Lloyd The Taxicab Driver: The Mystery of the Undamaged Hood.

I haven't been here in a while so I figured I'd give ATS something to chew on for the 5 year anniversary.

Perhaps some members may remember this thread about Lloyd (read Lloyd's original account here):

9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

I can tell you that since that thread was created by the administrators at ATS, a significant amount of new information has been obtained. But the main point is that whether or not the cab was moved is quite irrelevant when demonstrating the impossibility of Lloyd's account in general.

For those that don't know; Lloyd's account is utterly critical to the official story of a 757 hitting the pentagon.

Lightpole number 1 allegedly went through his windshield.

Here is a picture of his taxi on 9/11 next to the lightpole:



Now the real question is how possible is it that a light pole of this size get's knocked down by a 757 going over 500 mph and comes crashing through the windshield but doesn't even scratch the hood?



Russell Pickering is the owner of www.pentagonresearch.com...

He is a premier pentagon researcher and currently supports the 757 impact hypothesis but believes it was remote guided as opposed to piloted by Hani Hanjour.

He had been debating Merc about Lloyd for weeks.

Russell had done a phone interview with Lloyd and had surmised that it was merely the top arm piece of the pole that had gone through his windshield which is why the hood remained undamaged. This is the piece Russell was talking about:



That would certainly make sense except that Lloyd is quite old and a bit senile so there were still questions about what piece he was talking about in the phone interview.





So Dylan Avery invited Russell Pickering and Merc (along with myself) to Washington DC on a little field research trip for Loose Change Final Cut.

We had interviews with many eyewitnesses and planned on surveying the topography of the area and many other things.

And since Russell already had Lloyd's phone number......we lined up an interview with him as well to clarify once and for all which piece of the pole really went through the windshield.

But first we paid a trip to the VDOT (virginia department of transportation) to inspect the poles.

They informed us that the orginal poles from 9/11 were unceremoniously sent out as scrap with their regular 60 day salvage pick up.

Here are pics of the VDOT cleaning up the poles almost 3 weeks later on 9/29.

(Why didn't the fbi collect these key pieces of evidence?)

So they were gracious enough at the VDOT to show us the same type of pole that allegedly hit Lloyd's taxi cab for us to inspect.



I lifted the base end up and I had to squat lift to do it. The pole is 250 lbs and naturally the base is the heaviest part. Russell and Merc both agreed that it was physically impossible for the long piece of the pole to be what pierced Lloyd's windshield.

So after inspecting the poles at the VDOT Lloyd agreed to have us over to his house for an interview.

He invited us in and introduced us to his wife.

First we opened up a laptop and showed Lloyd multiple pictures from 9/11 and had him identify which piece of the pole went through his windshield.

Time after time he pointed to the large piece that all of us knew was impossible.

Russell even drew a diagram of the cab and had Lloyd illustrate the pole.

He specifically drew the base of the long piece of the pole sticking out of the windshield into mid-air.

Lloyd claims that after the pole hit his car that was going about 40 mph he locked his brakes (but there are no visible skid marks) and that a stranger in a van that "didn't say a word" helped him lift the pole up out of his car but that he fell to the ground when doing so because he didn't know the top end of the pole that was in his car was bent. So all of this supposedly happened without even scratching the hood.

Lloyd is old, frail, and a bit senile. I can't imagine him lifting the pole at all even with the help of the mysteriously silent stranger.

Lloyd agreed to do an interview on camera for us so we decided to do it outside in front of his new cab.

Dylan and I preparing to interview Lloyd:


Lloyd showing us the signed torn in half dollar bill that he saved from 9/11.


Lloyd lit up for the camera......he gave us his account as usual but this time he did something different......he suggested that it made no sense to him that he couldn't see any large pieces of the plane!

The story just get's weirder after that.

Lloyd's wife busted out with some personal photos of the cab taken just after they got it back from impound the next day.

Look how pristine the hood is:



In Lloyd's account he has the sharp top part of the severed poll knocking the passenger seat down to allow it to go all the way to the back seat. However this personal photo of the interior shows the passenger seat unripped or pierced!



Seems odd when you consider the enourmous kinetic energy the poll would have absorbed after being hit by a 757.

But look closely at the pic.

Look what book Lloyd was reading on 9/11!

None other than David Icke's new book at the time about the Lizard shapeshifting NWO. Released in April of 2001!



We asked Lloyd if he reads David Icke and his response was simply "I read a little bit of everything".

Quite a strange coinicidence and rather odd coming from an uneducated cabdriver in his 70's.

So what exactly was new info here?

He states a pole fell in his car and you interview him, and then still feel he is lying or senile? I'm not sure I get the issue here. It could have been a freak accident or maybe not. It simply proves nothing.

The book part was a nice touch with the statement:

We asked Lloyd if he reads David Icke and his response was simply "I read a little bit of everything".

Quite a strange coinicidence and rather odd coming from an uneducated cabdriver in his 70's.

Why not add you're amazed the guy could even read. I know some people that never finished high school that can read just fine. That even includes the BIG words. Amazing but true.

Anyway, interesting post that only seems to lack ummm...anything of substance.

Nice piece of work! WOTs!

I do not believe a 757 can hit a light pole and survive.

Light pole severs flight 255 (DC-9) wing at take off speed.

www.lasvegassun.com...

...It clipped a light pole in the National Car Rental parking lot, 2,760 feet past the runway, shearing off 18 feet of the left wing, then brushed the roof of the Avis Rent A Car building. The engines stalled.

This was flight 255 out of Detroit in the 80's. It was only at takeoff speeds when it hit a SINGLE pole and sheared off the wing.

I only have a highschool diploma. yet i read quite a bit. Just because someone does not have a college degree does not mean they cant or do not like to read.

I dont find anything odd here, except attempts to create something odd from nothing.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I only have a highschool diploma. yet i read quite a bit. Just because someone does not have a college degree does not mean they cant or do not like to read.

I dont find anything odd here, except attempts to create something odd from nothing.

I think he was pointing out the odd coincidence of WHAT book he was reading at the time... not that the man cannot read.

The taxi drivers story and pictures are odd to say the least... add to that a NWO book was on his passenger seat...

I do not think he was taking a shot at the guybut he should chang the word "uneducated" as it sounds demeaning.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by Slap Nuts]

The new information is the definitive confirmation of what piece of the pole allegedly went through his windshield without damaging the hood of the car.

As well as additional personal photos of the undamaged hood.

The David Icke Book is simply curious beyond belief.

I spoke with Lloyd in person.

When I say uneducated I simply mean that he is a simple cab driver and obviously not part of the typical David Icke demographic.

It is simply extremely coincidental, quite strange, and downright spooky but the real proof that there is something fishy going on with his account is the hood of the cab that miraculously eluded the long and heavy light pole that was hit by a 757 and smashed through his windshield.

Lloyd's account is physically impossible yet this is the MOST CRITICAL eyewitness in regards to the physical damage from the 757.

This is extremely compelling evidence to the suggetion that the physical damage was staged.

It's kind of funny how you debunko guys run right to the David Icke book while ignoring the actual point in the title of the thread.

This is the first time Ive heard of this Lloyd guy. I certainly never thought it critical to proving the existance of the 757.

That for me was proved by eyewitness accounts, rescuer accounts, the toppled light poles, and wreckage found in the Pentagon.

I don't think it odd that Llyod would be reading a David icke book though. I was never under the impression David Icke had a demographic specific to his theories.

Though I can now see why others find it odd. But I doubt its a part of the greater conspiracy involving 9/11.

No, Im still sticking with the theory that Flight 77 or another 757 was hijacked via remote control system, or hijacked by persons unknown, the taken over via remote control.

Or it was flown by a highly skilled military super pilot. But definitely not Hanjor.

I'm curiuous...who's profiting off the dvd, t-shirts, and other items the Loose Change is selling?

So Dylan Avery invited Russell Pickering and Merc (along with myself) to Washington DC on a little field research trip for Loose Change Final Cut.

We all know about people profiting from conspiracies. I would just like to know who's making the money on this one.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
This is the first time Ive heard of this Lloyd guy. I certainly never thought it critical to proving the existance of the 757.

That for me was proved by eyewitness accounts, rescuer accounts, the toppled light poles, and wreckage found in the Pentagon.

I don't think it odd that Llyod would be reading a David icke book though. I was never under the impression David Icke had a demographic specific to his theories.

Though I can now see why others find it odd. But I doubt its a part of the greater conspiracy involving 9/11.

No, Im still sticking with the theory that Flight 77 or another 757 was hijacked via remote control system, or hijacked by persons unknown, the taken over via remote control.

Or it was flown by a highly skilled military super pilot. But definitely not Hanjor.

Lloyd is the only human account directly linked to the light poles.

The light poles are the only damage that would pretty much HAVE to be the result of a 757 if they weren't staged.

The David Icke book is merely a curiosity.

The physical impossibility of his account is compelling evidence that the downed light poles were staged.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I'm curiuous...who's profiting off the dvd, t-shirts, and other items the Loose Change is selling?

So Dylan Avery invited Russell Pickering and Merc (along with myself) to Washington DC on a little field research trip for Loose Change Final Cut.

We all know about people profiting from conspiracies. I would just like to know who's making the money on this one.

Louder Than Words Productions.

Jack,

I don't see how you can say this guy's story is critical to anything other than him and his taxi. I'm serious...it really can't be held as critical to the 757 story. But we've had similar debates on this whole taxi story issue before.

BUT - with that disagreement stated, I'd like to commend you on you and your friends' field work and thank you for sharing your findings. Way to put your time where your beliefs are.

Thanks Valhall.

As I stated his account is critical because the light poles are critical evidence.

If his account is staged then 9/11 = inside job.

hey all, Well i dont see what this lightpole does for any real conspiracies or proof I work for idot and ive seen some real strange accidents with lightpoles and other objects and i still cant understand it so to me it does nothing for your story

Originally posted by Jack Tripper

Lloyd showing us the signed torn in half dollar bill that he saved from 9/11.

What's this about?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

What's this about?

Read Lloyd's original account here:

9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

Originally posted by Jack Tripper

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

What's this about?

Read Lloyd's original account here:

9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. As they were moving the pole, they heard a big boom and turned to see an explosion. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Gee, I guess lloyd is a fast mover. After all he was able to recover from the shock of having his windshield shatter in his face, slam on his breaks (He was driving on the highway I assume), get out of his car and begin to move the pole off of his car all before he heard the jet hit the building.



That half of his dollar bill must be a large monetary reward waiting for him in a numbered swiss bank account. And all he has to do is keep his mouth shut for a few years and stick to the official story.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by Jack Tripper

Lloyd is the only human account directly linked to the light poles.

Not necessarily. Hundreds of unrelated witnesses on the ground near the area reported the plane clipping the lightposts.

The light poles are the only damage that would pretty much HAVE to be the result of a 757 if they weren't staged.

No they wouldnt. There was the generator damage and the airplane wreckage at the pentagon.

The David Icke book is merely a curiosity.

I suppose it could be seen as that.

The physical impossibility of his account is compelling evidence that the downed light poles were staged.

Not by a long shot. From one of your own links:

At the speed of 345 mph which was recorded by the recovered AA77 flight data recorder, the leading edge of the wing could slice through the approximately 5 inch diameter pole (at that height) with .188 of an inch thick aluminum walls like butter. This would cause the top half of the pole to pop up over the wing and essentially fall straight back down, which is effectively what we see with all the poles in the photos. The bottom half of the pole would have been driven forward with little resistance. If a VW Rabbit can break one at 20 mph 23 inches off the ground then it takes significantly less force with the leverage effect of being hit higher up. This may be why we have minimal wing debris on the ground.

This limited damage factor is why the FAA requires these type of poles in the "safety zones" around airports and helipads. They recognize that this type of pole minimizes damage to aircraft, "FAA regulation requires any structure located within 250 feet of runway centerline has to be frangible, which means the structure needs to break away when hit by an aircraft to minimize damages to the aircraft and its pilot." (Source)

One of the most commonly reported features in the eyewitness reports was the aircraft impacting light poles. In conjunction with the reported striking of the poles many eyewitnesses mentioned a change in the sound of the engines. Some described it as the engines being "revved up" or the aircraft going to "full-throttle".

The minimum wingspan required to create the pole damage was approximately 100 feet. The maximum wingspan before you would have had additional poles impacted is approximately 140 feet. The wingspan of a 757-200 is 124 feet 10 inches. This accounts for the minimum of 100 feet and allows for a 16 foot tolerance which is exactly what we see in the diagrams.

The first pole impact occurred at approximately 1000 feet prior to the Pentagon wall. 345 mph is 506 per second. That means it would have been roughly 2 seconds with the aircraft being driven by momentum between the first pole and the wall. There would not have been the force or the time for the pole damage to cause a deviation in the flight-path.

The following video exemplifies evidence for an aircraft hitting the Pentagon including the poles. I spoke with the creator of this and clarified that they built their model and let what happened happen. The right engine ingesting the lamp head on pole number 3 was not programmed into their scenario, it was predicted by the model. This would explain the change in the engine sound reported by witnesses and the anomalous vapor trail at ground level seen in the DoD videos.

www.pentagonresearch.com...

Sorry, but the probability of them staging a bunch of falling lightpoles in broad daylight in front of thousands of witnesses is even more unlikely.

I'm don't see how this man's story makes any difference in what hit the pentagon, though I'll admit I don't think it's likely the pole itself went through the window.

But my hat's off to you for actually getting out there and investigating; don't see much of that backing up theories these days.