Reasons why I think there must be a God

It's proven that matter can think since we are all made of matter but we wouldn't be able to if we didn't have a complex and orderly brain to make us concious. If whatever began the universe didn't have a concience to think then how could it of made it so elegant and orderly like it is today? It couldn't of unless maybe it was programed to by something that has a thinking concience because living things without a concience (ie plants) can't create complex things because they don't know they exist since a concience is needed for that. Sure they seem to know how to stay alive because they do what is needed to like suck up water and moisture but it's not because they're thinking, they're only impulsed to do that. So it's as if they were programed to. Some would say it's because they evolved to work that way but evolution is really just an illusion and it's really the workings of God and the science just explains how it works. Actually this says how evolution and intellegent design or creation could both be true and that's what I believe.

Also isn't it logical that if the universe always existed that there had to be an infinite number of events that had to happen before us so we would not and never exist? It's not even possible for us humans to never exist conciously which is why I believe we were all a complete part of the God that created this universe before it's begining. So the answer is the universe didn't always exist. So something had to put it there and the things I said before in this post indicates it must of been a thinking concious being of some sort, As for the question, who created God? The answer is know one simply because he has always existed because he had to unless nothing would of existed initially and we all know that's just not possible since nothing cannot exist.

These are also all the reasons why I think that the belief that there is no God is a much crazier belief then that there is. Anyways I could say many more reasons why God must exist but I don't feel like it and don't think I need to. Well other than what I just said here's some other sites that proves God exists for me:

www.carmical.net...
www.leaderu.com...

[edit on 10-9-2006 by Elimaku]

Who created god then? Surely such an intelligent and complex beeing must have a creator.

According to your silly logic it is.

That question is the only one no one can answer, and its used heavily against any pro-God arguement to try to disprove it.

Human beings have to accept that we are not Gods, we are not equal to God, and as such we do not have the capability to comprehende anything beyond the physical realm we know, which has a set of laws in place to ensure its continuity (like gravity and the speed of light).

We cant describe the afterlife becase we just cant comprehende what it is like. We cant describe driving a porsche until we have sat in one. If you are forbidden from driving a porsche your entire life, would you ever be able to describe what its like? No, you would not. This is why we cannot explain how or why God exists, how they came to be, how the emptyness of the endless universe was created, and all those other mind boggling questions we do not have answers to.

The fact that there is stuff greater than us which we cannot explain through science or any other means proves to me that there is a God because if there werent, there wouldnt be anything left to reveal. Our superdooper science knowledge would be able to definitively explain EVERYTHING from the birth of the universe to anything else you could possibly think of. But alas, we are not the greatest, there are things that seem to be permanently unanswerable. Dont you think theres a reason for this?

You shouldn't try to strike me down by saying what I said is silly because it's not. I don't understand why you had to say that to me. Is it because me believing in God offends you in some way (I can't see how it can offend anyone) or you think that people who believe in God negatively effect society? Anyways like I already said, the concience being exists and existed before the universe just because it had to because it's the only possible way everything in the universe can be how it is today and how we are here on earth and don't ask me why since I already explained it above. Maybe I didn't explain it all well enough for everyone to comprehend though.

Jugg, it is ok to be ignorant, just don't be rude.


if you would like to understand the statement that Elimaku made, then i suggest taking a (Mod Edit Snip). you will then understand your connection to the almighty concience that is GOD. there is no jesus, there is no mohammed, there is no buddah, there is only god and we are all a piece of the infinite energy that has no beginning and no end.

trust me.
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Mod Edit - removed suggestion for drug use

2e.) Illegal Activity: Discussion of any illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.


[edit on 11-9-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by Elimaku
Is it because me believing in God offends you in some way

no, its because your logic IS silly.
According to your own logic, god must have had a creater too! And the creator of your god, must have had a creater and so on and so on.

You guys should read up on the string theory, evolution and the big inflation.
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Mod Edit - removed discussion of drug use

From the T&C's...

2e.) Illegal Activity: Discussion of any illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.



[edit on 11-9-2006 by masqua]

Interesting point, Elimaku. I do believe there is a God.

I do believe in evolution, but I don't believe that the first being on Earth had been a once celled organism.

Pertaining to your question on "Who created God," you would have to think outside of the terms of time. For instance, we define time in days, hours, minutes, years and so on. When we say 100 years, we are in fact saying that 100 revolutions of the Earth around the sun. To say the "begining of time" is to say when the Earth first started revolving around the sun, or you can argue that it began with the Big Bang. My point is that to those who believe in God, we view God as always existing, because he created "time," whether through creating an orbit for the stellar bodies, or through the big bang. To those who believe, God existed prior to any of these events occuring, so in essence, he existed before there was a 'universe' and 'time.'

Jugg, you're being incredibly rude. If you would like to discuss your views on the topic, do it without criticizing the topic creator's views.

Originally posted by Jugg

Originally posted by Elimaku
Is it because me believing in God offends you in some way

no, its because your logic IS silly.
According to your own logic, god must have had a creater too! And the creator of your god, must have had a creater and so on and so on.


You guys should read up on the string theory, evolution and the big inflation.

i've read extensively on string theory, evolution and big bang/inflation/crunch, relativity, quantam mechanics.

science is great, but all it does it interpret nature, it is NOT truth. coming from someone who used to be an athiest and believe there is an explaination for everything without God being apart of it, i have discovered that the biggest questions we have as humans are completely unanswerable.

there has to be a God for the simple fact that you and I and everyone that has ever existed are here right now. is it really possible for matter to become conscious? of course not...is it even possible for matter to exist?!?? it is the will of something vastly, and infinitely greater than you and I to be able to have this text converstation, for that matter to experience everything you and I have ever experienced.

as for you not experiencing the divine on what would be considered gateways to the divine (mushrooms), my guess is that either you did not take enough, or you are a very young soul who is not prepared to see the divine yet. it is a very scary thing, luckily only temporary, to realize that you are in fact eternal.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by psilogod]
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Mod Edit - fixed quote and removed discussion of drug use



[edit on 11-9-2006 by masqua]

Wow...quite the thread so far...how about everybody calm down and discuss this without the flaming retorts?

Back on topic everyone, please.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Jugg, you're being incredibly rude. If you would like to discuss your views on the topic, do it without criticizing the topic creator's views.

Dammit im not beeing rude, im saying the logic he uses here is SILLY! Which it is!

He says: Well, we exist, therefore there must be a god. Then, according to his own logic, God exists, therefore there must exist another god (Who created the other god), and then this continues to infinity.

I have respect for every religion and every religous man, but this ISENT evidence or proof for a god.

Originally posted by psilogod
i've read extensively on string theory, evolution and big bang/inflation/crunch, relativity, quantam mechanics.

science is great, but all it does it interpret nature, it is NOT truth. coming from someone who used to be an athiest and believe there is an explaination for everything without God being apart of it, i have discovered that the biggest questions we have as humans are completely unanswerable.

there has to be a God for the simple fact that you and I and everyone that has ever existed are here right now. is it really possible for matter to become conscious? of course not...is it even possible for matter to exist?!?? it is the will of something vastly, and infinitely greater than you and I to be able to have this text converstation, for that matter to experience everything you and I have ever experienced.

as for you not experiencing the divine on what would be considered gateways to the divine (mushrooms), my guess is that either you did not take enough, or you are a very young soul who is not prepared to see the divine yet. it is a very scary thing, luckily only temporary, to realize that you are in fact eternal.

No there dont HAS to be a god. Just because you cant explain something it is not evidence for a god.

I can see, how you might think, well, there has to be a god. I am a former believer in ID, using exactly the same arguments that you do.

Furthermore, when i was a kid i was very christian, my parents wasent, but i was. Im talking about when i was like 7-12 years old. Before i got confirmed at 14, i read the bible, just to be sure i wanted this.

I did at that time.

Nothing in this world shows evidence of a creator.
You CAN however, with your human mind, interpret things and say "Oh this MUST have been created", but thats not proof.

Oh and stop talking talking about drugs, apperently it isent allowed here. But one last statement about drugs: What you see when your high, is your own mind. It dosent make sense that drugs would open "gates" to another world.

Read up on chemistry.

I once flirted with my radiator (while on drugs), but that dosent mean the radiator is somehow alive. Once i had a long conversation with that red dragon from cartoon Mulan, that dosent mean it exists.

[edit on 11/9/06 by Jugg]

like i said, you are a young soul who is unprepared for the divine. that is why you do not ponder great things, you talk to radiators instead, which by the way was probably real as your brain interprets your own reality. just because somebody else can't see the radiator talking does not mean that it is not indeed talking to you.

and science cannot begin to explain why we are conscious, so don't even bring up chemistry because it does not explain why or how we think, just how chemicals react to one another.

i'll stop talking about drugs, but it seems unusual to me that this great site would surpress something that has to do with interpreting reality. i don't think native americans (north and south) we're using peyote or salvia to get high...they used it to connect with the creator and the source. seems valid to me but i digress.

When I think of religion I can't help but think it is a weakness on the behalf of mankind. A flaw in our systems. In my eyes, human beings can't grasp their own mortality and thus need an alternate promise to an eternal life.

I do not want this to sound like a swipe at any religion, but out of a promise of life on this planet (with no guarantee of a death time limit) or an eternal life of happiness, religion somehow looks promising doesn't it?

I belive in god, I tend not to belive in the god religions created, but I do belive in a creator of the universe, it may be a force, it may look different, it does not have to have white hair, red eyes, and a white robe, maybe god is an energy field, maybe another for, who knows, any way the posibility for god "as we call him" to exist are plausible.

Take the atom, an incredible small particle that looks the same at first view, atoms give colors , it makes water and soil, what is the difference betwen an atom that forms water and an atom that forms land?
There is no differnece , it's not colored blue because it forms water and it's not brown because it forms land, but it's responisble for giving colors and it's responsible for making all kind of compositions.
The second part about an atom is that they are all tuned to the same frequncy, infinite atoms working at the same frequncy, how did this hapen?, also if an atoms would have a lower frequncy the universe would go in non existance, this little microscopic particle is so complex it is a puzzle for scientists, it has a well defined mecanism, to say that all the atoms in the universe are identical by random event and that they are tuned to the same frequncy also by random event would be just too much.
Science can explain how they work , science didint invent them and we didint invent science, the science was there for us to colect it, it was present waiting for us to come and find it.

There are thgings in the nature so comlex that no man has able to pull by invention, nature with it's quality VS human inventions just don't compare, which tells us something, if you want proof of god go out in the nature , perfection can not be acived by random events, evolution is posible but only when it is directed on the path of perfection, if something is not perfect in nature is because we have toched it, such as the stratosfere and so on.
So far I don't see perfection on the inventions that we made, and we had time, lot's of it, so far I only see perfetion on the side of the nature, we only exist because of perfection"atoms"
We use the things in nature to invent other things, but we dont use it like nature do, what we create breaks down at some point.
Nature has a blue print, a blue print always has a planer behind it.

The universe and it's laws just makes scientists put logical questions?
Why put logical questions? when everything is by random
The universe works like a mecanism, for such a big place to work in such way and for it to hapen by random is just impoible.

And I would like to add
Who invented logic?

If a God, why not GodS?

Originally posted by Purgatory
If a God, why not GodS?

well just like math, everything starts from 1
1 is the universal number for all.
With out 1 everything would go in none existance.
In universe everything is usualy related to 1
A bunch of planets forms 1 solar sistem, a bunch of solar sistems forms 1 galaxy, a bunch of galaxyes forms 1 universe, so no matter how you put it everything starts from number one.

Ok I'm now gonna say something that's a little paranormal to us because of what humans only know because it may be the best way to help people understand that there must be a God if it's the truth. The bottom line is that in the begining some form of energy had to of always existed or we wouldn't be here and because the existance of nothing is not possible anyway. If it's true that all that exists must of only started with one form of energy with only 1 property, the big question is how did this form of energy develope to have more then 1 property which would eventually create this universe that has plenty of different properties. If this first energy with only 1 property is not an intelligent concience it can't have a will or reason and meaning to try and minipulate itself so it won't because it can't.

So my thoery is that the first form of energy in the begining was only intellegence and only the 1st dimension although maybe more than 1 dimension were automatically created by God when he started thinking because thinking has depth. As this intelligence was existing it learned how to manipulate parts of it's energy to become different. Thus, over time it created property 2, 3, 4, 6, etc... then it created a second dimension, 3rd, 4rth etc... within itself. The intelligence did it all because of the will to eventually create other living entities with intellegence that was derived from his because he was lonely. To explain how it can create energy and matters that can do different things from only 1 property is that he did it by dreaming the different dimensions and everything up in different parts of his concience since all a concience can do is think. This doesn't mean that we can create actual real things in our concience for if what I said here is true it probably only works for God. Also if this theory is true I think things ultimately go away completely in the 3rd dimension because they are no longer in Gods memory at all.

The question, "What created God?" It only forces me to say that nothing made him.

You don't have to believe in God. All I'm saying is that at some point, something had to come out of nothing.

All it proves to me is that miracles and impossible things can happen, with or without God (or at some point they could atleast, his existence is a miracle in itself, and he couldn't have caused it before he existed).

I guess some would say that it all just started out with something, or with God. I say that if that is the case, then there was no cause leading to the effect of the start, that there was no action to bring him into existence, and we have a start coming out of nothing, and that start is something.

@ the OP- That was very cool what you said about how the universe could not go back in time for infinity, because then our time would never be reached. Very cool never considered that before. I completely agree.