Canadian Border Guards Flee Posts After 'Dangerous' Traveler Warning

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Apparently the Canadian Border Guard is about as effective in protecting their border as the Minute Men along the Mexican border are as far as protecting us!

Honestly I would be ashamed if the Border Patrol turned tail and run because the possibility of a dangerous mexican might come along. Where may I ask is the self respect a dignified nation as your selves should have??

Have you bothered to read the thread? This was a job action to force the gov't to enact changes to allow them to have the tools to do the job effectively.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by soficrow
Like when London bobbies just had night sticks, and British criminals didn't carry guns either.
.

Well most british bobbies DONT have guns, armed police are still a small unit and not the majority. I have never seen armed police in edinburgh or any major city except london and that was outside the US embassy standing in the rain.

Thanks for the response and info devilwasp.

Yeah civilization.

...Oh and, yeah intrepid.

It takes a good portion of the border patrol guards to walk away from a threat to get the government in action. Please. I would assume arming the men who "guard" the border would be common sense.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
ARM them. PAY them good wages. TRAIN them properly for border duty.

How hard is it for a government to understand that they have important and dangerous jobs?

Maybe its because Canadians have other priorities. Not everything revolves around whats best for the US. If this was job action I say yah to hell with the border, look out for yourself. If the big bad terrorists want in they'll get in, all they have to do is apply for student visas and pass legitimately thru US border checkpoints like some of the 9/11 terrorists did.

brill

[edit on 26-9-2006 by brill]

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Don't make sence to me, just one man, what the hell is he my equal or something, to scare away many people because he is "dangerous". Just a lone armed guy scared all them off, I doubt it.

Maybe he is contagious and is armed with a biological?

There is way more to this than is being released, and I doubt even the news groups know what.

One armed man can kill dozens of unarmed people. I wouldn't expect them to lay down their lives so they can keep the border open and traffic flowing. The fault, if any, lies with whoever decided that border agents could be unarmed ... it's probably a money saving decision. Armed gaurds would probably be paid more and definitely would have to go through more training on an ongoing basis.

If I worked with them and was told an accused murderer ... who was considered armed and dangerous was approaching my work area ... I would leave in a heartbeat. With no weapons or weapons training I wouldn't have the ability to save myself, let alone any other innocent civilians. Does the murderer realize the border guards don't have weaopns?? Probably not .. if he gets stopped by a uniform he's likely to attempt to flee and may use whatever force he feels is neccessary.

When we drove to Canada I never even noticed they weren't armed. It was a pretty painless process as a Californian to take a rental car from Seattle up into British Columbia. Took all of 30 seconds and a quick glance at my California License and I was on my way.

Originally posted by soficrow
Kudos to the union - but I yearn for the past.

Like when London bobbies just had night sticks, and British criminals didn't carry guns either.

...Seems to me that authorities set the tone for discourse, and confrontation. If we pull out the hardware we ensure that it will be met, matched, and used.
.

London bobbies may not be armed but from my visits to Canada ... all their law enforcement are armed like their US counterparts. I wonder how the bobbies respond to a call of an armed citizen? As we all know Americans love their guns and that means to adequately protect the public and police the criminals are law enforcement must be armed. Another difference is that the Canadian guards apparently don't have arrest powers. I'm not sure what that means legally in Canada's justice system bu here in the states it would mean they are not "sworn" personnell, only having the same powers of arrest as the general population.

Your comment on authorities setting the tone for discourse and confrontation. I'm not sure how you expect law enforcement to react to an "armed and dangerous" individual who is wanted for a murder. He's fled from one state, is headed towards another country ... maybe they should just let him run and he can come back when he feels fit to? I don't expect those who "serve and protect" to do so at an unneccessary danger to their own liveliehood.

I say give them M16's!!! As long as they don't drop them on the ground when they are running away.

~Candyman~

While trying to understand and accept Canada's attitude toward unarmed border patrols, I still wonder about why you don't arm them. Is it a philosophical thing? I would think that guns would be commonplace up there, given all the hunting that goes on.

I've heard people here say "It's an American problem, guard your own borders." An American problem? The border is an imaginary line; how can you think that way?

If an armed criminal manages to crash the border into Canada, can he just turn around and thumb his nose at the US?

What do your politicians say about this? They are in office because you put them there.

This situation was not created yesterday.

It's none of the US's business to tell you how to run your country, or how to defend it, but I wouldn't blame the US for anything they might do if Canada were attacked. And that includes turning our backs to those politicians who ignored the problem.

Also,

from Rockpuck
Apparently the Canadian Border Guard is about as effective in protecting their border as the Minute Men along the Mexican border are as far as protecting us!

You don't know what the Sam Hill you're talking about. To compare a voluntary group that performs exceedingly well with a foreign gov't group of employees that turned tail is ridiculous.

I find it interesting that keyboard warriors actually think this is wrong.

If you knew someone who was armed and dangerous was going to rob your spouses or childs place of work, would you phone them to tell them to get the hell out or leave them there as its their job to stay there?

It never ceases to amaze me how reactionary the majority of Amerikan posters on any thread that concerns Canadian security issues can be. This was a job action, pure and simple. No one "turned tail". Our government is as useless as yours, with the exception that they are less imperial minded due to the fact the Canadian people wouldn't stand for the crap that you people do. The border gets closed on this side because the guards "stood down", and their managers and the RCMP stepped in. No one got through, no harm no foul, with the exception of a few inconvenienced cross border shoppers. As an aside, i always lol when i here some hillbilly dip# talk about invading Canada.
Oh man, you think you've got trouble in iraq, take one armed step over the border bill bob joe bob......

Originally posted by jsobecky
While trying to understand and accept Canada's attitude toward unarmed border patrols, I still wonder about why you don't arm them. Is it a philosophical thing? I would think that guns would be commonplace up there, given all the hunting that goes on.

Nice stereotyping. How do you feel when people from other countries think Americans are armed to the teeth and are hell bent on world conquest and destruction?

I've heard people here say "It's an American problem, guard your own borders." An American problem? The border is an imaginary line; how can you think that way?

American border security is an issue for Americans, not Canadians. Canadians have nothing to do with American border security. People crossing the border INTO the UnitedStates never stop to see Canadian officials, so what control do they have? None. They control the flow of people and goods into THEIR country. Or is Canadian border security now an American problem?

If an armed criminal manages to crash the border into Canada, can he just turn around and thumb his nose at the US?

Yes, they can. That individual would require extradition to be returned to the United States. For prrof, see the Charles Ing case that dragged out for years. Extradition laws were such that as soon as he set foot on Canadian soil he was protected as California wanted him for a death penalty offense.

It's none of the US's business to tell you how to run your country, or how to defend it, but I wouldn't blame the US for anything they might do if Canada were attacked.

Yet we continue to do it each and every day to Canada, and pretty well every other country around the world.

Also,

from Rockpuck
Apparently the Canadian Border Guard is about as effective in protecting their border as the Minute Men along the Mexican border are as far as protecting us!

You don't know what the Sam Hill you're talking about. To compare a voluntary group that performs exceedingly well with a foreign gov't group of employees that turned tail is ridiculous.

Actually, its you who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. The Minute Men are an embarssment and a major problem. The sooner they get out of the way the better. They have created more than a few law enforcement headaches in my State and they are not welcomed by law enforcement in any shape of form.

Originally posted by DEATHKNELL
It never ceases to amaze me how reactionary the majority of Amerikan posters on any thread that concerns Canadian security issues can be.

It never ceases to amaze me how reactionary the majority of non-American posters are on any thread that concerns American security issues.

However ... border security between America and Canada DOES concern Americans and it isn't just a Canadian security issue.


Ya'll are just going to have to train and arm them for MODERN border security. The world is changing. It's much more dangerous than it used to be. Sorry. It may go against the grain up there .. but that's the world we live in now.

Originally posted by The Iconoclast

Originally posted by jsobecky
While trying to understand and accept Canada's attitude toward unarmed border patrols, I still wonder about why you don't arm them. Is it a philosophical thing? I would think that guns would be commonplace up there, given all the hunting that goes on.

Nice stereotyping. How do you feel when people from other countries think Americans are armed to the teeth and are hell bent on world conquest and destruction?

Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about, "stereotyping"? There has to be a reason why their gov't does not think it necessary to arm their border guards. They have got to be one of the very few unarmed patrols in the world.

So keep your baseless conclusions to yourself. I never stereotyped.

And I could give a rats a$$ about what the whiners of the the world think about us.

American border security is an issue for Americans, not Canadians. Canadians have nothing to do with American border security. People crossing the border INTO the UnitedStates never stop to see Canadian officials, so what control do they have? None. They control the flow of people and goods into THEIR country. Or is Canadian border security now an American problem?

That has got to be one of the most naive statements I've ever read on ATS. Countries that are neighbors and allies should work together.

It's none of the US's business to tell you how to run your country, or how to defend it, but I wouldn't blame the US for anything they might do if Canada were attacked.

Yet we continue to do it each and every day to Canada, and pretty well every other country around the world.

What's the reason for such a ridiculous statement? Do you just feel like typing tonight? Or do you typically slam the big bad USA?

Actually, its you who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. The Minute Men are an embarssment and a major problem. The sooner they get out of the way the better. They have created more than a few law enforcement headaches in my State and they are not welcomed by law enforcement in any shape of form.

I doubt very much if what you said about law enforcement is true. Unless you live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts or someplace similar.

The Minutemen enjoy enormous support from the overwhelming majority of the American public, from law enforcement that aren't afraid to do their jobs, and from politicians who care more about the rights of American citizens than the ones that illegal immigrants claim for free.

You want them to "get out of the way"? Why? Are they an obstacle in the way of criminals and those who profit from that fact?

Originally posted by Flyer
I find it interesting that keyboard warriors actually think this is wrong.

If you knew someone who was armed and dangerous was going to rob your spouses or childs place of work, would you phone them to tell them to get the hell out or leave them there as its their job to stay there?

You're misunderstanding my position, at least. I'm not blaming them for leaving - I just want to understand the philosopy behind them not being armed.

Jsobecky.. I was not insulting the Minute Men, calm down man.

Do the Minute Men arrest people? Are they armed (they arn't advised to but under state law can be)? Are they actually preventing ilegal imigration in a physical way? No.. no to all those questions. They same goes for the Canadian border protection. And as for your statement the law enforcement enjoys their company, that is not a fact, the fact would be law enforcement don't want them there and are just waiting until there is a confrontation between the MM and an ilegal imigrant. Most likely the result will be MM sueing Border Patrol. They are supported by alot of Americans, including myself.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It never ceases to amaze me how reactionary the majority of non-American posters are on any thread that concerns American security issues.

Really?
It shouldn't suprise you at all. America is on the global center stage. We're all watching internal affairs because we know damned well that US internal affares are reflected in US foren policy.

More over, this isn't a US security issue.

However ... border security between America and Canada DOES concern Americans and it isn't just a Canadian security issue.

As I said, this isn't a US security issue. The way border security works is that we watch out side, you watch yours. We co-operate when needed, but the duty is still only to watch your own side.

This issue is partly about an Armed and Dangerous American rushing an unarmed Canadian checkpoint. Our problem. Shutting down all US to Canada traffic was defiantly one way to handle the problem. If no one can cross, he can't cross.

That said, it was mostly a labor dispute issue.
Our guards have been pushing for the right to be armed and the ability to arrest for a long time now. They saw this problem as a way to drive their point home. Under Canadian law, you cannot be forced to work in a dangerous enviroment unless you are properly equiped and trained to deal with that enviroment. Our gaurds simply aren't, so they took job action.

Ya'll are just going to have to train and arm them for MODERN border security. The world is changing. It's much more dangerous than it used to be. Sorry. It may go against the grain up there .. but that's the world we live in now.

This is true. What needs to happen is a new department for border security that is chartered as a police force.

This is not a good thing, tho.
You see, until now the reasoning for keeping a rather casual border guard is because we have historicly consitered the US our trusted friends. As a matter of principle, Canadians generally don't like to point guns at our friends.

The fact that we now need guns on the US border is meaningful.


As a side note, our guards are seriously sick of being slandered and libeled in US mass media. To believe the US stories, we don't have any meaningful security and we allow "terrorists" to waltz into our country unchecked by the truck/plane/boat load.
That's friggin insulting.

Total and utter speculation here , but perhaps something was being moved across the border into canada .
I'm sure 60 customs officials leaving their posts would leave a gap of some sorts .
Especially if one of those stations were pretty much in the middle of nowhere (perhaps)
this obviously would leave an area where you could move (anything) across that you didn't want people to see being transported.
If this has been mentioned before I digress , read the first page of the forum and wanted to put this idea across as quick as it came to my head

Originally posted by Scotlandshope
Total and utter speculation here , but perhaps something was being moved across the border into canada .
I'm sure 60 customs officials leaving their posts would leave a gap of some sorts .
Especially if one of those stations were pretty much in the middle of nowhere (perhaps)
this obviously would leave an area where you could move (anything) across that you didn't want people to see being transported.
If this has been mentioned before I digress , read the first page of the forum and wanted to put this idea across as quick as it came to my head

The article said the crossing were closed since because they closed the crossings when the left. Traffic was backed up for hours. I don't think there is a conspiracy at play here ... just a group of people who would like to continue living and breathing for a few more days.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I doubt very much if what you said about law enforcement is true. Unless you live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts or someplace similar.

The Minutemen enjoy enormous support from the overwhelming majority of the American public, from law enforcement that aren't afraid to do their jobs, and from politicians who care more about the rights of American citizens than the ones that illegal immigrants claim for free.

You want them to "get out of the way"? Why? Are they an obstacle in the way of criminals and those who profit from that fact?

Guess what buddy, I work in law enforcement in Arizona, so I have a very good idea about what I am talking about. How about you STFU about stuff you know nothing about. The Minutemen are an embarassment and a hinderance to us doing our job. They are NOT helping the situation in any way. The hinder our enforcement efforts, destroy crime scenes and compromise physical evidence. They are working outside to constructs of the law and do not aide us in any fashion. When the law is clearly defined in how we have to treat people that are captured trying to enter into the country illegally these clown do nothing but make our lives more difficult.

"Ya'll are just going to have to train and arm them for MODERN border security. The world is changing. It's much more dangerous than it used to be. Sorry. It may go against the grain up there .. but that's the world we live in now."

Yes, thanks to imperial dreams of a bunch hypocrites, that is the world we live in now. And regardless of the nonsense that said bozo's propagate like so many flies on #, we aren't the target, we aren't the facilataters of those who do target you, and while your own ambassador to our peaceful little corner of hell deems it necessary to tell our politicians to tone down the rhetoric, your politicians have no problem spewing same if not more so.

Iconoclast, i have to admit that i never would have thought i would be in agreement with a cop of any stripes, but there it is.