Folks, This Is Getting Serious

To Speakeroftruth,

You may want to look at this page.

www.epa.gov...

Now, I'm just a simple New York University MBA. I don't know what all this legislation is about, but, it looks to me that they are holding "big companies" here in America accountable for what goes on in the enviorment.

I know you don't think that's what all that is about but, it is. all the "acts" listed are there to protect the enviorment.

My question about all of the rules and ordinances that such organizations as OSHA and the EPA put out is how much of it is enforced? I suspect that they pass legislation that is not throughly enforced by the governemnt agencies that pass them.

Let me make a point. We all know about campaign financing. Don't we? Now, does anyone actually believe that a president, regardless of whether he/she is Republican or Democrat, is going to step on the toes of their campaign contributors? I mean, really?

I am quite aware that the government has all of these "alphabet clubs," for the lack of a better word, to pass environmental legislation,but how much of it is being enforced? I suspect not as much as we would all like to think.



[edit on 25-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Speakeroftruth,

The more I read threads on ATS, the less I like it. Some of you folks make a blanket statement, put it out there to get responses and then when you get something you don't like, you "tweek" it to say, "that's not what i meant, I really meant "this" or "that".

Now, I'm not going to get into a big argument with you or discuss politics, (your reference to campain finance reform does not belong in this discussion).

Let me list a few more sites for you to take a look at.

www.energyvortex.com...

The above site is about converting "waste to energy" This is BIG BUSINESS being ACCOUNTABLE and trying to do something about waste.

But, of course, not good enough for the environmental lobby. They are against this movement and fighting it at every corner....What else is knew?

You may want to take a look at this site also:

www.envirolink.org...

This is a site totally devoted to the ENFORCEMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS. Your going to want to take a look at this. This may open your eyes to a couple of things.

You can't come up with this thread of yours and blame big business and then say no one is accountable. That is nonsense. Today, as you well know, the environmental lobby has made global warming the hottest topic for discussion in this country as well as around the world. All companies are aware of it and they are doing something about it.

It is only from big business that we will get the solutions to global warming, because they are the ones who must "produce products that we use" in such a way as NOT to contribute to global warming. Now, they are going to have to produce these products differently. But, alas, this is going to take some time. Again, this is not good enough for the environmental lobby. All they know is how to yell and scream, they offer up no solutions.

What is your solution to global warming? .............................

Originally posted by ProfTom
Speakeroftruth,

The more I read threads on ATS, the less I like it. Some of you folks make a blanket statement, put it out there to get responses and then when you get something you don't like, you "tweek" it to say, "that's not what i meant, I really meant "this" or "that".

Now, I'm not going to get into a big argument with you or discuss politics, (your reference to campain finance reform does not belong in this discussion).

What is your solution to global warming? .............................

You are right, campaign finance reform does not belong in this discussion and it wouldn't have entered it if...you hadn't stepped right into it by bringing up regulations that companies must abide by...Who are these regulations designed by? Generally the EPA. Who selects the head of the EPA? The president. Where does the president receive the bulk of his campaign monies? The big industrialized corporations, no less. So, in the context of the point you are trying to make it has absolute business in the discussion.

What is my solution? You nor the big corporations would likely approve of my solution to it. In all honesty, I think we live in an overly materialistic society that demands products, which are not only harmful to the environment but to individual health ,to be produced.

If people would learn how to conserve on products and energy the corporations would not have to mass product so many items. The lessening of demand alone would cut down on the needless polluting of the ecosystem. You see,we live in a society that has bowed down to mammon, (money and materialism), as long as we do that we will continue to put economic revenue in front of everything else in scale of importance.



[edit on 26-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 26-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 26-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 26-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

ProfTom, I suggest you take a look at what big corporations are actually doing:

Thinking Globally, Acting Vocally: The International Conspiracy to Overheat the Earth
Topics: global warming
by Bob Burton and Sheldon Rampton

As corporations, products and issues have internationalized, the PR industry has followed. The recent negotiations over global warming in Kyoto, Japan illustrate just how high the stakes have become and how the PR industry helps broker international coalitions of corporations, think tanks and industry-funded scientists to achieve industry goals.

Among scientists, the consensus is nearly unanimous that the world's climate is suffering damage from burning oil, coal and gasoline, a consensus echoed by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences as well as the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a working group of 2,500 climate experts sponsored by the United Nations to study the problem.

In 1995, the IPCC warned bluntly that the earth has entered a period of climatic instability likely to cause "widespread economic, social and environmental dislocation over the next century," including crop-destroying droughts, a host of new and recurring diseases, devastating hurricanes, and rising sea levels that could inundate island nations and low-lying coastal rims on the continents. To avert a catastrophe, IPCC called for policy measures to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases by 20% below 1990 levels.

Such changes, of course, would seriously alter the lucrative status quo enjoyed by big polluting industries. In order to prevent IPCC's recommendation from becoming reality, industry groups including fuel companies, automobile makers and other manufacturers have poured millions of dollars into a bewildering array of green-sounding front groups whose mission is to sow confusion about the issue.

www.prwatch.org...

speakeroftrueth,

You are trying to turn this into a political discussion by siting the liberal Left wing website the center for media and democracy. I'm not going down that road with you, sorry.

Your "external source" is nothing more than an "opinion piece". Of course, it has to be an "international conspiracy".

If you want to discuss what is going on to combat global warming, I'd be happy to come back, but, you just want to see doom and gloom. You have no hope for a future that is not doom and gloom.

You don't want to look at what is being done. You only want to lay blame on somebody or something.

Sorry, I'm not gonna argue politics with you.

Originally posted by ProfTom
speakeroftrueth,

You are trying to turn this into a political discussion by siting the liberal Left wing website the center for media and democracy. I'm not going down that road with you, sorry.

Your "external source" is nothing more than an "opinion piece". Of course, it has to be an "international conspiracy".

If you want to discuss what is going on to combat global warming, I'd be happy to come back, but, you just want to see doom and gloom. You have no hope for a future that is not doom and gloom.

You don't want to look at what is being done. You only want to lay blame on somebody or something.

Sorry, I'm not gonna argue politics with you.

There is some merit to what you just said. I do tend to look at the world's situation, not only environmental but spiritual and political as well, kind of negatively. When I look around me,when I really examine things, it all looks pretty bleak.

Look,I am not saying that things aren't going to work out. In reality, I think that things are going to be okay in the end. However, I don't necessarily think the path that humanity is choosing for itself to get to "things being okay" is the best nor fastest way to get there.

Now, believe it or not, at least morally, I tend to be very conservative as far as my political stance goes. I usually label my self a moderate who leans a bit to the right. However, on the issue of the environment, I feel like the political "right" has totally ignored it.

It gets back to what I said previously,we sacrifice things that really matter, like a healthy environment, for economic gain. I digress because you do not wish to enter the political spectrum of the issue, which is odd because it is a political issue,but I will respect your wishes.

Speaker

Okay, you got me back. I don't want to get political, because that just places blame on someone or something. I want to see who is doing something to help the environment.

Now that that's been said, lets talk about the environment. Take a look at this web site,

www.fws.gov...

Now, don't give me any nonsense about how this is a government website and they're gonna tell us what we want to here.

The endangered species list is for the specific purpose of saving animals, i.e. the american bald eagle, the grizzly bear, the black bear, the american wolf, the american buffalo, elks, just to name a few and god only knows how many smaller animals they protect.

Yes, species come off and new species go on the list. This is how we preseve said species.

Personally, I love nature, the outdoors, wildlife and animals. I am an avid camper, hiker, backpacker, fisherman. So much good has happened in the last 20 years alone. There was a time that you could not eat fish out of a part of the delaware river valley. Now you can. Roscoe NY, which has some of the greatest fly fishing in the northeast was also endagered, but no more. This is due to the clean up programs and the no dumping rules and regulations put out by the government.

Between the EPA/DEP/GAME WARDENS and PETA - before you go fishing (in new york) you better have all the licenses your supposed to have and you better not be taking any fish out of season. If you do you get fined.

I'm going to agree with you that at one time, 30 years ago, yeah, big business didn't care about the environment or protecting it.

But in todays age of alternate news sorces, and the internet - - companies can no longer afford not to care about the environment and there surroundings. Do you know how much negative press they would recieve?

I.E. the movie Erin Brochovich - califoria power and light? was that the company? Do you know she has a website, and the law firm she works for -- that's what they do...They go after companies for polluting!!! This is only one area of law they practice.

I can't accept your statements that no one is doing anything. If you go to the other site I listed you'll see a lot more.

But, My point, there are people doing things. Legislation that is past - is being enforced. And by who? People like you and me. People who care. You cannot stick your head in the sand or just complain that something has got to be done. You've got to get out there and do something.

In my community, we (my family) volunteer for the local greenbelt society that manages over 65 miles of nature trails. I have heard of other volunteers reporting local gardners for dumping, guess what? They were fined, not only for dumping but a complete investigation into the company was done and they were fined for other things as well, I don't remember all the particulars but, i'm gonna try to find the article.

Originally posted by ProfTom

I'm going to agree with you that at one time, 30 years ago, yeah, big business didn't care about the environment or protecting it.

But in todays age of alternate news sorces, and the internet - - companies can no longer afford not to care about the environment and there surroundings. Do you know how much negative press they would recieve?

I.E. the movie Erin Brochovich - califoria power and light? was that the company? Do you know she has a website, and the law firm she works for -- that's what they do...They go after companies for polluting!!! This is only one area of law they practice.

I can't accept your statements that no one is doing anything. If you go to the other site I listed you'll see a lot more.

But, My point, there are people doing things. Legislation that is past - is being enforced. And by who? People like you and me. People who care. You cannot stick your head in the sand or just complain that something has got to be done. You've got to get out there and do something.

I actually come closer to agreeing with you than you may think,Tom. One of the things that you just stated I whole heartedly agree with. You said:

You cannot stick your head in the sand or just complain that something has got to be done. You've got to get out there and do something.

I agree 1000%!!! It's easy for me and others to sit and type up a bunch of complains about the environment,but it's another to get up and do something about it. One of te drawbacks of the "net" and sites such as this is that it gives people the avenue to gripe but isn't very conducive in getting them to act.

I do realize,and have for quite some time, that possibly things aren't quite as bad as we have been led to believe. However, when I turn on my T.V or log on to the "net" and there are all of this miserable reports about "Ice the size of Texas melting in one year," it gives me reason to be concerned. So, I mean, I sort of have mixed emotions on this topic,really.

[edit on 26-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Something else that impresses me about the link you just provided, it shows how individuals are beginning to step in to help with environmental concerns. That is uplifting to know. I wasn't aware of how much of that was going on.

Speakeroftruth,

You see, once "WE" get past "the laying blame additude", we can get something done. We can work towards a common goal.

Now, you have to do what I did. You have to say to yourself, "what can i do to help?"

I say this because, it is up to us - "citizens" - the "grass roots" if you will, to do something. The question is; What can I do?

Now, here's what I've done and let me tell you, once you start something, its contagious. Other family, friends and neighbors want to be involved.

As I mentioned, my family does trail maintenence for the local park system. When we started 5-6 years ago there were only local scout troups doing the cleanup. My kids (3 of them) thought it was a great idea. (Do you know how much closer I am to my kids today, than 5 years ago?)
Every February we get out the calander and pick 1 saturday a month from April through October to get out and clean up. The volunteer force has grown from just the four of us to over 130-160 people, mostly from my neighborhood an friends of my children.

I have turned my family into recycling junkies. We recycle everything. We don't but anything that is packaged in plastics, polystirene (spelling?) or any material that we cannot recycle or is not biodegradable. Once you start, it is easy to maintain.

The biggest thing i've done is to convert to solar energy. About 2 1/2 years ago i was going to add another room onto my home. During the process I was wondering how much it would cost and what it would take to due the conversion. Well it cost about $30,000 so when I took a home equity loan, I just added that on. Here's the best part, I get a tax credit every year for the life of the system due to a law that was past several years ago. This same law says that the local power company must buy any surplus energy my system produces!!!! How good is that!!! It's not much, it covers the cost of remaining hooked up to the grid, so its a breakeven deal. But, I have not had an electric bill for 2 years considering my bill was about 175 per month x's 28 months = $4,900 or so not paid to the electric company!!!

The solar system was such a big deal on my block, two of my neighbors laughed at me. But, I was the one laughing during the last blackout.

My next thing is a hybrid car. I have not been able to due enough research on them yet. From what I've heard, they are no bargain when it come to saving money on gas but i'm more concerned about the amount of Co2 it lets out into the air.

Do you know any good sites on these hybrids?

You see, we as people, citizens, neighbors, it is "us" that has to due something. We can't wait for big business or governments to do anything. After all, It is "US" that makes up businesses and governments.

Originally posted by ProfTom

The biggest thing i've done is to convert to solar energy. About 2 1/2 years ago i was going to add another room onto my home. During the process I was wondering how much it would cost and what it would take to due the conversion. Well it cost about $30,000 so when I took a home equity loan, I just added that on. Here's the best part, I get a tax credit every year for the life of the system due to a law that was past several years ago. This same law says that the local power company must buy any surplus energy my system produces!!!! How good is that!!! It's not much, it covers the cost of remaining hooked up to the grid, so its a breakeven deal. But, I have not had an electric bill for 2 years considering my bill was about 175 per month x's 28 months = $4,900 or so not paid to the electric company!!!

The solar system was such a big deal on my block, two of my neighbors laughed at me. But, I was the one laughing during the last blackout.

My next thing is a hybrid car. I have not been able to due enough research on them yet. From what I've heard, they are no bargain when it come to saving money on gas but i'm more concerned about the amount of Co2 it lets out into the air.

Do you know any good sites on these hybrids?

I certainly applaud you for bringing up solar power. I think that solar power is probably the wave of the future. I certainly hope so. Hybrid cars are a good start. I don't know of any good sites off hand about them,but I will certainly try to find some for you.