China "Yuan"Class Submarine has been in service

In Summer of this year, Newest Yuan class submarine has entried service of PLA of China. The newest class sub. equiped AIP power plant so have a much longer sub time than other normal submarine.
Here are pix for you

Last pics a Song submarine......

Do you have any evidence that AIP has been installed on the first production Yuan? I've read that the chinese have been testing numerious techniques.....

the quality of chinese submarines has increased enormously over this last decade. I think the PLAN cracked down on quality control or the chinese ship builders have gotten more experience.

Mix of the Song and the Kilo?
Are those rubber tiles?
And where's the AIP?

double post

[edit on 21-9-2006 by Daedalus3]

The first two pictures are of the Amur class

Yes I noticed what appear to be tiles on the side of the hull begining at the sonar dome/torpedo tube section going aft.

Looks like six tubes foreward. This boat rides pretty high out of the water for a fast attack. Most boats I have seen the hulls are mostly below the water..not so here.

Second photo down you see the whole hull along side the pier. Notice the white smoke cloud on the side of the hull...this is either steam overboard ..being discharged overboard or they are running a diesel engine.

Last picture in the floating drydock...looks like a different type of boat. No turtle back or flat type fairing on the top of the hull. Notice the first three pictures ..the squared off top of the hull. Not in the picture of the one in the floating dry dock.
Intresting propellor covered up by the sign here.

By the six torpedo tubes foreward...and the scale of the men on the side of the pier..I would say the torpedo room is not very large and they dont have much torpedo handling equipment ..it would mostly be manually operated. I say this because of the manner in which the torpedo tube array is laid out. This does not lend itself to sophisticated handling equipment. YOu have more tubes to make up for not being able to reload quickly.

Seems to me that these pictures have been posted before..some time back.
The new picture or the one I havent seen before is the one in the floating dry dock.

THanks,
Orangetom

I don't want to do anything more than post pix, because we can not judge anything with navy weapon by our observe, AIP for example.
Now here is pure Yuan class I think, but it looks more like Kilo


[edit on 21-9-2006 by emile]

Hey always been interested in chinese subs. How are they stacking up against other comparable subs from other countries. Are their weapon systems really cutting edge or are they just trying to catch up. I figured asking you guys first since you seem to know alot of knowledge about these boats. The ones here look like they are borrowed from the Kilo class and concept of sub, how do you think they've improved over the previous designes, and what functions do you think these boats will play in the Chinese navy. They don't look like they would fare well if a Los Angeles class or newer were lurking nearby and they decided to pull anything, but maybe they're really quiet and have awsome torpedos. Or will they only be able to wreak havoc on unprotected merchant ships and maybe some cargo convoys.

In spite of what we tend to believe by tv programming and chest thumping ...all that patriotic fever which tends to pass for excellence today.....commerical shipping is the very life blood of many nations ...expecially the industrial nations.
They must , to sustain thier industrys, ship to themselves raw materials and then ship finished goods to foreign markets as a way of gathering capital to pay for goods and raw materials they cannot make or obtain in thier native lands.

A nation such as being described here can have all the navy or military they want but if they cannot keep their shipping lanes open they are doomed.

Great Britian itself was almost cut off by the German U boat fleet in of all things ...World War 1. Not today ...not World War 2 but World War 1..the very early days of U boats. They were withing two weeks of having totally empty shelves of certain vital commoditys and raw materials.
This scenerio was close to being repeated again in WW2 but putting the USA and British heads together they were able to overcome the threat but at a great cost...very great cost. Most of the public today has little konwlege of this history. In this area there are familys living here who lost members in the convoy routes to England during WW 2 to German Submarine wolf packs. THey have not forgotten.

Shipping lanes must be kept open...the history of Great Britian has been one of this very thing..keeping shippinig lanes open and competition out. Over and over and over.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I understand that shipping lanes must stay open, always have. I realize these boats could wreak havoc on shipping lanes. Are these boats part of a chinese stratagy which intends to copy stratagies from the german navy (which was actually really effective)during WW2. I was just interested in what they are inteding the boats to be used for and how far along are they technologically. Was interested in the propulsion systems they're running, how quite are they, how long can these boat operate autonomusly. Diving depth. Espianage abilities, underwater cable tapping. How easy are these boats to track and if a SSN were prowling around how quickly would it detect,monitor,and potentially keep these boats in their sights. Would in your opinion the chinese create dozens at a time to operate as wolf packs or will they operate as rogue subs. Would the US deploy a sub or two to trail these chinese boats to ensure safety of merchant ships and convoys or do we not view these boats as threats?

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Would in your opinion the chinese create dozens at a time to operate as wolf packs or will they operate as rogue subs. Would the US deploy a sub or two to trail these chinese boats to ensure safety of merchant ships and convoys or do we not view these boats as threats?

1. very likely that china will produce a dozen of half dozen of those in the years to come, whether to use them separately or as a big group will depend on the type of the war and the strategy the command come up with.

2. many (if not majority) merchant ship you see today are loaded with "made in china" stuff, obviously those subs are not meant to attack the merchant ships.
As for military convoys, since currently it's the peace time, the subs do not possess any threat to convoys neither. However, during war time, i suppose, subs are good for making sneak attack on convoys.

I think those subs are mainly prepared for any possible comming conflict, for example, a possible future military confrontation with japan on some eastern pacific islands and oil fields conflict, or a possible future military conflict with the US on Taiwan issue.

[edit on 9/21/2006 by warset]

Most submarines are pretty defensive weapons platform ...right up to the point where you decide to turn them loose.

They are mostly used for gathering informations, protecting convoys including Armadas..or delivering 'Special troops" for "Special Jobs."

Under certain conditions ..submarines can gather information a satellite cannot.

Once you slip the leash on a submarine...especially one with highly trained crews and weapons loadouts....every surface ship skipper will pucker their backsides...tightly...very tightly.

That is how much a capable submarine force is feared in wartime.

Notice that when most nations fleets return back home to port..the media...are around the piers where the Frigates and Aircraft Carriers are located. You dont see them much at the submarine piers.

IN the buisness of warefare or diplomacy ...you show your kings ...you dont show much about your aces. This is why you dont see many reporters around the submarine piers.

Mind you now ..Tom Clancy and a host of other authors have changed this somewhat....but dont kid yourself...They still show you what they want you to know.

This type of warship has made quantum leaps in technology and potency since WW2...even conventional diesel boats.
As electronics has made great strides so has the electronic equipment on these boats...even conventional diesel type boats.

As to Chinas intentions...long term....it depends on if they decide to go it alone..just as did the Japanese and the Germans. These nations shed the ties to their handlers..the banks who loaned them the moneys for thier start up capital..along with facilitating the technology which got them going...they reniged o their loans...and the repo man was called in. The term/word for this Repo man is called War. This is not how your history books read or will read...but it is what will happen..and has happened before WW 2.
There is more to this of course ....but this is a basic simplification.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I agree that subs are the most potent naval weapon out there. THey truly are aces in the hole alot of the times. ANd I have no doubt that subs are used as platforms to test out new and exotic technology. For their size they cost moremoney than the apparent sum of their parts. I also feel that the diving depth is very tightly controlled info. THey don't want the enemy knowing that most US subs probably can go down to the depths they put your cables at and tap them.

Whats going on with the sucessor for the NR2? There must be tremendus gain in that field of submarine operations. And what about potential classified powerplant/supply tech that people are talking about.

What of our latest passsive listing arrays. We have undoubtedly sprinkled thoes and captator mines all over the asiatic ocean regions. Would those not keep real good tabs on these chinese boats allowing them to be quickly neutalized by US/British boats?

Won't be British boats doing the "neutralising" in the Asia-Pacific area. It'll be US/Australian subs along with some help from our Japanese friends. You can ask the US Navy about how effective the Aussie subs are. We may have had our teething problems with them, and still do at times, but they'd leave those Chinese tubs wallowing in their wakes. The Chinese boats are outclassed in all respects both by US and Australian Navy submarines. They're really designed for littoral action in enclosed seas. They're not true bluewater boats such as the US and Australian ships.

You may say don't underestimate the Chinese subs and ships, but it's equally important not to overestimate their capabilities. Or their shipbuilding prowess......history (recent and otherwise) shows it to be rather average.

Seems to me that the Collins class boats use the X configuration on the rudder and stern planes set up as do also the new German AIP boats. This is supposed to be a high maneuverability set up for rudder and stern planes. I believe the US Navy tried it on a couple of boats and went back to the vertical/horizontal type configuration.

yes I know about the teething problems with the Aussie Boats and in time they will be resolved if not already so. It is so with any new project. Lots of bugs to work out ..one by one.

Any confirmation on whether the Colins Class have got AIP?
Also any idea on released figures for ranges when submerged?
Most sites quote a whopping 9000 miles but obv that is not for submerged operations and is that range with or w/o AIP?
These Yuan Class boats are also reported to have AIP.
I dont see what makes them more littoral than the Collins class SSKs, except maybe the Aus Navy has had more experience in deep water ops.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Any confirmation on whether the Colins Class have got AIP?
Also any idea on released figures for ranges when submerged?
Most sites quote a whopping 9000 miles but obv that is not for submerged operations and is that range with or w/o AIP?
These Yuan Class boats are also reported to have AIP.
I dont see what makes them more littoral than the Collins class SSKs, except maybe the Aus Navy has had more experience in deep water ops.

AIP is optional for the class (as export) but ours are fitted with AIP, plus a few other goodies. The 9000 miles is the snort/submerged range.....without AIP. They have a surface range of 11500 miles. The ranges with AIP are classified, as are their maximum dive depth and underwater speeds.....although they quote 20-25 knots for submerged speed.

Their (the Yuan's) are more littoral because they're not designed to handle bluewater conditions. They can't handle the rougher weather that the US and Australian boats can on the surface. The don't have the loiter and endurance of the other boats either. Or the range.

Are you sure that its 9000 miles submerged? and that too w/o AIP?
Also any clarification of AIP?

Yes....9000 miles without AIP. No to the type of AIP though.