Why any Aliens must be hostile

First of all I'd like to clarify by posting this thread I am not saying Aliens exist in fact the oppisite is true the Fermi Paradox proves there are no advanced Aliens visiting Earth.

The Fermi Paradox

Enrico Fermi thought that if intelligent alien civilizations existed, they would inevitably colonize the galaxy. Travelling slower than the speed of light, they would still colonize the galaxy in a relatively short time. And if our galaxy was colonized, we would know all about it. Fermi concluded that intelligent aliens do not exist.

So nobody panic just yet the Demonic creatures can't be advanced enough even if by some miracle they existed.

But anyway back to my points.

1: If an Alien race advanced enough to become intelligent it is quite safe to assume they are a Predatory species (after all how much brainpower is needed to sneak up on a carrot?).
I think the most likely scenario for a dominating species has to be a top of the food chain predator almost certainly a pack hunter to evolve the needed inteligence.

2: What motives would they have to actually cross the vastness of lightyears to come here to a less advanced race well given that nothing on earth is special, apart from maybe the meat (us).
Best case scenario is they only want some resource we have but to cross so much space using so much energy to get here It's unlikely they just want to observe or say Hi

3: Look at our own technological History the vast majority of our technology only came about because we wanted to kill each other. Without our aggression we might still be in caves.
It seem's reasonable that any technological species would by default be warlike.

4: Again our own History, just read about anytime at all a more advanced civilization discovered a less advanced one, slavery, Genocide, Exploitation not to mention the Virus epidemics.

That's all I have for now but should we should be worried about all the radio signals we are sending mindlessly into space.

The odd's are we will never encounter any race as advanced as ourselves but maybe many should reconsider their wishfull thinking about wanting Aliens here.

All Aliens if they exist and our more advanced than us should be treated as Hostile.

So nobody panic just yet the Demonic creatures can't be advanced enough even if by some miracle they existed.

You know normally I tend to give people second, third and h*l even fourth chances, but that right there, makes me a bit weary to goive your threads any chance, however, in the spirit of goo showmanship...

1: If an Alien race advanced enough to become intelligent it is quite safe to assume they are a Predatory species (after all how much brainpower is needed to sneak up on a carrot?).
I think the most likely scenario for a dominating species has to be a top of the food chain predator almost certainly a pack hunter to evolve the needed inteligence.

Err, I was'nt aware we were a predatary species anymore,
since by your logic anything that evolves sentience is a predator.

2: What motives would they have to actually cross the vastness of lightyears to come here to a less advanced race well given that nothing on earth is special, apart from maybe the meat (us).
Best case scenario is they only want some resource we have but to cross so much space using so much energy to get here It's unlikely they just want to observe or say Hi

The same reason we ould, to learn, to explore.
Who's to say nothing here is special, all life in the universe is special
to one extent or another.
Considering you, and indeed no one here actually knows what
resources the technology aliens may use would actually need,
I don't think that's a great statement to make.

3: Look at our own technological History the vast majority of our technology only came about because we wanted to kill each other. Without our aggression we might still be in caves.
It seem's reasonable that any technological species would by default be warlike.

Your adding human bias there, though you admit it, so it's not so bad.
Why should aliens have to have evolved to be like us when it comes to
war and technological advancement, maybe they advance technologically
because they are natural scientists.

Though any suffuciently advanced race may have had a similiar period,
I'll give you that much.

Again our own History, just read about anytime at all a more advanced civilization discovered a less advanced one, slavery, Genocide, Exploitation not to mention the Virus epidemics.

Again, your humanising aliens, which by definitiona re not aliens,
and besides that, we've for the most part moved on from such
dispicable acts as a species.



You know, you act very xenophobic, no offense or anything,
just an observation on my part.

Who's to say that the only reason they would explore the galaxy is to look for meat? I'm pretty sure that the Voyager probes wearn't sent out to look for some nice rump or whatever. I think that if we humans ever go out of our solar system, it would be to discover and explore, not to look for food.

But I do tell you, that last sentence sent chills up my spine./

Jesus Shamanator, what the hell man? How many threads are you going to make where you have to spout your misguided beliefs as undeniable fact? This is getting ridiculous.

Any alien species visiting Earth must NOT be hostile. As stated in previous threads started by you where you said "everyone who sees ufos are drunk or on drugs", the tech to cross the galaxy would be more than we could possibly imagine. Compared to ANY intersteller capable species, we might as well still be sitting around in cavestryingto decide if we can eat the rocks.

If an Alien species that was capable of traveling to Earth was hostile, I'm positive all they would have to do to get rid of us is press a button.


Shamanator, due to your idiotic arguments and your ability to "find" facts about top secret gov programs that no-one else can,I am now convinced that you are a gov disinfo agent or a religious fanatic, and I'm putting you on ignore.

You come to an alien and post idiotic arguments on why aliens arent real.
You go to F-22 threads and make up "facts" about the engine falling out.
Every single one of your posts is designed to get a negative reaction out of the people posting in that forum.
You are a Troll and ATS will be a better place if I can't see your threads or replies.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by Tiloke]

Yes it is true the only advanced race to base opinions on is ourselves nothing else on earth has even came close and I do pity any less advanced races we might come across one day. There no doubt in my mind that if we found a primitive race and they had something we needed one way or another we would likely take it by any means necessary.

I just find it likely all inteligence will have got to that stage the same ways I believe intelligence may be a very rare thing where as maybe life itself in some forms may be fairly common by comparison.

I think humans started out as prey but became predators I think on other world's it's more likely a predator would stay the dominant animal.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by Shamanator]

Originally posted by Shamanator
First of all I'd like to clarify by posting this thread I am not saying Aliens exist in fact the oppisite is true the Fermi Paradox proves there are no advanced Aliens visiting Earth.

The Fermi Paradox

Enrico Fermi thought that if intelligent alien civilizations existed, they would inevitably colonize the galaxy. Travelling slower than the speed of light, they would still colonize the galaxy in a relatively short time. And if our galaxy was colonized, we would know all about it. Fermi concluded that intelligent aliens do not exist.

So nobody panic just yet the Demonic creatures can't be advanced enough even if by some miracle they existed.

For a start, the Fermi Paradox proves absolutely nothing. Working from its operating premise it's saying that evidence of absence means proof of non existence. That is a very faulty position to come from and Fermi himself would've known that full well. Many a subatomic particle was summised to exist before it was every found, because the laws of physics demanded they exist in order to explain observations made in experiments. He has no idea of what the motivations of any alien lifeform might be. How are you to tell what the artifacts of colonisation are, and how to observe them?? You might be looking at the evidence straight in your face and not even recognise it for what it is. And why would any alien race inevitably colonise the galaxy??. Fermi is assuming their motivations are the same as ours. Oh dear, anthropomorphising. Just as "bad" as saying they look humanoid. More so, because at least the physical shape can be explained in terms of evolutionary processes. What's in their minds is an entirely different matter. All the Fermi Paradox is, nothing more than a wild guess based on very flimsy premises which are not even bourne out by the evidence. Because with the technology presently used to try and detect them, their existence cannot be ruled out.

As for your assumptions listed in your post..... they're even more speculative than Fermi's. You have no idea as to what the evolutionary path any alien species has taken, or to their motivations as to what type of thought processes they may have. The only thing that can be said is that it's most likely that their motivations, thoughts, food preferences and whatever else will more than likely be just as diverse as any human society's......and maybe even more so. Do you travel all the way to Nepal or India, or wherever else on the globe, just to exploit that places resources or to eat the people there?? I'd hazard a guess to say that you don't. So far as our technology goes, the vast majority of it wasn't invented to expidite the killing of others. Only the most obvious and memorable ones were, because we have a habit of focusing on those things which do us harm. Plus the reasons as to why "more advanced" societies destroyed "less advanced" ones is a far more complicated matter than you have made out, although the reasons you've stated are some that have featured in the interactions.

I think you really need to do a bit more thinking and research into quite a few areas of science and philosophy before you go making comments about the attributes and motivations of any alien societies.


[edit on 11-9-2006 by GhostITM]

[edit on 11-9-2006 by GhostITM]

I must say Shamanator, your attitude towards the subject does seem
to be greatly improving.

And, I think I should add, just so you don't class me in the wrong
category.
I believe that alien life exists, and that sentient life exists, and perhaps
one or two species may have visited us before, and may be doing so still.
However, I don't believe there are reptillians with Grey slaves who want to
take over Earth who are at War with another race, who to be honest,
look like Hitlers idea of a master race.


Oh, and Tiloke, Shamanator can create any thread he likes,
as long as he follows the T&C, and he is expressing his views.

Just as those individuals who believe that theres a whole big galactic UN
out there ready to imbrace us spiritually, and the various other things
like that.

[edit on 9/11/2006 by iori_komei]

Originally posted by GhostITM
For a start, the Fermi Paradox proves absolutely nothing. Working from its operating premise it's saying that evidence of absence means proof of non existence.

And yet all UFO claims have an absence of evidence and you believe them. Seems slightly hypocritical to me.

My claims are based on evolution on earth and nothing else I freely admit if that is speculative there not much I can say in defense as of now there is only 1 planet with life on it to judge from.

The simple conclusion I draw is all species compete for resources one way or another even plants do it under the ground and all sucessful species are by their very nature selfish.





[edit on 11-9-2006 by Shamanator]
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Mod edit - fixed quote

[edit on 11-9-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by Shamanator
My claims are based on evolution on earth and nothing else I freely admit if that is speculative there not much I can say in defense as of now there is only 1 planet with life on it to judge from.

The simple conclusion I draw is all species compete for resources one way or another even plants do it under the ground and all sucessful species are by their very nature selfish.

Wow, as odd as it may seem coming from me, I actually agree with
that statement in its entirety.

However, to be the Devils Advocate so to speak, a sufficiently
advanced sentiet species may se the error of its ways.
Much as we are slowly starting to oursleves.

if they were hostile you'd be dead.

i'll tell you one thing though they are extreme and that can be construed as hostility but it aint really.

actually I never knew what goodness and love was till I met the aliens. They make humans look like rabid pig dogs on heat believe me. Humans are the hostile ones. Aliens act hostile to make us afraid of them. We would wipe them out and eat them as food if we found a way.

Originally posted by Shamanator

Originally posted by GhostITM
For a start, the Fermi Paradox proves absolutely nothing. Working from its operating premise it's saying that evidence of absence means proof of non existence.

And yet all UFO claims have an absence of evidence and you believe them. Seems slightly hypocritical to me.

My claims are based on evolution on earth and nothing else I freely admit if that is speculative there not much I can say in defense as of now there is only 1 planet with life on it to judge from.

The simple conclusion I draw is all species compete for resources one way or another even plants do it under the ground and all sucessful species are by their very nature selfish.

Whenever did I say that I believed them?? Nowhere. All I said was that Fermi's Paradox proves absolutely nothing. It wouldn't stand upto testing and therefore cannot be claimed to be anything except wild speculation. As for there being an evidence of absence of evidence for UFO's, I think you need to go and have a good look at all the millions of sightings and such that have been made over the years. Science itself can be just as anecdotal and subjective to interpretation as anything to do with UFO's. I know this from experience. There's nothinh hypocritical in what i have said. On the contrary, I've been trying to get people here to think a little bit more openly and critically...... on both sides of the equation. I'm just as sceptical of the claims of many writing in to this forum as some of you, however I don't just dismiss out of hand that there is some kernal of truth in many of the observations of alien entities and I see no reason to just ignore people because they've seen them. More people have seen them than just your average wacko or fantasy prone personality. Most that have seen them don't like reporting what they've seen for the simple reason that they fear the ridicule that happens. But it inevitably does come out because many find coming out easier to handle than keeping it secret. Others, who are trained observers or professionals of some sort report things as they see them. Most don't elaborate on what they see, they just report the facts as they present themselves.

The ones that do openly seek recognition, I'd say many of them are fantasy prone and maybe delusion in some cases. They look for recognition of what they believe they went through, when there are possibly more prosaic reasons as to why they have experienced what they have. I don't then ridicule them for believing what they do, I try to show them that they may not have been in the situation they think they were..... that there's other reasons for what seems to be a real event being something they've imagined, yet they've convined themselves that it's reality.

For the record...... I do believe in the existence of UFO's. Anything that you can't identify that flies is an UFO. Whether it be extraterrestrial or otherwise. I also believe in the existence of alien entities and their means of getting here, but not for the reasons outlined by many "contactees". There maybe kernals of truth in their statements but most of it is the product of fantasy prone pathologies.

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Mod Edit - fixed quote


[edit on 11-9-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by Shamanator
1: If an Alien race advanced enough to become intelligent it is quite safe to assume they are a Predatory species (after all how much brainpower is needed to sneak up on a carrot?).
I think the most likely scenario for a dominating species has to be a top of the food chain predator almost certainly a pack hunter to evolve the needed inteligence.
3: Look at our own technological History the vast majority of our technology only came about because we wanted to kill each other. Without our aggression we might still be in caves.
It seem's reasonable that any technological species would by default be warlike.
4: Again our own History, just read about anytime at all a more advanced civilization discovered a less advanced one, slavery, Genocide, Exploitation not to mention the Virus epidemics.

I dont agree with point two because of the same thing watch_the_rocks said. But, those three points of yours I quoted show very logical reasoning imo. On the other hand, like iori_komei said, any race that advanced may have become peacefull over time. Our history isnt far along enough yet to make an educated comparison like you did with the other assumptions. Maybe by the time we really get a handle on space travel we will have stopped warring. Maybe thats what it takes to become that advanced. Anyways, good post.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
if they were hostile you'd be dead.

i'll tell you one thing though they are extreme and that can be construed as hostility but it aint really.

I agree, we can't understand what a more advanced species is doing just like the chimp in the zoo doesn't understand why people get in cars and drive places.

Half of the population actually thinks that some big invisible man in the sky magically created the earth and everything else one one day on a whim.....
We are simply not advanced enough to understand.

You dont make sense if you dont believe in aliens then why would you post a thread
aliens must be hostile
no one in this world will no how aliens think or feel thats why they are alien

Originally posted by iori_komei


Oh, and Tiloke, Shamanator can create any thread he likes,
as long as he follows the T&C, and he is expressing his views.

Just as those individuals who believe that theres a whole big galactic UN
out there ready to imbrace us spiritually, and the various other things
like that.

[edit on 9/11/2006 by iori_komei]

Did I tell him to stop? I simply said that I'm ignoring his posts now. If you read all of his posts you'll see that he says things that are either completely unfounded, or bold faced lies that are designed to get a negative response.
And I don't care what some little boy has to say about god or aliens, especially after he called me a alcoholic drug addict.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by CYRAX
You dont make sense if you dont believe in aliens then why would you post a thread
aliens must be hostile

Because a lot of people do believe in aliens and are looking through rose tinted glasses wanting them to come here. My views have changed slightly I still don't believe Aliens are visiting here but the size of the universe mean's I cant rule out intelligent life somewhere even if I still believe it is to far for it to get here.

Do I Believe in life elsewhere yes I can't rule it out although I expect it mostly to be not much more than simple animals in the vast majority of cases. Bear in mind the Dinosaurs walked earth for millions of years and didn't evolve inteligence. We could be just a case of extreme luck and maybe even the most advanced species in our Galaxy for now.

Do I believe in life visiting here now or in the past in fancy spaceships and the aliens all being humanoid like TV shows I am afraid not. The truth as I see it is that if Aliens where here they would not fly about in flashy saucers with big flashing lights they would be more likely just build small probes that looked like earth insects or something else we wouldnt take a second glance at.

I think any Alien that took an interest in us and advanced enough to make it's way here would be a threat just like we would be a threat to a less advanced species.

What would motivate it to come here?

The energy it takes to cross stars is tremendous and I still believe it would have to travel below lightspeed so the journey would not be worthwhile for anything smaller than colonisation.

What we would do if we found a planet of small animals that tasted like chicken and perhaps had the same intelligence as a chicken I think they might just be in trouble. Whatever these creatures eat could have similar intelligence to us given the same evolution, though likely has no technology of it's own and is probably farmed now.

Originally posted by Shamanator


And yet all UFO claims have an absence of evidence and you believe them.

I gathered from your previous posts that you are a Christian? I rest my case.

Honestly Shamanator, I'm sick of seeing your half-baked topics on this board. I really do think your just after the ATS points, I find myself hating myself for even repling to this topic but here goes:

You say that Aliens would have no other reason for visiting Earth other than colonisation/rescourses.
Humans have "wasted" alot of resourses on exploration, be it space or terrestrial exploration. The idea that someone would want to learn more isn't that rediculous.

The truth as I see it is that if Aliens where here they would not fly about in flashy saucers with big flashing lights they would be more likely just build small probes that looked like earth insects or something else we wouldnt take a second glance at.

Why? Humans visited the moon in person, and we only send probes to other planets because we can't survive the conditions or we don't have the means to go there in person.

I think any Alien that took an interest in us and advanced enough to make it's way here would be a threat just like we would be a threat to a less advanced species.

In what way would we be a threat to a less advanced civilisation? I really don't think we would try to annihilate another civilisation, no matter how primitive, unless they were a threat to US. People don't try to irradicate gurillas because they are less intelligent than us, do they?

The energy it takes to cross stars is tremendous and I still believe it would have to travel below lightspeed so the journey would not be worthwhile for anything smaller than colonisation.

Why because it's a waste of energy? As iv'e said, living things waste alot of energy persueing thier curiosity.

Yours residingly, Larks

[edit on 9/11/2006 by Mad Larkin]

Assuming aliens are visiting this planet, there is no way of identifying their motives as there are just too many factors to put in...

1) Religion: No form of life is too intelligent to believe in a higher power, IMO. From my experience on this planet most religions seem to promote benvolence.

2) Options: Im sure that if aliens could reach this planet it would probably require little to no effort (i believe this because the only theoretical ways i can think of that allow humans to exceed the speed of light are wormholes/blackholes or anti-gravity both let you arrive at a destination instantaneosly) and in which case they could travel to any planet they wanted and im sure there are endless amounts of inhabitable planets in this universe not yet harbouring life.

3) We're prabably not like them: Why are we comparing ourselves to aliens it goes against all common sense, just think about it I'm too tired to explain.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by hobo_321]

99% of the ufo/alien community have never met an alien or seen a ufo. The folks who have met an alien become changed and are treated as crazies by the ufo community. Primarily the community is ruled by a few folks who are obsessed with the horrors of Nazism who think the world revolves around that. Basically they are the products of the 2nd world war, a kind of trauma that still runs through the collective consciousness.

Seriously though the aliens are beyond comprehension for most people because we're blind to many of the dimensions of this universe and all our concepts and ideas are products of our blind perceptions. So we have somewhat blind people raving on and on about the darkness they call reality, and anyone that thinks there is something more is called crazy.

These negative threads are the way to attract a lot of posts. They challenge people to deny ignorance and prove to themselves that they are open minded.

A lot of people believe we have rights that the aliens cannot walk all over. Then when aliens start invading their space they feel threatened and become hostile. They go almost insane fighting something they do not understand. So to them the aliens are a hostile force that has invaded their temple in some way. You try to tell these people that the aliens are the ranchers and we are the herd and they say you're wrong. They cannot accept that aliens have any rights to do the things they do.

So the aliens know that most people cannot handle the truth about their presence and so they stay out of the picture. They want people to feel separate from the aliens. But still millions of people do meet the aliens and react in various ways, often with hostility and fear.

So aliens are hostile in many peoples minds simply because they invade our space and treat us like the herd animals or cultivated organisms that we are.





]

[edit on 11-9-2006 by probedbygrays]

Originally posted by Mad Larkin

I gathered from your previous posts that you are a Christian? I rest my case.

Actually I'm not I rest my case i mentioned God once in one post and if i was a christian that still isnt an arguement

Honestly Shamanator, I'm sick of seeing your half-baked topics on this board. I really do think your just after the ATS points, I find myself hating myself for even repling to this topic but here goes:

Funny this is my second thread what did you do read my first one over and over?

Why? Humans visited the moon in person, and we only send probes to other planets because we can't survive the conditions or we don't have the means to go there in person.

The fact is if Aliens wanted to just study us they would do it the same way we study animals with hidden cameras so as not to disturb their behaviour.
It makes perfect sense.

In what way would we be a threat to a less advanced civilisation? I really don't think we would try to annihilate another civilisation, no matter how primitive, unless they were a threat to US. People don't try to irradicate gurillas because they are less intelligent than us, do they?

Gorillas where are they in our citys?
Oh dear there aren't any we killed off all animals that were a threat to us where we live. In fact the only reason any animal is safe right now is they are out of our way for now, and still if we think we can make some easy cash selling a gorilla skin coat you can be sure we will seek them out and kill them we have in the past.

Why because it's a waste of energy? As iv'e said, living things waste alot of energy persueing thier curiosity.

You just dont grasp just how big space is I can tell.
Aliens or not they cant break the laws of the Universe. Here is a clue to the energy needed.
It would take an energy mass the equivelient size of jupiter (e=mc2) to open a wormhole 100 metres in length.
Admittedly this isnt my calculation I looked it up on google. Of course that would depend on wormholes even existing theres no proof that they they do.

Originally posted by hobo_321
Assuming aliens are visiting this planet, there is no way of identifying their motives as there are just too many factors to put in...

Their motive will be the same as every other species selfish the very idea Aliens would come here to help a competing race is insane.
If they come here they will have agendas for their benifet not ours.

1) Religion: No form of life is too intelligent to believe in a higher power, IMO. From my experience on this planet most religions seem to promote benvolence.

Really plenty of humans dont believe in a higher power and I cant remember ever seeing a dog praying ?
Come to think of it I cant remember ever seeing an animal building a temple.
Religions Do not promote peace I can safely say that most wars in human history carried a religious agenda along with them.

2) Options: Im sure that if aliens could reach this planet it would probably require little to no effort (i believe this because the only theoretical ways i can think of that allow humans to exceed the speed of light are wormholes/blackholes or anti-gravity both let you arrive at a destination instantaneosly) and in which case they could travel to any planet they wanted and im sure there are endless amounts of inhabitable planets in this universe not yet harbouring life.

No effort I've already addressed the insane energy requirements for a wormhole to travel just 100 metres. If we are talking distances between stars you would need to convert several large stars I think we might just notice star's vanishing from the night sky.(This doesnt even adrress having to move one end to where you want it at below lightspeed).

As for blackholes again theres absolutely no evidence blackholes go anywhere at all in fact the matter that goes in can be observed leaving in the form of hawking radiation which suggests everything that goes in slowly decays back out.

3) We're prabably not like them: Why are we comparing ourselves to aliens it goes against all common sense, just think about it I'm too tired to explain.

The only advanced civilization that exists as far as we know is us ?
How exactly is that going against common sense to use us as a comparison in my mind it is the only sensible option available.


[edit on 11-9-2006 by Shamanator]