The Proven Government Liars Re: 9/11

Originally posted by KnowItAll
Perhaps I've just always missed the point with this particular "lie". I'd like for someone to specifically tell me the motivation and the point to bringing this out. I've heard this time and again, and simply don't see the relevence of this "lie" to the entire 911 CT.

If he made up a story about seeing the first plane he should be immediately impeached...

HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES for god's sake. He cannot just go around telling lies and making up stories with impunity.

You need to expect more from your elected officials and stop being such an apologist/dodger when it comes to federal crimes, etc.

Originally posted by snoopy
And then we must take into account all of the lies and deceptions on part of the truth movment as well. The same logic can apply. If the people behind Prison Planet and Loose change have lied about so many things, who's to know what they are being honest about?

WRONG.

THESE ARE ELECTED OFFICAIALS that control our future... they are to be held to the ULTIMATE STANDARDS.

Alex Jones can say whatever TF he wants, he is just some schlub off of the street.

Your comparison is apoloigist and disguts me.

Originally posted by snoopy
You do the math.

Ok I'll do the math.

Coefficient of thermal expansion of steel: 7.3 in./in. degree F x10 exp. -6

Sorce: www.engineeringtoolbox.com...


62 feet = 744 inches 38 feet = 456inches

let's start with 200 C and go up to 100C
200C = 392F
300C = 572F
400C = 752F
500C = 932F
600C = 1112F
700C = 1292F
800C = 1472F
900C = 1652F
1000C = 1832F

7.3 x 744 inch. x 392F x 10 exp -6 = 2.129 inches.

let's just skip to 1000C shall we.

7.3 x 744 inch. x 1832F x 10 exp -6 = 9.95 inches.

So, even at 1000C the steel expanded almost 10 inches. You really think that is going to push on the columns enough to have them buckle? Keep in mind the elastomeric dampener. I'm not sure but I think it was 4 inches? That's 4 inches on both sides = 8 inches. So, 2 inches of elongation is going to buckled those huge steel columns? BTW, the steel trusses would have bowed before they would have put any kind of pressure on the columns. Try it yourself. Get paperclip and unbend it. Now try and push that against a rod of bigger diameter. Does the paperclip make the rod bend or does the paperclip bend itself before the rod?

Also, good point Slap Nuts.....the steel would go to it's original length when cooled....not shrink. Is that enough math for you Snoopy?

If I'm wrong in any of my assumptions or calculations...please let me know so I can change it.

How we got onto this subject I'm not sure when the title of the thread is government liars? back to topic.

This is the MEDIA, but Clinton claims ABC is lying about 9/11:

www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

How could they contract to a size SMALLER than their original room temp size? This is a dumb argument.

They don't and it's not my argument, you just made that up. So I agree it would be a dumb argument if someone made it.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

WRONG.

THESE ARE ELECTED OFFICAIALS that control our future... they are to be held to the ULTIMATE STANDARDS.

Alex Jones can say whatever TF he wants, he is just some schlub off of the street.

Your comparison is apoloigist and disguts me.

It doesn't matter. you are using one party to base all your claims and beliefs on. They have lied just as well, yet you continue to trust them and rely on them. But you do just the opposite for the government. So it's a double standard you hold.

Look at what you are saying. One party you agree with can lie all they want and it's fine, the other can't. It's not apologist, it's pointing out how biased and hypocritical you are, so of course it's going to disgust you.

the main point being that it's a faulty argument you are making.

Originally posted by Griff


Ok I'll do the math.

Coefficient of thermal expansion of steel: 7.3 in./in. degree F x10 exp. -6

Sorce: www.engineeringtoolbox.com...


62 feet = 744 inches 38 feet = 456inches

let's start with 200 C and go up to 100C
200C = 392F
300C = 572F
400C = 752F
500C = 932F
600C = 1112F
700C = 1292F
800C = 1472F
900C = 1652F
1000C = 1832F

7.3 x 744 inch. x 392F x 10 exp -6 = 2.129 inches.

let's just skip to 1000C shall we.

7.3 x 744 inch. x 1832F x 10 exp -6 = 9.95 inches.

So, even at 1000C the steel expanded almost 10 inches. You really think that is going to push on the columns enough to have them buckle? Keep in mind the elastomeric dampener. I'm not sure but I think it was 4 inches? That's 4 inches on both sides = 8 inches. So, 2 inches of elongation is going to buckled those huge steel columns? BTW, the steel trusses would have bowed before they would have put any kind of pressure on the columns. Try it yourself. Get paperclip and unbend it. Now try and push that against a rod of bigger diameter. Does the paperclip make the rod bend or does the paperclip bend itself before the rod?

Also, good point Slap Nuts.....the steel would go to it's original length when cooled....not shrink. Is that enough math for you Snoopy?

If I'm wrong in any of my assumptions or calculations...please let me know so I can change it.

How we got onto this subject I'm not sure when the title of the thread is government liars? back to topic.

Look at it this way. The trussese get soft and sag in the middle. What are they going to do? Pull the columns inward or detatch and fall down? You have this notion that they are simply going to retain their shape and epxand outward. It simply does not work that way. But again, you are better off reading the NIST report which can do a far better job of explaining than I ever can since those guys are experts in the matter and not you or I.

Originally posted by snoopy
It doesn't matter. you are using one party to base all your claims and beliefs on. They have lied just as well, yet you continue to trust them and rely on them. But you do just the opposite for the government. So it's a double standard you hold.

Look at what you are saying. One party you agree with can lie all they want and it's fine, the other can't. It's not apologist, it's pointing out how biased and hypocritical you are, so of course it's going to disgust you.
the main point being that it's a faulty argument you are making.

There are a lot of half baked theories out there, however that doesn't change the fact that the "official story" is highly suspect. Anyone with a rational mind could go thru all the evidence and find huge gaping holes in the story. There are PLENTY of respectable people behind the truth movement who are interested in nothing more than the truth. Sure you will have people who are trying to exploit something for their own reasons, however this is no reason to chastise the entire group as a whole. Using this logic, EVERYONE in this administration should be tossed out on their rears for misleading us at every turn.

Dont put words into peoples mouths, no one ever said that people can lie all they want. As someone who personally does not believe the official story, I am angered more by people who believe as I do but present false information than the very people who are touting the "official story" as fact. You make some mighty claims calling us hypocritical and such, however the hypocracy is the attack on those who are most interested in the truth.

I thought that GW was supposed to be the "straight talker" who could relate to the average American... If this is the case, why are we having arguments of what he meant rather than what he said? Most CT's are more patriotic in my humble opinion that the biggest flag waving, war supporter out there. Most CT's are interested in the truth, not the BS propaganda we are fed on a daily basis.

Originally posted by snoopy
You have this notion that they are simply going to retain their shape and epxand outward.

Everytime I've done calculations for expansion of steel, it has been that they expand outward. What are they going to do? Twist?

It simply does not work that way.

Yes it does....do a little research into the expansion of steel and the thermal expansion coefficient.

But again, you are better off reading the NIST report which can do a far better job of explaining than I ever can since those guys are experts in the matter and not you or I.

While not an expert, I think I have enough qualifications to discuss this material.

MSNBC has a story that discusses the increasing number of people who believe there is a 9/11 conspiracy.

9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply
Many Americans suspect U.S. government involvement or complicity
source: www.msnbc.msn.com...

A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.

I'm wondering why the "controllers of the media" are allowing these stories, or maybe it's just that they can't control it at all?

I'm hoping they can not control it. What is the sense of "free speach" if it can be controlled?

Originally posted by Griff
I'm hoping they can not control it. What is the sense of "free speach" if it can be controlled?

If you believe the conspiracies about the Illuminati and The Shadow Government... they basically control what news you hear about and what you don't. There are lots of very important issues that we NEVER hear about!

What about the lie regarding the german intellegence regarding the warning of this attack on september 10-11.

The germans warned us, and the white house said "thank you, we already know that"
and then a few days later called them back to ask "OH BTW, could you forget we said that... and could you forget that you warned us... in fact... could you just forget it all?"


germans were told to coverup the warning

I would think that proves without a doubt, that the attack was at least allowed to happen, if not directly aided...

We had to wait for 50 years to get the same truth about Pearl Harbor... maybe the internet is helpful afterall...

[edit on 8-9-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
What about the lie regarding the german intellegence regarding the warning of this attack on september 10-11.

The germans warned us, and the white house said "thank you, we already know that" and then a few days later called them back to ask "OH BTW, could you forget we said that... and could you forget that you warned us... in fact... could you just forget it all?"

[edit on 8-9-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

I think there is a BIG BIG plan that our government has in store for us all (and I mean the entire world) and it's like a snowball rolling down the hill and we can't stop it.

Thanks for sharing that info Lazarus!

you know what?

i am worried about all this. I like this tread but theres a thing i dont understand.

lets say if ( even if i believe in a conspiracy in this case) there was neo cons implication in 911. So many details was orchestrate in a way 2 towers fell. Now im asking if the lies we heard could have been there to divide the US, on purpose, a part of the details still. We all know we are beeing monitored and we knows that they know we dont believe in your official story mr Bush cause you busted yourself or did he realy gat busted?

Im starting to feel the so called revolutionary change pnac could be is dividing ppl. my head boil on those cases and im not a paranoiac person im maybe too lucid sometime but i just hope those lies was real lies. real errors in their process.

Originally posted by KnowItAll
SLAPNUTS....Can't let you get away with that one.
Where has President Bush ever DIRECTLY linked Iraq with 911? HMMM?
Let me help you here...NEVER! Yes, GWB has said that Iraq is the central front for the war on terrorism...but NO WHERE has he or his administration linked Irag and 911.
In my humble opinion sir, I think your agenda is getting in the way here.

Actually there is a connection made by Bush himself in an interview at the WH concerning Saddam and UBL,here u go.

"Gibson: And that's the one thing that I question, whether people do have any sense of that. For loathsome as he may have been, Saddam Hussein was not connected to al-Qaeda, and he was not behind 9/11.

"Bush: No, I understand that people ask, 'How can this be a connection, between the war on terror and,' you know, 'How can Iraq be a connection when Saddam Hussein didn't order the attacks?' And you know, I understand that concern, because he didn't order the attacks. The enemy, however, believes that Iraq is a part of the war on terror. Osama bin Laden has called Iraq central to the war on terror. And if we lose, if this young democracy fails, the enemy will be emboldened. . . .



www.washingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by eagle eye
you know what?

i am worried about all this. I like this tread but theres a thing i dont understand.

lets say if ( even if i believe in a conspiracy in this case) there was neo cons implication in 911. So many details was orchestrate in a way 2 towers fell. Now im asking if the lies we heard could have been there to divide the US, on purpose, a part of the details still. We all know we are beeing monitored and we knows that they know we dont believe in your official story mr Bush cause you busted yourself or did he realy gat busted?

Im starting to feel the so called revolutionary change pnac could be is dividing ppl. my head boil on those cases and im not a paranoiac person im maybe too lucid sometime but i just hope those lies was real lies. real errors in their process.

I have wondered this very thing for some time now, - divide and conquer - . One of the things that gives us strength as a nation is when we are united together toward a common purpose. 911 should have been the biggest purpose since pearl harbor - but it seems that the powers that be are doing all they can to ensure the exact opposite. Their supporters for the most part would follow them over the edge of a cliff riding on a burning train before admitting any wrondoing on the part of the administration. Knowing that they have so many people brainwashed, it woud be very easy to polarize the rest of the population with half truths and vague references. Unfortunately, I believe this is something that has been planned long before 911. 911 was just a golden oppertunity for them to push their true agenda.

I have wondered this very thing for some time now, - divide and conquer - . One of the things that gives us strength as a nation is when we are united together toward a common purpose. 911 should have been the biggest purpose since pearl harbor - but it seems that the powers that be are doing all they can to ensure the exact opposite. Their supporters for the most part would follow them over the edge of a cliff riding on a burning train before admitting any wrondoing on the part of the administration. Knowing that they have so many people brainwashed, it woud be very easy to polarize the rest of the population with half truths and vague references. Unfortunately, I believe this is something that has been planned long before 911. 911 was just a golden oppertunity for them to push their true agenda.

I totally agree. And the U.S. government is orchestrating everything that happens in the Middle East to ensure the desired outcome.

It reminds me of Cirque du Soleil. The world is a stage and we are simply an audience caught up in the "dream-like" show that they are presenting to us. But when the show is over and the lights come up, the doors may be locked!

Originally posted by eagle eye
Now im asking if the lies we heard could have been there to divide the US, on purpose, a part of the details still.
[...]
i just hope those lies was real lies. real errors in their process.

God, we could use a thread on this alone.

I will admit, it is a very real possibility that these things were expected to be picked up on, and built to a revolutionary climax, just to take out our form of government and replace it with something that much worse.

Our Constitution, though not perfect, is so much stronger than anything else I'm aware of on the face of the Earth. If change is achieved -- how do we know it won't be guided? How do we know anything we may do will result in a better system than what is currently in place?

At least we still have gun rights, albeit infringed upon by requiring a license, in my opinion.

This I know for sure: Real freedom is not granted to you by any government. Your freedom from the influence of others is your responsibility alone, and breaking others' laws in the process may just be a natural extension of freedom.

Don't forget Condaliar Rice.

Yes - also don't forget Ms. Rice saying in that interview "Nobody (in the Government) could have ever have Imagined that Terrorists from within the country would Hijack Commercial Airplanes & fly them into buildings - using them as Missiles" (it is not an Exact quote - but its very close).

= LIE - look of the "Able Danger" program that the DOD/DIA was running prior to 9/11 - that they tried to cover-up & erase its existence after 9/11. There is still this whole issue of the "Prior Knowledge" controversy.

Ms. Rice is nothing other than a Cronie (albeit an Intelligent Cronie) that was Promoted AFTER the events of 9/11/2001 from "National Security Advisor" to "Secretary of State" for God's sake! Something is definitely Rotten in Denmark (or should I say the BUSH CABAL).