Al Qaeda threat over pope speech

Originally posted by grimreaper797
lol islam is making that assault, or is people in the name of it making that assault.

islam is a belief, nothing more.

When I say Islam, I mean its followers and any rational person would know that. You're just being oppositional and splitting hairs for the sake of argument. So, in the absence of cogent discussion, I will take my leave.

1 : the religious faith of Muslims including belief in Allah as the sole deity and in Muhammad as his prophet

2 a : the civilization erected upon Islamic faith
b : the group of modern nations in which Islam is the dominant religion [emphasis mine]

www.m-w.com...

[edit on 2006/9/18 by GradyPhilpott]

No, the enemy seems very clear. Turn on two tv shows. On one you have a guy in a bad hairdo yelling "praise Jesus!" On another you have a guy with a beard yelling "Alluh Ackbar!"

When the camera pans out the guy with the bad hair is holding an offering plate or healing someone's blindness for the third time that day. The guy with the beard is holding a burning effigy, suicide vest, baby dressed as a commando, or a severed head. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
When I say Islam, I mean it's followers and any rational person would know that. You're just being oppositional and splitting hairs for the sake of argument. So, in the absence of cogent discussion, I will take my leave.

1 : the religious faith of Muslims including belief in Allah as the sole deity and in Muhammad as his prophet

2 a : the civilization erected upon Islamic faith
b : the group of modern nations in which Islam is the dominant religion [emphasis mine]

www.m-w.com...

[edit on 2006/9/18 by GradyPhilpott]

you dont get it. Its not islam thats an enemy, its people. Just because they are part of islam, doesn't mean anything really. Your trying to make a connection to islam, because they are very religious people that happened to attack the US. Maybe they are just very religious people who want to kill you, because they want to kill you and not because they think its part of their religion. the leaders might twist the followers into thinking it is, but that doesn't mean it is.

Originally posted by hogtie
No, the enemy seems very clear. Turn on two tv shows. On one you have a guy in a bad hairdo yelling "praise Jesus!" On another you have a guy with a beard yelling "Alluh Ackbar!"

When the camera pans out the guy with the bad hair is holding an offering plate or healing someone's blindness for the third time that day. The guy with the beard is holding a burning effigy, suicide vest, baby dressed as a commando, or a severed head. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

which is exactly why I turned off the TV a long time ago. Now that I know your "source" I know why you think the way you do.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
So this puts him in a category of Jim Jones and a few other renegades.

My point is that you don't see Christianity acting in the manner that Islam is conducting itself today and in a worldwide fashion.

You can dig up all the anomalous Christian examples you choose, but they just won't compare with the worldwide assault on the West that has been mounted by Islam.

Everyone needs to come to terms with that, even Muslims.

Um there are over a billion muslims in the world. If it was a "world wide assault" as you stated above, I believe the damage would be far greater than it is today.

The examples I posted aren't anomalous, they are fact. They happened and are continuing to happen today. Our propaganda machine that is the media only focuses on the muslim acts as that is what sells now. There are plenty of muslims out there crying out against the actions of the extremists. Just because you dont see that here in our papers doesn't mean it doesn't exist. One of the things I hate the most about our country is how much people dont look into the issues. People get their news from "talking points" and from headlines and summarized stories without actually reading into the history of something and trying to figure out why someone is doing what they are doing. I am not supporting the actions of muslim extremists no more than I support the actions of christian ones. I am simply trying to illustrate that there is far more to things than what is spoon fed to us by our media.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
If a man was killed in the ghettos of a majority black neighborhood in new york, would it be right for the police to assume it was a black guy simply because of the fact almost all of the people in the area are black? No, mainly because probable cause doesn't give the right away to prosecution. Probable cause gives way to investigation, not accussation.

Assuming the color of somebody's skin is far different from assuming that anybody who Bin Laden recruits to carry out a suicide attack would be muslim. Here is the religious breakdown of Malaysia: 52% Muslim, 17% Buddhist, 12% Taoist, 8% Christian, 8% Hindu, 2% tribal. How exactly would Bin Laden convince anybody other than a muslim to kill themselves in order to kill others?

Why the pope just apology? It would save time, deaths and agressivity. It's not that hard to apology? For the sake of peace, do it!

And grimpreaper, great post about the will of people to distance themselves from the enemy because in the end, they know that they could be like them. It's just that they can't face it, they can't face the facts that they could be terrorists. FACE IT.

Why muslims in generals are more extremists and more religious? Because they are in majority poor, compared to the west. Dictatorships and lack of education transform people in crazy extremists with nothing to lose. They lost everything and before they die, they hope that they'll at least revenge themselves against those who supported their dictatorships and killed their families... The Great Satan, west.

Originally posted by 27jd

Assuming the color of somebody's skin is far different from assuming that anybody who Bin Laden recruits to carry out a suicide attack would be muslim. Here is the religious breakdown of Malaysia: 52% Muslim, 17% Buddhist, 12% Taoist, 8% Christian, 8% Hindu, 2% tribal. How exactly would Bin Laden convince anybody other than a muslim to kill themselves in order to kill others?

through manipulation and such. Why try to manipulate some one NOT muslim when there are over a billion muslims in the world that will fall for the same routine you have been doing for years, perfecting it and successfully fooling people?

new group of people= new routine= less effective. Why try something new when you can achive the goal with what you already have?

This is all getting silly now.
My misus was on the bus today on the way to work when a person sat infront of her with the logo islam forever on th e back of his jacket. hmmm might get christianity forever on my jacket.

And does it mean now that all christians can go out and firebomb all muslim places of worship when something bad is said against christians or they do another terrorist attack?

England is turning for the worst, more and more each day. I feel like I am the person who does not belong here anymore. My freedom of speech is gone. If I was to hold a rally calling for the killing of all muslims I would be locked up and branded a racist. But they can do it whilst living off my taxes and walk away scott free. aghhh I must stop I am putting myself in a bad temper.

P.S I am not a christian but spirtual. (but why should I feel the need to explain myself?)v

Originally posted by grimreaper797
through manipulation and such. Why try to manipulate some one NOT muslim when there are over a billion muslims in the world that will fall for the same routine you have been doing for years, perfecting it and successfully fooling people?

new group of people= new routine= less effective. Why try something new when you can achive the goal with what you already have?

I'm not quite sure what you mean, bu there's really no way for Bin Laden to manipulate anybody other than a muslim to kill themselves for him, what does he have to offer the average buddhist in the afterlife as a reward for murder? His ONLY means of manipulation is through his religion, you're not gonna find many people on earth willing to kill themselves for somebody else unless they think they will be rewarded after they die.

Anyway, the Malaysians he was planning with was Jemaah Islamiah (Islamic Group), a regional terrorist organization whose goal is to create Daulah Islamiah, an Islamic state encompassing southern Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the southern Philippines.

Originally posted by 27jd
I'm not quite sure what you mean, bu there's really no way for Bin Laden to manipulate anybody other than a muslim to kill themselves for him, what does he have to offer the average buddhist in the afterlife as a reward for murder? His ONLY means of manipulation is through his religion, you're not gonna find many people on earth willing to kill themselves for somebody else unless they think they will be rewarded after they die.

Anyway, the Malaysians he was planning with was Jemaah Islamiah (Islamic Group), a regional terrorist organization whose goal is to create Daulah Islamiah, an Islamic state encompassing southern Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the southern Philippines.

did you ever think that maybe what Im trying to say is his cause isnt to "fight the war for islam" and that hes nothing more then a manipulator, pissed off that the US dropped him like a hot potatoe after russia pulled back. That hes just a manipulator with an agenda. Same way I dont think hitler was a nazi, he was just power hungry. He manipulated everybody, found an enemy, and used it. Whether or not he fell for his own BS is unknown. You can never tell what an intelligent man is thinking or what he believes. The manipulators do that.

like I said before, "I stand corrected" I backed away from the malaysia comment a couple posts ago.

Im saying that if Osama had another way to trick people to attack the US, without losing his muslim base...he would. Why risk losing your muslim base of extremists, who are doing a good job of attacking america, just to try and trick another group.
He could lose both groups and all his power, never getting his revenge.

This is all theory, I have no idea if he really believes what he says. being muslim he may have already been in the position to further his agenda through it. He was in the position to manipulate muslims to kill themselves for his cause, why would he change that? Hes doing a fine job manipulating the group he has, which by the way is a HUGE group, why risk manipulating say christians to attack america in the name of jesus? it would show your true colors, and lose your huge group of muslim followers that are extremists.

Personally I am amazed beyond words that the Pope even made the quotation in the first place. I'm still trying to understand what it was he was trying to say and why that particular quotation in context was necessary or worthwhile. Certainly a person of his significant education should have been able to anticipate the reaction --- most especially when so many different languages are involved and there is an increased risk of misunderstanding.

I'm equally amazed at alot of what I am reading here on ATS. So many 'new crusaders' all too eager to give it back to the Muslims like-for-like. That, of course, goes entirely counter to the teachings of Christianity --- when offended turn the other cheek. To do otherwise is in no way Christian and you are no better than the radical Islamics that you seek to put in their places.

If these radical Islamics want to spew hatred and violence let them. It will only cause the same to fall on their own heads. It's a universal law and history holds ample proof. I'm not suggesting that we just let these radicals roll over us. Far from it. Where and when they actually act on their rhetoric we should respond appropriately and defensively. But it is not ours to punish them and it is in no one's best interest to fuel hatred. Vengence belongs to God. Let Him/Her do His/Her work.

Well FIRST OFF. I'll wag my lil American Flag with PRIDE. The pope did an excellent job calling out the Muslim terrorists. I think for his next trick he should call out the U.N for being a bunch of pansey's. Remember everyone... In the muslim world the saying goes, "Convert or Die infidel". Thats the islamic way...

Let me see if I can draw a rough parallel ...

I live in a rural area. My neighbors on both sides have horses. With horses go the usual extras, stable, saddle, brushes, hay, and corn. Corn draws rats, mice and other rodentia. That very same rodential eventually finds it's collective ways into the houses of my neighbors, and myself. This collective rodentia chews through cardboard and eats my cereal, my pasta, etc. This same collective rodentia also chews through wall boards, and electric wiring.

Frankly, I set traps to kill the collective rodentia. Should an innocent rodent, one that came into my house simply to get out of the rain, get caught in a trap and get killed, I can't feel too terribly bad about it. I will continue to set the traps and kill the rodentia until such a time as A) they are all dead, and no longer come into my house. Or ... B) By word of mouth, the "word" gets around and the collective rodentia goes elsewhere.

An unsatisfactory comparison? Yeah, sure. However, I think the point is that, while it may be only a small, but militant and vocal part of Muslim that is causing the issue, the non-militant and non-vocal Muslim seem to be doing little to stop the others that are giving Muslim the bad press.

While I tend to be a more "liberal" conservative, I also feel like we need to keep doing "something" until the bad mice quit coming in and availing themselves of all they can. Until then ... Well, unfortunately, innocent rodent or guilty rodent, you should be very careful about where you weather the rain storm. Those traps exist and will kill you.

I am also reminded of something that I read in the newspaper over the anniversary of 9/11 ... "Those who forget history are doomed to continue thinking that profiling is a worse problem than the continuing slaughter of innocent victims" ...

Unfortunately, Muslim can not have it both ways. If they continue to allow a portion of themselves to be militant, vocal, and provocative, unresponsive on any other than the basest of emotional levels, they then are placing themselves in the line of fire, as I see it, and whether I like it or not.

We, obviously, do not live in a perfect world. All the emotional posting about what Christians did to Jews, Indians, etc. etc. does not detract from what is currently happening. I suspect that lest there is a major change of heart, mind and policy on the part of, however large or small the actual number of militant and vocal Muslim, there exists the possibility that the politically correct options may one day go out the window and death, destruction and horror shall reign. I think that often enough, the muddled meddling that the US appears to do in world affairs is seen as a weakness, and maybe it is... However, we haven't retaliated in total force yet.

Your old men, women, children and Oxen will not be safe, anymore than mine. However, I assure you, as civilized as I like to think that I am. As cultured as I would like you to see me as, if you harm my family, or raise your hand to my country or my people, I, ultimately, will view you with no more guilt or desire to create peace than I do the collective rodentia that I trap and kill, and I will ultimately wage the same war that you or your representative militant and vocal Muslim appears to be wanting.

Im seeing as much extremism in this thread as in the world today, just a smaller group. You people are truely talking like you want to start the next crusade, sounding like religious fanatics yourselves.

Originally posted by sigung86
I am also reminded of something that I read in the newspaper over the anniversary of 9/11 ... "Those who forget history are doomed to continue thinking that profiling is a worse problem than the continuing slaughter of innocent victims" ...

profilling does the same thing, its just a matter of what group you think is worth less then another group. In this case, people seem to think muslim innocents are simply worth less. Its a good thing they are saying the same thing about you, because we know the US wouldn't stop the slaughter of innocents when it comes to the american religion....money.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

I hope you understand that blaming an entire race, religion, or ethnicity for the actions of an outspoken few is just as unfair as me blaming all whites for the klan.

Come on. Using this tired, old excuse to defend or at least dilute the actions of radical muslims whenever they start acting insanely is bogus. For what seems like the 500th time, no one said all muslims, but you and a lot of others want to keep harping this response.

Hint: you all might try condemning the actions of the radical muslims and their lackeys, the rioters in the streets if you want more credibilty.

That said, it's time we stopped worrying about every little word that might offend these people. It's like they have nothing to do but sit around and wait for some "provocation" - no matter how trivial - so they can go off. Apologies are useless to these members of the "religion of peace". They only seek to demonstrate their peaceful ways with more rioting and death.

Truth is, these rioters and people making threats have more in common with infants throwing tantrums than they do with thinking, rational adults.


[edit on 9/18/2006 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Im seeing as much extremism in this thread as in the world today, just a smaller group. You people are truely talking like you want to start the next crusade, sounding like religious fanatics yourselves.

Sorry, but this seems like a strange kind of pacifist opinion from one that fancies himself the "Grim Reaper", a "scholar - fighter", who asks if anyone wants to "play for blood"? What's with all that?

Originally posted by Mr Beezer
Great addition hogtie!!

That is a wonderful idea dark knight - all out war is what it should be.

No more bowing down and biting our tongues so we don't insult the poor little muslim murders...enough is enough!!!!!!!

- Beezer

PS I propose a FatDog ( my version of a fatah ) on all that is muslim!

[edit on 18-9-2006 by Mr Beezer]

All out war .. religion vrs. religion under the banner of the same god.

That is exactly what will happen if any violence comes to the pope, if the terrorist networks around the world think the pope should die for a QUOTE then Catholics world wide have the responsibility to fight for the Holy See. Terror, death, threats, ignorant Islamic facist rioting in the streets.. it can only go so far before one to many buttons have been pushed and the militiants if not the nations do not rise to fight back against these disgusting disgraces for humans.

Tell me at what point does political correctness end and we all come back to the real world and recognize that sometimes you simply must remove the threat and what causes the unbalances of sanity in the world.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Tell me at what point does political correctness end and we all come back to the real world and recognize that sometimes you simply must remove the threat and what causes the unbalances of sanity in the world.

Uh, did you just call for "the final solution?"