New propulsion system?

Now I am not saying aliens use this form of propulsion, but its very interesting to say the least. Also I wish I knew what programme this was from as the narrator talks of the Nazis anti-gravity machine in some mine hes investigated.

Any ideas?

www.youtube.com...



McP

Sorry, Mcphisto, but I'm calling BS on this.

Check out the YouTube feed from 2:34 to the end. There is very obviously a tripod-like object to the right of the "lifter" which could be supporting the craft. Also, in the beginning of the video, what appears to be an ordinary extension cord is plugged into another cord; it is strongly implied in the video that this is powering the "lifter" - yet, later in the video (from ~0:31 forward), a trailing power cord is not visible, despite the entire "lifter" apparatus being in frame. Or are we expected to believe that this is a "wireless lifter"?

Also, Tim Ventura (or whoever he is; he's very informatively credited as an "Inventor") talks about a "high voltage electical field" (at approximately 1:04 into the video) that somehow runs through the ordinary extension cord - or in some wireless fashion - to interact with the "Corona Wire" - which appears to be approximately 18-20 gauge - and powers the lifter.

I'm no electrician - I was raised with a very healthy respect of (read: fear for) electricity, but this defies all common sense. I know how circuts work, and I know that the amount of electricty which can be transported by a given piece of wire is directly related to the diameter of that wire - that's why the electrical wires running on the poles along the highway are so thick. Either this "lifter" requires a high voltage electrical field, or it doesn't. If it is powered by electricty from a cord, where's the cord - and if it is powered wirelessly, why are "Tim Ventura" and the narrator able to stand so close to the "lifter" and experience no ill effects?

And, to answer your question Mcphisto, the "Nazi anti-gravity machine" the narrator talks about is probably the so-called Nazi Bell, which some people believe - among them our friends at American Antigravity think had to do with antigravity experiments. This thread from November of last year talks about the Bell, and a quick Google search will turn up more irrational and poorly thought out websites than you can shake a stick at.

Can,t access youtube but i can personally guarantee lifters work..

no electromagnetic repulsion etc as my experiment was carried out on a tiled ceramic floor..

I don,t pretend to begin to understand it.. but hey!! if it works?? go for it

PhloydPhan.......I think what was meant by the "high voltage EF" was just ordinary 240v running through the cord to the device.

Geez, that device, going by what he made it from, wouldn't take "high voltages". 1000v would probably fry it. But even if it did take those voltages, if you put 10000 or 20000v through it, the device would most likely shoot off at a rapid rate over the neighbour's yards and into the park!!!

I've seen these lifters in action before this..... and several uni's have made these just for fun. They work, but just what is being seen here is unknown at present. Some think it's "ion wind", others seem to think it's an antigravity effect (which it virtually is.....even a prop powered airplane defies gravity and therefore is "antigravity")

They made one at my old alma mater years back, in the physics dept'. Pretty cool actually

If you want to really have a good look at one of these devices, here is an excellent site to go and see. I recommend you go and take a good look....

jnaudin.free.fr...




[edit on 18-9-2006 by GhostITM]

I saw the tv programme that this is from and I dont think it is B.S. It showed a bit more on the programme and you could claerly see string on each corner holding the thing down so it wouldn't just fly away. It is real and they could take this to the next step and use it in things.

But they're not "anti-gravity" and they don't work in a vacuum.

Lifters in vacuum & why they DO NOT workOne has to understand that the lift mechanism is provided by the well known Coulomb's law of electrostatics acting on ions, and by the law of conservation of momentum, by which it transfers momentum to neutral air molecules.

The high electric field intensity around the fine wire ionises the air molecules, which are in turn repelled from the same wire and attracted towards the bottom, negatively charged electrode. The forces involved are given by Coulomb's Law. As each positive ion is attracted toward the collector foil, it in turn attracts the collector toward it, pulling the lifter up. At the same time, its repulsion from the top wire also pushes the lifter upward. By Newton's laws, the momentum that the lifter gains in the upward direction is equal to the net downward momentum of all the ions (conservation of momentum). This is basically what happens if we do not consider any reaction forces with neutral molecules. Now if this were all that happened, when the ions collide with the lifter at the bottom electrode, (as they all probably do), the momentums would cancel (add up to zero) and the lifter would not move. Here is where the neutral air molecules come into play. As the ions travel "downward" toward the bottom electrode, they collide with neutral air molecules, transferring some of their downward momentum to the neutral air, driving them generally downward.

Basically, it boils down to the fact that air molecules need to be present in order for the lifter to levitate. All the specs and an experiment done in a vacuum are on the site.

It's definitely not BS, and btw that documentary was interesting but I didn't like how they was trying to make us not believe in ET UFOs...

Actually, from reading what available papers there are on the Beifield-Brown Effect, the jury is probably still out on what actually happens here. The actual mechanisms for the net force on the capacitor are still unknown.

What should happen is more study be undertaken on this to see what actually happens, to develop the theory behind it to the point we know what's going on, and then to look at developing practical applications for the use of the effect. This should be done not only by amateurs and a few interested academics, but also by physics and electrical engineering faculties at universities worldwide.




[edit on 18-9-2006 by GhostITM]

Originally posted by TrappedSoul
It's definitely not BS, and btw that documentary was interesting but I didn't like how they was trying to make us not believe in ET UFOs...

They're not trying to make you disbelieve anything in the video. All that was stated was he found something similar that the Nazis were working on in the abandoned mine from WW2. You read too much into what was said.

Originally posted by GhostITM

Originally posted by TrappedSoul
It's definitely not BS, and btw that documentary was interesting but I didn't like how they was trying to make us not believe in ET UFOs...

They're not trying to make you disbelieve anything in the video. All that was stated was he found something similar that the Nazis were working on in the abandoned mine from WW2. You read too much into what was said.

I'm talking about the full documentary where this was taken from.
And I felt that he in that documentary was trying to convince us that all the UFO's we see is from the government. But, enough about that.

And sorry Mcphisto, I don't remember the name of the documentary.
I looked trough the google videos but couldn't find it there either.

[edit on 2006/9/18 by TrappedSoul]

Yeah, Lifters aren't BS, I've built one out of Balsa wood, a canibalized Monitor Power supply and some tinfoil. Total cost, around 20 bucks worth of balsa wood. It doesn't take a genius(though it does take some caution) to build one of these things.

I do agree that more research has to be done to acertain the exact mechanism at work here. We may be able to optimize it that way and possibly get some practical applications out of it.

Question. From the Stratosphere, how what is the escape velocity? or what amount of constant thrust will defeat the earths gravity?

[edit on 18-9-2006 by sardion2000]

You need to be travelling at 11.2kms/sec (7.5 miles/sec) to leave the gravitational pull of the Earth. That's about 24,500mph. To get into orbit you need to be doing 17,000mph. That's from the stratosphere as well.



[edit on 18-9-2006 by GhostITM]

Just in case anyones wondering what show the scene is from,
it's from an episode of UFO Files on the History Channel.

1. Brown filed the original patent in 1928. That’s an awfully long time for anything potentially interesting to become something interesting to anyone who became interested enough to look at it.

That's true but hardly anyone has looked at it. You can count the number of research papers done on the subject at less than 20 in all that time.

As for it's efficiency, I'll have to look that up myself to see what the experimental results were. But I'll take your word for it that it's around 1% or so, since you've read some of the results. I'll have to have a look at that site....thanks

As for "antigravity" properties. I never mentioned that. What I said was the net force across the capacitor (the Beifield-Brown Effect) was still an unknown quantity. Personally I think it's some sort of ionic propulsion, not necessarily "ionic wind" as some other studies (done mainly by the US Army and British DoD) have found that ionic wind is 3-5 orders of magnitude to small in its effect to create any lift. That's why I said more needs to be done about looking into it. Then we can say "yes, it's this" or "yes, it's that".

As for those toys....where can you get them from!!!. I can think of a few cool "applications" for them

Generate a few "UFO" reports around town


[edit on 19-9-2006 by GhostITM]

Hi Mcphisto, someone said above that the show was on TV, The presenter is Nick Cook of Janes defence, He's done a few shows now on UFOs/Anti-gravity and American black projects (Billion dollar secret was a two hour show). The show you have a clip from was all about the nazis research and experiments with saucer shaped craft and what happened to it after the end of WW2. He's also written a book called The hunt for zero point.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by Kurokage]

The programme the clip is taken from is - UFO's the secret evidence (Nick Cooke). A 2 hour documentary aired on Channel 4 last October

Access.....yeah, I've read the papers on Blazelabs site. They're oneof the few places that has done any credible research on lifters.

Yeah.....the BPP. Noble attempt but I believe they were hampered by not enough money. Although it was most likely NASA's piecemeal attempt to make out like they were doing good research into the subject. Marc Millis and the guys could've done better with another organisation taking them on, like Los Alamos or Sandia Labs. Even the Skunkworks at Lockheed would've been better.

Bum!!!!......what a pity they pulled them off the shelves. A few mods to the design and some planning and I reckon you could fool a few people into thinking they were seeing the real thing

Actually it's just given me a brainstorm...... let's see what can be done with a few lifters and some papier machee