This is also a hint as to the key to unlock the meaning of the allegory of Adam and Eve, as we are told that after the Fall, Adam "ruled over" Eve, who became submissive.

Further symbolism denotes that each angelic figure in the Tarot represents what is called "Superconsciousness" in B.O.T.A., or Samadhi in Hinduism, a direct experience of the Divine Presence. Demonic and animalistic figures in the Tarot represent what Freud called the "libido" and Reich called "orgone"...or, as the Hindus call it, "kundalini".

With even this very brief overview, one can find a world of interest in the Tarot symbolism. Take, for example, Trump Number 2, called the High Priestess, represented by the Hebrew Letter Gimel. She is female, and thus represents subconsciousness. She is also Isis, who is veiled; for in the Ancient Mysteries of Egypt, when the candidate was brought before image, concealed behind a curtain, he read engraved "I am Isis, the Mother of All. No mortal man hath ever Me unveiled".

The subconsciousness is "veiled" to our normal state of consciousness. Yet the subconscious is a direct ray of Superconsciousness.

On the image of the Trump, Isis wears a blue robe, which flows toward the lower right corner of the card, and turns into a flowing river. Each subsequent card shows this river flowing from left to right in the background, symbolic of the perpetual presence of subconsciousness. Also note that the High Priestess bears a Scroll: this is symbolic of subconsciousness recording everything we have ever experienced, even if our normal self-conscious minds cannot remember.

Such symbolism, if studied deeply enough, and with purity in heart, can lead the Aspirant to discover many mysteries in him/herself, as well as in Nature, of which we rea the reflection. As the Alchemists say, As above, So below.

CN23:
Thank you for the compliments as always ego boosting is a nice hobby, now lets get down to business.

Could you elaborate about those two, I’m afraid I don’t know what they are.

Well I actually made a typo phi is a Greek letter I was of course referring to Pi or π, which is the number 3.14, it does continue forever though, is the ratio of a circles circumference to its diameter.
The Egyptians used Pi when they build the pyramids, aswell as the ancient civilization of Indus valley and the Mayans.

The golden ratio is the number 1.61 (this also continues forever,) and defines all the things you see in the world, from an ice crystal, to a leaf to a human beeing, the golden ratio is one of the great secrets of the universe. Why nature adhere to the golden ratio we do not know, but it could be theorised that the molecules on a microscopic scale just likes to connect that way.
Moreover it could have something to do with the gravitaional prorportions of earth and is as such not something special any where else.

Pi however is universal, and I speculate that the golden ratio is as well, since you see, hear and feel it everywhere.

I believe that great knowledge is hidden away in these symbols, since the numbers came after, they are just another thought of language we use to define our reality.
There is nothing special about the numbers themselves, it is in relations to our reality they become very interesting.

However, example of identical power structures can also be found in nature. Wolves that have never met each other follow the pack mentality. Maybe an elite is met to exist and rule upon humanity? Nature seems to provide us with ample example of this.

Maybe if you defined what you meant more what you meant by “power structure”, than we can better decide if it’s more than mere instincts.

Well you wolf presentation is not valid, since the wolf’s have all met at one time, they didn’t evolve independently and share the same basic DNA.
Moreover every living thing share the same 90% DNA, you are 90% identical to a bacteria, DNA wise at least.

While at the subject of DNA: DNA is not something special the only thing DNA does is reproduce itself over and over, DNA in itself is useless without proteins to work for it, and you could say that proteins have no purpose but serving the needs of DNA.
Therefore, you could say that DNA and protein, would have been had to be created at the same time, in order to be here today.

Well when I speak about a power structure I am talking about the society that crowned the first king, appointed the first emperor, elected the first president. I am sure that the front figure thought of speak, is a puppet and has always been.

Now I am not talking globally, I am talking about the trace I see from Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Israel, Greece, Rome, France, England and America.
They then over time spread their influence, primarily through commerce and religion; there is not visible trace from Sumer, Babylon and Egypt to Indus Valley, China and America besides the teachings. No power structure that works by the same pattern, at least I have found no trace.
It could be ignorance on my part, since I have found little information about the dynasties and emperors of the east.

EDIT: ffs 4000 characters are for kindergarden.

[edit on 26-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

So are you saying that when a civilization makes a certain number of key discovery, the Illuminati sweeps in and cause the civilization to fall? Would you say our current civilization is approaching one of those peak? Is there an approaching coup d’état?

Well if I am right these teachings are ancient, and hence they look at the world they are controlling an manipulating with totally different eyes than the normal human.
They see us as cattle, and adhere to the entropy and energy law I would believe, since that is universal as well, so I speculate that when we hit a critical energy mass, they will make sure to turn it around and release most of it hence causing a great state of entropy a.k.a. disorder.
In my opinion, we are al ready seeing this happening as we speak the global agenda of mass control and manipulation is not a fragment of my imagination, the brainwashing media spews propaganda at maximum capacity, politicians constantly lies.
It has started, in my theory I believe that the Mayans undoing was calculating the next reset, this is linked to the movement of the stars in our milky way.
This is not something you are unfamiliar with; I believe we hit the novelty maximum around the year 2012.
I believe the coup d’état has already happened with Bush’s second election, we are aiming for more global conflict, polarization and hatred. And the government does nothing but encourage the escalating mistrust we have for our fellow human beings, their main weapon is fear, and has been proven to be the most effective weapon to control the masses.


Masonic Light:

I think our difference here is that I must reject the hypothesis that they are somehow "in on it" together. Instead, they're all "me, me, me", and are unwilling to actual enter a conspiracy with others (although of course they make deals with each other). In capitalism, they would be concerned with their own profits, disregarding "unnecessary" expenses, which would lead to global warming, etc.

Yes, I can very well understand your position it is rational and logical, that however does not make it right.
I could see the scenario you put up and find it most realistic if we consider human basic nature, though my paradox is as stated, if what you said was true the power structure would have inflated long ago, evidence suggest the opposite.

Who taught the Master? Who made the Master: Master?

Who told the higher truth to the first initiate climbing the stairs of enlightenment?

I am sure that what you propose is only correct up to a certain height in the echelon.

However, I think you said something of extreme importance in your comment about information being stored in the subconscious, and that certain symbolism can awaken the conscious mind to it.

Indeed, I did, and we both know this