Iranian made PT boat (new)

I'm not sure wether this is a PT boat or a corvette but it is the Joshan capable of having the 76mm caliber gun equipeed with it. advanced electronic systems have been added and it can fire missiles.

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Iran-made PT boat named 'Joshan' joined Iranian navy Wednesday morning in the presence of the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei.

The vessel which enjoys unique capabilities is one of the best PT boats of the world navies.

Iran, which is among the world's few countries owning the technology, started design and manufacture of PT boats and corvettes in 2003, and it succeeded in building the first one of these military vessels 18 months later.

'Joshan' enjoys the world's latest technology, specially with regard to its military, electrical and electronic systems, frame and chassis, and it has the capabilities required for launching powerful missiles, Iran's navy commander Admiral Kouchaki told FNA.

He added, "Similar to Iran's first PT boat 'Peykan', 'Joshan' also has a speed of over 45 sea knots which makes it even faster than the same generation of PT boats manufactured by other countries. The vessel is capable of using various missiles and rockets with a range beyond 100km, high maneuverability power that helps it to escape torpedoes, and enjoys the most advanced sea shell of the world called 'Fajr'."

The Admiral also stated that more Iranian made PT boats and destroyers would soon launch their operations in the Iranian navy.

english.farsnews.com...

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mehran]

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mehran]

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mehran]

mod edit: Quote Reference (review link)

[edit on 20-9-2006 by UK Wizard]

Mehran,


Do you have any idea what percentage of Iran's GDP is being spent on the military? And will the Oil Bourse still be openend at the end of this month?

Originally posted by Mdv2
Mehran,


Do you have any idea what percentage of Iran's GDP is being spent on the military? And will the Oil Bourse still be openend at the end of this month?

roughly around 7.7-8% and our defence budget is $8billion. The oil bourse will surely not happen this month or this year even though alot of us Iranians were expecting it to happen soon, unfortunatley for some reason they delayed it.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mehran]

Too bad they have delayed it again, yet from an objective point of view, it gives the US more time for intelligence gathering.

You might want to read my thread:
Does the US cooperate with Terrorists in Iran?

I'd be interested to know what exactly is being told through the Iranian media on US forces and/or cooperation with terrorists, and do you know whether there's a significant increase in GDP spending on the military the last few years?

On topic: do you have any idea whether Iran produces stealth frigates?

This is a German example:

The Braunschweig class:






Edit: forgot to include the weaponry:
1x 76mm cannon

2x 27mm cannon

2x RAM (Rolling airframe missile)

2x Decoy launcher TKWA / MASS

unknown amount of mines

heavy ship to ship missile RBS 15MK3



[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
Too bad they have delayed it again, yet from an objective point of view, it gives the US more time for intelligence gathering.

You might be interested in reading my thread:
Does the US cooperate with Terrorists in Iran? I'd be interested to know what exactly is being told through the Iranian media on US forces and/or cooperation with terrorists.

I think were making the right decisions though. with the US pinned down in the middle east and now that the US navy is increasing the demands of their warships in the persian gulf would be a devastating effect on us to push things too fast.

On topic, do you have any idea whether Iran produces stealth frigates?

This is a German example:

The Braunschweig class:

I hope we do someday but our intention is to close the straight of hormuz and we have enough missiles let alone warships to do that, sep.22 will be a military parade for us and you can expect new toys joining the army including destroyers.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Mehran]

Have you ever actually been in a modern shipyard....the real deal..not just pictures posted in the newspaper or some official "Government " press release.

I say this because I do work in a shipyard and can well contrast government press releases about ships or military ships with what I actually know from working in a shipyard.

Suggest you do some more homework before you post some of this stuff...also suggest your handlers do the same.

THanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Have you ever actually been in a modern shipyard....the real deal..not just pictures posted in the newspaper or some official "Government " press release.

I say this because I do work in a shipyard and can well contrast government press releases about ships or military ships with what I actually know from working in a shipyard.

Suggest you do some more homework before you post some of this stuff...also suggest your handlers do the same.

THanks,
Orangetom

You didn't get to your point... What makes your experiences so special? Like what have you seen and done specifically and learned about the construction of the vessels that's different than what Mehran has learned from press releases?

I'm just asking because you put him down but, you didn't build on any point, you just said that you worked in a shipyard and ended there. I'm just trying to figure out what your contribution is.

Anyways, I might be wrong, but that looks like a corvette to me, too big to be a PT boat. The ship design however reminds me alot of WWII japanese destroyers.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Suggest you do some more homework before you post some of this stuff...also suggest your handlers do the same.

As suggested before, mr know all, you want to look experienced, but doesn't bother most of us. What's the point you are trying to make?

All you guys are barking up the wrong tree here with Orangetom, I wouldn't question his credentials or knowledge about ship building but what do I know...

As for this ship, well it doesn't look too impressive to me but then again I don't know what it's purpose is so I wont be quick to judge.

Well Westpoint, I don't doubt that he works in a shipyard, and if he does that's fantastic, I'll turn to him about the procedures of ship construction, I was trying to grasp what his post had to do with the subject at hand.

Shattered OUT...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Orangetom was just trying to keep Mehran and other Iranian propagandists in check. They like to post up all kinds of stuff that they only know as much as their told. Oranges point was that what really goes on in a shipyard, and the real ship vs what the propaganda machine spits out can be very different.

So youthink Iran can close the straight of Hormuz with some missiles and a few PT boats? Good luck! every oil consuming nation in the world would have their navy in your face so fast you wouldnt know what to do.

Who is the skydiver in the yellow wetsuit in the first pic? Irananian naval commando?

Originally posted by Mehran
I'm not sure wether this is a PT boat or a corvette but it is the Joshan capable of having the 76mm caliber gun equipeed with it. advanced electronic systems have been added and it can fire missiles.

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Iran-made PT boat named 'Joshan' joined Iranian navy Wednesday morning in the presence of the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei.

The vessel which enjoys unique capabilities is one of the best PT boats of the world navies.

Iran, which is among the world's few countries owning the technology, started design and manufacture of PT boats and corvettes in 2003, and it succeeded in building the first one of these military vessels 18 months later.

'Joshan' enjoys the world's latest technology, specially with regard to its military, electrical and electronic systems, frame and chassis, and it has the capabilities required for launching powerful missiles, Iran's navy commander Admiral Kouchaki told FNA.

He added, "Similar to Iran's first PT boat 'Peykan', 'Joshan' also has a speed of over 45 sea knots which makes it even faster than the same generation of PT boats manufactured by other countries. The vessel is capable of using various missiles and rockets with a range beyond 100km, high maneuverability power that helps it to escape torpedoes, and enjoys the most advanced sea shell of the world called 'Fajr'."

The Admiral also stated that more Iranian made PT boats and destroyers would soon launch their operations in the Iranian navy.

english.farsnews.com...

This vessel has extremely limited military potential - it is far from being "the best in the world" as the article claims.

It does has 2 x C-802 missiles aft, but has no meaningful air defences, a naff main gun (looks smaller than 76mm and almost certainly is neither radar controlled nor crewless), very few sensors/Radar/datalink etc.

Off the top of my head, I'd say the equivilent patrol boats being fielded by Croatia, Turkey, Mexico, Italy and loads of other countries far out do this aged design.

Having said that, it increases the IN's C-802 launch platform count, and is definately not the new "sina" or "Mawaj" FACs/Corvettes.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by planeman]

Originally posted by Mdv2

On topic: do you have any idea whether Iran produces stealth frigates?

Iran produces stealth torpedo boats and has no "Frigates" - although Iranian sources often call fast attack boats/corvettes "destroyers" etc. The current in service Corvettes are not stealth and Google Earth imagery suggests that the new "Mowaj" corvette isn't stealth either.

But stealth, torpeado boats = yes, 99.99% certain. Has at least 6.

*chuckles*

I'm the daugher of a first class welder....of ships. So I get to hear stories, of diffrences in comparable classes, even.

There is a huge reason why Americans only want American commerical ships in American water (specifically interior waterways). Our requirements are much more stringent.

Take the Dutch (former owner of my father's workplace), and much of Europe, for what they do with their ships. They cut all the metal to the exact ship measurements. In the USA, we cut with lagniappe (a little extra). We do this to allow for warping of metal at extreme temperature we get in welding. If wee need to shave off a bit, then good, but we won't be caught with a warp that mkes the metal too short to fit the joint.

When the metal is too short, you rely too much on the weld, which is not often as sound as a solid sheet of prefab steel. hell, I'll go outright and say it, the weld's not as trong as the solid slab of steel.

Much of our exrays of welds are of a rediculously higher standard, seriously.

As our comparable boats are much more sound, due to this main manufactuing detail, they'd stand up better in direct battle with equal class ships made from countries with such an inferior boat standard.

That doesn't mean that all American ships are sound. It's well known that one of the offshore drillers, instead of buying new boats are patching old boats (that should have been retired years ago), getting them cut in half down the middle and welding more length to them. We're going to hear of a lot of casualties from them, in the next ten years...and it is THE talk from most welders in welding conversations I get to hear about more than I want. The older ones thinks that everyone who sets a foot on those boats in an attempt to go out to sea are insane. Yet, people work for them, and their gamble is working, for now.

I can't vouch for what type of fitting proceedure Iran uses, but it's likely to only be up to European standards, if that. Not like we're likely to get any info on what the standards are for Iranian welding. Hun, if you can find that, it would be wonderful.

And please, please don't get me to talk about the ranting my father does over Chinese welds on moterbikes.

REad the article carefully. It gives the impression that this is a new design ...PT boat or Corvette.

This is quite contrary to what is in the picture posted.

Observe closely the larger picture of the ship. It has wrinkled skin on it..indicating olde age and thin skin. The bow of the boat while appearing knife like ....is in contrast to the stern...rounded. Modern designs are very very knifelike at the bow and squared off at the stern...not rounded.
This ship is a variation of the olde T2 tankers or cargo ships of WW2 fame.
Take a look at the bridge of this boat..does it look like a sophisticated control room of any type. A combat ship of any type other than a submarine is going to have good viewing windows. Good visibility ..is this what you see in this picture? Look at the mast of this vessel..do you see sophisticated radar or receiving antennas on board or is it carrying the standard Japanese type surface search radar? Other than the surface search radar so you see any type of directional antennas on this vessel or are they all omni antennas??

The engine room is directly under the smoke stack ...what you see on this side of the hull with the three short white lines vertical on the side at the water line is the discharge off of the internal cooling systems ..for either the engine or other support systems. Most likely this vessel takes a suction on the pumps of the cooling systems on the starboard side and discharges overboard on this side..the port. Going aft ..on the hull where the port holes are ..most of them are in a straight line...until you get about two thirds of the way aft on the hull. Notice the indentation at the water line on the hull. This is where tug boats have been nudging this vessel around..in the harbor..the hull is sightly damaged or indented here. This is not a new vessel. This boat design is at least twenty years olde if not older. It is not a PT boat. World War two Japanese destroyers were better designed than this vessel A predator drone with a Hellfire missle can take out this boat.

PLaneman is pretty darn close on his assessment of this vessel.

Gentlemen ..I dont consider my expeiences to be special. I merely post that I know a few things about ships and how they are constructed..and construction having a bit to do with function. WHen you know a few things about construction you know a bit about what is and isnt functional...especially in todays Navys.
This boat has been retro fittted for this role...from another function some time in the past.

While some of you are voicing your outrage on my postings ...or what you perceive as my posting technique....has it ever occured to any of you that for the Iranian Government to send sailors out to combat in a ship like this ..that it is murder??

Knowing what I know ..about this vessel ..would you feel better about your outrage at my postings if I wrote out some OOHs and AHHs and congratulations about this condition and this vessel??

I can recall from years back when the drums were beating between Iran and the US Navy years ago. ..the Iranians were planting mines and operating off of oil wells in the Persian Gulf. The Iranians sent one of these Corvettes out to do battle with the US Navy and one of our cruisers hit it from some 40 miles out with a Harpoon missle. These guys had like...no chance....none. What saddened me is the realization that the Skipper of a vessel like this cannot be totally dumb or ignorant...not so with the crew. Most likely they knew nothing of our capabilities ..the skipper did. And he went anyway..knowing that they were all quickly subject to a horrible fate. This to me was murder..on the part of their government.

When you see people posting this stuff ..and are aware of what it really is..and knowing certain things about history...what do you think I am going to believe.
I am not just talking about Mehran..but even some people here stateside.
Sending people out in a boat like this ,to me, is murder. About as stupid as sending the USS Cole into Aden harbor. That too was murder.
I dont expect most Americans to understand this ..to much flag waving, NASCAR, and American Idol blocking their thinking.

Fine buisness with Mehran being patriotic and full of zeal...
THere are those of us out here who know the difference...both in the shipbuiliding industry and also those who have served in the military. THere are those of us who know enough of the US Militarys history of sending our finest blood to fight with substandard equipment and leadership. The cost was horrendous.
What do you think this tells me about Irans leadership and its finest blood??

If some of you understand the depth or the width and breadth of what I am saying perhapsed it will change your understanding of conditions which you are seeing here.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by warpboost
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Orangetom was just trying to keep Mehran and other Iranian propagandists in check. They like to post up all kinds of stuff that they only know as much as their told. Oranges point was that what really goes on in a shipyard, and the real ship vs what the propaganda machine spits out can be very different.

THank you Gentlemen for your vote of confidence. You got it pretty much on the head of the nail. Only as much as they are told. I see that buisness played here sometimes on the American Public too. Sad state of affairs.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Wow!!! Great post you made there. Correct in all respects.

We.. here at this shipyard..built three double hull tannkers for the Greeks. They turned down all three ships. The welds too thick...for specifications. The paint to thick for specifications. There is actually a magnetic calibrated gauge which can measure paint thickness to the steel hull.

In Europe they have leaner shipbuilding standards...not as stringent. Real micro management. They dont build much extra ruggedness into them. I was a bit shocked to see how some rib structures are welded on commercial ships in foreign shipyards. Quite a eye opener. Not a heavy duty weld at all.

Also correct about the olde ships being cut down and sections added to them and sections patched up. I have seen this done too. A ship cut off at the engine room section..floated in to a drydock and a new cargo/tank section built from scratch and welded to a olde engine room. I thought it was strange but that was how they saved money and avoided haveing to build a double hulled tanker to modern day double hull specifications.

Ive also seen X ray welds in both hull construction and critical piping systems. This is called here ..non destructive testing...or NDT. I have also seen MT or magnetic testing of welds. There is also another type of testing on welds called Dye checking using a chemical dye penetrant.
It takes some real skill for a talented welder to pass the criteria for this type of welding particularly in some of the very tight spaces they are called upon to work. THis can seperate the average welder from the talented welders..like ...right now.!! One learns very quickly who can cut it here..who can go the distance...and who cannot.
It has been my privilege as a machinist to be supported on the night shift with some very talented welders. You get to know many of them by name...and often make personal/professional requests for them on particularly difficult jobs.

Great post jlc163,
Thanks,
Orangetom

The boat pictured looks like a old tug fitted with some heavy machine guns and Anti-ship missile lanuchers

I have a suspision the pictures have been mixed up, because this fits the discription better. Its called the Kaman (from memory)

Originally posted by chinawhite
The boat pictured looks like a old tug fitted with some heavy machine guns and Anti-ship missile lanuchers

I have a suspision the pictures have been mixed up, because this fits the discription better. Its called the Kaman (from memory)

We can rule out the Kaman simply because it is actually the Iranian name for their French supplied Combattante FACs which are quite old. Note that they have been refitted with C-802 missiles but retain the OTO-M 76mm gun - something which no new Iranian vessel would likely be fitted with.

The new "Sina" class "destroyers" are thought to be based on the Combattante but this is not confirmed. At any rate only about 6 out of the 10 on-paper-strength of the Combattantes are operational.

The boat in the forground of that picture is probably a North Korean supplied submersible boat which as you can see is fitted with lightweight torpedoes. Someone posted it a year or so ago and I didn't buy that it was submersible but I have changed my mind due to more info.

100km missiles are all of worthless when they are guided by 30-50km radars facing a 300km air defense. A helicopter doesn't move fast enough to target aggressively and the signature penalty it adds to a hull with the helo pad is not worth the acceptance of fewer heavy AAW systems that the hangar also mandates.

Futhermore, while I have a hard time believing a rocketpowered AShM is capable of 100km flight (the Exocet on which the C-802 is based is only a 40km weapon) without a HUGE loft, even an octet of subsonic missiles is not enough to make a significant difference in penetrating or killing a modern capital group.

The 'promenade deck' is clearly worthless for the INCREDIBLE retroflector voids that the window cutouts imply as well as the wasted deckhouse volume that is lost.

I am one of those who believe that in fact modern naval vessels neither need _nor want_ ANY exposed navigation areas, most particularly those with windows or railings to lookout areas. Fixed cameras and raisable periscopes are superior for signature reasons and NO ONE should be out on the deck. Armor and Bury the CIC/Nav missions as two redundant compartment functions DEEP inside the hull. And navigate by clusters of armored aperture housings akin to those we use to evaluate carrier landings. Remove ALL glass from the superstructure.

Particularly with only two really extended range missile systems and probably total reliance on UAVs for targeting, if the seas are really that flat calm most of the time, I would skip even a SWATH or hydrofoil hull and consider going up to an air cushion system. This takes you from 50 knots to 100+ in a heartbeat and is the ONLY way you are going to be able to challenge even rotary wing airpower, let alone carrier air given the range at which our lookdown will likely see you coming.

If you want to to play at rumrunner to the USN, at least bend the hull like a sideways vee and put your skirt around the underbody with a small planing area centerkeel for stability ala so- while venting exhaust into the inner plenum. Then pull EVERYTHING that is not absolutely required for the mission. Leaving only 5-10 crew and a bleepload of expendables on a hull with maximum signature control and speed.

You will still never survive coming into range for an SCT attack. But you might live long enough to get your missiles off. Again assuming you turn them so that they can be fired 'into the prevailing wind' of a 100 knot cruise. And put all your targeting offboard through secure LINK.

About the only active sensor you need at those speeds is an obstacle warner so that you don't flip the boat over somebodies lost dingy.

But then what do I know, go ahead Iran, bust the budget building crap vessels based on designs that were obsolescent in the 1980s /the first time/ the USN obliterated a costal farce. Off Libya.


KPl.