Marine in Iraq, If you have any Intelligent questions you would like answered...

Gday there,
1) What made u decide to enlist in the armed forces & the USMC in particular?
2) Do you feel this is a long term career for you? If so in what branch or speciality?

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
Take a trip out here, fly into Bagdad. See people actually enjoying themselves. They dont have to worry about Sadoms hit squads taking their Fathers, brothers, uncles, just because they didnt like the way they were dressed, or acted.

I have Iraqi-born friends who have relatives in Baghdad who would disagree with you. One man has lost three relatives in the past six months and their description of the situation out there is that, three and a half years into the occupation, their families are less secure than ever.

The Iraqi girl blog is a useful perspective on how things are from a civilian perspective. Here's a snippet of her latest entry:

Residents of Baghdad are systematically being pushed out of the city. Some families are waking up to find a Klashnikov bullet and a letter in an envelope with the words “Leave your area or else.” The culprits behind these attacks and threats are Sadr’s followers- Mahdi Army. It’s general knowledge, although no one dares say it out loud. In the last month we’ve had two different families staying with us in our house, after having to leave their neighborhoods due to death threats and attacks. It’s not just Sunnis- it’s Shia, Arabs, Kurds- most of the middle-class areas are being targeted by militias.

Other areas are being overrun by armed Islamists. The Americans have absolutely no control in these areas. Or maybe they simply don’t want to control the areas because when there’s a clash between Sadr’s militia and another militia in a residential neighborhood, they surround the area and watch things happen.

This is from a girl who, before the invasion, worked as "a computer geek" (her words) in a small company. After the invasion, fundamentalists started to get the upper hand and when she returned to her office, she was turned away because women aren't supposed to work under fundamentalist Islamic rules.

Let's just look at this again:

They dont have to worry about Sadoms hit squads taking their Fathers, brothers, uncles, just because they didnt like the way they were dressed, or acted.

No, they have to worry about fundamentalists taking their sisters... From the Iraqi girl blog, again:

For me, June marked the first month I don’t dare leave the house without a hijab, or headscarf. I don’t wear a hijab usually, but it’s no longer possible to drive around Baghdad without one. It’s just not a good idea. (Take note that when I say ‘drive’ I actually mean ‘sit in the back seat of the car’- I haven’t driven for the longest time.) Going around bare-headed in a car or in the street also puts the family members with you in danger. You risk hearing something you don’t want to hear and then the father or the brother or cousin or uncle can’t just sit by and let it happen. I haven’t driven for the longest time. If you’re a female, you risk being attacked.

I look at my older clothes- the jeans and t-shirts and colorful skirts- and it’s like I’m studying a wardrobe from another country, another lifetime. There was a time, a couple of years ago, when you could more or less wear what you wanted if you weren’t going to a public place. If you were going to a friends or relatives house, you could wear trousers and a shirt, or jeans, something you wouldn’t ordinarily wear. We don’t do that anymore because there’s always that risk of getting stopped in the car and checked by one militia or another.

And for those thinking of visiting Baghdad, to see everyone enjoying themselves, here's an interesting article about the death toll in the Baghdad morgue for August:

We took an interesting phone call today from an official at the Baghdad morgue. We get these calls every day – a daily tally of the violence. But this one was particularly sobering.

It turns out the official toll of violent deaths in August was just revised upwards to 1535 from 550, tripling the total. Now, we’re depressingly used to hearing about deaths here, so much so that the numbers can be numbing. But this means that a much-publicized drop-off in violence in August – heralded by both the Iraqi government and the US military as a sign that a new security effort in Baghdad was working -- apparently didn’t exist.

I wonder if whoever called from the Baghdad morgue will have to leave in a hurry, like Faik Bakir did...

Jonathan Steele
Thursday March 2, 2006
The Guardian

Faik Bakir, the director of the Baghdad morgue, has fled Iraq in fear of his life after reporting that more than 7,000 people have been killed by death squads in recent months, the outgoing head of the UN human rights office in Iraq has disclosed.

"The vast majority of bodies showed signs of summary execution - many with their hands tied behind their back. Some showed evidence of torture, with arms and leg joints broken by electric drills," said John Pace, the Maltese UN official. The killings had been happening long before the bloodshed after last week's bombing of the Shia shrine in Samarra.

Rich, yeah... according to Riverbend the Iraqi's are in a civil war against themselves while OUR TROOPS are standing around watching it happen. Let them win their own peace? Is that the strategy? I always thought it made little sense to force democracy on someone unwilling to fight for it themselves.


[removed name upon member's request], I understand completely if you don't wish to get political. You're young, you'll get over that.

But I have a politically minded 20-yo (younger than you) in college who is speaking to a recruiter about law school after he graduates with his bs's in history and political science. He wants the 2nd Lieu commission and embassy duty as a preq to working for the state dept. (his mother's politics might stop him there lol)

You say you would go back again and again and again. Do you see Iraqi's wanting to come here as part of the integration system. That is always one of the outcomes of war and peace--the immigrations that ensue as cultures meld when the hostilities cease.

Originally posted by rich23

The Guardian:

"Some showed evidence of torture, with arms and leg joints broken by electric drills,"

Gives new meaning to my (what I once thought was funny) sig line... I guess the hours without electricity gives them some relief, or are they battery charged?

[edit on 9/10/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Umms you didnt answer my questions dude, nm you prob too busy anyways.

I have just got one more questions for you.

How do you feel about them Marines, who are on trial right now over the rape of a 14 year old over in Iraq??

I want to know what your personal opinion is about all of this?

Thanks for your time

Rich, yeah... according to Riverbend the Iraqi's are in a civil war against themselves while OUR TROOPS are standing around watching it happen. Let them win their own peace? Is that the strategy? I always thought it made little sense to force democracy on someone unwilling to fight for it themselves.

To be fair here, when our troops DO get involved and try to instill order, they get accused of every conceivable crime, called baby murderers, and such.

Its a no win situation for our troops. They did not ask to be there. When they signed up, they signed up to defend America. Many truly believe in what they are doing.

Don't attack those who have to fight a war they didn't start, and are doing the best they can to make the best of a situation they have been given. Attack those who put em in this situation without all the necessary resources.

Your last point, however, is valid. people who will not fight for their own well being or make no attempt to change their lives for the better deserve nothing.

What's your MOS, Corporal?

Thanks for your spirit and willingness to serve in Iraq and to come here to ATS and deal with the mean-spirited individuals who can't seem to display even the slightest modicum of decorum.

[edit on 2006/9/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by psyopswatcher
Rich, yeah... according to Riverbend the Iraqi's are in a civil war against themselves while OUR TROOPS are standing around watching it happen.

Not quite. However, there are (simultaneously) two different Iraqs.

Remember that there aren't enough troops to put a soldier in EVERY household and on every street. Remember, also, that the culture is "the rule of the religiously backed warlord." Saddam, who knew how thing ran in his own country (very VERY different from the US) managed to hold things down with rather brutal tactics, but he did keep the extremist religious elements and the warlords in check.

With him out of power and no new charismatic figure put in his place, it was easy for the warlords and the religious parties to start building their own army of gangs.

Let them win their own peace? Is that the strategy? I always thought it made little sense to force democracy on someone unwilling to fight for it themselves.

These people ARE willing to fight. The problem is that there are a thousand ideologies and everyone wants their own tiny view to be the majority. Democracy isn't something acquired between one breath and the next. It has to be taught and it has to be learned. Russia is still trying to sort it out -- and it's been a good 10 years since Communist rule ended there.

Iraq, with less contact with these ideas, is going to have an even harder time.

You say you would go back again and again and again. Do you see Iraqi's wanting to come here as part of the integration system. That is always one of the outcomes of war and peace--the immigrations that ensue as cultures meld when the hostilities cease.

Truthfully, the ones who are here would like to go back... but ONLY when Iraq is safe for them. As has been noted in some of the articles above, the middle class is heavily targeted and anyone of a moderate faith has also been targeted. And there has been a systematic assassination of professors and teachers in the past.

Dark_Seraph I hope you do not answer any questions that put our brothers, you and I at risk. Please do not discuss about any attacks on our bases. Specifically where the mortar rounds are landing, and the placement, and effectiveness of the IED's. Treat the forum as if they enemy are reading it.

Thanks.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
How do you feel about them Marines, who are on trial right now over the rape of a 14 year old over in Iraq??

Those aren't Marines, those are felons. They don't deserve to be called Marines.

B.T.W. It would be great if you didn't ask questions like this as it can lower the moral of our fellow Marines in action. Every military is created by real humans. As we know the human race has its good and bad people. That means EVERY military has its "bad apples". Most military's are very secretive about what happens on the inside, so when bad stuff like this happens, you don't usually hear about it. The US is unlikely enough to have one of the most annoying media coverages on the face of the planet, so you might hear about these incidents more from the US military, than you would from any other military.

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
Well, I have decided that a lot of the usual questions were asked and answered so I am going to move into the conspiracy forums and Area 51 posts, this is getting political, and unfotunately, though I may fight for the politics, there is way to much controversy in this war. I hope I have helped answer most of your questions to the best of my ability and you got somewhat of an understanding from this. This was a great post and I highly enjoyed speaking to many of you. I need to get a few more posts in before I can U2U regular members (I can only send to admins and mods right now) but if you send them I will get to you as soon as I have that privalage. Thank you all again.

Semper Fi
Dark

PS: If any of the mods can change up my name on the first few posts that would be awesome of you, and I will give you major Kudos for your coolness.

AKA No more questions directed at me will be answered here. Thank you.

You know, I wasn't going to say anything but this whole attitude seems to reek of indoctrination. These talking points "We are doing good things" I just hear ad nauseam.

this typical type of answer:

"The Iraqi people as a whole love us. Their Children are always happy to see us and a majority of the elders also like us. If you were over here and saw what your average servicemember sees you would feel the same. Its not about helping the US or keeping our home soil safe so to say, but we are making friends. The United States Government has always helped those in need. We helped the Allies in WWII (Partly because the attack on Pearl Harbor) and since then we havent ever wanted to wait long enough for any attack to ever come that close to US Soil since. This country still has a way to go before it is ready to care for itself. The enemy is usually Terrorists from other countries that get into Iraq to cause the US greif. There is no real "Enemy" nor any straight out attacks. Most of the casualties here are from IED (Improvised Explosive Devices) that are left on the sides of roads and as our convoys pass them they are detonated. These cause most of the fatalities."


You aren't serving us pancakes and I wonder do you really think this? Why doesn't the military ever mention the vaticanesque sized embassy/ military bases they are building?
Isn't that a symbol of colonialism from the Americans?

Why aren't Iraqi's being hired to reconstruct their HOMELAND and Cultural landscape? Why did you not mention the children dying of our use of depleted uranium in hospitals? Wards and wards full of children suffering from radiation sickness from our weapons and munitions?

Anyone who paints a picture and answers in the talking points type of answer that Conservative/ pro war Think tanks provide. You have me concerned. The way this cat dodged out because of whoever touched a issue. It strikes me of Bad Botched P.R. And you gave us 9/11 talking points at the end. It's just so tragic that the military can't give people anything better than "We are doing great things and don't believe the media" The bodies in the morgue tell a different story and if I was a Iraqi family I would be outraged that this military can not face the truth of it's aggressive and authoritarian actions


I think Rich hit the nail on the head. You can't just paint with a broadstroke like this. It looks so forced and scripted. He ran out as soon as tough questions were given. It looks so damn suspicious

Always helped those in need" Jesus, this is just scary. If you can't see the corruption/self induced genocide that is going on with this administration and the contractors and how they are raping Iraq then you really need to look at things from a eagle eye's perspective. Most of us aren't saying the soldiers aren't doing good things. It's the action of the administration that is in question and people need to snap out of the facade.

The Pentagon's latest announcement of doing a more aggressive campaign on the web for P.R. IF this isn't timed to the tee with these kind of sentiments, I don't know what is. have a rhetorical question for Dark Seraph. Would you be outraged if someone embedded their military force on your property 24-7 and terrifying and traumatizing your family in the process? It was a nice college try but let's get back to earth. There is more critical thinking to do than just "Don't believe the media folks" (In Goofy the dog voice)



I'm sorry but this is just on so many levels Pavlov's dog syndrome and I feel bad that this is the best that the military can provide with for information regarding this war. It's gotten to this level,folks. "We are doing great things and Iraqi's are happy in the street." Jesus almighty... I feel like Im trapped in a Monty Python/Mel Brooks hybrid movie.









[edit on 10-9-2006 by MRGERBIK]

[edit on 10-9-2006 by MRGERBIK]

I was just wondering, and well, please don't answer this issue if it compromises security in any way. but....

what kind of assignments are they using navy personel in iraq? are they mainly staying on the bases? are there alot of naval personel in Iraq?

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph

Well, I have decided that a lot of the usual questions were asked and answered so I am going to move into the conspiracy forums and Area 51 posts, this is getting political, and unfotunately, though I may fight for the politics, there is way to much controversy in this war. I hope I have helped answer most of your questions to the best of my ability and you got somewhat of an understanding from this. This was a great post and I highly enjoyed speaking to many of you.

AKA No more questions directed at me will be answered here. Thank you.

Locked because of the above.
Thread author has the authority to re-open upon request.

So it is known, the reason I decided to lock the thread was because of questions being asked even though the author made it more than clear, no further answers would come. To preserve bandwidth that would surely be asked, I figured that would work.

However, certain urging has prompted another change in perogative.

Hope no trespasses were made....


[edit on 10-9-2006 by ADVISOR]

I was typing a reply when Advisor closed the Iraqi marine's thread. It was a request to you not to accuse me of attacking our troops... here's what I was getting at:


Skadi, a close friend of mine is a Gold Star Mom. Believe me, I couldn't be more concerned about our troops' well-being after seeing what just one family went thru with the death of their son in Baghdad, May 2004. A kid who was also a friend of my son's.

Please don't make that mistake again by accusing me of attacking our troops. Or ever calling names for that matter. I'll call them as I see them. If they're men enough to fight our wars, they're men enough to know the truth.

: Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

To be fair here, when our troops DO get involved and try to instill order, they get accused of every conceivable crime, called baby murderers, and such.

Its a no win situation for our troops. They did not ask to be there. When they signed up, they signed up to defend America. Many truly believe in what they are doing.

Don't attack those who have to fight a war they didn't start, and are doing the best they can to make the best of a situation they have been given. Attack those who put em in this situation without all the necessary resources.

Your last point, however, is valid. people who will not fight for their own well being or make no attempt to change their lives for the better deserve nothing.

But what I would like to get to the bottom of, like others in this thread, is where they get the idea that they are there to avenge the 9/11 tragedy. Blurring those lines with a fight for democracy and freedom is nothing but a shrewd move on the part of their handlers, imho.

The truly wicked question I'd like to ask is WHERE is all the material coming from to make the IED and attacks they suffer 2-3x a month. I know the stock answer will be: Iran/Syria/NKorea. But then why are the borders secure? Three years and they still haven't run out of explosives? C'mon, theyhave to be coming from somewhere. Inside?

So what happened to the munitions dumps that were there and why were they left unguarded? To be ransacked by the coming insurgency? There's a helluvalot of explosions going on and that material has to be stashed away somewhere.

Or are arms sales encouraged so the war machine profiteers can keep rolling in it?

Marine, [edit - name changed upon authors request see previous post;

Originally posted by Dark_Seraph
PS: If any of the mods can change up my name

I'm really just trying to get a profile on why young American men want to kill. Was it the video world you were brought up in? (my chief suspect) I suppose if you accept that they want to kill you first (for being occupiers of their land), it becomes justifiable in your mind. Can you not see that they are defending their honor as you would if they actually had invaded the US?

But, there is no justification for self-defense when you are the pre-emptors. Only on a one-to-one face action, a police situation. And that's what you are to the rest of the world... police action in Iraq. Sorry to break the news that way, but that's how it is.

The worse news is that it's all for the benefit of the Corporacracy. A new brand of fascism (govt run by business) that's only connection to religions is how they can use them to continue the fighting. An endless self-fed circle (or downward spiral?) that no amount of denial can make up for or will save the lives of the innocents who continue dying everyday. That you would want to die for that... I shake my head in disbelief.

What exactly is 'our's' in Iraq (belongs to the US) that would justify protecting?

Crimes of war are crimes againsty humanity. And everyone will bear the burdan of those sins.


* * * * *

I didn't want to let that left unsaid between us.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by ADVISOR]

B.T.W. It would be great if you didn't ask questions like this as it can lower the moral of our fellow Marines in action. Every military is created by real humans. As we know the human race has its good and bad people. That means EVERY military has its "bad apples". Most military's are very secretive about what happens on the inside, so when bad stuff like this happens, you don't usually hear about it. The US is unlikely enough to have one of the most annoying media coverages on the face of the planet, so you might hear about these incidents more from the US military, than you would from any other military.

And why should I not ask thwese sort of questions?

He is a individual he can make up his own mind if he decides not to answer it.

It was an Honest question anyways sorry if it offended you.

Thank You, Psy!!
I believe Dark was as he said. You're 21 years old, in Iraq, online, answering questions. A lot of excellent points were brought up by others, as to the incongruence, the horrible incongruence, of realities there.

You need to believe thinking points of indoctrination to survive mentally in one piece. The crack comes when you start to believe otherwise. Pat Tillman was older (around 28 years old) when he realized the gulf between what you are told is real and what you see as real.

My son's friend was killed along with Casey Sheehan that day. The military can order a new tank or gun, but a human Life cannot be replaced. Let us all grieve.

Psyops watcher:

Young men generally, with few exceptions, sign on to defend America. And young women, as I did. They sign on to serve an ideal, not an administration. People sign up not serve whoever is currently in office, but the nation as a whole.

Killing is a possibility when in the forces, and one that many troops do not want to engage in if its avoidable. They do not sign up to kill.

In fact, the majority of troops do manage to serve without killing. I did.

But sometimes killing is necessary abnd justified, especially if you have an enemy that has no qualms about it either, or views life as cheap.

This is not an endorsement for the current conflict. Just sort of a different look into the real people who serve. Nothing in this world is totally black and white. especially when regarding this.

Oh good, this thread isn't closed after all. Thank you guys for taking care of that. Fine, no more questions.

I was in the military too (80s-early90s) and I was about to tell Dawnstar that the navy seabees are there building stuff. But the reservist I talked to a year or so ago said they have CRAP to build with. Chickenwire for rebarb in roads, deplorable conditions. I'm sure there are other TAD assignments happening for other specialties, where they pull them from the ranks and from the reserves.

I don't see why WE are building roads that they're blowing up anyhow with their IED's. They want to destroy stuff? Live with it or fix it your damn self. Now stuff we've bombed out and destroyed... I suppose that's where the 'dozers come in and haul the irradiated material out into the desert.

I'm starting to understand the Arab fighting mentality, they will defend their honor to the death. The rules are the rules (Koran) and will not be deviated from. Is there a vid game that teaches that? Strict submission and nothing else. Sucks to be a woman there but I believe there is much behind closed doors that most are unaware of. Women doctors and teachers, professionals who have the confidence to run around bescarfed with an urchin for an escort. Riverbend, in the meantime is gaining some fame and notoriety that she deserves.

The portrayal of Baghdad before and after the
US invasion takes centre stage, with quotes from Western media entwined
with extracts from the blog and the horrifying statistics of war.

Source: BBC

Marine, I just want you to know that people care desperately about this situation. As you can tell by the links on my sig, it's there to remind me everytime I come to the agora (here) to talk about it.

Sure Halliburton & KRB are welcome to contracts there, they're taking some of the risk and unburdening us of our gold while they're at it. That, Dear Marine, is Funnel, Inc. and a good reason to pay attention to politics. Sorry I asked what state you're from.

By November, much will be made of how many absentee ballots are being sent and being returned. Voting (as some folks around here know) is an important issue to me. Each unit will be assigned a voting control officer and he/she will handle registration, asbsentee ballot requests. It's not a hard job, I did it in the mid-80's sometime in Rota, Spain.

(The sucky job is getting them to sign up for savings bonds--maybe if it got them points?)

Iskander! Awesome Questions brother, I honestly cant answer very many of them and you told me alot more than I knew! But I do know that as far as IED's go we are getting a lot better at detecting them, and as far as the ones that are detonated from Cell phones and whatnot we actually equip humvees with Jammers, I dont remember the exact name for them but they seem to be working alright, as long as the IED and trigger are not out of range of the jammers that is. Our casualty rate due to IED's has dropped a lot since the start of the war. And yes they still like to ambush our convoys like it is cool and then dissapear. a lot of burn agents are used in the IED's so many of our vehicles catch fire and are disabled quickly.

Dark_Seraph I hope you do not answer any questions that put our brothers, you and I at risk. Please do not discuss about any attacks on our bases. Specifically where the mortar rounds are landing, and the placement, and effectiveness of the IED's. Treat the forum as if they enemy are reading it.

Interesting. I smell a rat and see the tunnel.

Alright then, since all the sudden everybody is a soldier here, here's a simple question.

What's the first thing you do when you're fired upon? Let's see if they drill it in basic hard enough these days.

Now sound off like you see smoke!

reFlex!

Hit the deck? Report to battle stations?

I was an airdale in the navy--drove the 5,000 gal. tanker trucks (like Halliblurton) to refuel aircraft. The only time we were fired upon was playing some DEFEX games (every quarter) in Gtmo the 2-1/2 years I was there. The only Naval Infantry company in the world. It was them defending the base while the Jarheads there played the Cuban invaders... Like that would ever happen.

But I have seen USCG Falcon jets come back with bullet holes in their belly from drug runners in the Caribbean. Right next to where we hooked up the fuel hoses. They were fired upon too.