Is the Most Illuminated Person an Illuminati?

Would he or she be? Should he or she be? Can he or she be? If the Illuminati is the most powerful secret organization in the world, I would say yes to each of the 3 questions.

Is the Illuminati the most powerful secret organization in the world?

What do you think?

I don't think they are, or would be.

Illumination, Enlightenment, takes many forms. It is, in my experience and opinion, a subjective thing.

I do not believe in the existence of a single Truth, a solitary, discrete and self-evident set of philosophical tenets that stand up to all scrutiny from all perspectives. I believe that only natural law is objective and immutable (if imperfectly understood), that the human experience is an entirely personal and subjective one, and that understanding of one does not imply understanding of the other.

Therefore, I feel that the beliefs of the Most Illuminated and the beliefs of the Illuminati are by no means intrinsically aligned; even if both parties are admirably (or perfectly) enlightened, their Illuminations are their own.

I'll concede that this philosophy of mine is rather left-hand-path, but I guess that's how it goes.


[edit on 16-9-2006 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
I don't think they are, or would be.

I believe that only natural law is objective and immutable (if imperfectly understood), that the human experience is an entirely personal and subjective one, and that understanding of one does not imply understanding of the other.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by The Parallelogram]

The Parallelogram, do you believe that God's Law is equal to natural law and, therefore, objective and immutable? Can humans ever share in God's Law, natural law, objectivity, and/or immutability? I believe we can occasionally in earthly life, but significantly more in the Afterlife. God gives us clues in earthly life to His Eternal Afterlife Wisdom and Kingdom.

If there is an extant deity as classically defined, I imagine that its law and natural law would be one and the same.

(and that it could get away with one-line posts.)

The Parallelogram, do you believe God exists? Do you believe that the laws and rules we are subject to, to be God's laws and rules? Or are they a percentage of other beings' laws and rules? Do we ever reach a stage in eternal life where we are subject only to God's laws and rules and not other beings' laws and rules?

I believe in the existence of forces greater than Humanity and beyond our comprehension, but I am not certain whether there is an intelligence underlying these forces. This question occupies a lot of my spare time.

I do not believe in the Judeochristian God or that of any other major world religion. I suppose that the goddess Eris of the Discordians personifies best my conception of metaphysical forces.

That is to say, I believe that the world is a chaotic place, wherein each of us are left to create our own meaning, unwitting subjects of faceless natural law and the whims of chance.

I do not subscribe to the party line of modern science in all areas. I believe there are areas of reality that we have not yet even glimpsed with our empirical instruments, areas as intrinsic in our being as physics and chemistry but generally beyond the ken of our imperfect organic sensory apparatus and the scientific implements we have devised.


As for whether I believe our consciousness persists in some form after death, I cannot say... only that I certainly hope so.



Sorry for being so long-winded here, GreatTech, but you ask some very thought-provoking questions.

No not possible. Because Illuminism is the religion of self, serving self and this closes off access to truths and knowledge and experiences that lead to true enlightenment.

That is why the secret societies and the general brotherhood' movements for elightenment is a sham: it can't take you where you want to go.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
No not possible. Because Illuminism is the religion of self, serving self and this closes off access to truths and knowledge and experiences that lead to true enlightenment.

That is why the secret societies and the general brotherhood' movements for elightenment is a sham: it can't take you where you want to go.

Is this your argument?: God is superior to man (personally, I cannot disagree). Humans are inferior to God (personally, I cannot disagree). Therefore, we must follow God only (I completely agree). Following groups is at best, following God indirectly, and not the best use of our time which should be directly devoted to God.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Is this your argument?: God is superior to man (personally, I cannot disagree). Humans are inferior to God (personally, I cannot disagree). Therefore, we must follow God only (I completely agree). Following groups is at best, following God indirectly, and not the best use of our time which should be directly devoted to God.

Are you speaking on God's behalf? Do you have a direct line to what He wants ?
Surely God knows what the best use of our time is, being Omniscient he knows in advance what we are going to do and we cannot do other then what we do otherwise we would make God's knowledge imperfect.

In my eyes that person wouldn't be the most illuminated but the most influencial and/or powerful.

Originally posted by Ersatz
Are you speaking on God's behalf? Do you have a direct line to what He wants ?
Surely God knows what the best use of our time is, being Omniscient he knows in advance what we are going to do and we cannot do other then what we do otherwise we would make God's knowledge imperfect.

Ersatz, excellent reply. I, too, believe in the Omniscience of God. For me, it is sufficient to disprove the concept of "free will." Does it do that for you too?

I don't think any human can speak on God's behalf as God is ALWAYS superior to man.

As far as a "direct line", I will make my long life story very short. I was raised Catholic (it is still my favorite religion) and was an honor student throughout school, including graduate school. But during these first 23 years of my life, I was gradually falling away from God (so much for there being any real connection between academic success and faith, hope, or Spirit) and for the next 6 years I was essentially agnostic/atheist. During this 6 year period, I had, one might say, one foot on the accelerator and one foot in the grave. However, at the age of 29, while laying in bed, I had an experience that completely transformed my life: GOD STARTED SPEAKING TO ME. Call it a theophany, epiphany, or revelation or whatever. God's voice is powerful but kind, authoritative but caring. For the last 11 years, I have been able to accompish things that I never would have previously thought possible in my "prior life". In these 11 years of Communion with God, I have been through many paths, and not all have been easy, but all experiences have been for the greater good. I now have the wisdom to lead a decent life, and with God's grace I hope to always be able to lead a decent life.

corsig, interesting statement. How do define illumination?

Originally posted by GreatTech

As far as a "direct line", I will make my long life story very short. I was raised Catholic (it is still my favorite religion) and was an honor student throughout school, including graduate school. But during these first 23 years of my life, I was gradually falling away from God (so much for there being any real connection between academic success and faith, hope, or Spirit) and for the next 6 years I was essentially agnostic/atheist. During this 6 year period, I had, one might say, one foot on the accelerator and one foot in the grave. However, at the age of 29, while laying in bed, I had an experience that completely transformed my life: GOD STARTED SPEAKING TO ME. Call it a theophany, epiphany, or revelation or whatever. God's voice is powerful but kind, authoritative but caring. For the last 11 years, I have been able to accompish things that I never would have previously thought possible in my "prior life". In these 11 years of Communion with God, I have been through many paths, and not all have been easy, but all experiences have been for the greater good. I now have the wisdom to lead a decent life, and with God's grace I hope to always be able to lead a decent life.

I have frequent conversations with God but my God is a little more modest than yours.
Mine is happy, infact prefers, to be called Conscience.

Ersatz, thank you for your reply. Sorry if I sounded a little immodest in my recent reply. Immodesty is a sin and does not go unpunished.

Conscience is a powerful concept of the human mind. I believe it is our ultimate scientific decision-maker, but that our Spirit is our ultimate Spiritual decision-maker. Although the Conscience is very important, it is not the pinnacle of great decision-making.

Do you believe that the most Illuminated person uses Conscience decision-making or Spiritual decision-making? Is the most Illuminated person a member of the Illuminati, close to it, or far from it?

Well, being the most illuminated person, I can say Im not a member of an organization called the illumanati. I feel that they made this organization because of low self esteem and the lack of ability to comprehend what goes on in such a high level of consciousness that I have achieved.

So I hope this answers your question.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 18-9-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
Well, being the most illuminated person, I can say Im not a member of an organization called the illumanati. I feel that they made this organization because of low self esteem and the lack of ability to comprehend what goes on in such a high level of consciousness that I have achieved.

So I hope this answers your question.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 18-9-2006 by dAlen]

In the past, maybe you were the most Illuminated person. For what percentage of time? Remember that pride goes before the fall, but I hope and pray for you, dAlen. For what extent of time can a person be the most Illuminated? God is beyond Illumination and all its glory and aspects.

Describe the high level of consciousness you have achieved and indicate why it would be above in every aspect of an organization called the Illuminati.

Originally posted by GreatTech

Do you believe that the most Illuminated person uses Conscience decision-making or Spiritual decision-making? Is the most Illuminated person a member of the Illuminati, close to it, or far from it?

If you are a true Illuminato you do not need to call yourself enlightened,
names are just titles to underpin your vanity.

There is a saying that goes like:
The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool speaks because he has to say something.

I am sure you can judge wisdom or foolishness but I think you are being vain in as far as you do not want to learn, you want to teach.
Your tactic is one employed by people who have suffered a lot and I hope you find what you are looking for.

Originally posted by GreatTech
In the past, maybe you were the most Illuminated person. For what percentage of time? Remember that pride goes before the fall, but I hope and pray for you, dAlen. For what extent of time can a person be the most Illuminated? God is beyond Illumination and all its glory and aspects.

Describe the high level of consciousness you have achieved and indicate why it would be above in every aspect of an organization called the Illuminati.

Thank you for recognizing who I am. You are right God is beyond Illumination.

Originally posted by Ersatz
If you are a true Illuminato you do not need to call yourself enlightened,
names are just titles to underpin your vanity.

There is a saying that goes like:
The wise man speaks because he has something to say, the fool speaks because he has to say something.

I am sure you can judge wisdom or foolishness but I think you are being vain in as far as you do not want to learn, you want to teach.
Your tactic is one employed by people who have suffered a lot and I hope you find what you are looking for.

I believe each member of ATS is a teacher as we "teach our views" on subjects and topics. If we did not "teach our views", posts and replies would be zero.

I basically consider myself a humble person and I am working on greater humility.

Originally posted by dAlen
Thank you for recognizing who I am. You are right God is beyond Illumination.

dAlen, I have not recognized anything about you, except for maybe a Spiritual nature that may suffer from grandeur. Who are you? Do you have a religion or your own religion? Are you saying that you are beyond Illumination? Are you saying that you are God? If so, for a human, there is no greater delusion of grandeur than to think and believe that one is the Infinitely Great God, Almighty Father.

God Bless You and All in True Spiritual Paths.

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