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The Great Trinity Conspiracy
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Greetings:
The second most elaborate myth (#1 is here: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) perpetuated by the Denominations is the false doctrine that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is God. Those teaching this Roman Catholic Church dogma (* www.newadvent.org... ) are active participants in the most common act of Idolatry practiced by modern man today. Their dogma says:
“* The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.” Online Catholic Encyclopedia.
The truth is this ‘trinity’ of principals represent the three witnesses of “The Logos” (The Word) and NOT God at all! Scripture says,
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being . . . And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:1-14.
“The Word was God” in the time before time AND He will be subjected back to God when God is “all in all” (1Corinthians 15:28). You and I are living within the envelope of time and space where Jesus Christ (The Word) is the “Son of God” (John 1:34). The Word/Son, says,
“Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.” John 8:42.
Scripture never teaches that “God became flesh” and dwelt among us, but the dogma of men transforms the Word/Son into “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6). In fact, Scripture teaches that no one has ever seen God at any time!
“No one has seen God at any time; the Only Begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” John 1:18.
John the Baptist testifies to “the truth” (John 5:33) of Christ’s true ‘identity,’ saying,
"I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God." John 1:34.
The Scriptural evidence above should be testifying inside you right now that there is “no way” Jesus Christ can possibly be “God,” because “The Word” was indeed made flesh and “. . . we saw His glory, glory as of the Only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14.
God sent His Only Begotten Son into this universe for the express purpose of revealing His glory in the face of His Only Begotten Son.
“For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.” 2Corinthians 4:5+6.
The Denominations throw these phrases around like the “Deity* of Jesus” and the “Three Persons of the Godhead*,” as if the Greek term “Deity” (theotes #2320) is commonly used in your New Testament. The truth is this word is used only once in Paul’s Epistle to the Colossians, which says,
“For in Him all the fullness of Deity* dwells in bodily form . . .”. Colossians 2:9.
God’s “The Logos” turns out to be the Living “Tabernacle” “IN” whom the fullness (all of God’s Deity) dwells in bodily form. God is actually “IN” Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
“Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
namely, that God was IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” 2Corinthians 5:18-19.
In Christ Jesus,
Terrral (End Part 1)
The second most elaborate myth (#1 is here: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) perpetuated by the Denominations is the false doctrine that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is God. Those teaching this Roman Catholic Church dogma (* www.newadvent.org... ) are active participants in the most common act of Idolatry practiced by modern man today. Their dogma says:
“* The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.” Online Catholic Encyclopedia.
The truth is this ‘trinity’ of principals represent the three witnesses of “The Logos” (The Word) and NOT God at all! Scripture says,
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being . . . And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:1-14.
“The Word was God” in the time before time AND He will be subjected back to God when God is “all in all” (1Corinthians 15:28). You and I are living within the envelope of time and space where Jesus Christ (The Word) is the “Son of God” (John 1:34). The Word/Son, says,
“Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.” John 8:42.
Scripture never teaches that “God became flesh” and dwelt among us, but the dogma of men transforms the Word/Son into “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:6). In fact, Scripture teaches that no one has ever seen God at any time!
“No one has seen God at any time; the Only Begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” John 1:18.
John the Baptist testifies to “the truth” (John 5:33) of Christ’s true ‘identity,’ saying,
"I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God." John 1:34.
The Scriptural evidence above should be testifying inside you right now that there is “no way” Jesus Christ can possibly be “God,” because “The Word” was indeed made flesh and “. . . we saw His glory, glory as of the Only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14.
God sent His Only Begotten Son into this universe for the express purpose of revealing His glory in the face of His Only Begotten Son.
“For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.” 2Corinthians 4:5+6.
The Denominations throw these phrases around like the “Deity* of Jesus” and the “Three Persons of the Godhead*,” as if the Greek term “Deity” (theotes #2320) is commonly used in your New Testament. The truth is this word is used only once in Paul’s Epistle to the Colossians, which says,
“For in Him all the fullness of Deity* dwells in bodily form . . .”. Colossians 2:9.
God’s “The Logos” turns out to be the Living “Tabernacle” “IN” whom the fullness (all of God’s Deity) dwells in bodily form. God is actually “IN” Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
“Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
namely, that God was IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” 2Corinthians 5:18-19.
In Christ Jesus,
Terrral (End Part 1)
Greetings:
Scripture forbids Christ from being the “one God” OR to be counted among mere men, saying,
“For there is one God, and one Mediator* also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .”. 1Timothy 2:5.
The Greek term “mesites*” (#3316 = www.blueletterbible.org... ) places “Christ Jesus” between the “one God” AND “men,” as our “one Mediator.”
------------
1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
2) a medium of communication, arbitrator
------------
Scripture is teaching that “Christ Jesus” is indeed a ‘man,’ but not an earthy human like one might imagine. Jesus Christ on the earth (who we know this way “no longer” = 2Corinthians 5:16+17) represents the “incarnation” of the Heavenly Man Christ Jesus (F+S+HS = middle of Figure 1 and 2) “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Philippians 2:8). The three witnesses of “The Almighty” (“One God” = left of Figure 1 and top of Figure 2) appear with Him in Revelation 1:8 (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was), while the three witnesses of God’s Son (Christ Jesus) are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity Doctrine of men has the right ‘pattern,’ but the wrong principals are plugged into the equation. Our Visible Universe is represented by “The Earth” (shaded in blue) on the right side of Figure 1 and the very bottom of Figure 2 (under Heaven), as a mere one third of the “Domain of Darkness.” The “Realm of the Word” (Figure 1) is in truth an intercessory realm standing between God’s Infinite Realm and this Temporal Universe. Jesus Christ continually makes reference to “My Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 10:32+33, etc. He also claims to have come down from heaven Himself!
"For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world . . . For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” John 6:33+38.
However, what does Scripture teach about the true God?
"Now therefore, O God of Israel, let Your word, I pray, be confirmed which You have spoken to Your servant, my father David. But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!” 1Kings 8:26-27.
“Heaven” cannot contain the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but that intercessory realm ‘can’ contain the three witnesses (1John 5:7+8) of The Word (F+S+HS), as the “Son of God” standing between God AND men. The false Trinity doctrine of men teaches that Christ is God AND a mere man. We have already seen the differences between God and His Word/Son, but is He a mere man? What does Scripture say that cannot be broken?
"God is NOT A MAN, that He should lie, nor a SON OF MAN, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” Numbers 23:19.
And yet, Christ calls Himself the “Son of Man” over (Matthew 17:12) and over (Matthew 17:22) again teaching that He is the ‘incarnation’ of “Christ Jesus” the Heavenly ‘man’ (F+S+HS) made flesh. If there is any doubt at all that Jesus Christ is no mere man, then carefully examine His teaching that says,
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! . . .” Matthew 11:11.
Anyone trying to transform the ‘Son of God’ into a mere man MUST also show us how John the Baptist is greater than He. The truth is that we are to worship God (Revelation 22:9b) ‘through’ Christ the “Son of God” (Revelation 2:18) at the ‘right hand of God’ (Romans 8:34, Colossians 3:1-3) as we speak.
In Christ Jesus even now,
Terral
Scripture forbids Christ from being the “one God” OR to be counted among mere men, saying,
“For there is one God, and one Mediator* also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .”. 1Timothy 2:5.
The Greek term “mesites*” (#3316 = www.blueletterbible.org... ) places “Christ Jesus” between the “one God” AND “men,” as our “one Mediator.”
------------
1) one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
2) a medium of communication, arbitrator
------------
Scripture is teaching that “Christ Jesus” is indeed a ‘man,’ but not an earthy human like one might imagine. Jesus Christ on the earth (who we know this way “no longer” = 2Corinthians 5:16+17) represents the “incarnation” of the Heavenly Man Christ Jesus (F+S+HS = middle of Figure 1 and 2) “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Philippians 2:8). The three witnesses of “The Almighty” (“One God” = left of Figure 1 and top of Figure 2) appear with Him in Revelation 1:8 (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was), while the three witnesses of God’s Son (Christ Jesus) are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity Doctrine of men has the right ‘pattern,’ but the wrong principals are plugged into the equation. Our Visible Universe is represented by “The Earth” (shaded in blue) on the right side of Figure 1 and the very bottom of Figure 2 (under Heaven), as a mere one third of the “Domain of Darkness.” The “Realm of the Word” (Figure 1) is in truth an intercessory realm standing between God’s Infinite Realm and this Temporal Universe. Jesus Christ continually makes reference to “My Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 10:32+33, etc. He also claims to have come down from heaven Himself!
"For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world . . . For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” John 6:33+38.
However, what does Scripture teach about the true God?
"Now therefore, O God of Israel, let Your word, I pray, be confirmed which You have spoken to Your servant, my father David. But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!” 1Kings 8:26-27.
“Heaven” cannot contain the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but that intercessory realm ‘can’ contain the three witnesses (1John 5:7+8) of The Word (F+S+HS), as the “Son of God” standing between God AND men. The false Trinity doctrine of men teaches that Christ is God AND a mere man. We have already seen the differences between God and His Word/Son, but is He a mere man? What does Scripture say that cannot be broken?
"God is NOT A MAN, that He should lie, nor a SON OF MAN, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” Numbers 23:19.
And yet, Christ calls Himself the “Son of Man” over (Matthew 17:12) and over (Matthew 17:22) again teaching that He is the ‘incarnation’ of “Christ Jesus” the Heavenly ‘man’ (F+S+HS) made flesh. If there is any doubt at all that Jesus Christ is no mere man, then carefully examine His teaching that says,
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! . . .” Matthew 11:11.
Anyone trying to transform the ‘Son of God’ into a mere man MUST also show us how John the Baptist is greater than He. The truth is that we are to worship God (Revelation 22:9b) ‘through’ Christ the “Son of God” (Revelation 2:18) at the ‘right hand of God’ (Romans 8:34, Colossians 3:1-3) as we speak.
In Christ Jesus even now,
Terral
Originally posted by Terral
Greetings:
In Christ Jesus even now,
Terral
Greeting Terral
How about a little background info
Are you JW, SDA or what?
Thanks
Hi Sun Matrix:
Sun >> How about a little background info. Are you JW, SDA or what?
I am a member of “Christ’s body” (1Corinthians 12:27) “His Body” Church (Colossians 1:24) saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8+9) by the redemption that is “IN” Christ (Romans 3:24) and forgiveness through His precious blood (Ephesians 1:7); with no affiliation to any denomination at all. My specialty is comparative studies between the doctrines taught in Scripture VERSUS the dogma of men blinded by Denominationalism (mystery of iniquity = 2Thessalonians 2:7-12).
My hypothesis is that the ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Corinthians 11:15) serving their “angel of light” (2Corinthians 11:14) represent those blinded by the “god of this world” (2Corinthians 4:3+4), as the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thessalonians 2:11*) forces them to ‘believe what is false*.’ My assertion is that the right interpretation of Scripture is the one saying exactly what God is saying through His Word without creating a single contradiction. I encourage everyone to read my posts carefully in search of any seeming contradictions and to bring those things to the attention of the membership of this Board – IF you can. : 0 ).
GL,
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Sun >> How about a little background info. Are you JW, SDA or what?
I am a member of “Christ’s body” (1Corinthians 12:27) “His Body” Church (Colossians 1:24) saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8+9) by the redemption that is “IN” Christ (Romans 3:24) and forgiveness through His precious blood (Ephesians 1:7); with no affiliation to any denomination at all. My specialty is comparative studies between the doctrines taught in Scripture VERSUS the dogma of men blinded by Denominationalism (mystery of iniquity = 2Thessalonians 2:7-12).
My hypothesis is that the ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Corinthians 11:15) serving their “angel of light” (2Corinthians 11:14) represent those blinded by the “god of this world” (2Corinthians 4:3+4), as the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thessalonians 2:11*) forces them to ‘believe what is false*.’ My assertion is that the right interpretation of Scripture is the one saying exactly what God is saying through His Word without creating a single contradiction. I encourage everyone to read my posts carefully in search of any seeming contradictions and to bring those things to the attention of the membership of this Board – IF you can. : 0 ).
GL,
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Ive done years of research on this subject as well. And could add all my theories and references, but I think it would do more justice if I
just said ....
good job man. The scripture is there and says it in plain english for those who look beyond social conditioning of truth.
good job man. The scripture is there and says it in plain english for those who look beyond social conditioning of truth.
Greetings Terral, you have an interesting theory. However I must point out that the method you use to debunk theTrinity is faulty, because it is taken
out of biblical context, and in addition in order for it to be correct, one must disregard certain scripture:
"When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" But Jesus looked at them and said to them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
(Matthew 19:25-26)
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing."
(John 6:63)
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."
(John 10:27-29)
"All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
(Matthew 11:27)
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Johnn 14:6)
These are just a few examples of scripture which show the relationship of the Trinity.
I suggest that you read the Bible in its entirety before attempting to debunk it.
In any case, good post.
"When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" But Jesus looked at them and said to them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
(Matthew 19:25-26)
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing."
(John 6:63)
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."
(John 10:27-29)
"All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
(Matthew 11:27)
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Johnn 14:6)
These are just a few examples of scripture which show the relationship of the Trinity.
I suggest that you read the Bible in its entirety before attempting to debunk it.
In any case, good post.
Hi Astygia:
Please offer some kind of case by “quoting me >>” and proving something errant using Scripture (2Tim. 2:15), before taking liberties to draw your own unsupported conclusions. How about if you and I ‘debate’ the topic and allow everybody else to judge us both . . .
Your words here have no context, because you failed to quote anything from my post above. Which point from my presentation are you trying to attack? Nobody knows . . .
Quoting a mountain of Scripture apart from solid commentary is throwing effort after foolishness, because everyone reads the same verses using their own preconceived interpretations. I agree with the Roman Catholic dogma teaching ‘a’ Trinity relationship between the three witnesses of “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8), The Word (Matthew 28:19) this Creation (heavens, heaven, earth) and so on. However, my hypothesis says they have the WRONG principals plugged into the equations. What did you “quote >>” from my Opening Post and even try to prove errant using Scripture? Nothing. My charts describing the three witnesses of Scripture look something like this:
Note the three witnesses from God's Infinite Realm appear with "The Almighty" (one God) in Rev. 1:8, while those from the "Realm of the Word" (God’s Son) are given in Matthew 28:19 (F+S+HS). A more complete listing looks like this:
Note the 'spirit, blood, water' relationship existing between each singularity host of the first column and the two veils dividing them. FYI, I have read the Bible time and time and time again; reading the New Testament hundreds of times. You are looking at the result of decades of intense study on this topic of "The Mystery" (Ephesians 3:3, Col. 1:26) that Paul says is for the "mature" (1Cor. 2:6-8). Simply "quote me >>" from the Opening Post and offer your opposing views using Scripture. GL in the debate,
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
[edit on 23-9-2006 by Terral]
Astygia >> Greetings Terral, you have an interesting theory. However I must point out that the method you use to debunk the Trinity is faulty, because it is taken out of biblical context, and in addition in order for it to be correct, one must disregard certain scripture:
Please offer some kind of case by “quoting me >>” and proving something errant using Scripture (2Tim. 2:15), before taking liberties to draw your own unsupported conclusions. How about if you and I ‘debate’ the topic and allow everybody else to judge us both . . .
Astygia’s Quote >> "When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" But Jesus looked at them and said to them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:25-26)
Astygia’s Commentary >> NONE.
Your words here have no context, because you failed to quote anything from my post above. Which point from my presentation are you trying to attack? Nobody knows . . .
Astygia Quotes >> "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing." (John 6:63)
Astygia Commentary >> NONE.
Astygia Quotes >> "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."
(John 10:27-29)
Astygia Commentary >> NONE.
Astygia Quotes >> "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." (Matthew 11:27)
Astygia Commentary >> NONE.
Astygia Quotes >> “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Johnn 14:6)
Astygia Commentary >> These are just a few examples of scripture which show the relationship of the Trinity. I suggest that you read the Bible in its entirety before attempting to debunk it. In any case, good post.
Quoting a mountain of Scripture apart from solid commentary is throwing effort after foolishness, because everyone reads the same verses using their own preconceived interpretations. I agree with the Roman Catholic dogma teaching ‘a’ Trinity relationship between the three witnesses of “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8), The Word (Matthew 28:19) this Creation (heavens, heaven, earth) and so on. However, my hypothesis says they have the WRONG principals plugged into the equations. What did you “quote >>” from my Opening Post and even try to prove errant using Scripture? Nothing. My charts describing the three witnesses of Scripture look something like this:
Note the three witnesses from God's Infinite Realm appear with "The Almighty" (one God) in Rev. 1:8, while those from the "Realm of the Word" (God’s Son) are given in Matthew 28:19 (F+S+HS). A more complete listing looks like this:
Note the 'spirit, blood, water' relationship existing between each singularity host of the first column and the two veils dividing them. FYI, I have read the Bible time and time and time again; reading the New Testament hundreds of times. You are looking at the result of decades of intense study on this topic of "The Mystery" (Ephesians 3:3, Col. 1:26) that Paul says is for the "mature" (1Cor. 2:6-8). Simply "quote me >>" from the Opening Post and offer your opposing views using Scripture. GL in the debate,
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
[edit on 23-9-2006 by Terral]
Originally posted by Terral
My specialty is comparative studies between the doctrines taught in Scripture VERSUS the dogma of men blinded by Denominationalism (mystery of iniquity = 2Thessalonians 2:7-12).
Hi Terral
My speciality is seeing Wolves in sheeps clothes.
I see you clear............your paws are showing.
Sun Matrix:
No sir. You will not hijack this thread to Sheep’sVille with more whining and stone chucking. You have every opportunity to “quote me >>” and present your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. You asked for background (posted on 17-9-2006 at 08:54 AM) info in order to gather fodder for your personal attacks rather than address the ‘false doctrine’ hypothesis of my twin Opening Posts atop this thread. For the benefit of our readers, Mr. Sun Matrix here represents the Roman Catholic Denomination who invented the “F+S+HS = God” false doctrine I am working diligently to expose! My presentation teaches ‘the truth’ that the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) represent the three witnesses (1Jn 5:7+8) of “The Logos” (The Word) and NOT “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:8) at all.
My (F+S+HS = The Word) thesis can be demonstrated from a variety of teachings directly from Scripture. Christ makes references to “My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32+33, etc.) throughout the Four Gospels. Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ descended from heaven Himself, saying,
Can there be any doubt whatsoever that the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is indeed in heaven AND that Christ Himself descended from heaven? Where did Christ go after the ascension?
Look the diagram over carefully and prepare yourself for the truth of Scripture which says,
The ‘one God’ (1Tim. 2:5) of Figure 1 is INFINITE and cannot be contained by Heaven of Figure 3, OR the Highest Heaven of Figure 2. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three witnesses of “Christ Jesus” (Figure 2), as the “three are into the one” (1John 5:8) Heavenly “man” (1Tim. 2:5) between God (Fig. 1) and men (Fig. 3). Jesus Christ of the Four Gospels on this earth is the ‘incarnation’ of this almost infinite (IMAGE of Invisible God = Col. 1:15) Heavenly “Man” (Fig. 2) represented by the Father (spirit = golden), Son (blood = red) and Holy Spirit (water = blue) in Figure 2. THAT is what makes Jesus Christ the “Son OF MAN” (microcosm of the larger Man of Fig. 2) in the first place!
RC trinity dogma replaces the “one God” (Fig. 1) that heaven cannot contain with the three witnesses of “The Logos” in Figure 2, which is just one form of IDOLATRY practiced by men today. Follow the “Second Veil” down to “God’s Throne” and note the veil is pushed into “Christ Jesus,” which places God’s Throne IN His Son in the precise location where “You Baptized Into Christ” (Fig. 2). THAT explains how God was IN Christ (2Cor. 5:19) when He incarnated into this universe as the “Lamb” of Figure 3. And THAT is how God was already IN Christ, when He incarnated onto this earth as the “Son of God” (Luke 1:35) AND the “Lamb of God” in heaven above.
Either write on the topic or please go away.
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Sun >> Hi Terral My speciality is seeing Wolves in sheeps clothes. I see you clear............your paws are showing.
No sir. You will not hijack this thread to Sheep’sVille with more whining and stone chucking. You have every opportunity to “quote me >>” and present your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. You asked for background (posted on 17-9-2006 at 08:54 AM) info in order to gather fodder for your personal attacks rather than address the ‘false doctrine’ hypothesis of my twin Opening Posts atop this thread. For the benefit of our readers, Mr. Sun Matrix here represents the Roman Catholic Denomination who invented the “F+S+HS = God” false doctrine I am working diligently to expose! My presentation teaches ‘the truth’ that the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) represent the three witnesses (1Jn 5:7+8) of “The Logos” (The Word) and NOT “His God and Father” (Revelation 1:8) at all.
My (F+S+HS = The Word) thesis can be demonstrated from a variety of teachings directly from Scripture. Christ makes references to “My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32+33, etc.) throughout the Four Gospels. Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ descended from heaven Himself, saying,
"He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.” John 3:31.
“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." John 6:33.
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” John 3:38.
Can there be any doubt whatsoever that the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is indeed in heaven AND that Christ Himself descended from heaven? Where did Christ go after the ascension?
“They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." Acts 1:11.
Look the diagram over carefully and prepare yourself for the truth of Scripture which says,
"Now therefore, O God of Israel, let Your word, I pray, be confirmed which You have spoken to Your servant, my father David. "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven AND the highest heaven cannot CANNOT You, how much less this house which I have built!” 1Kings 8:26+27.
The ‘one God’ (1Tim. 2:5) of Figure 1 is INFINITE and cannot be contained by Heaven of Figure 3, OR the Highest Heaven of Figure 2. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three witnesses of “Christ Jesus” (Figure 2), as the “three are into the one” (1John 5:8) Heavenly “man” (1Tim. 2:5) between God (Fig. 1) and men (Fig. 3). Jesus Christ of the Four Gospels on this earth is the ‘incarnation’ of this almost infinite (IMAGE of Invisible God = Col. 1:15) Heavenly “Man” (Fig. 2) represented by the Father (spirit = golden), Son (blood = red) and Holy Spirit (water = blue) in Figure 2. THAT is what makes Jesus Christ the “Son OF MAN” (microcosm of the larger Man of Fig. 2) in the first place!
RC trinity dogma replaces the “one God” (Fig. 1) that heaven cannot contain with the three witnesses of “The Logos” in Figure 2, which is just one form of IDOLATRY practiced by men today. Follow the “Second Veil” down to “God’s Throne” and note the veil is pushed into “Christ Jesus,” which places God’s Throne IN His Son in the precise location where “You Baptized Into Christ” (Fig. 2). THAT explains how God was IN Christ (2Cor. 5:19) when He incarnated into this universe as the “Lamb” of Figure 3. And THAT is how God was already IN Christ, when He incarnated onto this earth as the “Son of God” (Luke 1:35) AND the “Lamb of God” in heaven above.
Either write on the topic or please go away.
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Some version of Seventh Day Adventism???
I can't wrap my head around any of it. And the little I could follow tells me that I don't want to 'get it'. Sorry.
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
[edit on 9/24/2006 by FlyersFan]
I can't wrap my head around any of it. And the little I could follow tells me that I don't want to 'get it'. Sorry.
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
[edit on 9/24/2006 by FlyersFan]
Hi Flyer:
No sir. You are not going to find my interpretations common among any of the Denominations. If you cannot ‘wrap your head around’ anything in my posts, then please “highlight” that part and ask as many questions as you like. The chances are that another ATS member has the same question.
The conspiracy aspect of this topic is really easier to understand that you might realize. What does Scripture say about “The Almighty?”
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation. 1:8
Scripture teaches the three witnesses of “The Almighty” are right here with Him in this verse (God To Come = spirit, God Who Is = blood, God Who Was = water). However, the typical Denomination uses the principals Matthew 28 to teach their trinity doctrine:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”. Matthew 28:19.
Do we see the equation of F+S+HS = God here? No, but that is exactly what the Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine teaches. They merely ‘assume’ these are the three witnesses of “The Almighty,” when in truth they are the three witnesses of “The Logos” (The Word). Scripture says,
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” John 1:1-3.
John 1:1 represents a time before time, when God and His Word are “One” beyond the veil of time and space. John 1:2 speaks of a time also before time, but when “The Logos” is “with God,” because He has been spoken into existence (golden ring only = blue yet to exist). John 1:3 represents all things in this universe called into being “through” The Logos, which includes the envelope of time and space. Our universe existed part of this triune relationship for all of the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1 where God, The Logos (Realm of God’s Word) and Creation/Adam existed as ‘singularity’ expressions. There is no such thing as the three witnesses of “The Almighty” during these perfect ages and no Father, Son and Holy Spirit (The Logos). This now broken creation possessed no heavens, heaven or earth, because they were all the same thing. However, Satan’s Rebellion caused Creation/Adam to be divided so that darkness was upon the face of the deep, which created the two expanses of ‘waters’ (Gen. 1:6+7); one spirit (heavens) and one water (earth). God caused the two to overlap and ‘heaven’ (Gen. 1:8) became the ‘only begotten’ blood witness.
However, God could not send The Logos into this broken Creation, because He continued to exist in His Singularity expression. God was forced to divide The Logos into the two witnesses of Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water), so that rejoining them His Son (blood) became the “Only Begotten.” The three witnesses above “The Earth” (Hs, H, E) represent the spirit, soul and body of “Adam/Creation,” just like the Father is the ‘spirit’ of the “Heavenly Adam” between the veils. Now you can visualize how “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), because the Father and “Only Begotten Son” make up a single sphere above the “Holy Spirit.” The keys of this exercise are that three singularity expressions of the first diagram were transformed into the triune set of witnesses seen in Figure 2 of this second diagram, where the central “Realm of the Word” witness is in fact “Christ Jesus” standing between God and men.
The Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine places “Christ Jesus” (F+S+HS) and the three witnesses of “The Logos” into the position of the “one God” of this diagram depicting “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8). Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnation’ of the Father + Son + Holy Spirit (Christ Jesus) having the ‘appearance AS A MAN’ (Phil. 2:8) on this earth. Therefore, the Catholics have the right “pattern” and “formula,” but they have plugged the wrong principals into the equation. Christ is the “IMAGE of the Invisible God” (Col. 1:15) beyond the veil of time and space. That means everyone worshipping “The Logos” through their Trinity doctrine is in truth an “IDOLATER.” Note carefully that the Heavenly “man” (1Tim. 2:5) Christ Jesus is still situated very much “in Heaven,” as the entire “Realm of the Word” is Heaven to this entire Universe (This Creation). Christ’s Father is also “In Heaven” (Matt. 10:32+33, etc.) just like Christ came from (John 6:38) and returned to (Acts 1:11) “Heaven.” What does Scripture say?
The “Jesus is God” and “Deity of Jesus” doctrines of men are all DEAD WRONG and the tools of those practicing IDOLATRY. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and making intercession for us right this moment from the ‘right hand of God’ (Rom. 8:34). The final resting place of all idolaters is in the lake of fire. Rev. 21:8. Do not be counted among them!
In Christ Jesus the Son of God,
Terral
Flyer >> Some version of Seventh Day Adventism??? I can't wrap my head around any of it. And the little I could follow tells me that I don't want to 'get it'. Sorry.
No sir. You are not going to find my interpretations common among any of the Denominations. If you cannot ‘wrap your head around’ anything in my posts, then please “highlight” that part and ask as many questions as you like. The chances are that another ATS member has the same question.
The conspiracy aspect of this topic is really easier to understand that you might realize. What does Scripture say about “The Almighty?”
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation. 1:8
Scripture teaches the three witnesses of “The Almighty” are right here with Him in this verse (God To Come = spirit, God Who Is = blood, God Who Was = water). However, the typical Denomination uses the principals Matthew 28 to teach their trinity doctrine:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”. Matthew 28:19.
Do we see the equation of F+S+HS = God here? No, but that is exactly what the Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine teaches. They merely ‘assume’ these are the three witnesses of “The Almighty,” when in truth they are the three witnesses of “The Logos” (The Word). Scripture says,
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” John 1:1-3.
John 1:1 represents a time before time, when God and His Word are “One” beyond the veil of time and space. John 1:2 speaks of a time also before time, but when “The Logos” is “with God,” because He has been spoken into existence (golden ring only = blue yet to exist). John 1:3 represents all things in this universe called into being “through” The Logos, which includes the envelope of time and space. Our universe existed part of this triune relationship for all of the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1 where God, The Logos (Realm of God’s Word) and Creation/Adam existed as ‘singularity’ expressions. There is no such thing as the three witnesses of “The Almighty” during these perfect ages and no Father, Son and Holy Spirit (The Logos). This now broken creation possessed no heavens, heaven or earth, because they were all the same thing. However, Satan’s Rebellion caused Creation/Adam to be divided so that darkness was upon the face of the deep, which created the two expanses of ‘waters’ (Gen. 1:6+7); one spirit (heavens) and one water (earth). God caused the two to overlap and ‘heaven’ (Gen. 1:8) became the ‘only begotten’ blood witness.
However, God could not send The Logos into this broken Creation, because He continued to exist in His Singularity expression. God was forced to divide The Logos into the two witnesses of Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water), so that rejoining them His Son (blood) became the “Only Begotten.” The three witnesses above “The Earth” (Hs, H, E) represent the spirit, soul and body of “Adam/Creation,” just like the Father is the ‘spirit’ of the “Heavenly Adam” between the veils. Now you can visualize how “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), because the Father and “Only Begotten Son” make up a single sphere above the “Holy Spirit.” The keys of this exercise are that three singularity expressions of the first diagram were transformed into the triune set of witnesses seen in Figure 2 of this second diagram, where the central “Realm of the Word” witness is in fact “Christ Jesus” standing between God and men.
The Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine places “Christ Jesus” (F+S+HS) and the three witnesses of “The Logos” into the position of the “one God” of this diagram depicting “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8). Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnation’ of the Father + Son + Holy Spirit (Christ Jesus) having the ‘appearance AS A MAN’ (Phil. 2:8) on this earth. Therefore, the Catholics have the right “pattern” and “formula,” but they have plugged the wrong principals into the equation. Christ is the “IMAGE of the Invisible God” (Col. 1:15) beyond the veil of time and space. That means everyone worshipping “The Logos” through their Trinity doctrine is in truth an “IDOLATER.” Note carefully that the Heavenly “man” (1Tim. 2:5) Christ Jesus is still situated very much “in Heaven,” as the entire “Realm of the Word” is Heaven to this entire Universe (This Creation). Christ’s Father is also “In Heaven” (Matt. 10:32+33, etc.) just like Christ came from (John 6:38) and returned to (Acts 1:11) “Heaven.” What does Scripture say?
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” Exodus 20:4 / Deut. 5:8.
The “Jesus is God” and “Deity of Jesus” doctrines of men are all DEAD WRONG and the tools of those practicing IDOLATRY. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and making intercession for us right this moment from the ‘right hand of God’ (Rom. 8:34). The final resting place of all idolaters is in the lake of fire. Rev. 21:8. Do not be counted among them!
In Christ Jesus the Son of God,
Terral
Hi again:
Does anyone see me waving??
When you run out of arguments, then get your debating opponent banned! Holy . . .
The amazing part is nobody will return my emails or U2U's like there is some kind of conspiracy!
Somebody please unban me. : 9 (
Thank you,
Terral
Does anyone see me waving??
When you run out of arguments, then get your debating opponent banned! Holy . . .
The amazing part is nobody will return my emails or U2U's like there is some kind of conspiracy!
Somebody please unban me. : 9 (
Thank you,
Terral
Terral, no wonder I couldn't make any sense out of any of your posts.
So you don't belong to any denomination or any church, and you figured out all these extremely elaborate (and incomprehensible) theories all on your own, merely by spending years reading the Scriptures--most of which you seem to believe is false anyway?
Seems like what you're admitting in a nutshell is this:
"I made it up!"
And incidentally: since you don't believe that Jesus is divine, how can you call yourself any kind of Christian???
So you don't belong to any denomination or any church, and you figured out all these extremely elaborate (and incomprehensible) theories all on your own, merely by spending years reading the Scriptures--most of which you seem to believe is false anyway?
Seems like what you're admitting in a nutshell is this:
"I made it up!"
And incidentally: since you don't believe that Jesus is divine, how can you call yourself any kind of Christian???
Hi Terral
Peace multiplied to you and may the Most High bless and keep you!!
Let’s see if I’ve understood you correctly…
You say:
while the three witnesses of God’s Son (Christ Jesus) are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Then say:
“Heaven” cannot contain the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but that intercessory realm ‘can’ contain the three witnesses
And by saying the ‘three witnesses’ you DO mean the three witnesses of God’s Son, as stated in the first quote above, right?
Truly, Terral – how can anything contain GOD? God contains everything. There is nothing outside of God. God the Father is pure Spirit and so therefore permeates all.
The other thing that has me puzzled is this:
No – what I AM thinking is how can you explain that what Matthew records Yehoshua as saying is not absolutely true. For he was born of a woman, was he not? It would truly seem, just from what you’ve presented (not my personal argument – but rather just your presentation) that Yehoshua is saying, himself, what you propose is not so.
Is he the Son of God or the son of man? Where does he rank according to what your point is? What is your point?
I do agree that a man is not the Invisible Living God. That’s not anything I have a case against. Although I don’t see how you can say it is okay to worship him instead of worshipping the Father…NO WHERE does God, or Christ, say ‘worship me.’ Even in Revelation, when John falls down before Him, He says ‘Worship God.’ To worship Him even then would be ‘angel worship’ which Paul warns against. A ‘Son of God’ is a bene Elohim. Which is not El Elyon, the Most High God. We are to worship the Most High God and none other (for there is NO other).
At the same time, though - we are to obey our LORD who is over us and who made us His - we are to wash feet - and feed the poor - in the name of our LORD - without empty preaching. Then we are serving in the best way - glorifying our El Elyon - that we've known - through the Son - lights up the world - so the world can see the Cause and Source of ALL.
-------------------------------------------------
You quoted Revelation 22:9, combined with other verse(s) as some sort of support that we are to worship God through the Son? My bible says:
And also a few chapters prior, same thing:
Even Paul makes it quite clear, at least to me, anyway:
Worship God ‘in spirit’ and glorify and boast about our LORD Yehoshua…not basing any of it on personages or such.
There is to be no more physical worship whatsoever! To worship God in truth and spirit is to serve our brother man and love him as we love ourselves and our family. That is a physical act, no doubt – since agape love is always an ‘action’ word and not a ‘feeling’ – a choice not a response…and to give the shivering brother our coat or feed the babes that have no milk to drink..of course those are direct physical acts of worship that glorify our Father as well as our LORD Yehoshua - not to mention increasing the harvest and spreading good news that is so rare.
We worship God through our charity and selflessness toward those God loves.
Peace be with you.
Peace multiplied to you and may the Most High bless and keep you!!
Let’s see if I’ve understood you correctly…
You say:
while the three witnesses of God’s Son (Christ Jesus) are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Then say:
“Heaven” cannot contain the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but that intercessory realm ‘can’ contain the three witnesses
And by saying the ‘three witnesses’ you DO mean the three witnesses of God’s Son, as stated in the first quote above, right?
Truly, Terral – how can anything contain GOD? God contains everything. There is nothing outside of God. God the Father is pure Spirit and so therefore permeates all.
The other thing that has me puzzled is this:
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! . . .” Matthew 11:11.
Anyone trying to transform the ‘Son of God’ into a mere man MUST also show us how John the Baptist is greater than He.
No – what I AM thinking is how can you explain that what Matthew records Yehoshua as saying is not absolutely true. For he was born of a woman, was he not? It would truly seem, just from what you’ve presented (not my personal argument – but rather just your presentation) that Yehoshua is saying, himself, what you propose is not so.
Is he the Son of God or the son of man? Where does he rank according to what your point is? What is your point?
I do agree that a man is not the Invisible Living God. That’s not anything I have a case against. Although I don’t see how you can say it is okay to worship him instead of worshipping the Father…NO WHERE does God, or Christ, say ‘worship me.’ Even in Revelation, when John falls down before Him, He says ‘Worship God.’ To worship Him even then would be ‘angel worship’ which Paul warns against. A ‘Son of God’ is a bene Elohim. Which is not El Elyon, the Most High God. We are to worship the Most High God and none other (for there is NO other).
At the same time, though - we are to obey our LORD who is over us and who made us His - we are to wash feet - and feed the poor - in the name of our LORD - without empty preaching. Then we are serving in the best way - glorifying our El Elyon - that we've known - through the Son - lights up the world - so the world can see the Cause and Source of ALL.
-------------------------------------------------
You quoted Revelation 22:9, combined with other verse(s) as some sort of support that we are to worship God through the Son? My bible says:
And I John saw these things, and heard. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. ~Revelation 22:8-9
And also a few chapters prior, same thing:
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. ~Revelation 19:10
Even Paul makes it quite clear, at least to me, anyway:
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. ~Philippians 3:3
Worship God ‘in spirit’ and glorify and boast about our LORD Yehoshua…not basing any of it on personages or such.
There is to be no more physical worship whatsoever! To worship God in truth and spirit is to serve our brother man and love him as we love ourselves and our family. That is a physical act, no doubt – since agape love is always an ‘action’ word and not a ‘feeling’ – a choice not a response…and to give the shivering brother our coat or feed the babes that have no milk to drink..of course those are direct physical acts of worship that glorify our Father as well as our LORD Yehoshua - not to mention increasing the harvest and spreading good news that is so rare.
We worship God through our charity and selflessness toward those God loves.
Peace be with you.
Originally posted by abovereproach
Terral, no wonder I couldn't make any sense out of any of your posts.
So you don't belong to any denomination or any church, and you figured out all these extremely elaborate (and incomprehensible) theories all on your own, merely by spending years reading the Scriptures--most of which you seem to believe is false anyway?
Seems like what you're admitting in a nutshell is this:
"I made it up!"
And incidentally: since you don't believe that Jesus is divine, how can you call yourself any kind of Christian???
Bingo.
Looking at your charts, Terral, are you planning on being in the rapture or do you plan to serve the god that you believe will be in charge in your made up 1000 year day of the Lord. What Lord by the way?
Originally posted by Terral
Mr. Sun Matrix here represents the Roman Catholic Denomination who invented the “F+S+HS = God” false doctrine I am working diligently to expose!
Please.................I have no use for religion................You are barking up the wrong tree......................and have No spiritaul eyes to see
Hi AboveReproach:
Are we writing on the “Great Trinity Conspiracy” and my thesis from the OP or must we endure more interrogations of Terral? If you see anything wrong in any of my statements above, just ‘quote that >>’ and present your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.
Divine? Who says the “Son of God” lacks divinity? Many things can be ‘divine’ (theios #2304), as the definition includes “whatever can in any respect be likened to God, or resemble Him in any way.” Strong’s Lexicon www.blueletterbible.org... . Since Christ is the IMAGE of the Invisible God (Col. 1:15) then OBVIOUSLY The Son of God is ‘divine.’ This topic has NOTHING whatsoever to do with anything being ‘divine.’
The Trinity Conspiracy is all about the dogma of mere men inventing doctrines that replace the “One God” with “Christ Jesus” (1Tim. 2:5) the “Son of God.” The three witnesses of God’s Son (the Logos) are the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) and the ‘three are into the one’ (1John 5:8). However, the three witnesses of “The Almighty” are “God To Come” (spirit), “God Who Is” (blood) and “God Who Was” (water) from Revelation 1:8. The Roman Catholic version of the ‘trinity’ simply plugs the wrong principals into the equation, which is the classic shell game Satan plays on the untaught and unstable (2Pet. 3:14-16).
You guys are all encouraged to ‘quote me >>’ and show everyone here the folly of my interpretations using Scripture, which your post does not even include. Do not sit there under the pretense of assuming the high moral ground missy, when you refuse to quote one word of Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. My posts include quotes of God’s Word and references to God’s Word with definitions from the Greek Dictionary. My diagrams are presented NOT from things learned by men, but from what God has given me to see by His Spirit. Unbelievers might claim every word out of your mouth is ‘made up,’ just because you read the Bible. Does this mean everything you have learned over the years is garbage to be thrown away? Of course not. However, your unbelief changes NOTHING about what God through His Spirit has also shown me. Do we disagree about something? Great! That is what we are here to debate. GL.
In Christ Jesus even now,
Terral
Above >> Terral, no wonder I couldn't make any sense out of any of your posts. So you don't belong to any denomination or any church, and you figured out all these extremely elaborate (and incomprehensible) theories all on your own, merely by spending years reading the Scriptures--most of which you seem to believe is false anyway?
Are we writing on the “Great Trinity Conspiracy” and my thesis from the OP or must we endure more interrogations of Terral? If you see anything wrong in any of my statements above, just ‘quote that >>’ and present your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.
Seems like what you're admitting in a nutshell is this: "I made it up!" And incidentally: since you don't believe that Jesus is divine, how can you call yourself any kind of Christian???
Divine? Who says the “Son of God” lacks divinity? Many things can be ‘divine’ (theios #2304), as the definition includes “whatever can in any respect be likened to God, or resemble Him in any way.” Strong’s Lexicon www.blueletterbible.org... . Since Christ is the IMAGE of the Invisible God (Col. 1:15) then OBVIOUSLY The Son of God is ‘divine.’ This topic has NOTHING whatsoever to do with anything being ‘divine.’
The Trinity Conspiracy is all about the dogma of mere men inventing doctrines that replace the “One God” with “Christ Jesus” (1Tim. 2:5) the “Son of God.” The three witnesses of God’s Son (the Logos) are the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) and the ‘three are into the one’ (1John 5:8). However, the three witnesses of “The Almighty” are “God To Come” (spirit), “God Who Is” (blood) and “God Who Was” (water) from Revelation 1:8. The Roman Catholic version of the ‘trinity’ simply plugs the wrong principals into the equation, which is the classic shell game Satan plays on the untaught and unstable (2Pet. 3:14-16).
You guys are all encouraged to ‘quote me >>’ and show everyone here the folly of my interpretations using Scripture, which your post does not even include. Do not sit there under the pretense of assuming the high moral ground missy, when you refuse to quote one word of Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. My posts include quotes of God’s Word and references to God’s Word with definitions from the Greek Dictionary. My diagrams are presented NOT from things learned by men, but from what God has given me to see by His Spirit. Unbelievers might claim every word out of your mouth is ‘made up,’ just because you read the Bible. Does this mean everything you have learned over the years is garbage to be thrown away? Of course not. However, your unbelief changes NOTHING about what God through His Spirit has also shown me. Do we disagree about something? Great! That is what we are here to debate. GL.
In Christ Jesus even now,
Terral
Hi Annie:
All of that sounds fine and dandy, but “The Almighty” still has three witnesses in Revelation 1:8, because He is actively participating in the restoration of His Only Begotten Son (Christ Jesus). I will try to explain: In the beginning there was the Word that God called into being perfect, mature and complete. There was no such thing as the Father, Son or Holy Spirit, because they were all the SAME WORD.
The red sphere between God and Creation (Genesis 1:1 = Earth) is “The Logos” (Genesis 1:1 =Heaven) depicted here as an entire Realm. This triune relationship existed between God, His Word and This Creation for all the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1. There is no such thing as heavens, heaven and earth for this Creation and no Father, Son and Holy Spirit; because they existed in their perfect singularity expressions you see in this diagram above. However, the Satanic Rebellion caused darkness to be upon the face of the deep (Gen. 1:2), which left the ‘Earth’ part (this Creation = Adam) divided into the three witnesses you see below:
However, God could not send “The Logos” into this now broken Creation (Adam), because He continued to exist in His singularity expression (The Logos). THIS is where the original sacrifice of The Logos took place, as God divided His Own Word into the Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water). The power from on High (Father) overshadowed the Holy Spirit (Helper = John 16:7), so the Holy Child would then be called the “Son of God.” Christ’s incarnation in Luke 1:35 is a microcosm of this larger sacrifice of The Logos and restoration as the three witnesses (F+S+HS). Figure 2 shows the ‘relationship’ between God (Spirit), His Son (blood) and this Creation (water), as the three witnesses from the first diagram is transformed into the nine witnesses you see in Figure 2. Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnation’ on this planet earth of the Father + Son + Holy Spirit found in “appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8). John the Baptist is the heavens, heaven and earth of this creation also in one ‘man’ sent from God (John 1:6). In other words, John the Baptist is yet another incarnation of “Adam” from Genesis 2:7, which leads us to your next point:
That was about as clear as mud . . . First of all, if you are going to write your posts in English, then the Son of God is “Jesus Christ.” Secondly, if you are going to write about the Son of God, then have the common courtesy to present the related pronouns IN CAPS. I am a ‘son of God’ (Rom. 8:14, 19, Gal. 3:26), but Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” See the difference? TY. No, Jesus Christ was NOT born of any woman. Scripture clearly teaches He was “conceived of the Holy Spirit.” Matt. 1:20. Christ’s teaching in Matthew 11:11 forbids Him from being born of any mortal woman, which would corrupt Him with the original sin of Adam. Christ ‘knew no sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), which means He inherited NO DNA from Joseph or Mary.
Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John 1:34.
That was about as clear as mud also. Please accept some constructive criticism and remove the “nots” from your work and elaborate from the positive. What I do ‘not’ see in your testimony is the distinction between “proskuneo” (#4352 = give homage = Acts 10:25) and “sobomai” (#4576 = worship Deity = Acts 18:13).
Cornelius worships Peter in Acts 10:25, because the term “proskueno” can apply to most anyone:
--------
Every reference to “sobomai” (#4576 www.blueletterbible.org... ) is made to a worshipper of God or some idol as “Deity.” We worship God (Only Deity) 'through' the "one Mediator" Christ Jesus (1Tim. 2:5) who is the "Son of God."
GL in the debate,
Terral
Annie >> [snip characterizations]Truly, Terral – how can anything contain GOD? God contains everything. There is nothing outside of God. God the Father is pure Spirit and so therefore permeates all.
All of that sounds fine and dandy, but “The Almighty” still has three witnesses in Revelation 1:8, because He is actively participating in the restoration of His Only Begotten Son (Christ Jesus). I will try to explain: In the beginning there was the Word that God called into being perfect, mature and complete. There was no such thing as the Father, Son or Holy Spirit, because they were all the SAME WORD.
The red sphere between God and Creation (Genesis 1:1 = Earth) is “The Logos” (Genesis 1:1 =Heaven) depicted here as an entire Realm. This triune relationship existed between God, His Word and This Creation for all the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1. There is no such thing as heavens, heaven and earth for this Creation and no Father, Son and Holy Spirit; because they existed in their perfect singularity expressions you see in this diagram above. However, the Satanic Rebellion caused darkness to be upon the face of the deep (Gen. 1:2), which left the ‘Earth’ part (this Creation = Adam) divided into the three witnesses you see below:
However, God could not send “The Logos” into this now broken Creation (Adam), because He continued to exist in His singularity expression (The Logos). THIS is where the original sacrifice of The Logos took place, as God divided His Own Word into the Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water). The power from on High (Father) overshadowed the Holy Spirit (Helper = John 16:7), so the Holy Child would then be called the “Son of God.” Christ’s incarnation in Luke 1:35 is a microcosm of this larger sacrifice of The Logos and restoration as the three witnesses (F+S+HS). Figure 2 shows the ‘relationship’ between God (Spirit), His Son (blood) and this Creation (water), as the three witnesses from the first diagram is transformed into the nine witnesses you see in Figure 2. Jesus Christ is the ‘incarnation’ on this planet earth of the Father + Son + Holy Spirit found in “appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8). John the Baptist is the heavens, heaven and earth of this creation also in one ‘man’ sent from God (John 1:6). In other words, John the Baptist is yet another incarnation of “Adam” from Genesis 2:7, which leads us to your next point:
Annie >> The other thing that has me puzzled is this:
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! . . .” Matthew 11:11.
Terral Original >> Anyone trying to transform the ‘Son of God’ into a mere man MUST also show us how John the Baptist is greater than He.
Annie’s Reply >> No – what I AM thinking is how can you explain that what Matthew records Yehoshua as saying is not absolutely true. For he was born of a woman, was he not? It would truly seem, just from what you’ve presented (not my personal argument – but rather just your presentation) that Yehoshua is saying, himself, what you propose is not so.
That was about as clear as mud . . . First of all, if you are going to write your posts in English, then the Son of God is “Jesus Christ.” Secondly, if you are going to write about the Son of God, then have the common courtesy to present the related pronouns IN CAPS. I am a ‘son of God’ (Rom. 8:14, 19, Gal. 3:26), but Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” See the difference? TY. No, Jesus Christ was NOT born of any woman. Scripture clearly teaches He was “conceived of the Holy Spirit.” Matt. 1:20. Christ’s teaching in Matthew 11:11 forbids Him from being born of any mortal woman, which would corrupt Him with the original sin of Adam. Christ ‘knew no sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), which means He inherited NO DNA from Joseph or Mary.
Annie >> Is he the Son of God or the son of man? Where does he rank according to what your point is? What is your point?
Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John 1:34.
I do agree that a man is not the Invisible Living God. That’s not anything I have a case against. Although I don’t see how you can say it is okay to worship him instead of worshipping the Father…NO WHERE does God, or Christ, say ‘worship me.’ Even in Revelation, when John falls down before Him, He says ‘Worship God.’ To worship Him even then would be ‘angel worship’ which Paul warns against. A ‘Son of God’ is a bene Elohim. Which is not El Elyon, the Most High God. We are to worship the Most High God and none other (for there is NO other).[snip feet washing, etc.]
That was about as clear as mud also. Please accept some constructive criticism and remove the “nots” from your work and elaborate from the positive. What I do ‘not’ see in your testimony is the distinction between “proskuneo” (#4352 = give homage = Acts 10:25) and “sobomai” (#4576 = worship Deity = Acts 18:13).
Cornelius worships Peter in Acts 10:25, because the term “proskueno” can apply to most anyone:
Proskuneo =
---------
“1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
--------
Every reference to “sobomai” (#4576 www.blueletterbible.org... ) is made to a worshipper of God or some idol as “Deity.” We worship God (Only Deity) 'through' the "one Mediator" Christ Jesus (1Tim. 2:5) who is the "Son of God."
GL in the debate,
Terral
Originally posted by Terral
I will try to explain:
Truly, Terral, there is NO NEED. I understand. I just wanted to know a couple of things about what YOU were saying.
Which, BTW, is speculation - illustrated speculations, at that!
That was about as clear as mud . . .
I know. Not because what I said, but because you contradicted yourself and I guess you still don't realize it. Forget it, I wasn't asking for my benefit, anyway.
First of all, if you are going to write your posts in English, then the Son of God is “Jesus Christ.”
I beg your pardon. What you use for language is yours. Mine is mine. There was never a man called 'Jesus' because when He lived, there were NO J's!!!
Secondly, if you are going to write about the Son of God, then have the common courtesy to present the related pronouns IN CAPS.
As well, my conversation with my family, and how I choose to refer to them is my choice, freely given me. Please keep that in mind, if you will.
No, Jesus Christ was NOT born of any woman. Scripture clearly teaches He was “conceived of the Holy Spirit.”
Of course. But where did the body that died on the cross come from? A woman. The seed of a woman. Miriam who was the daughter of Ann. You can find Yehoshua's fleshly lineage in the book of Matthew. And you can find the Son of God's spiritual lineage in the book of Luke.
Christ ‘knew no sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), which means He inherited NO DNA from Joseph or Mary.
Paul calls that 'so called science.' Or something like that. Nonsense, at any rate. You are confusing flesh with spirit because you do not know the difference.
That was about as clear as mud also. Please accept some constructive criticism and remove the “nots” from your work and elaborate from the positive.
When someone who is a qualified 'builder' comes along, I certainly always do.
The problem with the clear as mud part is that your water and your dust are all stirred up and have not yet settled and separated.
I'm sorry I didn't realize that from the start, and now that I do, I won't burden your pool with my disruptive 'hot' air...
What I do ‘not’ see in your testimony is the distinction between “proskuneo” (#4352 = give homage = Acts 10:25) and “sobomai” (#4576 = worship Deity = Acts 18:13).
Maybe you are totally Greek in your understandings, then, and not able to understand the Koine which is based in Hebrew and not Greek?
GL in the debate,
Terral
'Luck' is something that comes into play when one is casting lots, Terral. I'm not playing games of chance these days - my lot was determined long before the word 'debate' even came into existence!
God bless and keep you and may the Angel of His presence kiss you with life when the night turns back into day!
Hi Annie:
That is your opinion based upon Annie’s speculations. The members of the ATS Board and their readers are being introduced to my work gathered through three decades of dedicated prayer and intense Bible Study. Our readers should be reminded that everyone here is offering ‘their personal’ interpretations in the form of speculations on each of these “Conspiracies In Religions” Topics. What makes Annie’s view of things superior than the next member’s “speculations?” Nothing at all! My explanations include a series of carefully prepared diagrams, because of what God has given me to see by His Spirit. I heartily encourage everyone here to point out any errors in anything I present and to backup your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.
Your BIBLE is written in the same ENGLISH used by your READERS. Your misspelling of Yeshua is Freudian in revealing Annie really does not know or understand the “Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:3, 11, 23, 8:1, etc.) Paul is writing about AT ALL. Your commentary (Heh) is drafted with “Christ according to the flesh” (2Cor. 5:16) in mind who WE who are “IN Christ” “know in this way NO LONGER.” The Jesus you know is walking around incarnate on the earth someplace in your vain imagination. This entire Universe holds together “IN” Christ that Paul is writing about, saying,
The Jesus of Nazareth walking around on the earth is the ‘incarnation’ of “Christ Jesus” IN Whom “ALL THINGS hold together.” Paul is pointing to a “Christ” that contains all the galaxy strings and galaxies of this universe. Please forgive, but you have some nerve to come out here and characterize my work as mere “speculation,” then to turn right around and talk about the “Yeshua” of the flesh those of us “IN” Christ Jesus know that way NO LONGER. I am doing my best to illustrate and highlight the enormous size and magnificent glory shining in the face of “Christ Jesus,” and you are working in the opposite direction by misspelling His name! Scripture has commanded that you remain silent in the assembly (1Cor. 14:34) for many very important reasons, just one of which is that the word of God has “come to you only” (1Cor. 14:36).
Jesus Christ was “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8) and His physical body was “conceived by the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 1:20). Both Matthew (1:16, 18 ) and Luke (3:23) trace Christ’s ‘supposed’ (Luke 3:24) lineage through JOSEPH.
Mary is the relative of Elizabeth (Luke 1:36) from the ‘daughters of Aaron’ (Luke 1:5) with no Davidic connections anywhere.
Heh . . . “So-called science”? Heh . . . “Or something like that”? My God, woman, you have a lot of nerve making intimations about my ignorance in light of the facts in this case; and THEN to offer no references to Scripture? Well, that takes the proverbial cake! There is absolutely no way for God to use the DNA of Joseph OR Mary to cause Christ to incarnate into this world, because THAT would pass Adam’s original sin to the “Son OF GOD.” Christ “knew no sin” (2Cor. 5:21), because He was “conceived of the HOLY SPIRIT.” Matt. 1:20. Or did you think God’s Word says “conceived OF MARY!” Good grief . . .
Please . . . The ‘deuterocanonical books' appear in the Koine Greek Septuagint translation ( en.wikipedia.org... ) and the ‘protocanonical books’ appear in the Hebrew Bible. My point above concerning “proskuneo” and contrasting that with “sobomai” is ‘the answer’ to your “worship” arguments, even if you continue with Annie’s head buried a country mile into the sand. Your cup is so overflowing with utter nonsense that there is no space for ‘the truth’ of God’s Living Word. Please forgive if I take everything you say with a half grain of salt. But, what should we expect from one who worships Satan?
Annie’s “Lucifer Conspiracy Thread >>
www.abovetopsecret.com... OMG!
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
Annie >> Truly, Terral, there is NO NEED. I understand. I just wanted to know a couple of things about what YOU were saying. Which, BTW, is speculation - illustrated speculations, at that![snip mud, forget it nonsense]
That is your opinion based upon Annie’s speculations. The members of the ATS Board and their readers are being introduced to my work gathered through three decades of dedicated prayer and intense Bible Study. Our readers should be reminded that everyone here is offering ‘their personal’ interpretations in the form of speculations on each of these “Conspiracies In Religions” Topics. What makes Annie’s view of things superior than the next member’s “speculations?” Nothing at all! My explanations include a series of carefully prepared diagrams, because of what God has given me to see by His Spirit. I heartily encourage everyone here to point out any errors in anything I present and to backup your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.
Terral Original >> First of all, if you are going to write your posts in English, then the Son of God is “Jesus Christ.”
Annie >> I beg your pardon. What you use for language is yours. Mine is mine. There was never a man called 'Jesus' because when He lived, there were NO J's!!![snip ‘my family’ nonsense]
Your BIBLE is written in the same ENGLISH used by your READERS. Your misspelling of Yeshua is Freudian in revealing Annie really does not know or understand the “Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:3, 11, 23, 8:1, etc.) Paul is writing about AT ALL. Your commentary (Heh) is drafted with “Christ according to the flesh” (2Cor. 5:16) in mind who WE who are “IN Christ” “know in this way NO LONGER.” The Jesus you know is walking around incarnate on the earth someplace in your vain imagination. This entire Universe holds together “IN” Christ that Paul is writing about, saying,
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and IN Him ALL THINGS hold together.” Colossians 1:15-17.
The Jesus of Nazareth walking around on the earth is the ‘incarnation’ of “Christ Jesus” IN Whom “ALL THINGS hold together.” Paul is pointing to a “Christ” that contains all the galaxy strings and galaxies of this universe. Please forgive, but you have some nerve to come out here and characterize my work as mere “speculation,” then to turn right around and talk about the “Yeshua” of the flesh those of us “IN” Christ Jesus know that way NO LONGER. I am doing my best to illustrate and highlight the enormous size and magnificent glory shining in the face of “Christ Jesus,” and you are working in the opposite direction by misspelling His name! Scripture has commanded that you remain silent in the assembly (1Cor. 14:34) for many very important reasons, just one of which is that the word of God has “come to you only” (1Cor. 14:36).
Terral Original >> No, Jesus Christ was NOT born of any woman. Scripture clearly teaches He was “conceived of the Holy Spirit.”
Annie >> Of course. But where did the body that died on the cross come from? A woman. The seed of a woman. Miriam who was the daughter of Ann. You can find Yehoshua's fleshly lineage in the book of Matthew. And you can find the Son of God's spiritual lineage in the book of Luke.
Jesus Christ was “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8) and His physical body was “conceived by the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 1:20). Both Matthew (1:16, 18 ) and Luke (3:23) trace Christ’s ‘supposed’ (Luke 3:24) lineage through JOSEPH.
Matthew >> “Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 1:16+18.
Luke >> “When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli.” Luke 3:23.
Mary is the relative of Elizabeth (Luke 1:36) from the ‘daughters of Aaron’ (Luke 1:5) with no Davidic connections anywhere.
Terral Original >> Christ ‘knew no sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), which means He inherited NO DNA from Joseph or Mary.
Annie >> Paul calls that 'so called science.' Or something like that. Nonsense, at any rate. You are confusing flesh with spirit because you do not know the difference.[snip “qualified builder” nonsense]
Heh . . . “So-called science”? Heh . . . “Or something like that”? My God, woman, you have a lot of nerve making intimations about my ignorance in light of the facts in this case; and THEN to offer no references to Scripture? Well, that takes the proverbial cake! There is absolutely no way for God to use the DNA of Joseph OR Mary to cause Christ to incarnate into this world, because THAT would pass Adam’s original sin to the “Son OF GOD.” Christ “knew no sin” (2Cor. 5:21), because He was “conceived of the HOLY SPIRIT.” Matt. 1:20. Or did you think God’s Word says “conceived OF MARY!” Good grief . . .
Terral Original >> What I do ‘not’ see in your testimony is the distinction between “proskuneo” (#4352 = give homage = Acts 10:25) and “sobomai” (#4576 = worship Deity = Acts 18:13).
Annie >> Maybe you are totally Greek in your understandings, then, and not able to understand the Koine which is based in Hebrew and not Greek?
Please . . . The ‘deuterocanonical books' appear in the Koine Greek Septuagint translation ( en.wikipedia.org... ) and the ‘protocanonical books’ appear in the Hebrew Bible. My point above concerning “proskuneo” and contrasting that with “sobomai” is ‘the answer’ to your “worship” arguments, even if you continue with Annie’s head buried a country mile into the sand. Your cup is so overflowing with utter nonsense that there is no space for ‘the truth’ of God’s Living Word. Please forgive if I take everything you say with a half grain of salt. But, what should we expect from one who worships Satan?
Annie’s “Lucifer Conspiracy Thread >>
www.abovetopsecret.com... OMG!
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
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