USS Iowa: that will teach the Iranians a lesson

I was lucky enough to work on the USS Missouri and the USS New Jersey as part of a DeCom crew and put the ships in 'mothball'.(Puget Sound Naval Shipyard,Bremerton Wa.)

Very impressive ships.I remember seeing how thick the armor plating is in the superstructure and in the massive 16" guns.Very very thick steel.I dont think Iran has much in its arsenal that could sink one of these wagons,the phrase 'pipe the sweepers' comes to mind.

That being said,I have also worked on other Cruisers and DDG's.The firepower on these ships are just as impressive as the Iowa Class BB's.(minus the cannons of course)


If anything the delpoyment of a BB to a hostile region would pose more of a fear factor than a feasable threat.

If anything the delpoyment of a BB to a hostile region would pose more of a fear factor than a feasable threat.

That's the whole idea of using them. You want the other guy to be thinking...."OMG!!!!", when one of these ships sails into harbour, so to speak. The idea of having 9 16" guns and 21 ready to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles, plus God knows what else ready to be aimed at your positions, is what we want to put the mickey up them. Then, as with Iran's case, you've got to commit half your navy just to put some black scorch marks on the side of the damn thing would make you think (more than) twice before you decided to do anything.

Seriously -

There is absolutely no freaking way the US Navy (or US Government for that matter) would re-commission a Battleship (Unless we had virtually no other choice). As previously mentioned the ship is way to expensive to operate - a fact which I see some of you shrug off. Defense financing, contrary to what you guys may believe - is not unlimited. Trust me - I know. I hear it about all day from our Supply Guys about the lack of money to get decent saftey gear. And thats of right now!

Secondly, this boat is primarly used as a suppression weapon. As imaginitive as some of you are - the shells on this ship do not create tons of damage. They were effectively used off the coast of japan to instill chaos and confusion by means of suppression. That is all. Not very useful in our modern age of cruise missiles, which leads me into -

We already have ships that carry cruise missiles. There is no need to re-commission one to accomplish that goal.

Also - When ships deploy to the persian gulf - they deploy in Battle Groups. One Carrier (usually) a couple of frigates/destroyers/cruisers etc. A BG is a fearsome sight - take it from someone who's made THREE 6 month deployments to the gulf. Yes thats correct - 18 freakins months in the sweaty hot persian gulf....err...n/m i disgress.

ANYWAY..lol... one battle ship would do nothing. The Navy relies on a simple phrase to describe our current naval power - Power Projection. A Huge Battle Group sitting off your coast ready to blast you to kingdom come is much more of a threat then an aged Battleship.

- zeeon






FEAR THIS !

[edit on 24-9-2006 by zeeon]

Most of us agree about the battlegroup, with a battleship at its core. To be honest, I was under hte impression that cruise missiles were pretty expensive, too. And if you're going to be spreading around serious damage, doubly so.

DE

Why should the US teach Iran a lesson? Did it ever attack US? NO! Has it ever threatened the US? NO! Is it threatened by the US? YES! Does Iran have lots of oil? YES! Does the US governement like proling war? YES! Who benefits of this war? Miltary industrial Complex, Oil bussinesses and Multinationals! Who is the victem in this possible war? People of Iran! Soldiers of US who are told they are fighting a worthy cause, just like in Iraq!

I'm telling you, there will be a major false-flag terror-attack before the end of oktober ... there's no other way the US governemtn would get the public opinion to want to go to war with Iran! Be aware of false flag terror! Don't let the bastards grind you down! We are not lemmings!

Yet, maybe there's is nothing we can do about this, "some say it's just a part of it, we've got to fulfill the book ..."

[edit on 25-9-2006 by kris44]

Originally posted by kris44
Did it ever attack US? NO! Has it ever threatened the US? NO! Is it threatened by the US?

[edit on 25-9-2006 by kris44]

Let me guess Kriss 44....you went to public schools yes???

I am curious as to what you call seizing a US Embasy??? Is that not attacking the US??? Keeping American personel for over 400 days??

I doubt that they teach that kind of thinking in public schools today.

While I am not in favor of having a shoot out with Iran...I think you need a makeover or something like that. I think history with you probably stopped at the last super bowl game. American Idol...et al.

By the way...these guys seem to be threatened by everything and anything. They too need a makeover...


Thanks,
Orangetom

LOL, public school, super bowl, idol, ... always taking judgements ... you just prove my point about American people being prejudging ...

I am Krs, a 27yo University graduate in history from Antwerp, Belgium. I've been tot the US 3 times. Have a lot of American friends (my dad grew up near Green Bay, Wisconsin). Don't start #-talking to me because I am Belgian, I do not approave what my government sais, I AM NOT the Belgian governement and have my osn principals and ideas just like the 11 million other Belgian people over here.

The capturing of the US-embassy has nothing to do with the situation in Iran right now. That's total nonsens.

By the way don't talk to me like you know me, I don't even like "American football" so shut up about super bowl, it's stupid, you people are shocked because of a nipple! That's hilarious and very narrow-minded ... DO NOT JUDGE ME!
I play soccer!

what do you mean makeover?

What country is the omst hated in the world? USA
Why? Because it has a very aggressive foreign policy!
Did Iran ever invade another country and Nuked it? Did Iran ever throw napalm on 2000 villages? Did Iran ever bombed 6000 innocent Cambodian civilians to get even with the Soviets cause they manned Egyptian fighter planes? Nope!

Who's the conditioned person now huh?! Aske questions, demand answers!

Some of you American's are truly ignorant and you are living on a different planet. What some of you American's need is a taste of what it was like living through world war 2 during the blitz and getting the crap bombed out of you, then you might may be less reluctant to wage war if the well being of your own citizens and country was at stake.

During the Blitz, over 2 million houses (60% of which were in London ) were destroyed and 60,000 civilians were killed with 87,000 seriously injured. Of those killed the majority lived in London . Until halfway through the war more women and children in Britain had been killed than soldiers.

GiantPanda1979 wrote:

I say send over a few more battleships!!! I honestly belive that if we go to war with iran it will end up being just like iraq. A quick Victory! The only thing we should do different is not stay and try to put a puppet govt in there. We should bomb every radar tower then hit them with some good ole american "shock and awe". After that we can send a few abrams in to clean up the mess. Even better, lets just save the gas and let 8 good marines do it instead. Man, I thought we send the message out with Iraq...guess they didnt get the memo

A quick victory, what planet you living on. You haven't won the war in either Afghanistan or Iraq. American soldiers are still coming home in body bags and with the exception of the capture of Saddam Hussein, none of your goals have even been achieved. I guess the loss of life is just one big joke to warmongers like you. Sitting at home hiding behind your keyboard and talking tough while the soldiers you sent to war are dying. I bet you've already signed up for the war in Iran not!!!!!!!!!!!! You wont be laughing when Bush brings back the draft and your on the first transport to the middle east.

If America attacks Iran I can guarentee youu this. You will no longer have any allies left in this world including Great Britain. All you will have is enemy's knocking at your door.

Your reap what you sow

Sow any more wars and you shall have war on your own door step.

Hugo Chavez summed up the Bush Administration. He's the devil incarnate and while he's in power, all you American's are nothing more than his minions to be used and abused. Solution unite together and remove this immoral prick from power before he ends up destroying the whole planet and humanity along with it.

well ... i do agree in with kris44 in some way ... but what i feel the u.s goverment is trying to do is stopping a potential threat ... right now iran may not posed a threat to the u.s . But if iran equip itself with nuclear weapon it have the gut to confront u.s or any other country by Nuking them ? ... by the time it will be to late ... From what i feel , iranians are extremist just N.korea ..but right now both countries it not a threat but they may pose serious problem in future ...

Originally posted by kris44
LOL, public school, super bowl, idol, ... always taking judgements ... you just prove my point about American people being prejudging ...

I am Krs, a 27yo University graduate in history from Antwerp, Belgium. I've been tot the US 3 times. Have a lot of American friends (my dad grew up near Green Bay, Wisconsin). Don't start #-talking to me because I am Belgian, I do not approave what my government sais, I AM NOT the Belgian governement and have my osn principals and ideas just like the 11 million other Belgian people over here.

The capturing of the US-embassy has nothing to do with the situation in Iran right now. That's total nonsens.

By the way don't talk to me like you know me, I don't even like "American football" so shut up about super bowl, it's stupid, you people are shocked because of a nipple! That's hilarious and very narrow-minded ... DO NOT JUDGE ME!
I play soccer!

Kriss44,
I dont watch soccer or American football. I dont watch football of any kind. You made a statement about attacking America. YOu dont like the answer. You have some issues. Also Americans judge alot of things. Americans are also not intrested in taking on the values of the rest of the world. Do not assume what your values are in Belgium are for us here.
"Shocked because of a nipple." You cannot be serious here. That is the best your university mind can do.??? Thinking Americans would call that despiration. Sorry olde man but come up to speed and leave the histronics back at university. There are enough histronic students here taught by the same histronic professors on the same program you have over there. This type of histronics is also what some politicians here would use on us too...and call this excellence. We would judge them too.

Telling or implying that others should not judge is a sign of insecurity. You should know enough by your university education to understand this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by kindred
Some of you American's are truly ignorant and you are living on a different planet. What some of you American's need is a taste of what it was like living through world war 2 during the blitz and getting the crap bombed out of you, then you might may be less reluctant to wage war if the well being of your own citizens and country was at stake.

You could say that some of you Europeans are truly ignorant and are living on a different planet.

You do realize had Neville Chamberland not rolled right over and given Germany a free pass WWII might never have been fought, and England spared much if not all of that destruction, right? America was extremely isolationist until Pearl Harbor, and Churchill was practically begging us to get in and had we WWII would have likely been a lot shorter with a lot less destruction. Had we waited longer, England and perhaps even America would all be "speaking German" so to speak, because Hitler would have gotten the bomb, and forced us into capitulation.

And while I don't agree with some of our current administrations choices and policy, ultimately that's what were looking at here. Dealing with an issue now, and dealing with it later where it will be far, far worse. I am not necessarily advocating going to war, but the consequences of not doing could be far worse.

And spare me the horrible US foreign policy trip or US companies exploit the mid east because England and the rest of Europe are just as guilty. The 1948 Arab Isreali war, the Arabs were led in part my former British and former SS officers.

Most of the bogus borders drawn in the Mid East after WWI and to lesser extent WWII are the result of the British Empire, these false borders ignored many of the tradition tribal and cultural differences and have contributed to the violence.

Or how about the 1956 UK/French invasion of the Siani. The US had to veto that at the Security council because Russia and Egypt were going ape. That was all to secure British and French business interests. European companies have just as much culpability in poor dealings in the Mid East as the US.

Has the US made some (even alot) of mistakes in this mess going back 50 years...yes. But I am sick of this high and mighty, wash our hands of it, blame american ignorance, European response when they are just as guilty, if not more so.

Kindred,
America has seldom had any alllies. And also Americans have seldom been very bright. We have fought two World Wars and come home with almost no spoils.
You know what I mean....to the victors go the spoils. Only Americans can be this dumb and survive and continue on...and then have the rest of the world look down on them after bailing most of the world out a generation ago.

YOu are in the UK....Wow!!! YOu are going to have some serious problems coming up again. What was that about the blitz?? Its coming back...already has. Some of you folks are busy looking at the rest of the world to catch it. You're going to need a makeover too.

As for the draft...Bush is not talking about the draft..the Liberals here are talking about it. What planet are you living in??

And you quote Hugo Chavez.... a drama queen ...using the devil in one of the most anti religious temples in the world...??? This is what passes for intellect in the UK???

I am not in favor of sending this battleship over there. I made that clear before the histronics arrived. Dont tell me you are university trained too??

Please leave the histronics at home..

Thanks,
Orangetom

OK...... enough of bashing America.....or anyone else. Let's look at this coldly and rationally. Here's a scenario that is possible, even if unlikely:

1. Iran creates a nuclear program ostensibly for the production of uranium to power nuclear reactors, for peaceful purposes. Meanwhile, and with growing suspicion, it appears they're also refining the uranium to very high purity for the purpose of making nuclear wapons. They're threatened by the IAEA, the UN general Assembly and the Security Council with possible sanctions. The US gets very wary of Iran, pushes hard for something to be done. Iran gets very upset and protests that their program is only for peaceful purposes. Meanwhile they're rearming their armed forces at a rapid rate, and getting all blustery with the propganda about what they've got. They flex some muscle.

This goes on for some time. In the end, after continuing failures to get them to come to the table and sort it out, the US, unilaterally, or by creating enough pressure forces the Security Councils hand to enact a resolution, goes to war with Iran. The US wipes the floor with Iran, though loses quite a few of its personel. Finds out though, that Iran was developing nukes, but was at least 2 years away from having one. World breathes a sigh of relief but the US gets an earful over what happened in Iran.

US decides it's had enough of being portrayed as the "bogey man" everytime it tries to do something and decides to tell the rest of the world to sort out its own problems, and withdraws all its troops and equipment from everywhere it's found. Becomes somewhat isolationist. NATO is now on shakey ground, the Europeans can't agree on what to do or even if they should do anything. Fundamentalist regimes take over quite a few of the countries in the Middle East. Russia becomes more hawkish and sees opportunities in the chaos to push their own agenda. China decides it wants Taiwan back, now, or they'll invade. Nth Korea does what it always does but it may attack the south and Japan in the near future. Terrorist are having a field day. In Indonesia, Jamah Islamiya destabilises the regime there that badly it collapses and a fundamentalist state appears. After 3-5 years it tries to take on Australia in a regional war but gets its ass kicked so severely the country disintegrates into warring factions on the various islands.

The US, sitting back and watching, sees the rest of the world slide into chaos, and with it's usual aplomb, the UN sits on its collective backsides and argues or does nothing as usual. After 5-10 years, with the Middle East now united under fundamentalism, decides to go on a Holy War. Russia and China have been re-equiping the Middle Eastern states with new weaponry. China wins a bloody fight over Taiwan, which is now in a shambles. Israel decides it's now or never and fires off a pre-emptive strike on the fundamentalists regimes in the Middle East. Massive casualties occur after 20 nuclear weapons are unleashed, but Israel is all but destroyed in the ensuing fight. Although enough people are left and some of the military escape destruction. They decide to put up a guerilla resistance, in occupied Israel. The fundamentalist regimes launch IRBM's at Europe. The Vatican, and subsequentally Rome are destroyed. Athens is destroyed, along with Istanbul, Sofia, Budapest and Vienna with the rockets fired from Syria. Pakistan which is also now under fundamentalist control launches an attack on India. Europe, in the meantime becomes so enraged at the attack on the Vatican and Rome that they declare war on the Middle East regimes. They demand that Russia and China halt sending arms to the area, but are ignored. Russia wants to stay out of the fighting but fundamentalist rebels in Chechnya are stirring up trouble. However, they decide to retake the Baltic States to regain strategic ports on the Baltic Sea. Europe then declares war on the Russians, if rather reluctantly. WW3 starts.

In the final analysis, Europe and Russia are in a mess but can recover, however Russia needs a lot of financial help and resources to recover. Europe manages better but has paid a heavy price, with 20 million dead just from biological warfare alone. The Middle East is sterile......over 200 million people are dead. Islam is shattered, as is Christianity in Europe but not as bad off as Islam. Much of the area becomes a "no go" zone...wasteland with desert and radioactive debris. What few people survive there are reduced to living like stone age wanderers. Pakistan and India are in bad shape after their nuclear exchange..... 20 million killed initially and an estimated 350 million are expected to die from radioactivity over the next 10-20 years. China, left nearly untouched by all of this, tries to throw its weight around, but the US finally decides to act. A lightning fast attack by several boomers off the Taiwanese and southern Chinese coasts reduces most of the major Chinese cities to rubble and has taken out the majority of the Chinese ICBM launch sites. Those left are hit with a new EMF warhead being carried on some Trident missiles and Tomahawks. The Chinese armed forces are crippled beyond repair by the EMF warheads, as is the regime. After a short period of time, rebellion happens all over China. The communists are deposed but the country breaks up into separate areas much along the lines of the major provinces until the new democracy growing there reforms the country. Taiwan is liberated. Nth Korea is reunited with the south after a battle, but is in dire straits.

The US, now re-engaged with the world seizes its opportunity to help rebuild the place, but under its own terms. Much of the world agrees because they can't get anywhere without the US' help. After 20-30 years, the US unites the world under a one world government, but one mostly controlled by US interests (if they're smart at it).

Let's get a 2nd scenario happening.


[edit on 25-9-2006 by GhostITM]

Wow!!! Halleluja,

Someone else gets it...Halleluja.

I was thinking that some of the mess with the mid east has to do with the forming of Jordan..as I recall it was called Trans Jordan back then. This was a maneuvering by Winston Churchill in spite of previous agreements. And Jordan itself has something to do with the Hashemite kingdoms/rulers one of which was in Iraq..before the advent of Saddam. I am surprised that someone has not attempted to reinstall a decendent of the olde Hashemite rulers in order to bring stability and a sense of authority/lineage/legitimacy to the Iraqi government. One of the most respected and stable Hashemite rulers in the mideast was the olde King Hussein of Jordan.

IT was quite a shocker for me to do some reading and figure out by the history that most of the oil arrangements go back to dealings with the British Crown and the leaders/Emirs of these Arab nations..some just after WW1 and before WW2. It is this oil that the Germans during WW2 had thier eyes on in addition to the oil in Romania and Russia..the Crimea. THese were British buisness arrangements in the mid east. America was a late comer to the oil buisness in the mid east and settled for Libya as a piece of the pie. Most mid east oil was always under British control and is today...through arrangements going way back. What we see is merely dressing over the buisness arrangements.

When I saw Maggie Thatcher making a visit to the Aspen Institute after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in the early 1990s I realized the olde British buisness arrangements were still in effect. The Aspen Institute is a British Think Tank here in America. It has a status similar to the College of William and Mary here in Virginia. George Bush senior showed up to receive his marching orders from the British PM. Bush was going to do nothing ...till he met Maggie. He went in a dove and came out a hawk. Check out the videos and stories on this ..it was a 180 degree turn around. WE bailed out the British buisness investments again here and put the Kuwati Royal family back in power.

Anyone thinking would realize that if we genuinely wanted low oil prices we should put Saddam Hussein back in power and allow ...encourage him to sell oil as a independent. Independents always bring the prices of commoditys down by increasing supply and competition. Common sense.

I too dont always agree with this administration or any others past. I too have had enough of this blame America rubbish ...until other nations are in real trouble.
Then its up to us to bail them out with our finest blood.

The Europeans are set to have some serious domestic problems with what is happening in those nations. It is being severely downplayed in the news media. The UK also. There is a very tight paper curtain on much of this news and information being reported here in America. I dont believe it is accidental but deliberate.

I am very glad to see someone else gets it. Also that someone else knows some real history too. History is such a poorly taught subject today.

Thanks,
Orangetom

"it's Deja' Vu all over again" as a famous ballplayer once said.

I hope this is not the USS Liberty scenario again, but it would make sense.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Kriss44,
I dont watch soccer or American football. I dont watch football of any kind. You made a statement about attacking America. YOu dont like the answer. You have some issues. Also Americans judge alot of things. Americans are also not intrested in taking on the values of the rest of the world. Do not assume what your values are in Belgium are for us here.
"Shocked because of a nipple." You cannot be serious here. That is the best your university mind can do.??? Thinking Americans would call that despiration. Sorry olde man but come up to speed and leave the histronics back at university. There are enough histronic students here taught by the same histronic professors on the same program you have over there. This type of histronics is also what some politicians here would use on us too...and call this excellence. We would judge them too.

Telling or implying that others should not judge is a sign of insecurity. You should know enough by your university education to understand this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

1) I don't watch soccer either, I PLAY soccer!
2) I never said anything about judging! I said PREjudging! You were saying I went to public school and propably watch Idol, Superball ... while you didn't even know who I was, where I came from or what I achieved in life, THAT IS PREJUDGING!
Judging is ok with me, judging is knowing the facts and meking a judgement. What you did was PREjudging on fantasised facts!
3) I never implyed you were judging, I SAID you were PREJUDICE! That's something else ...

I just want to spit this out here:
before the end of september there will be a new false flag terror attack wich will be the pretext for the war with Iran ... it's only a matter of time all this has been planned for years, people, wake up ... the propaganda is working over time ... mayhem all over, skies will fall, heads will bow, more minds will be enslaved ...

Originally posted by kris44

By the way don't talk to me like you know me, I don't even like "American football" so shut up about super bowl, it's stupid, you people are shocked because of a nipple! That's hilarious and very narrow-minded ... DO NOT JUDGE ME!
I play soccer!

Judging....????

I dont play football of any kind. I dont care if you do or not ...its not for me..I also dont watch either type..American or European.

I would rather go fishing.

European football has gone downhill anyways. For European football to make the news here in the manner it does ..it is obvious that European Football has the same emotional appeal as the source of your postings. THe fingerprint is the same.
It is also the same fingerprint of much of what passes for politics now days..European and American.

Also ..being broad minded is not something to brag about. To me it just means you can be jerked about by the latest fad or trend....in anything. In otherwords you can be more easily programmed...in the name of..or the religion of "broad minded."

We are getting off the battleship topic..here. Once again....refitting these battelships would be a huge waste of moneys.

THanks,
Orangetom

I got a stupid question.

Why can't we recomission one BB. But just pack the decks and below decks with mulitple missile batteries of every kind. Use the ship like a centralized giant missile boat to protect the fleet and harrass the enemy. Nothing will get near it. especially if they put a SSN near it. The ship could be used like a giant missile hub. True smaller ships could do the job just as well, but there's gotta be some way the ship could be used again. The vehicle as a weapons platform can't be totaly useless. What about using it as a moving missile base like an Aircraft Carrier is a mobile air base, but with missiles. Lots and lots of missiles. Like enough to double the fleets missile capacity.

The missiles could be longrange and the ship could function as a really armored,nearly unsinkable, command and control forward HQ for the navy. Put all the VIP's on it so they don't get blown up. Give it even more armor and some new turbines. It would be a tempting target, but could anything get near it? Expensive true..but, damn it would be awsome.

On second thought put two more SSN's underneath it, for safety.