Why do you NOT agree that ALL of the evidence should be released?

I cant see how showing the footage of a plane hitting the pentagon would cause issues for national security.
We've already had 1 piece of footage released,
we're being told every day the flight path, the type of plane, where it hit, what happened after wards... we've seen hundereds of photos from the scene, zaccarus is already locked up and convicted..
Exactly how could this video jeopardize national security?

And granted, there's still a % of people that will scream high to hell that the footage is STILL a forgery, or trickery or something, but surely thats of the governments own fault.

Releasing the first round of pentagon footage did nothing to show evidence of the governments claim, showed them to be lying being they said there WAS NO Footage and pretty much spelled out that NO BOEING airliner hit the pentagon.

If the government released definitive footage of a plane hitting, and the academics STILL argue there case.. it would just lower the cred and there public standing.
Helping the administration, by showing these academics to be looking for excuses to have a go

I dont know how people can claim theres PROOF a plane hit,
when's theres just as much proof out there that a PLANE didnt hit.

And being the government refuses to back up there claims, is the complete opposite of a truthful mans STANCE.

Both sides conclusions, and points regarding their theories are purely based on educated assements.. photo analasys, personal beliefs and understanding. Because there is no evidence of what happened, accept a grainy few frames, some scrap metal and the ''official story''

But simpy because the government is on the side of the ' hijacked boeing' theory doesnt mean they are automatically CORRECT.

I like the way tho, the WTC planes can crash, and have such extreme heat too MELT the towers supports and bring them down,
yet the pentagons fire wasnt strong enough to melt the plastic on a computer monitor immediately next to the 'crash zone'

There's a thread or two on the board that include numerous photos of the interior of the Pentagon showing huge airplane parts that are unlikely to have been deposted there unless an aircraft actually struck the building.

One reader surmised that perhaps a missle struck the Pentagon right in the middle of the aircraft parts storage locker. I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

As to your other arguments, I just don't know.

[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

There are lots- of threads on ATS that go over those points Grady but a little off topic for this thread...

National security? What does that mean exactly? We are not even safe from our own government..

National security is nothing but an excuse, a very weak excuse, for holding evidence.

We are the nation, when are we going to get to decide what's safe for us?

Pictures/videos from WTC/pentagoon weren't needed for 'them' to carry out 9-11, so
why would it be a problem to release them now?

Maybe they are hiding something? What a thought!

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Because there still may be trials in the off chance we capture Osama (or decide to try Sheikh Khalid Muhammed) Of course there is also the other issue about the tons (literally) of evidence that will take YEARS to catalog, let alone search for FOIA requests.

Make me understand exactly, why releasing footage of the pentagon attack would effect a trial? Its public knowledge what happened, we know the flight paths, weve seen the chipped images, we've seen photos, we know casualties, weve sene the camps in afghan weve had alqaeda painted on news outlets for years now..
so why showing us footage fo something we already know is going to effect a trial?
Plus, lower down you state there is no footage apart from what we've seen..
so which is it? its being withheld for a trial... which isnt happening.. or it doesnt exist?

Sorry, but the evidence of ground zero wasnt destroyed. Unless you are speaking of some of the steel of the WTC. Of course three separate agencies tested the steel before any of it was allowed to be recycled.

When its the government hirering a company, to deal with the wreckage from the towers, AND from the pentagon.. it raises eyebrows.
It gives the FBI and the government a chance to REMOVE any suspicous or contradicting evidence BEFORE it gets to those seperate agencies.
This creates a CHANCE for intervention, which means you cannot STATE definitivley the rubble was inspected fully by public means.

You've seen it. Why do you assume that there is more evidence that actually shows anything?

Well we are with holding the evidence for trials sake for starters,
we have testimony that fbi removed the security tapes from various public places around the pentagon, and further more the FBI Stated there WAS NO FOOTAGE.. then released frames from footage when challeneged.
Again, this creates doubt as to the governments statement.
We havent seen the footage, we've seen FRAMEs, and a SEGMANT..
I assume theres more evidence bceause this is the PENTAGON.
Having one booth security camera doesnt cut it.

Sorry, but NORAD wasnt "stood down" that day.

They didnt stand down, but its obvious they didnt follow protocal correctly, and ensure interceptors were scrambled.
They managed to perform this task dozens of times in the previous months, but on the big day, when they became aware of multiple hijackings, and suicide missions.. they failed in scrambling fighter jets to the boeing headed toward DC?

He was in a safe location at the school. That neighborhood and the school had been searched by the Secret Service and were known safe zones at the moment. So why not let the man have a chance to make some calls before you move him?

Well, the WTC could of been searched.. doesnt mean they were going to find evidence of a boeing coming its way. The president was as much a target as anyone else, and ofr him to remain at the shcool was reckless, for the lives of the innocents around him. And there's a GREAT video out of multiple segmants showing second by second what was happenin. Bush started drafting his speech immediately after he heard, so much so the factors he drafted WERE used. He concetrated on his PUBLIC statement before even considering a defense.
The footage of bush in the classroom is historic..
he knew the plane had hit before he went in, and still TOLD the teacher to continue with the read and tell.
After the second plane, he sat there... obviously under attack he did nothing.
Obviously the president had something else as priority, other than defense.

Nope, never proven. Based on a statement made by someone who wasnt even there.

Well, were made to believe statements from people NEAR the pentagon are proof of a plane. But we are able to pick and choose who's statements to consider on other matters? The pyroclastic flow of the buildings is more telling.. but i spose the millions who wittnessed these too arent proven?

Nope, they didnt fall into their own footprints from random fires. They fell over a relatively large area after suffering massive fires and damage.

The towers fell DOWN, the rubble spread out.
They fell directly DOWN they didnt fall over a large space.
the rubble SPREAD over a large amount of space but the initial collapse went straight down.

Why have the security cameras from the Sheraton Hotel and the Citgo gas station been removed?

Im pretty sure you know he's refering to the footage.. but nice attempt

The Bin Laden family was gathered in one place and the FBI was allowed to interview each member they felt the need to talk to....and they left the US AFTER airline flights resumed.

So your happy we let them go? you believe it was the proper thing to do ?
We're still yet to CAPTURE binladen, but talking to his immediately family ONCE is good enough investigative work.

Because we havent captured him yet

So we've got the technology to send man to the moon, spy on people from space, invade and occupy another country but we get thawrted by a man, on horseback, in the bush, while surrounded by our best special forces?
How is it he can make a tape, hand it to a colleague, have them personally deliver it to a news station and we cant setup traps to follow these delivery men?

Because they were both part of the Carlyle Group at the time. Of course, if George Bush was meeting with the brother in New York.....why was he stranded in CLEVELAND that day?

Better yet, why does our president, have immediate family ties with the fmaily of the people who committed this crime?
How much money does the bush family make of this war?







[edit on 14-9-2006 by Agit8dChop]

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
There's a thread or two on the board that include numerous photos of the interior of the Pentagon showing huge airplane parts that are unlikely to have been deposted there unless an aircraft actually struck the building.

One reader surmised that perhaps a missle struck the Pentagon right in the middle of the aircraft parts storage locker. I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

As to your other arguments, I just don't know.

[edit on 2006/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]

please I would love to see the thread, that has photos of large boeing airliner parts amongst the rubble inside the pentagon.

so being you ' just dont know ' isnt it safe to assume then that something obviously isnt quite right?

Because if indeed a plane hit the pentagon.. there would be reasonable answers as to WHY it has turned out this way.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Here' the thread. You can draw your own conclusions.

Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

Originally posted by shanti23
All very good points Astygia, but. . ...... ....

I cannot explain how they have done it or why there has been no leak, but there is sufficient evidence to call for an independant investigation into the events of that day and I am not alone in thinking that.

The official conspiracy theory does not fully explain what happened that day and this is why we are still wondering what really happened five years later; not because we wear tin-foil hats, but because there is a lot of evidence that tells a different story than the one we have been told to believe.

I never said the official story adds up just fine for me, let's not derail the thread. Just stating why I'm still on the fence regarding the more extreme CTs, and again that I AGREE that all the evidence should be presented.

As to getting a new investigation, there are some things that could be looked into, but any material evidence is long gone. The only few things that could be released and possible clear up some CTs are mostly video footage, like the alleged 80+ films of Pentagon footage (I think 80+, is that right?).

The only thing an investigation will turn up at this point is placing people at certain places during certain times...which might have interesting results.

Wouldn't the interior design and floor layout be a national security issue? Should we paint a detailed map of the absolute best locations in the pentagon to hit with missles? Unfortunately, the goverment will find it very hard to give us the nation sensitive info, because for the most part everyone goes through media getting info. If we lived in the 50's they most likely would have let all the info out, but now in the information age that could spell future risks. I know, lets give out detailed info, so people can use it to destroy other large buildings. WE might not use it to blow up fellow citizens, but others may.

Also, info is witheld from public domain in may cases in our own court systems, why would you think it would be any different now?

because in a court system, the only people invovled who know the details are the parties on trial.

The USA publically put sept11 on the world arena, simply as a case to go into iraq.
everyone knows what supposidly happened at pentagon.
We were led to believe it, to get into iraq.

and now when it looks like our government is lying to us they argue to hide the evidence for national security reasons?

There right in part.

They know if the footage is released, it will severly damage the national interest.
This government will be held responsible, and in bush's eyes thats a national disaster.

The public demand proof, of the information we have been force fed to beleive.
Yet they are refusing to show us.

Someones not telling us the truth.

"They know if the footage is released, it will severly damage the national interest.
This government will be held responsible, and in bush's eyes thats a national disaster."


Nobody has any evidence of this, you nor I. It is most likely that our goverment dropped the ball, and planes were used to destroy some pretty big important(and some defended supposedly) buildings. There are huge amounts of information the goverment does not divulge to us, regular citizens. This may be one of those situations. Loose lips sink ships.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
National security can't be compromised to appease the public and even if every bit of evidence was released, there would still be those who would ...

HOw exactly would releasing photos of the damage to the face of WTC 7 compromise National Security?
The Citgo Film?
ANY photos of WTC 1 and 2?

This is a COP OUT and not a reason to hide 99% of the evidence I have referred to.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Wouldn't the interior design and floor layout be a national security issue?

ODdly enough and in dirct contradiction to your point, one of the FEW things they have released is detailed diagrams of the support structures/design of the Pentagon... Think about your argument for a moment and reflect.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Loose lips sink ships.

Yeah, showing a video of a plane or photos of the WTC (now GONE) aids enemies how?

I think a good question at this phase is "what exactly can we do to facilitate the release of this information?" Pardon my ignorance but I sometimes feel helpless (probably as a result of said ignorance) when it comes to the workings of government and the people that it serves.

So I ask humbly, what can I do? I raise the questions of 9-11 as often as possible and people look at me as if I were crazy. Some take me seriously and at least see the logic of questioning the official story but most just glaze over and shrug it off. Would a nationwide petition do any good? Should we consider this and pull together an effort on that scale? I'll sign up as a signature collector. Has this been done already?

All in all, this must be a grass roots effort because we have been abandoned at all levels of government in this matter (ala the Warren Commission).

Grass roots!

Ummm... There are still crimnal investigations, and until everyone involved has been tried all of the evidence has to be treated as such. Criminal evidence.

Originally posted by hogtie
Ummm... There are still crimnal investigations, and until everyone involved has been tried all of the evidence has to be treated as such. Criminal evidence.

Nice apologist line... So, until we catch EVERY terorist in "al-qaeda" the evidence stays supressed? NICE WORK! You just came up with an excuse to PERMANENTLY supress the evidence.

Please outline for me the "criminal investigations" that are ACTIVE FIVE YEARS LATER.

How does releasing photos of building damage or planes crashing compromise a criminal investigation?

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Slap Nuts


Please outline for me the "criminal investigations" that are ACTIVE FIVE YEARS LATER.

How does releasing photos of building damage or planes crashing compromise a criminal investigation?

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Slap Nuts]

And why would I waste my breath doing that when I've already been called an apologist. Nothing is ever good enough, is it?

Originally posted by hogtie
And why would I waste my breath doing that when I've already been called an apologist. Nothing is ever good enough, is it?

SOLID ANSWER!

Way to support your stance.

I have a three Y/O daughter that says "I know but I'm not telling"... this reminds me of her... I love her.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
How does releasing photos of building damage or planes crashing compromise a criminal investigation?

You don't know a lot about criminal investigations, do you?

At any rate, even if all the evidence was released, there still would be those who wouldn't be satisfied.

[edit on 2006/9/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You don't know a lot about criminal investigations, do you?

Way to answer a question with a question... If you know SO MUCH, tell me how releasing the photos of the "Gash" in WTC 7 could compromise a criminal investigation... just as an example.

I know enough to know you do not ship off 99% of the steel evidence from WTC 1 and 2.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
At any rate, even if all the evidence was released, there still would be those who wouldn't be satisfied.

Try me. This excuse sucks... "we are not going to release data we are REQUIRED BY LAW to release under the freedom of information act because you will debate it and possibly disagree with it".



the excuses and apologists just get funnier and funnier as this thread rolls along.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Slap Nuts]