Pentagon Struck By Enhanced SLCM/BGM-109A Tomahawk Missile

Originally posted by Terral
C. Those using Bush are ready to bring in their “New World Order,” which the American People will NEVER accept, unless we are subjected to the growing Chaos spreading from the Southwest to the rest of this once great country.

Money shot, right there. "Those using Bush" very well spoken. Anyone thinks that Georgie boy is capable of managing all this evil all by himself is sadly mistaken. Just a patsy, manipulated by unseen forces. Nothing to see here folks.

Terral, I love you man. Great to see you back amongst the living, and keep your analysis coming, you seem to know your stuff.

If you can take it a step further please do, there are no non-disclosure agreements here.

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Truth4hire]

Terral is one paranoid,derranged individual.Why do you want it to ba a missle I don't get it?It was plane!!!!!!!!!!!! to many people saw this thing hit the pentagon.I dont need proof everyone here has seen plenty of eyewitness testimonies.Why the hell would they use a missle?Any person with half a brain wouldnt use a missle in such a highly populated area,give me a break.

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Samblack]

Ok I did a little research on this subject of Jet...vs....Missle theeory

First off,there were light poles on the highway and a fence/generator that was most likely hit as the plane passed by that were clipped as the plane entered the vacinity of the Pentagon,if a Missle hit a lightpole would it continue on course?Probably not. Anyway here are a few pics.I'm sure there are more pic's out there but I just don't feel like wasting my time in something so obvious.

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

Now we have a few pictures of debris.There were many other pictures,I just didnt feel like uploading them.Now I know that some of you are going to say that some of this debris was planted.I dont know about you but it's kind of hard to plant evidence when there are atleast 100 people watching.Some of these pic's are so obvious that i swear some people are obviously blind.

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...


Ok,now I know alot of you assume that if it was a plane,then where are the wings because the entrance hole is to small for the wings to fit through.Granted I couldnt find many pictures to address this issue but I found a few.

These first few pictures show what is considered to be the trajectory of the airliner as it entered the Pentagon.It came in at an angle,at this angle the Right Wing would of pretty much been destroyed by the fusalage and the explosion because of the angle at witch it entered.
img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

As far as the left wing and engine go, this first picture shows that the engine would of more then likely entered the building.The other pictures show that the wing either entered the building or got pulvarized as you can clearly see where the wing hit the building and even exposed beams.

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...


Now we get into the the amount of witness that there were during this horrible event that killed alot of people.I found a few pics that were taken about 1 minute after the crash,wow look at all that traffic.This doesnt even count the number of witness that just kept driving or are out of picture.

img.photobucket.com...

img.photobucket.com...

And here are a few testemonies of eye witness.If this isnt enough witness I don't know what is.

urbanlegends.about.com...

home.planet.nl...

www.ratical.org...

911research.wtc7.net...


Thanks for reading this post if you had the patience,there is alot more evidence out there but I think I found enough to get my point of view across.








[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

Hi Longbow, Snoop and WithoutEqual (mentioned):

Longbow >> Well, to all you people who still produce those conspiracy theories - don't you think it would be extremely risky to attack Pentagon with something other than 757 and then claim it was the airliner? Just ONE person with camera who would capture approaching cruise missile, Global Hawk or I don't know what would COMPLETELY RUIN the whole story.

Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that your words above represent an ‘opposing view’ in this debate? This kind of rhetoric represents deflection tactics by someone with NO hypothesis for what actually did strike the Pentagon on 9/11. The reader should pay very careful attention to this kind of testimony to try and understand the position and attitude of Americans continuing to hide behind their OWN DENIAL. This is a huge problem for the ATS Investigator to overcome in assembling and analyzing ‘all’ the facts in this case. Some of those witnessing the massive explosion on the day of 9/11 continue to access stored data in their own minds from the DoD / Bush Administration ‘cover story,’ which Longbow insists is the “whole story” in his testimony above. The ATS Investigator should anticipate this kind of reaction from a public assaulted everyday by the Bush Administration / Media ‘Opinion Molding’ Propaganda Machine. Americans are caught in the crossfire of two massive campaigns to mold public opinion that “Osama Did It” AND that our “War On Terrorism” must be fought in the Middle East against brown people. The Propaganda Machine in this country works to isolate spheres of influence into passive positions, while creating the illusion ‘their cover story’ is accepted by the majority of Americans.

Jeffrey A Tucker gives you a peak into how the Bush Administration / DoD molds public opinion for their desired outcome, by retracing publicized events leading us into the war in Iraq.

www.lewrockwell.com...

Jeffrey A. Tucker >> “For the most part, the intellectual classes are not buying into the war line . . . Regardless of the handful of intellectuals willing to do the state's bidding in this case, the success of war propaganda depends on convincing the masses in such a way that public opinion swamps the opinions of the intellectuals – making the intelligentsia feel outnumbered, isolated, and passive.”

The readers of this thread must forgive me, because my “smokescreen training” began way back in the mid-1970’s, when my uncle introduced me to a book called “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” by former congressman Gary Allen. This site ( reactor-core.org... ) includes chapter 3 on the “Two Governments” working inside the USA and how international bankers and power manipulators really run the show. Therefore, I see a much different America than many Americans reading this thread, which makes me immune to their smokescreen and propaganda methods and devices. Only one aspect of this investigation requires you to gather facts from all the evidence. The other even larger part is also making yourself immune to the trickery of the true ‘terrorists’ and their propaganda schemes working in unison to bring in their New World Order right under our noses.

Longbow >> That, my fellow board members is too big risk for every secret service to take. No mentally healthy person would approve such covert action.

The events of 9/11 themselves teach us that mentally and morally unsound people are conspiring together to attack Americans on their own soil. While some of you might believe my finger pointing towards Rothschild, Warburg, the Bilderbergers ( www.mystae.com... ) and their Council On Foreign Relations (CFR) and Trilateral Commission proxies is completely unjustified, I can assure you all the events transpiring on 9/11 are connected to bringing in their NWO through a shadow government almost nobody here has eyes to see. Are we to run our own name calling campaigns against members like Longbow, Snoopy and WithoutEqual for adhering to the official DoD / Bush Administration cover story? No sir. They are simply the victims of a very complicated and comprehensive Propaganda Machine (PM) working overtime through the Media to mold their opinions and create the desired “denial, denial, denial” reaction patterns on full display in this thread. This well developed PM is forcing Americans to adopt the DoD cover story as their own ‘personal opinion,’ which people ‘are’ willing to defend; even armed with no evidence to prove anything. Therefore, we must resist the emotional knee-jerk reaction response to call our debating opponents all kinds of names while insulting their intelligence and ‘person.’ We must always keep our noses on the hot trail highlighted by “the evidence,” so the facts in the case gain more resolution than the smokescreen of our enemy.

Those among you with no smokescreen training at all MUST take the time to educate yourself in this area AND take the leap of faith and trust me, until the time comes when you can stand alone and actually see the enemy through his propaganda. The reason you must be willing to take this position is understood by the absolute fact that the ‘true terrorists’ are hiding behind that smokescreen and THEY want you to believe their ‘cover story,’ to avoid being caught by the bright headlights of suspicion. If Bearded Jihad Radicals pulled all of this off (they had nothing to do with 9/11), and Terral is Dead Wrong, then you are no less or more informed by my testimony. However, IF I am 100 percent correct and the true terrorists are indeed working inside our own government, then you and all Americans are much more vulnerable to future attacks from the same ‘behind the scenes’ terrorists hiding behind the official cover story.

If the “denial, denial, denial” reactions of Longbow, Snoopy and WithoutEqual are indeed right on (and they are NOT), then you are no worse off for walking with me for the amount of time it takes to view ‘all’ the evidence in this case. I am NOT counted among those in denial trying desperately to lull you into rolling back over and back to sleep. You are being called to “Wake Up” and see our enemy AND his manipulation of his proxies, so you also will become immune to his devices.

GL seeing it,

Terral

Oh yah 1 more thing that I did not add to my post.I wasnt sure if were allowed to post dead bodies in these forums but I've got a few picks of those to,even 1 body that is still strapped to an airline chair.

Actually I refuse to post these due to me being morally correct.

And another.


Yah it must of been a missle?To bad none of these people agree with you Oh they must of been kidnapped and brainwashed by the boogie man to not say anything Shhhhhhhhh......
img.photobucket.com...

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

Hi WithoutEqual:

Actually I anticipated more resistance to my Missile Thesis than is currently being presented on this thread. Please allow me this opportunity to welcome anyone currently in denial of the facts to join me as a new ATS Investigator in this case. My hypothesis, this thread and this investigation are all based upon ‘the facts,’ which certainly point to the conclusion that the official DoD cover story is a boldfaced lie! This is not about me being right and you being wrong. It is about comparing the evidence to the official cover story and drawing our own conclusions. I hold absolutely no animosity or hard feelings against my brothers and sisters holding opposing views. All I ask is that you be willing to present those opposing arguments with ‘evidence’ that unbiased third party ATS Investigators can verify to duplicate your own personal conclusions. To sit there in the stench of denial, denial, denial with NO hypothesis and certainly NO conclusions on what did strike the Pentagon on 9/11 adds NOTHING whatsoever to this debate. In that case you are far more wise to be counted among the ‘readers’ of the thread representing those comparing our opposing arguments and judging US BOTH!

Terral Original >> Every topic has its own “Doubting Thomas,” . . . But your attitude makes a guy like me wonder.

Without’s Reply >> Look kid, I doubt your theory as much as the govt's for the simple fact that both arguments have huge holes in them that would be ripped wide open even by a half ass law student.

Heh . . . Fine. However, your testimony includes nothing in the way of ‘ripping’ one thing from my “Missile” hypothesis and nothing in the way of counterproposals. Perhaps you fail to realize how and why this casts a very bright light on your reasons for writing on this thread. This is like everyone here witnessing a bank robbery and I know for certain who did it, how and why. However, in my finger pointing, you pop out of the crowd and start the rant, “They did not do it!” No matter how much evidence I present in this case (tons more to give partner), then you continue pointing at ‘my’ answer in denial, but apart from one shred of evidence proving otherwise. You talk about ‘huge holes’ like that means something. What holes? Are you referring to the 16’ X 20’ impact crater left on the front of the Pentagon wall by the exploding Tomahawk Missile, OR the smaller hole in the far Courtyard wall created by the tumbling nose section coming apart after the initial explosion?

Everyone please go here ( bedoper.com... ) and down to Figure 3:10 (Impact Location Before Collapse). Remember our CNN reporter ( thewebfairy.com... ) verified the upper floors fell some 45 minutes after the initial impact. Look through the Pentagon where the Tomahawk Missile exploded just behind the West Wedge outer skin of the building to blow out the first larger hole to take out many of the supporting columns just inside the structure. You are sitting directly along the flight path of the Missile where approximately 700 pounds of warhead exploded just inside the building. The Missile traveling 550 MPH at impact created a shockwave released in all directions, but the inertia of the Missile focused a wall of debris along the same flight path. Note the hole in the far wall revealing the Courtyard, which was caused by the nose section of the Missile coming apart and taking building debris with it at the very same time. The chart below that picture (Fig. 7.9 showing “Hole in wall”) shows the second hole along the flight path, which should be present for my “Missile” hypothesis to have any traction at all. Figure 6:2 (Damage to columns . . .) shows the official cover story to be not only improbable, but very much impossible; because 124’ of Boeing 757-200 centered on the impact crater would have damaged the columns directly in front of the starboard (right) wing. No sir. The damage to the Pentagon is consistent with a “Missile Attack” and you have been encouraged to poke holes in my analysis of ‘the evidence’ from the very beginning. Go ahead . . . make my day . . .

Without >> You [Mod Edit] must have water on the brain to call me a DoD cover story operative, ya know, considering I HAVE NEVER ONCE DEFENDED NOR ENDORSED THE GOVT POSITION.

This fact casts the bright light of suspicion on you more than if you tried to sell the cover story. The fact that you have presented no counterproposal (Oh, the VW bug theory; my apologies . . . Heh) makes ATS Investigators wonder what you are indeed hiding! What evidence do you possess that proves my “Missile” explanations DEAD WRONG, that also proves the official cover story wrong?? Everyone here is mighty anxious to know how ‘WithoutEqual’ is interpreting the facts in this case. When I look at your avatar, it says, “I’m American through and through,” with the bald eagle and “Liberty” with stars and all the fancy trimmings. This is the kind of façade we should expect a potential (note my careful chose of terms) DoD operative to use for perpetuating the Bush Administration “denial, denial, denial” agenda. The bright light of suspicion is going to continue following you around, until WithoutEqual clears himself by giving us ‘his’ explanations on how these two holes and subsequent debris field were created at the Pentagon on 9/11. Personally I do not see you EVER showing us your hand. Why? Because you are OBVIOUSLY hiding something by refusing to state your case. If WithoutEqual was working for me inside DoD headquarters, then he would be loading cargo planes in Alaska by now. At the very least have something ready that indeed matches ‘the evidence’ in the case, BEFORE you begin the ‘deny, deny, deny’ tactics.

Without >> You CTers seem to call everyone that don't endorse your theories disinfo agents, DoD operatives, NSA CIA, NBA whatever. You CTers also seem to love never ending circular debates.

Heh . . . My position is that your tactics (not your person) are those of a DoD operative sent here to “deny, deny, deny” any explanation that seeks to discredit the official cover story. That in no way asserts that WithoutEqual is towing the line for their ridiculous “Flight 77” hoax. You are mischaracterizing my presentation of opposing views to the official cover story as “never ending circular debates.”

[Continued]

Get real dude! If you cannot offer a better explanation for the evidence being presented, then have the common sense to say nothing and hope nobody pays attention. At least this avenue affords me far less of an opportunity to shine the light of suspicion on you and everyone else “denying, denying, denying” my explanations. Since your position in this debate is being shown to be weak, feeble and even nonexistent, then your best ploy is to simply go away; because you and I know for certain you NEVER intend on offering a single explanation for the mounting pile of evidence that DOES support my original “Missile” premise. People running Sites like this ( www.oilempire.us... ) have taken the time to gather and weigh all the evidence in this case with eyes focused on the “Big Oil,” the “Homeland Security Police” and “Economic Warfare” and most importantly the “War Game Exercises” ( www.oilempire.us... = Michael Rupert’s work) coefficients intact. Mr. WithoutEqual’s notion of evidence is “deny, deny, deny,” while offering nothing in the way of evidence at all.

WithoutEqual >> While you folks debated every single point in the JFK case that either didn't matter, or couldn't be proven, the murderers got off scott free. YOU HEAR ME NOW? THIS TYPE OF DEBATE, THE WAY YOU GUYS APPROACH THESE THINGS HELPS THE BAD GUYS MORE THAN YOU HURT THEM.

No sir. Who are you pointing to being the ‘bad guys?’ Are you now trying to prop up the official ‘cover story,’ by intimating that “Osama Did It,” or are you officiating over the “deny, deny, deny” agenda of a true DoD operative?? What reasonable ATS member who simply disagrees with my “Missile” explanations is going to start ranting about JFK and other totally unrelated cases? Does he know the same people who murdered JFK are also responsible for the 9/11 attacks? Hmmmm . . . The plot thickens . . .

Without >> THAT'S WHY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS THE JFK MURDER IS STILL UNSOLVED, AND THAT'S WHY IF I VISITED THIS SITE IN 10 YEARS I'LL SEE YOU SAME PEOPLE, DEBATING THE SAME EXACT THING OVER, AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. ENJOY GOING NOWHERE WITH YOUR CAUSE.

WithoutEqual appears to be having a hyperactive reaction to the mounting “Missile Attack” evidence being presented in this case, which seems odd for a fellow having no explanations of his very own. Some of us already know the enemy and the methods and devices of his trickery, deception and agenda. WithoutEqual seems very afraid of others coming to the same knowledge, which would make his superiors down at headquarters very unhappy indeed. He knows like I do that the evidence in this investigation leads to much more than just an explanation of what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. You can bet the house that the nearer we get to a full explanation of the evidence in this case, that Mr. Deny here will be using more and more CAPS revealing his own anxiety and frustration! Why should our resident DoD operative (the jury is still out) feel any disquieting anxiousness at all in this debate? He has not even presented a theory of his own for anyone to adopt or even begin to offer arguments against. This is the sign and tactic of a pawn towing the line for some other principal or agenda, under the pretense of a public safety announcement. All I see in this guy is someone sinking even more quickly in the quicksand of his own futile ranting.

Without >> Oh and one more thing. When someone disagrees with you, or says your evidence will take you nowhere,
and you call them an intel agent it kills you're legitimacy to a point where most people won't take anything you say seriously.

Heh . . . Really? If I were trying to characterize your flimsy and even surprising testimony as that of an ‘Intelligence Agent,’ then my first order of business would be to prove your case has some sign of being Intelligent. However, I cannot honestly point to that kind of evidence, because your ranting does not include any explanation of the facts AT ALL. An ‘intelligent’ adversary in this debate would be armed with something much more substantial than ANYTHING you have to add to this topic. The Bush Administration has handled their part in the cover up like a bunch of country bumpkins who could not find their backside with both hands on a clear day. They have failed to surround themselves with anything resembling ‘intelligent’ advisors, which looks more like a ‘who’s who’ of NWO puppets and proxies than anything else; willing to run over Bush like a redheaded stepchild (no offense; Heh, you now what I’m driving at). I am happy to allow those willing to wear the ATS Investigator cap AND our third party judges in this debate to weigh all the evidence and draw their own conclusions. If they are moved by your lack of evidence and ranting, then they had little desire to know ‘the truth’ on this matter anyway. I appreciate your diversionary tactics, because that will weed out the wishy-washy types with no stomach for this kind of investigation. God knows we do not need their whining along with yours . . .

Without >> So you can thank yourself, for shooting yourself, and your cause in the foot. Which makes me wonder, what's your agenda, who do you work for?

I serve “The Truth, The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth” on this or any topic I feel compelled to write about. This case and the WTC – 7 collapse ( 911research.wtc7.net... ) represent the two smoking guns leading straight back to the true terrorists, who like “The Truth” remains very much “At Large.”

Without >> Cause statements like your's show desperation, and immaturity which hurt your cause more than a DoD operative ever could. Makes it alot easier to call people a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing kids. You are, your own worst enemy.

Heh . . . Really? For your information, my kids have kids of their own and ‘your’ side of this debate his no evidence to offer and no explanation for what did happen to WTC-7 or the Pentagon on 9/11. I got up this morning in anticipation of answering your thoughtful replies to my three part post to you yesterday. However, I was met with disappointment because you obviously have no reply at all. What is WithoutEqual’s explanation of the evidence for what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11??

GL in the Debate,

Terral

Hi Samblack:

Heh . . . Your tiny post made me throw my head back in laugher so hard, that I almost tipped the chair back and fell over. Please allow me to correct your spelling errors that were obviously drafted and posted with great haste.

Samblack >> Terral is one paranoid, deranged individual. Why do you want it to be a missile. I don't get it? It was plane!!

A what? My evidence of the facts in this case include a 16’X20’ impact breach on the eastern wall of West Wedge 1, with a corresponding impact opening on the far Courtyard wall and a large debris field present between them. Please offer any evidence that a Boeing 757-200 with over sixty tons of aluminum and massive Rolls Royce engines impacted the Pentagon. If you have some other theory, then please offer that evidence to support your conclusions above.

Samblack >> Too many people saw this thing hit the pentagon. I dont need proof everyone here has seen plenty of eyewitness testimonies.

Oh yes you do. If the ‘evidence’ in this case supports ‘your’ conclusion, then you will have no difficulty at all presenting those things for the benefit of everyone here. What kind of plane hit the Pentagon? Do you have a single photo of the impact from the massive jet engines that should have taken out large sections of the West Wedge 1 wall??? What evidence is there that these two massive engines damaged the columns supporting the structure outside and inside the Pentagon? Go to Catherder’s thread ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) and down to the darker diagrams showing the dimensions of the Jetliner. Note carefully the “24 foot 0 in” dimension from the center of the wheels on the landing gear and that our massive engines fall very much outside that dimension. The part of the Boeing 757-200 with the highest density is the twin Rolls Royce engines traveling at about 500 miles per hour. Your 20’ wide hole in the West Wedge 1 outer wall is smaller than the dimension between the wheels. There is absolutely no Jetliner debris anywhere near the Pentagon and no room within the tiny 16’X20’ hole to accommodate over 100 tons of Jetliner; even if someone found over 60 tons of aluminum, engines, seats, baggage, etc., inside the Pentagon. I see your ranting, but see no evidence to prop up the official DoD cover story at all.

Samblack >> Why the hell would they use a missile? Any person with half a brain wouldn’t use a missile in such a highly populated area, give me a break.

Your questions point to an ATS member without all the facts at his disposal who is willing to draw conclusions anyway. Please sit down and look at all the evidence, apart from the testimony of anyone here. Who is “they” of our query above? Is your mind filled with images of a group of angry Islamic Radicals with box cutters? Heh . . . No pilot on earth could maneuver this Boeing 757-200 pig through a 16’X20’ hole at the base of West Wedge Pentagon wall where over 100 tons of Jetliner simply disappears!!! I believe you have NO IDEA of the mammoth size of one of these Jetliners and the absolute futility of your case. I encourage anyone seeking ‘the truth’ on this matter to simply take a visit to his local International Airport to take a gander at one of these bad boys that stands almost fifty feet tall, 125 feet wide and 155’ long on the runway. They hold between 11 thousand and 12 thousand gallons of fuel with a maximum takeoff weight of over 250,000 pounds (from Catherder’s specs). Remember that ‘your’ theory says about 250,000 pounds of Jetliner impacted the Pentagon at about 500 miles per hour and left a 16’X20’ hole! Now sit there under the pretense of holding all the facts in this debate, while the rest of us have no case at all. No sir. The rest of us are waiting for our debating opponents like you to “Wake Up!” and realize the absurdity of your theory, so eventually the seeds of truth are allowed sufficient water and light to somehow overshadow your previous convictions.

GL seeing what is obvious to thousands and thousands (including Jason Christie = bedoper.com... ) on this topic.

Terral

Hi Samblack:

Samblack >> Ok I did a little research on this subject of Jet...vs....Missle theory

Please forgive, but I am more likely to be convinced by a fellow ATS Member who can actually spell the term “missile” correctly. Your post includes long lists of links without your own interpretations in direct violation to Board Posting Guidelines appearing above every empty Reply Box.

”MEMBERS: Do not simply post news articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of current events, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item.”

My response should be given against ‘your opinion, twist or take’ of the evidence, which can be interpreted by ATS Investigators to support directly opposing theories. In short, cutting and pasting a mile of links is a poor substitute for actually sitting down to lay out a solid case.

Sam >> First off,there were light poles on the highway and a fence/generator that was most likely hit as the plane passed by that were clipped as the plane entered the vacinity of the Pentagon,if a Missle hit a lightpole would it continue on course?Probably not. Anyway here are a few pics.I'm sure there are more pic's out there but I just don't feel like wasting my time in something so obvious.

img.photobucket.com...

Heh. Never try to present ‘evidence’ from your personal photobucket.com account, unless they represent your personal diagrams pointing to other supported resources. The reason we use third party references in this kind of investigation is everyone has the same access to that information. The images in this personal photobucket archive can be taken from anywhere and altered to represent anything you like. My evidence is given from independent third party sources that prove I never had the opportunity to alter or misrepresent anything. Therefore, the third party judges should throw out any evidence from your personal archives. Simply lead us to the original information with links and allow the judges to interpret that information in the context through which the original author is using them. A little detective work shows your picture was taken from here ( www.freedomfiles.org... ) half way down the page. The Author’s explanation of “Pole 1” is directly opposite to yours, saying,

”The thing I find so interesting about this picture is the glass on the pavement in proximity of the pole. A jet going roughly 400 MPH hitting the pole and the glass from the light lands near where the pole is. The glass should have shattered the instant the plane hit the pole and land in a totally different area. This pole looks like it was just tossed into this position. What is also interesting in all the pole pictures is that the poles seem to have snapped off at the base. The mid section of the pole isn't even bent or dented, which is where the maximum stress would be as the pole bends.”

My personal analysis of this phenomena is answered by the presence of the “shock wave” generated by the missile itself ( www.fluidmech.net... ). You guys should knock yourselves out ( www.fluidmech.net... ) educating yourself on the realities of “Shock Wave Diffraction” associated with “Fluid Mechanics” at Cambridge. This phenomena of severing light poles at the base and selectively dispensing the accumulated debris into a single pile is connected to the ‘bow shock’ around the Missile and the ‘reattachment shock’ ( www.fluidmech.net... ) created by the obstacle itself. Note how M. S. Cramer’s diagram shows the little circle spiraling on itself adjacent to the obstacle, as the ‘reattachment shock’ is created by the obstacle itself.

The naturally occurring ‘bow shock’ is present in bullets passing through the air or even your boat passing through the water, which allows dolphins to hitch a ride. However, when this naturally occurring shock wave strikes an obstacle, then force is transferred from the ‘bow shock’ wave to that obstacle, without the actual missile ever coming in direct contact. The light pole in the picture became the obstacle in Mr. Cramer’s diagram that caused it to be pulled in one direction at the speed of the missile, but then in the opposite direction; as the ‘reattachment shock wave’ began to form. This kind of bow shock wave is present around the ‘nose’ of the missile and indeed any 757-200 Jetliner. However, a downward trajectory affecting this light pole from a fifty foot high Jetliner would certainly leave evidence on the pristine lawn of the Pentagon. The three light poles in the picture below your choice appear in the path of the starboard wing of your mystery Jetliner; that MUST be flying lower at that point of the decent, than when Pole 1 was ripped from the ground. The Pentagon in the background looks like the victim of a Missile Attack, as no sign of Flight 77 is present anywhere.

Please lose the photobucket evidence and give us the sources of your evidence first hand.

Thank you,

Terral
----------
PS. the 'cass' link on my last post on Page 2 is not working. Here is the full link:

(www.cassiopaea.org...)

cut and paste yourself if the shortened (I hate that) version below also fails to work.

http:
//www.
cassiopaea.
org/
cass/
boeing.
htm

The "Radar Gap" information says Flight 77 never made the eastern leg of that trip and that is where the Tomahawk Missile enters the picture. GL.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Terral]

You know I'm right ,that's all I have to say......no more response's for you my friend.

And my "tiny" post makes alot more sense then your's ever will.Just prove's that I don't have to write a book like you do to prove the fact's that did happen.

And again, what about these people?I don't think they believe your missle theory,lol.

img.photobucket.com...

The truth hurt's ,although it should not.

[edit on 2-10-2006 by Samblack]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Samblack]

Hi Samblack:

Sam >> You know I'm right ,that's all I have to say......no more response's for you my friend.

No sir. If your plane theory had one chance in a million of being right, then we would be looking at tons of debris in and around the Pentagon on 9/11. We know Sam is denying the truth that the Pentagon suffered a Missile Attack on 9/11, which all the evidence in this case verifies.

Sam >> And my "tiny" post makes alot more sense then your's ever will. Just prove's that I don't have to write a book like you do to prove the fact's that did happen.

No sir. It simply means you have no case for any Boeing 757-200 Jetliner ever being near the Pentagon on 9/11 or any other day. You are showing everyone pictures of light poles and other nonsense. Where is 100 tons of plane?? Engines? Seats? Cargo? Heh . . .

Sam >> And again, what about these people? I don't think they believe your missle theory, lol.

What people choose to believe is completely up to them. The facts in this case say a Missile struck the Pentagon on 9/11 and the DoD Flight 77 Cover Story is simply a hoax.

Sam >> img.photobucket.com... The truth hurt's, although it should not.

You forgot one thing. Where is the plane? Heh . . . The Pentagon looks like it was struck by a Tomahawk Missile like this:

Tomahawk Missile >> www.fas.org...

How do you explain the fact that our CNN reporter standing in front of the Pentagon on 9/11 ( thewebfairy.com... ) says,

“From my close up inspection, there is NO evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon . . .”

The only thing that hurts is seeing a fellow ATS member sleepwalking under the delusion that over 60 tons of aluminum, tons and tons of engines, cargo, seats, etc. all vanished into thin air. More and more people are coming to see the truth that the Pentagon was struck by a well placed Missile on 9/11, even if you are counted among the very last to see it.

GL,

Terral

Terral, argumenting by ONE news report that came shortly after the crash in full confusion by the reporter who wasn't even there during the impact and his close-up might have at best been from the highway isn't proof of much. This way you can argue the Allies have landed in Normandy two days before the "official story" because ONE reporter (oh well, not even reporter but an operator) prematurely broadcasted the message.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by snoopy
You might want to do some research beyond conspiracy sites who will only post anything that makes for a good conspiracy. Try not using sources that cherry pick information to make a pre determined conclusion.

So what sites do you want me to use, the ones you provide links to?
Oh wait you didn't supply a link, did you..

So c'mon where are these thousands of witnesses? Probably in the same place your 'liquefied' wings are, nowhere...

Pre-determined conclusion? Sry but that term has already be used to describe the NIST report, try something like 'independent research with no reason to be biased'.
Something the government as failed to supply, I wonder why? Don't you?

I do know what a troll is, and you make a good example of one. All you do is post exaggerated claims, uneducated opinions, lies, and offer nothing to back up your claims.

Maybe you should learn to read some of these 'cherry picked' conspiracy sites, take the info and make your own mind up. Instead of doing nothing but trying to discredit everything that questions, or makes you think (scary idea huh?) something is wrong with, the official version of events. If you can't see holes on the official story by now you are either brain dead, in absolute denial, or lying for the government.
Sry but someone who questions nothing about 9-11 is very suspect in my eyes.

What sites do I think you should use? Ones that don't have a single goal of presenting a conspiracy no matter what. Sites that are not biased and misleading. Sites that aren't known for lying to people.

Where are the 1000s of witnesses? Are you seriously ghoing to imply that during morning rush hour there were no people sitting in their cars on the highways? Every day traffic is bumper to bumper and on that day you are going to suggest the roads were empty? Likewise I bet you can only find quotes from a few hundred people about the WTC 2nd attack. Yet not even you can argue that millions of people witnessed it. Are they all documented? Of course not. So you8 found a site that collected a few quotes and just conclude that those are the only people who were there? What kind of research is that??

Clearly no one, including yourself, can deny that there were thousands if not 10s of thousands of people there that day at that time. now if there was a missle, don't you think at least a couple would have come out and said something? Are we really to believe that thousands of people are all keeping quiet or that every one of them mistook a missle for a commercial plane? So let's not kid ourselves about what does or doesn't exist here.

The NIST report is not a pre determined conclusion. Trying to fit a missle into the theory which does not fit is. Claiming there are no plane parts when they are everywhere, but then concluding it was a missle which has not parts anywhere at the Pentagon is.

Clearly you do NOT know what a troll is. Because you seem to think a troll is anyone who disagrees. Go learn what a troll is and then use the term appropriately.

I have read those CT sites, and I have made up my mind not just based on them, but based on all the information they intentionally leave out to mislead people. That's the problem with those sites. One cannot make up theiir own mind based on them because they don't provide accurate or complete information. This is why everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room. It seems no matter how many pictures of debre from a 757-200 is posted, you guys are still denying that a plane could possibly have been there. yet instead you guys claim a missle must have been there despite there being no remains of one, and the damgage not being consistent with a missle strike.

BTW it's very ironic that you would call me a troll. Once again if you were to look up the definition, you would be very ammused by your childish insults. But one would have to resort to childish name calling when their argument cannot hold water. You have every right to your "magic" missle theory, but that doesn't make it right. When someone can provide some real evidence, then we will talk.

Hi Snoopy, ANOK:

What sites do I think you should use? Ones that don't have a single goal of presenting a conspiracy no matter what. Sites that are not biased and misleading. Sites that aren't known for lying to people.

How about if we simply use the PICTURES from various websites and provide our own commentary on the EVIDENCE??? What the “PLANE Hit the Pentagon” Theorists fail to realize is that there are NO PICTURES of any Boeing 757-200 anywhere near the Pentagon on 9/11 or any other day!

What does the evidence say?

Picture #1 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

The photo on the top rights shows initial damage to the West Wedge wall, before the second and subsequent floors collapse. Do you see any sign of 100 tons of Jetliner? No. Why not??

Picture #2 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

This second photo also shows damage before the floors fell some 45 minutes after the initial attack ( CNN Reporter on the scene = thewebfairy.com... ). Note the round hole where the missile penetrated the wall to explode just inside the Pentagon, which caused the damaged columns to lean back in our direction (three orange tilted columns right of the hole). However, if you place the silhouette of your mystery 125’ wide Jetliner on its belly entering the building, the cable spools are sitting directly in the flight path. How are these bent orange columns even present, if 100 tons of Jetliner passed through this small hole???? Remember that your mystery Jetliner is almost 50 feet tall. Look the picture over really good to verify that NO evidence of any 100 tons of Jetliner is present anywhere!!! The very highest dimension you can give the mystery attack object is about twenty feet, because that is the distance from the ground to the top of the second floor; and that height is only possible if the ‘center’ of the attacking object is centered on the hole. The fact is that my missile exploded inside the Pentagon just beyond that hole, which is why the columns are bent back in our direction and debris is found ejected back towards the cable spools. Try to measure the distance from the top of those spools to the bottom of the red line over the top of them and realize that distance is only about five or six feet.

Picture #3 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

The first of these two pictures simulate Flight 77 centered on the hole identified in Picture #2, but the second and subsequent floors have already fallen. The second picture shows the Pentagon wall before the floors fell. If a 125’ wide Boeing 757-200 impacted the Pentagon at 500 miles per hour, then how do you explain such a small hole? Look at our cable spools directly in the flight path of the starboard engine, while remembering that only 5 or 6 feet of West Wedge wall was damaged above those spools in Picture #2 above. How did the engines of your 100 ton mystery PLANE impact the Pentagon wall without leaving any evidence whatsoever?? How did any Jetliner strike the West Wedge wall so low without moving the cable spools or even leaving a single mark on the pristine Pentagon lawn?? These pictures had to simulate the impact of a Boeing 757-200 Jetliner, because NO such evidence is present at the Pentagon anywhere.

Picture #4 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

The top picture shows the firefighters on the scene, but no evidence at all of any 100 ton Jetliner. The second picture shows the fire enlarging inside the growing hole behind our untouched cable spools. Do you see any sign of a Jetliner? No and neither does ANOK, Terral or any other ATS member. Your PLANE Theory requires you to give us ‘evidence’ to support that hypothesis. What makes anyone in their right mind believe 100 tons of Jetliner is hiding in either of these pictures???? Both of these photos have every sign of a Missile Attack, which leaves no 100 tons of Jetliner in the equation anywhere!

Picture # 5 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

I see fire and I see smoke, but where is your mystery 100 ton Jetliner? Carefully examine the third picture (above “I wish my lawn . . .”) with the firefighters dragging their hoses and note the presence of the standing columns beyond the cable spools. Where did your 100 tons of Jetliner go?? It is obviously not inside the building, because that would require 100 tons of Jetliner to simply pass through these solid objects and they clearly remain standing at this juncture of the timeline. Are the firefighters having difficulty maneuvering around 100 tons of Jetliner outside the Pentagon? No, there is no Jetliner even present! This is what the scene of the aftermath of a Jetliner Crash looks like:

Picture #6 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

Do you see any of this kind of evidence on display at the Pentagon in ANY picture by ANYONE?? No. Why not? The PLANE Theorists continue to base their theories on the size of ‘holes’ and pictures of the Pentagon after the fire has damaged large sections of the West Wedge wall; even though none of them can produce a single picture with any sign of any true “Jetliner Debris.” We are not talking about bits and pieces DoD agents ( www.worldnewsstand.net... ) can pick up with their bare hands. The reader must bear in mind always that a Boeing 757-200 contains 60 tons of aluminum alone; not to mention the massive engines that weigh tons all by themselves. We should expect small debris to be present on the Pentagon lawn, because a Tomahawk Missile just exploded inside the West Wedge wall and some of the debris was ejected back in our direction. These suited DoD operatives are removing all signs that a Tomahawk Missile struck the Pentagon.

Picture #7 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

This is perhaps the most damning evidence of all against the PLANE Theory. If 100 tons of Jetliner with 60 tons of aluminum exploded over the top of these spools, then someone explain how the black plastic coating remained unaffected??? Do you see any sign of tons of melted aluminum anywhere in this photo?? No. Do you see sufficient room in the wall behind the spools to accommodate our 100 ton Jetliner? No and neither does this ATS Investigator.

[Continued]

[edit on 6-10-2006 by Terral]

The lawn around these spools still shows signs of being green, which would be impossible if five to ten thousand gallons of kerosene had just exploded directly over it. The black plastic covering on these cables remained intact, because the Missile exploded just inside the Pentagon wall; which allowed the exterior wall to shield them from the original blast. Note the debris is ejected back in the direction of the spools, when 100 ton Jetliner going 500 miles per hour should have carried all of this debris into the Pentagon and the opposite direction! Look beyond the spools again at the red hot fire inside the Pentagon an compare that to the environment around the spools. Tell me this looks like ANYTHING other than the aftermath of a Missile Attack.

The simple fact is that none of the PLANE Theorists can produce a single photo of Flight 77 anywhere near the Pentagon on 9/11 or any other day. They have been duped by the ‘opinion molding’ campaigns of the DoD Propaganda Media Machine casting images of the planes striking the Twin Towers, while connecting those events to create the “Fight 77 Hit The Pentagon Hoax.” Somewhere down the line ATS members like Snoopy were convinced to make this HOAX their own “opinion” and they are sticking to that opinion no matter what the true ‘evidence’ and ‘facts’ say in this case. What are these DoD operatives ( www.worldnewsstand.net... ) hiding in the tarped box? Look at the picture below that one (with dump truck) and tell me why the lawn was removed, when the pictures above show the lawn was never affected in the attack? They are working on the lawn, instead of the broken building in the background! Why??

Citgo View >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

This Citgo station with its security cameras are positioned to be perfect eyewitnesses in this case, but where are the security tapes that prove 100 tons of Jetliner impacted the Pentagon?? What is the FBI and the DoD hiding??

Snoopy’s posts are filled with talk, talk and more talk, but he has no evidence to prop up his “PLANE” Theory at all. The ATS Investigator must grill him over the coals and ask him to reveal whatever evidence he has to PROVE HIS CASE! He obviously believes 100 tons of Jetliner impacted the Pentagon on 9/11 for SOME GOOD REASON – right?? Okay then. Show us that evidence and stop thinking we are going to be moved by YOUR OPINION that does not even begin to match the facts in this case.

GL,

Terral


[edit on 6-10-2006 by Terral]

Once again, tons of pictures of the plane parts:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh look, plane parts inside, plane parts outside, plane parts everywhere. Kinda different when you don't use a few pictures that obscure parts huh?

Yet you haven't provided a single picture of a missle.

PS - once again. please not the perdue engineering computer anylisys video.

I forgot to add:

fire.nist.gov...

Thaqt should put the "not a shred ov evidence" claim to bed between those two links. Even if you choose not to believe it (your entitled) you cannot continue to claim there isn't a shred of evidence.

God..it never ends...a plane hit the pentagon...there are photos of airplanes seats and engine the size of a truch near the hole...it has already been proven that a plane hit the petagon the exact match as a bowing. Good grief, whoever thinks a missle hit the pentagon is seriously delussionally crazy or on drugs.

A missle will do serious damage, not weak stuff like the pentagon.

Snoopy:

Snoopy >> Once again, tons of pictures of the plane parts: www.abovetopsecret.com... Oh look, plane parts inside, plane parts outside, plane parts everywhere. Kinda different when you don't use a few pictures that obscure parts huh?

LOL. Pasting a link to Catherder’s disinformation thread means nothing in this debate at all. I provided you with seven groups of pictures showing great detail of the West Wedge wall on 9/11 and NONE of them bear any evidence of a 100 ton Jetliner anywhere. The most damning evidence appears in these two pictures:

Terral Original >>

Picture #2 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

This second photo also shows damage before the floors fell some 45 minutes after the initial attack ( CNN Reporter on the scene = thewebfairy.com... ). Note the round hole where the missile penetrated the wall to explode just inside the Pentagon, which caused the damaged columns to lean back in our direction (three orange tilted columns right of the hole). However, if you place the silhouette of your mystery 125’ wide Jetliner on its belly entering the building, the cable spools are sitting directly in the flight path. How are these bent orange columns even present, if 100 tons of Jetliner passed through this small hole???? Remember that your mystery Jetliner is almost 50 feet tall. Look the picture over really good to verify that NO evidence of any 100 tons of Jetliner is present anywhere!!! The very highest dimension you can give the mystery attack object is about twenty feet, because that is the distance from the ground to the top of the second floor; and that height is only possible if the ‘center’ of the attacking object is centered on the hole. The fact is that my missile exploded inside the Pentagon just beyond that hole, which is why the columns are bent back in our direction and debris is found ejected back towards the cable spools. Try to measure the distance from the top of those spools to the bottom of the red line over the top of them and realize that distance is only about five or six feet.

Picture #7 >> www.worldnewsstand.net...

This is perhaps the most damning evidence of all against the PLANE Theory. If 100 tons of Jetliner with 60 tons of aluminum exploded over the top of these spools, then someone explain how the black plastic coating remained unaffected??? Do you see any sign of tons of melted aluminum anywhere in this photo?? No. Do you see sufficient room in the wall behind the spools to accommodate our 100 ton Jetliner? No and neither does this ATS Investigator.

Does Snoopy have one thing to present against this evidence? No. He posts a link to Catherder’s “PLANE” Theory that does NOT fit the facts at all.

Snoopy >> Yet you haven't provided a single picture of a missle. PS - once again. please not the perdue engineering computer anylisys video.

Listen to the guy totally consumed by his own “PLANE” Theory to the point that he makes these ridiculous statements. A Tomahawk Missile is creatively designed and built to EXPLODE and inflict the maximum amount of damage with the smallest amount of warhead. Your foolish statement is like asking for pictures of the dynamite that blew up the vault in a bank heist! "Oh, there are no explosives here, but only signs of an explosion." D'oh! We are not looking at the Missile anymore, Sherlock, we are looking at the gapping gash it created by exploding inside the Pentagon to start the enormous fire. The Missile went “boom boom” and the same DoD who launched the ‘self inflicted’ attack picked up all the itsy bitsy pieces ( cover up >> www.worldnewsstand.net... ) to ensure nobody linked them back to the crime through the evidence ( www.worldnewsstand.net... ).

You have some nerve coming to my thread and shouting “Yet you haven’t provided a single picture of a Missile!,” when your “PLANE” Theory requires you to produce one picture of the ghost 100 ton Jetliner! The Tomahawk Missile weights about one ton after the seven hundred pound warhead detonates and even less concerning the fuel was probably almost spent. Even the casual reader of this debate can recognize the fact that my Missile Explanation requires no 60 tons of aluminum or the massive Rolls Royce engines to be found anywhere near the Pentagon, which matches the facts in this case precisely. This is what the typical Jetliner crash looks like ( www.worldnewsstand.net... ) with TONS AND TONS of debris scattered everywhere.

The opposite situation exists for Snoopy’s “PLANE” Theory, because Boeing 757-200 Jetliners are purposely designed NOT to explode in crashes and to stay together and save lives at impact. Crashing into a building does not cause 100 tons of Jetliner to simply vanish into thin air! However, something did indeed strike the Pentagon on 9/11 and that something was concealed in the debris created by the explosion itself, until the final stages of the ‘cover up’ could be carried out by the DoD operative agents in the pictures above. However, the question remains concerning why anyone would join the ATS team of Investigators on this Board trying to wade through the ‘evidence’ to solve the case to only sit back and recant the “Official DoD B/A Cover Story!” Why??? Why would anyone in his right mind come here to chant the DoD mantra, when he cannot produce a single picture showing his “100 Ton Jetliner” NOT engineered and built to explode into a kazillion tiny pieces? That “WithoutEqual” guy had all the signs and markings of a DoD operative working among the ATS Investigators, but he had the common sense to simply go away. This Snoopy character does not appear to be as crafty as WithoutEqual, but his motivations in light of the evidence (or his lack of evidence) are coming from the same direction.

Anyone holding the “Missile” Explanation has no reason to present any ‘Missile Photos,’ and to ask us to provide them is beyond the realm of ridiculous. However, since the “PLANE” Theory requires someone to show us 100 tons of Jetliner, we have every right to continue asking for that kind of evidence; which NONE of them can provide from any source. Next time bring ‘evidence.’

GL,

Terral