"War right" regardless of WMD'S

www.msnbc.msn.com...

President Bush would have ordered an invasion of Iraq even if the CIA had told him that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday.

This is just crazy. "We don't need any justification." is what he's basically saying.
We'll go to war with who we want, whatever the reason.

The U.S. invasion “was the right thing to do, and if we had to do it again, we would do exactly the same thing,” he said.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by mindlessinsanity]

"irregardless"?....You mean, "regardless"? Sorry,I'm a journalism student and I have a pet peeve on words being used incorrectly....

My bad.


[edit]

Fixed the problem.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by mindlessinsanity]

Originally posted by mindlessinsanity
My bad.


[edit]

Fixed the problem.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by mindlessinsanity]

Ok, you took that a bit too personally,but,hey,...to each his/her own.. NAMASTE If it's of any consolation..my dad always used to say "irregardless" as well. It's a common mistake,not a big deal.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Okay, okay.

But what about the rampant corruption? We're focusing too much on the mistake in the topic to talk about cheney being a monster.

Originally posted by mindlessinsanity
Okay, okay.

But what about the rampant corruption? We're focusing too much on the mistake in the topic to talk about cheney being a monster.

True....Well, the U.S Government has been corrupt for the last 40-50 years,I'd say. It's just that it's now coming to the forefront. The Bush administration, at least in my opinion, is getting the blunt end of things that has been going on for quite some time.

I don't see any logical disconnects in what Cheney is saying in that clip. After taking care of the Taliban, the most pressing issue in the war on terrorism was the Saddam regime. Not everyone may agree with that and certainly not everyone understands it, but this is the decision our elected leaders made when the nation was in extreme peril and Cheney is right that we really have no choice but to stay the course.

Well of course they would. There be oil in Iraq.

Of course, there plenty of troops out there who believed they invaded Iraq to remove a serious threat to America who would be quick to disagree with the President. I dunno. When I joined the army, i did it to defend America from enemies foreign and domestic, not liberate or babysit a bunch of morons who have been killing each other over god, territory, or some long forgotten slight.

But, there are people who think it was ok to liberate Iraq regardless. However, the majority of the American government is getting pretty fed up with it too.

Well see how long Bush has after this next election, as his political capital is seriously in the red.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't see any logical disconnects in what Cheney is saying in that clip. After taking care of the Taliban, the most pressing issue in the war on terrorism was the Saddam regime. Not everyone may agree with that and certainly not everyone understands it, but this is the decision our elected leaders made when the nation was in extreme peril and Cheney is right that we really have no choice but to stay the course.

I agree... We are in a war that we may not like but if we choose to pull out, I am afraid we will lose our courage to fight anywhere else. Look, we were told from the beginning that the "war on terrorism" was probably going to take fifty years or better. It's another "cold war" type of thing except we are dealing with people now who will actually attack. I don't think there was ever any REAL danger of Russia attacking us.

So we were never in any real danger from the USSR but we were in extreme peril from Iraq. Such extreme peril that our leader would have ordered the invasion even if the CIA said there wasn't a weapon of mass destruction in sight, which there wasn't. (snip) Grady you surprise me.


EDIT: Please keep the conversation civil.

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[edit on 10-9-2006 by mrwupy]

After taking care of the Taliban, the most pressing issue in the war on terrorism was the Saddam regime.

Jaysus...
Wow, coming from an alledged Nam vet, that's some heavy duty poop.
No, I don't want to see a scan of your DD214.
(snip)

NOTE: Keep the conversation civil are warnings will be issued.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 10-9-2006 by mrwupy]

I am what I say I am, but you should be more polite to your fellow board members.

True Grady...I do apologize.
I get worked up sometimes and start being stupid rather than thoughtful.
I'll work on it man...

I just noticed though, I was edited. My last sentence. Nothing dirty, and the most offensive part of my post was the first two sentences, which I thought were (in retrospect) rude. So did Grady, imho. Somehow, those words were allowed to remain. I apologized to Grady for that.
BUT,
ATS has been falling down this PC hole for ages now, and whether it causes you to implode or just roll over, I don't care, but it has become painfully obvious that this site died a couple years back and the disturbing trend of "keeping it in CS- or else" is what caused it to die. Four or five posters get away with murder, and anyone who disagrees is given a warning, flagged or outright banned. WTF?. Christ, what a community...
So, to hell with this place, and the pansy mods/soccer moms in training.
I'm out and gone, and all of you can continue dancing on egg cartons while pretending your voice means anything while these smiling PC guys sell more annoying ads.

Good bye

[edit on 10-9-2006 by triptrippington]

color=Navy]mod edit, word choices



[edit on 11-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

On the note of apology i'd like to appologize to the user SpeakerOfTruth.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't see any logical disconnects in what Cheney is saying in that clip. After taking care of the Taliban, the most pressing issue in the war on terrorism was the Saddam regime. Not everyone may agree with that and certainly not everyone understands it, but this is the decision our elected leaders made when the nation was in extreme peril and Cheney is right that we really have no choice but to stay the course.

I disagree.

To me, IRAN seemed the more LOGICAL target, being the alqaeda terrorists passed through there.
Saudi even seemed more of a issue being the hijackers CAME from there ' supposidly '
The Mexican border seemed a decent project to secure the nation.

Iraq? it amazes me how people still make excuses for this collosal 'F-UP'
Has this 'right' decision removed our terrorist threat?
Or is the suppos mastermind still out there, having NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ?

Are some people really THAT BLINDED that they still consider IRAQ a reasonable response to the suspicous 911 attacks?

We should be ensuring these people done GAIN ENTRY or REMAIN in the USA before we jump over sea's ruin our economy and attempt to stop a foreign regime from continuing existence. Especially when they had nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Well of course they would. There be oil in Iraq.

Of course, there plenty of troops out there who believed they invaded Iraq to remove a serious threat to America who would be quick to disagree with the President. I dunno. When I joined the army, i did it to defend America from enemies foreign and domestic, not liberate or babysit a bunch of morons who have been killing each other over god, territory, or some long forgotten slight.

But, there are people who think it was ok to liberate Iraq regardless. However, the majority of the American government is getting pretty fed up with it too.

Well see how long Bush has after this next election, as his political capital is seriously in the red.

I really don't think I could have said that any better, since I usually just get p#d and start ranting when it turns to the troops.

You have voted Skadi_the_Evil_Elf for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't see any logical disconnects in what Cheney is saying in that clip. After taking care of the Taliban, the most pressing issue in the war on terrorism was the Saddam regime. Not everyone may agree with that and certainly not everyone understands it, but this is the decision our elected leaders made when the nation was in extreme peril and Cheney is right that we really have no choice but to stay the course.

I saw no peril on 911 except of the right to be American! We were not attacked for being rich, famous or a landof gold nor a land of free people. We were attacked due to our political positions in the middle east. Now herre is a tidbit on the invasions and future ones. Is Cheney a mossad agent or is he just a represenative of the oil barons. We entered Afgan to install a new regime that was more open and cheaper to bribe for the opening of a oil pipeline.
www.kiddmillennium.com...
Construction of oil and natural gas pipelines through Afghanistan was under serious consideration during the Clinton years. In 1996, Unocal won a contract to build a 1,005-mile pipeline in an effort to exploit the vast Turkmenistan natural gas fields. The pipeline would extend through Afghanistan and Pakistan, terminating at Multan, with a proposed 400-mile extension into India. The project was halted when the Taliban regime became unmanageable. President Bush appointed Zalmay Khalilzad, a former Unocal consultant, as his special envoy to Afghanistan. Today, the US desire to control fossil fuel in this region is paramount in how the energy sector is influencing the Bush administration's policies in Afghanistan and Central Asia.
www.ringnebula.com...
1997 US Congress passed a resolution declaring the Caspian and Caucasus region to be a “zone of vital American interests.
Feb. 28, 1998 Unocal VP International Relations addressed US House of Representatives(14) clearly stating that the Taliban government should be removed and replaced by a government acceptable to his company. He argued that creation of a 42 inch oil pipeline across Afghanistan would yield a Western profit increase of 500% by 2015.
Jan. - Feb. 2001 Upon taking office, the Bush administration immediately engaged in active negotiations with Taliban representatives (27) with meetings in Washington, DC, Berlin, and Islamabad. During this time the Taliban government hired Laila Helms, niece of former CIA director Richard Helms (28), as their go-between in negotiations with the US government.

Bush (oil) administration (29) includes:

Dick Cheney, VP: Until 2000 - President of Halliburton (in position to build the Afghan pipeline).
Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor: 1991-2000 - Manager of Chevron Oil, and Kazakhstan go-between.
Donald Evans, Sec. Commerce: former CEO, Tom Brown, Inc. (a $1.2 billion oil company).
Gale Norton, Sec. Interior: former national chairwoman of the Coalition of Republican Environmental Advocates - funded by, among others, BP Amoco.
Spencer Abraham, Sec. Energy: Up through his failed bid for senatorial reelection in the 2000, he received more oil and gas industry money than all but three other senators (January 1997 through July 2000) (30).
Thomas White, Secretary of the Army: former Vice Chairman of Enron and a large shareholder of that company's stock.

For what ever the reason the war on terror is about do we forget OIL IS BIG and controls our daily lives.

It will be interesting seeing what will happen when the oil crashes through our own supplies running out or other nations cutting the tap. Undoubtably the common peoples will suffer needlessly due to inability of our own elected leaders to pursue cleaner, more effecient fuel that is capable of being grown out of the ground. There's always the chance that the folks in washington will smarten up to the fact that Oil, no matter how dependant on it we may be, is quite literally ruining our planet through our misuse.
America uses more oil and gasoline than any other nation. Our current Cabinet, just as Mondegreen so expertly put together, is filled with businessmen that were dealing in the oil business, and the wars and areas under current conflict are oil-rich nations.
It's not a shocker, and it's not a suprise- we're still paying high dollar at the pump, and it's only going to get worse.

It makes me sick, and i know i'm not alone.

Thank you Mindlessinsanity for the perk.

This administration regardless of what it does has to be responable to us the American people. Yes, indeed they affect the lives of so many around the world, regardless if they are American or not. but, We the People as it so states in the Constitution desire better control of our government. I do not want to have a King over me nor a religious sword either. But we do have Oil Baron's that have stolen our National Sovereignty of free and self rule.
So lets look at the Iraq timeline to see the war on terror and its truths.
www.ringnebula.com...
Without evidence of Iraqi WMDs, without International authority to act in a preemptive manner, and without the required UN Security Council resolution to proceed, the United States and a handful of other governments - a "Coalition of the Willing" - attacked Iraq while millions throughout the world demonstrated their opposition to what was clearly a resource war.

Fully 3/4 of the world's oil reserves now fall under US control (Caspian reserves via a trans-Afghanistan pipeline, and two-hundred-fifty billion barrels via Iraqi occupation). The US thus hopes to control world oil trade and to demand that oil be purchased with US dollars as opposed to competing currencies (Euros). Nations throughout the world are thereby forced to hold hundreds of billions of US dollars in reserve, insuring that dollars will remain in maximum demand.

1920-1923 Treaty of Sevres (5) established British mandate over Iraq via authority of the League of Nations (essentially rubber-stamping the earlier Sykes-Picot agreement (3)), defining its borders (see also: Treaty of Lausanne (6)). (Borders drawn disrupted traditional cultural and economic ties, leading to persistent and ongoing conflicts.)
Oct. 7, 1959 22 yo Ba'ath party member, Saddam Hussein failed to assassinate Qassem in a CIA backed coup attempt (20). Hussein suffered a bullet wound to his own leg, and fled to Syria, then Egypt.(He escaped an imprisonment upon his later return, eventually helping to lead a successful Ba'athist coup in 1968.)
1988 Hussein attacked Iranian troops and Kurdish opponents in northern Iraq (Halabja) (51) in the Anfal campaign, again using chemical agents. Total deaths in the campaign have been estimated at 100,000. Note: a top CIA analyst has published information stating that the Iranians were responsible for the gassing of Iraqi Kurds, not Husein. (51a). In any case - despite subsequent claims that Hussein was responsible for these events, the US continued to send billions to Hussein for "agricultural purposes." (Items included armored trucks, helicopters, large amounts of pesticide chemicals, and anthrax.) Concerns regarding the funding of these items were raised in Congress and were quelled by the Reagan/Bush, Sr. White house.[Hidden Wars of Desert Storm (32)]
Aug. 1990 Bush Sr. expressed shock at Iraqi invasion, despite the fact that for several months it had practiced for the exact military situation with troops and armaments in place in the middle east poised for response. [General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr.: "We went ahead and did an exercise, what's called a command post exercise, which is what 'Internal Look' was, to test our ability to deal with this particular scenario and also to uncover any command and control problems that might exist, any doctrine problems that might exist between the air force, and the navy and the army forces. And it just so happened that we were in the middle of conducting the "Internal Look Command Post" exercises at the same time that the crisis developed in the Gulf." [Video testimony within the highly regarded film "Hidden Wars of Desert Storm (32)"]
Internal Look Command Post" exercises were conducted just like the exercises during 911. Remember in all these cases OIL was a backdrop but is never mentioned.
Sept. 11, 2001 A group of SAUDI nationals within the al-Qaeda network and aided by Osama bin Laden, attacked multiple targets in the US. This was said to have been in response to the ongoing US presence and increasing interference in the region. [See: TIMELINE OF OIL AND VIOLENCE]

Oct. 7, 2001 The US attacked Afghanistan where al-Qaeda training camps were said to have been active. [See: TIMELINE OF OIL AND VIOLENCE]
Dec. 2001 Shortly thereafter, the US placed a new regime in Afghanistan that was strongly linked to the oil industry. The building of a US controlled one-million barrels/day trans-Afghanistan oil pipeline, earlier refused by the Taliban, was soon after approved. [See: TIMELINE OF OIL AND VIOLENCE]

So where are we today on Sept 11, 2006, is America any safer and are Americana pushed any further from their Bill of Rights. When a Corporation is allowed to have more power than a citizen and it power controls the government. We have wars and these wars on terror should be called the Wars for Oil!