mafioso and masonic handshake

this goes out to all the brothern out there, i will not post any images, being in the concrete business , i come in contact will allot of iltalians who per-say are connected. ive come to learn that the mob uses the same 3 grips as in masonry to distingish themselfs in reconition to their rank ex. soilder,capo, boss
are there any other masons out there that have came across this as well? i would have pressed the matter with my iltalian friends but i didnt want to "go for a drive" to discuss it.

If the mafia uses masonic handshakes as their own, then the mafia handshakes are publically known.

I doubt that the mafia handshakes are publically known.

Originally posted by doggmann
this goes out to all the brothern out there, i will not post any images, being in the concrete business , i come in contact will allot of iltalians who per-say are connected. ive come to learn that the mob uses the same 3 grips as in masonry to distingish themselfs in reconition to their rank ex. soilder,capo, boss
are there any other masons out there that have came across this as well? i would have pressed the matter with my iltalian friends but i didnt want to "go for a drive" to discuss it.

You have probably heard wrong, there are 3 different sects in the Mafia: Cosa Nostra, Camorra and N'dragheta, maybe a clan near where you live decided to mimic the Masons. In the proper etiquette recognition of rank is usually through embraces and kisses.

this is well know that guiseppe Mazzini whose name is included in the initials MAFIA was a mason of higest degree and he was in charge of the carbonari and the illuminati as well.

so i guess this is implied that mafia shakes hands with freemasonry...

cheers

Originally posted by rougevif
this is well know that guiseppe Mazzini whose name is included in the initials MAFIA was a mason of higest degree and he was in charge of the carbonari and the illuminati as well.
so i guess this is implied that mafia shakes hands with freemasonry...
cheers

How do you manage to make that many mistakes in two short sentences is baffling;

Giuseppe Mazzini had nothing to do with the Mafia, he was not a Mason(never mind highest degree), he was not in charge of either the Carbonari or the Illuminati.
He was a member of the Carbonari movement.

"Mazzini, Giuseppe, 1805–72, Italian patriot and revolutionist, an outstanding figure of the Risorgimento. His youth was spent in literary and philosophical studies. He early joined the Carbonari, was imprisoned briefly, and went into exile. In Marseilles he founded the secret society Giovine Italia [young Italy], which led a vigorous campaign for Italian unity under a republican government".

Maybe you just like controversy?

My college fraternity handshake was also very similar to the Masonic handshake I wonder if the founders of my frat were in the mob also

Originally posted by rougevif
this is well know that guiseppe Mazzini whose name is included in the initials MAFIA was a mason of higest degree and he was in charge of the carbonari and the illuminati as well.

Mazzini was not in the AISB. I have heard that he was an irregular mason, and, in the lead up to the Risorgimento, he organized many italians, both on the boot and in siciliy. That hardly means he is connected to the Mafia, or that masonry is connected to the mafia, implications or not.

so i guess this is implied that mafia shakes hands with freemasonry

Since we're not talking about mere speculation here, thats not going to suffice.

Mazzini was a regular Mason and 33° Scottish Rite Mason. He was not at any time ever associated with the mafia.

Mazzini was also a member of the Carbonari, and was the founder of Young Italy, of which Garibaldi was a member.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Mazzini was a regular Mason and 33° Scottish Rite Mason. He was not at any time ever associated with the mafia.

Mazzini was also a member of the Carbonari, and was the founder of Young Italy, of which Garibaldi was a member.

I don't wish to appear too controversial, but here are two italian sites that confirm that Mazzini was never a mason..

www.grandeoriente.it...

www.grandlodge-italy.org...

The second one is from the Grand Lodge of Italy, unfortunately it is in italian but the relevant translation is:

Nel 2005 ricorre il duecentesimo anniversario della nascita di Giuseppe Mazzini. Nonostante alcuni websites su internet indichino il Mazzini fra i Massoni famosi, probabilmente sviati da una pubblicistica di parte specialmente attiva dopo la morte del grande patriota italiano, egli non fu mai iniziato alla Libera Muratoria né in Italia né all'estero.

2005 was the two hundredth anniversary of Mazzini's birth. Notwitstanding the fact that various websites count Mazzini amongst famous Masons ...bla..bla... he was never initiated into Freemasonry either in Italy or abroad.

Originally posted by Belinquest


I don't wish to appear too controversial

Why not? Controversy is the heart and soul of ATS!

but here are two italian sites that confirm that Mazzini was never a mason..

According to the Grand Lodge of British Columbia, whose apparent source is the Missouri Lodge of Research, Mazzini was Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy:

Giuseppe Mazzini (1805-1872), Grand Master, Grand Orient of Italy

Source

From Columbia Dictionary we have:

Notable European Masons included Voltaire, Giuseppe Mazzini, Giuseppe Garibaldi, Franz Joseph Haydn, Johann von Goethe, Johann von Schiller, and many leaders of Russia's Decembrist revolt (1825).

Source

Mackey and Coil also list Mazzini as Past Grand Master, as well as a regular 33°. I'll have to look further into it, as I was not aware that his membership status was in dispute.

this is really funny to hear americans speaking about mafia when they probably have never been to italy...

you should review your sources concerning Mazzini. he was indeed part of the mafia and it doesn t need 200 IQ to figure out that politics in Italy is in bed with mafia.

ciao belli...non sto zito...

The mafia really doesnt need secret handshakes at all because each family is well THAT. A FAMILY. They already know each other.

One big misconception is that all the family's work together to make this big "mafia" or "mob" but nothing could be farther from the trueth. each family works it's own city with it's own boss. Which is always the head of the family. Now one "family" may have members belong to it who arnt related, but they dont go threw rituals like masons do. So they have no reason to use hand shakes at all other then a good old fashion firm hand shake.

Originally posted by rougevif
this is really funny to hear americans speaking about mafia when they probably have never been to italy...
you should review your sources concerning Mazzini. he was indeed part of the mafia and it doesn t need 200 IQ to figure out that politics in Italy is in bed with mafia.

ciao belli...non sto zito...

If you have to use Italian to impress at least spell it correctly, the frase is " non sto zitto", double t. which translates as "I don't shut up". The more correct and better frase is - non tacero'- or I will not be quite.


[edited out speculation on member, please lets try to not add drama to an already dramatic subject -nygdan]

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by rougevif


this is really funny to hear americans speaking about mafia when they probably have never been to italy...

you should review your sources concerning Mazzini. he was indeed part of the mafia and it doesn t need 200 IQ to figure out that politics in Italy is in bed with mafia.

ciao belli...non sto zito...

There is not one single historian who has ever linked Mazzini to the mafia. Such a claim is farcical.

Dear all,

you can simply google Mazzini+mafia to see what you got...hihihi

of course Mazzini was not only a 33 degree but on the fathers of modern free masonry in italy.

cheers

Originally posted by rougevif


Dear all,

you can simply google Mazzini+mafia to see what you got...hihihi

Do you believe everything you read online?

To reiterate what I said earlier, there is not one single historian who claims that Mazzini was involved with the mafia, in any way, shape, or form. The claim is completely bogus.

From what I've heard (well, alright, read), the allegation is that Mazzini went to Sicily, and organized the sicilians as part of the lead up to the Risorgimento, and that this formed the seed from which the mafia ultimately sprang.

I'd think that anyone suggesting that would have to wonder, does this imply that the sicilians were not organized along familiar lines already!??

Originally posted by Nygdan
From what I've heard (well, alright, read), the allegation is that Mazzini went to Sicily, and organized the sicilians as part of the lead up to the Risorgimento, and that this formed the seed from which the mafia ultimately sprang.

I'd think that anyone suggesting that would have to wonder, does this imply that the sicilians were not organized along familiar lines already!??

I believe that to understand the Mafia one has to go back a long time in history.
Sicily was a proud Greek land until Rome became powerful and exploited Sicily.
Romans were followed by Arabs, Normans, Spaniards (Bourbons) and lately Italians.
As the various invaders imposed their structure, the locals looked for protection amongst their compatriots, they only trusted each other and there was always an invisible inner agreement. Before Mafia became known as organized crime it was a frame of mind, a way of life.
Gaia Servadio wrote a very authoritative book on the subject and here is an interesting link that talks about the earlier nobles:

www.bestofsicily.com...

Indeed, sicily has one of the oldest advanced civlizations in europe, even pre-dating the colonization of the greek, and punics too. One 'etymological' explanation of 'mafia' that I have heard is that its a corruption of something like 'ma famia' or something liek 'my family'. It doesn't take Mazzini or the masons to get families to stick together in chaotic times, especially like those that Sicily has had to endure over the millenia.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, sicily has one of the oldest advanced civlizations in europe, even pre-dating the colonization of the greek, and punics too. One 'etymological' explanation of 'mafia' that I have heard is that its a corruption of something like 'ma famia' or something liek 'my family'. It doesn't take Mazzini or the masons to get families to stick together in chaotic times, especially like those that Sicily has had to endure over the millenia.

Obviously not, as for the origin of the name I think nobody is sure; some believe that the word derives from the Arabic, "either from mahias, meaning a bold man or a braggart, or from Ma afir, the name of the Saracen tribe that ruled Palermo. A third theory of Arab origin relates mafia to maha, a quarry or a cave in a rock. The mafie, the tuff caves in the Marsala region, served as hiding places.
The theory which assigns the greatest antiquity to this society suggests that mafia is a corruption of the Arabic word mu afah, in which mu means something like 'inviolability, strength, vigour,' and afah something like "to secure, to protect.' Mu afah had therefore been an association which provided security for its members.