age old question, unanswered

christians, why do you believe the bible. honestly, it is just a book, what makes it true. If the bible is true, wouldn't harry potter prove that magic exists? it makes no sense at all, how can no one else see that.

even as far as a novel goes, the bible is very poorly written. full of absurdities and contradictions. Almost aas if, gosh, it was written by humans with little understanding of the world. could someone please explain to me why christians believe this nonsensical drool?

I'm not Christian, but I think I can answer this one. Because they believe that it is the word of God as handed down to whoever actually did the writing of any given book.

Originally posted by Babel Fish
christians, why do you believe the bible. honestly, it is just a book, what makes it true.

Knowing one's self makes it true. And if you can easily disregard the billions of people who have preceded you on this planet, who must have found some truth in it, then that is your choice.

If the bible is true, wouldn't harry potter prove that magic exists? it makes no sense at all, how can no one else see that.

How can you not see yourself? And, as for the bible not making any sense, it seems to be making a lot of cents to me.

even as far as a novel goes, the bible is very poorly written. full of absurdities and contradictions. Almost aas if, gosh, it was written by humans with little understanding of the world. could someone please explain to me why christians believe this nonsensical drool?

Yes, someone can explain to you why christians believe this non seen sick call, and then your mouth will water for more .... .. .

I'd hate to look at myself in the mirror if what I thought from the get-go was not appropriate for my soul.

I know there are many translations of the bible; yet they all say the same thing.

The scriptures encompasses the very essense of The LORD. Divine Inspiration beget unto humans.

For many: 'What is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

My faith is stricken upon my beliefs.

Originally posted by Babel Fish
christians, why do you believe the bible. honestly, it is just a book, what makes it true. If the bible is true, wouldn't harry potter prove that magic exists? it makes no sense at all, how can no one else see that.
even as far as a novel goes, the bible is very poorly written. full of absurdities and contradictions. Almost aas if, gosh, it was written by humans with little understanding of the world. could someone please explain to me why christians believe this nonsensical drool?

What you say is so true but there is no way Christians will ever see it as a book, to them it is the fountain of all wisdom even if the only net beneficiary is the Church collecting all their money. A fool and his money are soon parted!

Babel Fish,

You judge humanity as a whole, and billions of souls that preceded you as followers of nonsensical writings?

Wow. So many naive people in the world, it would be easy to take over this rock, third from the sun.

not many straight answers, just what I expected. My point was essentially proven, in order to believe in the bible you need to have some raw faith, the bible proves nothing alone.

just so you all know there is a magical unicorn in my backyard. He is all good, all knowing and the creator of the universe. You cannot see, smell, taste, hear or feel him, nor can you detect him with any form of technology. I know this to be true because I read it in a book. disprove that and I will stand corrected.

Babel Fish,

You judge humanity as a whole, and billions of souls that preceded you as followers of nonsensical writings?

yes, I know, pretty sad that through millions of generations we still believe that a magical jew created all things. I really hope there isn't any intelligent life out there because, not only we would be the laughing stock of the universe, but I think we would be removed from the list of intelligent life ourselves.

just because billions of people believe something to be true, doesn't mean it is. the best example i could normally give would be christianity. I do not judge humanity as a whole, obviously not everyone in history was christian or our standard of living would still be at that of the middle ages. however, christians judge billions of souls as followers of nonsensical writings, namely everyone who is not a christian.

Wow. So many naive people in the world

your telling me.

it would be easy to take over this rock, third from the sun.

haunts my every waking moment.

Babel Fish, clearly you have never read the Bible, nore done any research in to what it actually says. For one the Bible cannot be compared to Harry Potter because the places that are mentioned in the Bible are actually real. Harry Potter, not. But you just made a very silly example. Archeologically the Bible checks out. As for believing what the book says, there is plenty of scientific knowledge in the the old testament alone that was way before its time. Ill give you a couple examples, but i cannot state the exact quote from the Bible or where it is at the moment because i loaned the book that i read it in to a friend.

In the old testament when the people are instructed to circumsize their young, they are specifically told to do it on the 8th day. Now why the 8th day? What makes the 8th day any different from the first 7? Well the human body doesnt start producing vitamin K untill the 8th day after birth, and Vitamin K is essencial for blold klotting. So any kid curcumsized earier could have gotten an infection or bled to death. Clearly knowledge beond its time.

At sevral points in the old testament Gods chosen people are instructed to clense, themselves, pottery, utensils, clothing, ect. after coming in contact with dead bodies or animals. They are told to hold whatever needs cleaning under running water, or to boil the object in water to cleanse it. But why? Its kind of ironic that Doctors in hospitals didnt start washing their hands untill i believe the mid 1800's!! Doctors at the time would go from examining dead bodies in one room and walk down the hall to deliver a new born with out washing their hands. Now either Moses knew about the danger of germs, bacteria, viruses,(unlikley, we didnt know about it untill the mid 1800's) or the Bible is truly inspired by God, who told Moses to write these instructions to protect his people.

There are many many more that i cant think of right now. If you wish to explore the topic on your own there is an amazing book call "The Signature of God" by Grant R. Jeffrey. He goes over all the different scientific and medical knowlege in the Bible, and why you can truly believe that it is historically accurate.

Peace and Love.

You don't have to take the Bible literally to be a Christian, despite what some will tell you. The Bible can also be used as a book of metaphors and parables on how to live your life.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Duzey]

Originally posted by JTyrka away
Babel Fish, clearly you have never read the Bible, nore done any research in to what it actually says. For one the Bible cannot be compared to Harry Potter because the places that are mentioned in the Bible are actually real. Harry Potter, not. But you just made a very silly example. Archeologically the Bible checks out. As for believing what the book says, there is plenty of scientific knowledge in the the old testament alone that was way before its time.

Ok what about Bram Stokers Dracula? Real places and varifiable. But is Dracula the vampire real? No.
Theres plenty of scientific knowledge from other ancient sources, why do you give the bible credence when most of its info comes from other writings and cultures.

In the old testament when the people are instructed to circumsize their young, they are specifically told to do it on the 8th day. Now why the 8th day? What makes the 8th day any different from the first 7? Well the human body doesnt start producing vitamin K untill the 8th day after birth, and Vitamin K is essencial for blold klotting. So any kid curcumsized earier could have gotten an infection or bled to death. Clearly knowledge beond its time.

Yes clearly knowledge before its time!!!! So what use has the foreskin for an unborn baby and a baby up until 7 days? Why do we have foreskin if god deigns us to be circumsized?
So what your trying to say is that until 8 days old a child, if cut, would bleed to death? LOL thats why when a child is born they prick the foot of the child to get some blood and this stops bleeding. Also thought you might be interested in the fact that Vitamin K is passed through the placenta and also present in breast milk, so the child gets the vitamin anyway before and after your supposed 8 day restriction.

At sevral points in the old testament Gods chosen people are instructed to clense, themselves, pottery, utensils, clothing, ect. after coming in contact with dead bodies or animals. They are told to hold whatever needs cleaning under running water, or to boil the object in water to cleanse it. But why? Its kind of ironic that Doctors in hospitals didnt start washing their hands untill i believe the mid 1800's!! Doctors at the time would go from examining dead bodies in one room and walk down the hall to deliver a new born with out washing their hands. Now either Moses knew about the danger of germs, bacteria, viruses,(unlikley, we didnt know about it untill the mid 1800's) or the Bible is truly inspired by God, who told Moses to write these instructions to protect his people.

There is no evidence to suggest that the chosen people knew anything about bacteria and viruses and knew that cleanliness would help against diseases etc.

There are many many more that i cant think of right now. If you wish to explore the topic on your own there is an amazing book call "The Signature of God" by Grant R. Jeffrey. He goes over all the different scientific and medical knowlege in the Bible, and why you can truly believe that it is historically accurate.

Peace and Love.

People still believe in what Von Danniken says and we all know he's a fruitbat, why should this one book with one guy's opinions be taken as gospel??



G

This thread makes me smile.

My point was essentially proven, in order to believe in the bible you need to have some raw faith, the bible proves nothing alone.

If your point is PROVEN with what you just said.. you actually DID just figure it all out. The Bible -doesn't- PROVE anything.. that's WHY it's called FAITH! I like when people hold Christianity or any other religon to the same standards and Science and scoff when they don't stand up to scrutiny using the Scientific Method.

The Almighty Science cannot provide simple answers to simple concepts like..

Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?

Why can't Science answer these questions?? Because it isn't Philosophy or Religon. Does that make Science fallible? Of course not! Science is fallible for the same reason Religon is fallible, because HUMANS are fallible.

Can Science and Religon coexist? Yes. As proof I point to Notre Dame University Hospitals or any of the other Religous/Non-Secular Schools with ANY kind of Scientific Reseach centers.

Now for the challenge of disproving your Unicorn.

I know this to be true because I read it in a book. disprove that and I will stand corrected.

Can I read the book? Nope, because there isn't a book. Disproved.

shihulud, Archeology is one example for why the Bible is true, there are other historians (outside the Bible) that can attest that Jesus was a real historical figure and that he performed miracles. I am curious tho about what other ancient sources of scientific knowlege there are that the old testament apperantly got its mateiral from?

I never said that i baby would beed to death if cut before the 8th day, but its definitly possible. and you make a good point about vitamin K.

You are right that the chosen people didnt know about germs and bacteria. So agian why bother cleansing? Its unlikely that they would have made a connection between staying clean and staying alive. The cleansed because God told them to, to protect them.

Dont take "The Signature of God" as gospel, take it as a way to further your understanding of the Bible. In fact take it however you want, read it objectively and see where it takes you.

I read it because it inspires me to try great, and some times ubsurd things. I believe it because of the things I have seen and done that can't be explained by anyother means.
I think that the Bible get's so much "slack" is because it is hard to understand how a GOD so "loving" can allow such dasterdlyness to run rampid.
But...If you have read Revelations you would know that this is the way it is to be. Brother fighting brother and such.
The bible makes perfect sence, if you read ALL THE STORY. You can't get real knowledge from just finding and questioning phrases.
Sure it sayes "an eye for an eye" but have you read the whole passage? there is alot more than just a "no excuses" law.
The more you read, the more you will understand.
The more you understand, the more you will believe.

Just my point of view. Please don't be angry.

Originally posted by Babel Fish
christians, why do you believe the bible. honestly, it is just a book, what makes it true. If the bible is true, wouldn't harry potter prove that magic exists? it makes no sense at all, how can no one else see that.

even as far as a novel goes, the bible is very poorly written. full of absurdities and contradictions. Almost aas if, gosh, it was written by humans with little understanding of the world. could someone please explain to me why christians believe this nonsensical drool?

I believe the Bible to be the word of God. God could have communicated to us in many forms but He chose the written word. This is my presupposition.

Your presupposition though is that it CANNOT be the word of God for you have already stated, "it is just a book" and you then ask, "what makes it true(?)". It doesn't matter what evidence I bring forth you will always deny it as evidence as you have already again demonstrated by stating it is "poorly written. full of absurdities and contradictions".

You then end by calling it "nonsensical drool". Your presupposition is showing.

Now that I have answered your question let's see how your world view holds up and if it is "contradictory".

How do you know the word "evidence"?

Originally posted by JTyrka away
shihulud, Archeology is one example for why the Bible is true, there are other historians (outside the Bible) that can attest that Jesus was a real historical figure and that he performed miracles. I am curious tho about what other ancient sources of scientific knowlege there are that the old testament apperantly got its mateiral from?

I never said that i baby would beed to death if cut before the 8th day, but its definitly possible. and you make a good point about vitamin K.

Do you have links to these other historians?
I dont really debate the possibility that there was a person that the biblical jesus is based on, it just wasn't the exact same person written in the bible. However I do disagree on the performing of miracles which can be dismissed as illusions, slight of hand or complete fraud.
It would depend on the knowledge you are looking for, the sumerians, the greeks, the egyptians etc all had scientific knowledge - take the psalms/proverbs for instance, supposedly written by solomon, have there roots in the Egyptian pharoahs.

The thing about circumsision is why are males born with foreskin if god doesn't want them to have it? Why not have designed males without foreskin? Why dont jews circumsize their females like some African tribes?


G

There is no archaeological proof that Jesus performed miracles
Nor is there any proof that he was born on Christmas and of a Virgin. But there is proof that there are myths that follow this same concept throughout the middle east and south asia. (try telling a christian this and they'll flip out and call you a heathen)

And there is a perfectly reasonable explaination for how cleaning things ended up in the bible. Maybe they didn't know about bacteria and such, but I'm sure they saw enough people die from eating out of filthy plates to decide to write it down somewhere.

Same reason they can't eat pork (even though Christians flipped that one once they realized how tasty a pork chop can be). The fact is that if the truth is written in a book, and only one book, why should I believe that it is this book and not the Quran, or Upanishads, or Talmud? And why should I believe that if I don't follow it I deserve to burn for eternity? If anything, that's the losing point, and the point at which I say that the bible itself is inherantly evil

Originally posted by Babel Fish
not many straight answers, just what I expected. My point was essentially proven, in order to believe in the bible you need to have some raw faith, the bible proves nothing alone.

i thank you for the funny thought, but neither do i judge you nor fault you for it.

just so you all know there is a magical unicorn in my backyard.

magical unicorn [mirror of eye you choose, aka, Ophiuchus] in our time see i in you love all lake see i g game am aim 3.

He is all good, all knowing and the creator of the universe. You cannot see, smell, taste, hear or feel him, nor can you detect him with any form of technology.

you can not see god?
you can not smell god?
you can not taste god?
you can not hear god?
you can not feel god?

since you choose that you can not sense god, why would you judge god?

I know this to be true because I read it in a book.

you were not paying attention to the book! you were not seeing the book, you were not smelling the book, you were not tasting the book, you were not hearing the book, you were not feeling the book, none of these things you did fully!

be not afraid, and do not fear me. i am just words of my truth, in the nude, before you for your judgement. are my words of truth going to be compatible with your truth? find your truth within, and compare it, please, i beg you, i need your input and criticism, please.

disprove that and I will stand corrected.

first you ask me to know you better than you know yourself, for this is the proof you requested, you are my god most high, so here is what you asked me for, so that i may prove you right, not disprove you, or correct you, but you will stand up and acknowledge, recognize, accept it as it is, love it if it is your enemy, and choose if it is true or false.

yes or no? free will is free .. . . . . .


they know something. they know god is real. they know that the antichrist does not return as the son.

the antichrist does not come as the son, he comes as the father.

and the father will have to prove he knows man more than man knows himself:

a silly odd man in the nude set out only with his truth, and the truth of his people in plight, fearlessly following the truth, and the ultimate questions.

the silly odd man was assigned by god to answer these questions:
"what is love's definition?"
"what is love's opposite?"
"what is love's enemy?"
"what is a soul?"
"what are my people suffering for?"

and the silly odd man in the nude and armed only with his truth which he had adopted by everyone he had ever known, and his truth, and his words of truth and approached hate the opposite of love and said:

"fear not, i am here in the nude, here is my truth, is it compatible with yours?"

hate spoke:
" i protect fear, for how can you truly hate anyone without first fearing that they can take from you that which you love?"

and the deciever fell weeping, here is my truth, as you have approached me, fearlessly and in the nude you, silly odd man, i will approach you the same, and name you: som.

som, what do you love?

0 - your first love was a given to you. it was your instinct of "self before you serve, aka, self preserve, aka, self preservation, aka, survive. not your fault, not your shame, not your guilt, not your fault, not our judgment, but yours if you awaken.

1 - your first (1st) love was FEAR, the byproduct of "self before you serve, aka, survive". not your fault, not your shame, not your guilt, not your fault, not our judgment, but yours if you awaken.

2 - your second (2nd) love was FOOD, as you needed it to grow, for cellular replication, so you would know how to determine and quantify, and define what your fears and fear should be.

3 - your third (3rd) love was FAMILY, as they provided you with more food, and more understanding of what fear was, they nurtured you and protected you, and hid from you your fears. not your fault, not your shame, not your guilt, not your fault, not our judgment, but yours if you awaken.

4 - your fourth (4th) love was FRIENDS, as they provided you with more knowledge, and they and their masks made you feel safe, they made you feel as though you belonged, they made you feel as though you were accepted, which you were. you were accepted by their masks of fears, lonliness, sadness, sorrow, and hate. you gave them what you thought they expected and what they wanted. you acknowledged them, you recognized them, you accepted them as they were with their masks, you loved them for what they were with their masks. not your fault, not your shame, not your guilt, not your fault, not our judgment, but yours if you awaken.

5 - your fifth (5th) love was F*%#ING. you were curious about this thing called love, and you are a physical creature only if you choose to be. So, in order to answer god's questions of "what is love, and what is love's opposite" you tried to understand love by experiencing the physical manifestation of love, and to answer the questions of "what is love, and what is love's opposite, what is love's enemy?". not your fault, not your shame, not your guilt, not your fault, not our judgment, but yours if you awaken.

6 - your sixth (6th) love was FINANCES. as they provided for you more understanding and experiencing of your first 5 loves, and helped mask the first and second from you, because you feared them. be not afraid.

hate, you are a mask of fear and do not exist.

how can any of god's creatures hate without fearing loosing that which they love?

i know what you love.

you love your truth, but until now you have not identified what it is that you have loved. your first loves are not your fault, be not afraid.

the burden is with the one who would know more than you. be not afraid.

the number of the beast is man.

the number of the beast is man's first loves.

what is man's first loves? truth? no. your first loves are:

fear
food
family
friends
f*%#ing
finances


SIX (6) loves SIX (6) times you put before truth, all of which begin with the SIX (6th) letter of the "ALL FIB I BET ..... alphibet", and you placed the "F" before the SEVENTH (7th), the "G".

the silly odd man said, no, look ..... ...

the 6th letter from the end of the alphibet is the: +, the T !!!!!!!

it is for truth, turned inwards towards the beginning.

do you understand?

judge this truth, see if it is compatible with yours. be not afraid.

and the silly odd man who stood in the nude with only truth and words of truth said:
i thank you for your time.

if i have not lied to you, take these words of truth, they are yours and i give them freely, share them with whomever you want, and everyone you want, please i beg you. have others judge this truth to see if they choose to accept it as their truth. true of false? yes or no?

i thank you for your time.

yes, I know, pretty sad that through millions of generations we still believe that a magical jew created all things.

be not afraid, all is forgiven.

I really hope there isn't any intelligent life out there

yes you do, you just hope they would be loving the truth more than man.

because,...we would be the laughing stock of the universe, but I think we would be removed from the list of intelligent life ourselves.

never happened, never is happening, never will happen.

just because billions of people believe something to be true, doesn't mean it is.

but, if they all did .. . .. .. .. .

the best example i could normally give would be christianity.

i am glad you heard of that one, one named "christ".

I do not judge humanity as a whole, obviously not everyone in history was christian or our standard of living would still be at that of the middle ages. however, christians judge billions of souls as followers of nonsensical writings, namely everyone who is not a christian.

it would be easy to take over this rock, third from the sun.

haunts my every waking moment.

don't be afraid. saint + (adds) in you a h

adds in you a h?

all hells, and all heavens in one frame of mind, your first truth may be your soul, your connection to all of it, buried behind the masks of fear.

Hey ET, I keep seeing your 666 explaination, but one thing throws me. You keep saying F@#$%^G, when you could just as easily say fornicating (also an F word).

Aside from that, I think your last post ,although obviously taking a long time to write, doesn't say anything. It's may be an attempt to explain in an esoteric pseudo-phylosophical manner the validity of your claims (666).

The truth is anyone can come up with one of them too, explaining why 718 is the numerological equivalent of a cheeseburger, and not just a brooklyn area code. It just takes a little time to get the random info together.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Hey ET, I keep seeing your 666 explaination, but one thing throws me. You keep saying F@#$%^G, when you could just as easily say fornicating (also an F word).

i thank you for your truth. i shall change it for you when i write my book. i am just a silly odd man. i thank you for your time.

It's may be an attempt to explain in an esoteric pseudo-phylosophical manner the validity of your claims (666).

666 was not my claims, it existed long before i was born. it is said that 666 is the number of man, so i try to define and quantify what man loves more than the truth, not my truth alone, but humanity's truth. not my claims, yours.

The truth is anyone can come up with one of them too, explaining why 718 is the numerological equivalent of a cheeseburger, and not just a brooklyn area code. It just takes a little time to get the random info together.

i thank you for your time,
a silly odd man in the nude with only his truth, and the words of truth, so that you may provide me feedback and judge the words i bring to you, to see if the truth is compatible with your truth.

ok first off,

The Almighty Science cannot provide simple answers to simple concepts like..

Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?

Simple concepts? I can think of no more difficult questions to answer.

Can I read the book? Nope, because there isn't a book. Disproved.

I was speaking hypothetically.

and esoteric teacher...I don't know what to say to you. either there is some hidden wisdom in there or just babble, in either case, I am speachless.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by Babel Fish]