Freemasonry's greatest gift

The greatest gift of that Fraternity is the invocation of thought. Its symbols, shrouded in mystery, are they antient? Are they modern? Is the 1700s modern? A thousand years from now they'll undoubtedly be antient.

These symbols can mean so much and are shared between cultures, it usually doesn't matter what the actual meaning is but what each Mason finds as truth, because at least in Masonry everyone is right to an extent of reason and duly respected.

This gift of invocation of thought is no accident for at least remember where the word God comes from (to which the G does or does not apply).

The word God comes from ancient "proto-German" meaning "To invoke".

Well,from what I gather the whole purpose of the symbolism in Masonry is to cause an individual to think of higher things.....

In my experiece the obsession with idols and symbolism is intended to overload an individual so that they lose their ability to comprehend basic things.
The whole process is designed to overwhelm a candidate to create the impression within them that they are experiencing a new form of rapid learning.
Any symbol could be interpreted in any manner as long as it keeps you believing you are on the road to enlightenment.
Ask any Freemason what they have actually learned in finite terms in 5 years of wondering around in daze believing that they have taken everything to a higher state of conciousness, you will inevitably get ther response that "you wouldn't understand."
Mostly because they don't understand anything, they just believe.
It's all there, childhood regression, idolation, self metered assessment and absolute denial of anything that could be deemed as failure.
A straight forward mind control process, on average lasting 5 to 10 years on susceptible individuals.

the road to enlightenment starts with helium.
-b

Originally posted by MrNECROS
In my experiece the obsession with idols and symbolism is intended to overload an individual so that they lose their ability to comprehend basic things.
The whole process is designed to overwhelm a candidate to create the impression within them that they are experiencing a new form of rapid learning.
Any symbol could be interpreted in any manner as long as it keeps you believing you are on the road to enlightenment.
Ask any Freemason what they have actually learned in finite terms in 5 years of wondering around in daze believing that they have taken everything to a higher state of conciousness, you will inevitably get ther response that "you wouldn't understand."
Mostly because they don't understand anything, they just believe.
It's all there, childhood regression, idolation, self metered assessment and absolute denial of anything that could be deemed as failure.
A straight forward mind control process, on average lasting 5 to 10 years on susceptible individuals.

The above rant is a perfect example of what Dr. Sigmund Freud called projection.

how does his statement in any way reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them?

I would say it is simply an opinion of an individual.

Me persoannly would say that the allegorical metaphors represented in freemasonry can be a peculiar system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols.
But however Freemasonry is non-dogmatic, there is no general interpretation for these symbols (or any Masonic symbol) that is used by Freemasonry as a whole.

I would suggest if anyoen wants to learn more about Freemasonry Join a lodge already... find out for yoruself.
You can spend days weeks hours reading nonsense posted about freemasons that in all reality have no relevant information pertaining to anything evil or NWO related.
So take it from a differnt point of view im no mason, just a guy that was a little misinformed from all the mis-inforamtion out there, it is kind of nice having real masons arguing about issues that means something to them.

Simply because one is not able to understand the underlying Mechanism of Projection, in relation to brain function, doesn't necessarily make it invalid?


Freemasonry's greatest gift [to humanity],IMHO, is the raising of the bar with regard to morality.


Kindest regards.



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[edit on 6-9-2006 by lucum per lucerna]

Originally posted by lucum per lucerna

Freemasonry's greatest gift [to humanity],IMHO, is the raising of the bar with regard to morality.


Kindest regards.



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[edit on 6-9-2006 by lucum per lucerna]

I'd say that and the quest for freedom....Without the Masons I seriously doubt if the American Revolution would have ever been born. Unfortunately, everything we have built from 1776-1930 has been virtually destroyed over the last 70 years. The path downward started about 1935 for the U.S of A.

Originally posted by lucum per lucerna
Freemasonry's greatest gift [to humanity],IMHO, is the raising of the bar with regard to morality.

IMO freemasonry has added nothing that wasn't there already. It has provided a novel and appealing mechanism for accessing that information though.

Perhaps then it's greatest gift is bringing Truth to those who might not otherwise have found it.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by lucum per lucerna
Freemasonry's greatest gift [to humanity],IMHO, is the raising of the bar with regard to morality.

IMO freemasonry has added nothing that wasn't there already. It has provided a novel and appealing mechanism for accessing that information though.

Perhaps then it's greatest gift is bringing Truth to those who might not otherwise have found it.

Quite right friend

My use of the term 'Morality' begs elucidation. From my life perspective I believe Moral Purity to be thee vehicle and Masonry a gold-gilded road, by which man may make use of, to reach the next rung of our social existence. In my opinion, like you, the message of Moral Purity has existed before the human conception of time, its inchoate form has merely matured under the growing potency of human intellectual inquiry. Moral [inner] Purity is this meatwhich nourishes the soul.

Matthew 18:3

...Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

My understanding of Freemasonry is largely based on the musings of the Illustrious Bro. Albert Pike, In his Magus Opus Morals and Dogma. Inside we find a similiar reverence and admonition with regard to the concept of Moral Purity and the institutional instrument of its benefaction.

Morals and Dogma

Masonry, forming one great People over the whole globe, and marching under the great banner of Charity and Benevolence, preserves that religious feeling, strengthens it, extends it in its purity and simplicity, as it has always existed in the depths of the human heart, as it existed even under the dominion of the most ancient forms of worship, but where gross and debasing superstitions forbade its recognition.

And

Morals and Dogma

God has ordained that life shall be a social state. We are members of a civil community. The life of that community depends upon its moral condition. Public spirit, intelligence, uprightness, temperance, kindness, domestic purity, will make it a happy community, and give it prosperity and continuance.

Its this Great Work which is foundational in Masonry and make no mistake, essential for the continued progress of humanity, In my most humble opine.

Morals and Dogma

It teaches that the soul of man is formed by Him for a purpose; that, built up in its proportions, and fashioned in every part, by infinite skill, an emanation from His spirit, its nature, necessity, and design are virtue. It is so formed, so moulded, so fashioned, so exactly balanced, so exquisitely proportioned in every part, that sin introduced into it is misery; that vicious thoughts fall upon it like drops of poison; and guilty desires, breathing on its delicate fibres, make plague-spots there, deadly as those of pestilence upon the body.

Simply Beautiful.



Kindest regards.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Ask any Freemason what they have actually learned in finite terms in 5 years of wondering around in daze believing that they have taken everything to a higher state of conciousness, you will inevitably get ther response that "you wouldn't understand."

Well, I would probably tell you "you wouldn't understand", but mostly because I know you wouldn't understand.

Having joined the fraternity, I wouldn't say my consciousness has been altered at all. I'm still me.

It's all there, childhood regression, idolation, self metered assessment and absolute denial of anything that could be deemed as failure.

Sorry, no. None of that is part of our organization.

Hmm, now see, when folks start talking about morality, invariably the conversation has to head towards religion. 'Why is murder wrong?' 'Because it is against His law...' or 'Because it just IS...'

The problem with that is that someone may have a different set of religious belief, and thus different morals. Who is thus right, and who wrong?

I'm of the mind that values should not be based on something as disparate as religion, but rather upon social good: "Why is murder wrong?' 'Because it causes discord in our social well-being.'

So, all that said...

I've found the greatest gift Freemasonry (or any of the social groups) has to offer is a group of people that believe in a set of values. If your values happen to coincide with theirs, than it's a great experience.

Originally posted by seridium
how does his statement in any way reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them?

For quite some time now on this forum, he's been in the habit of taking his own bad traits and megalomania, and projecting them onto Masons and Freemasonry. In the beginning, when he first started posting here, it was offensive. These days, it's just comical.

Actually Hobbes, what you like about Freemasonry is that you have been corralled into a group of "like minded" individuals who always endorse your own view as being correct.
Ever since you became a Mason, has everybody suddenly realized your worth...or are they just telling you what you want to hear?
Or worse still, are you only hearing what you want to hear...

Freemasonry itself explicitly espouses NO FIXED MORALITY - as long as it makes you obedient and controllable then anything is OK.

The more secret dirt someone has on you the better.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually Hobbes, what you like about Freemasonry is that you have been corralled into a group of "like minded" individuals who always endorse your own view as being correct.

Hope you dont mind Hobbes as this was addressed to you.

MrNECROS not sure if you have seen my posts in the SS threads before if you have you should know i`m not a Mason nor will i be,just so`s you know.If you have such an interest in freemasonry you should have picked up by now that the Masons on ATS disagree often.

Their camaraderie however is to be admired and its not because they`re a bunch of controlled minds,if anything that type of brotherhood should be practiced by other groups though it should`nt be confined to their or any one group imo.

Freemasonry itself explicitly espouses NO FIXED MORALITY - as long as it makes you obedient and controllable then anything is OK.

The more secret dirt someone has on you the better.

Although i hav`nt met personally any Masons many (not all)i`ve read from here on ATS i would consider very moral,what your alluding to is blackmail as control maybe it has happened in their org,but your accusing them all of it.Put it this way MrNECROS if you have ever agreed with someone and they with you does that mean your mind is being controlled because your in a group of agreement?

The works of Masons (charities etc) could be a front imo but with such a front there would have to be many who do the work legitimately the same could be said with other charities or orgs,those of which i can easily imagine would be offended by those accusations because there would be many who do good work and are decent people.

I`m a Christian and have been engaged in conversations where people view our beliefs likewise to that of what you allude the Masons of being(controlled),so i can understand why your only seeing or receiving negative responses.Check out some of the Christian bashing thread and you may see what i mean.

GPS777,
I've been the subject of nearly 5 years of harassment by this "fraterity" for not joining a lodge of all things.
I've personally met at least a thousand or so individual Freemasons during that time (like it or not) and I can honestly say that none of them are playing with a full deck, the extremes they will go to over the most petty things clearly certify them as mentally ill.
If anyone ever bothered to read Morals and Dogma rather than digging up snippets to support their argument they would see Pike openly admits it is a mind control cult but that it is the best way of dealing with the unthinking masses.
Yes any open charity work they do (if at all) is a front not only for the public but also for themselves.
And believe it or not you do know probly dozens of Freemasons, it is a secret society - they won't tell you unless you become one or it becomes impossible to deny.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually Hobbes, what you like about Freemasonry is that you have been corralled into a group of "like minded" individuals who always endorse your own view as being correct.

No one corralled me. I joined of my own free will.

And they don't always endorse my views or claim that I am correct. Actually, I've come in to disagreements several times with brothers.

What we have in common are values... we can disagree, for instance, without slandering each other or picking fights. And we can agree to disagree, if it comes down to it.

Ever since you became a Mason, has everybody suddenly realized your worth...or are they just telling you what you want to hear?

My becoming a Mason has made no change in the people around me. It's introduced me to new people, of course, but that's not the same thing.

Freemasonry itself explicitly espouses NO FIXED MORALITY - as long as it makes you obedient and controllable then anything is OK.

Gee, that must make things like this rather awkward. I mean, the number of times the poor guy has had to cross out values, and have new ones tattooed... a real shame, says I.

Temperance, fortitude, prudence and justice. Faith, hope, and charity. Those are the words that you'll find explicitly in our works... they are what we aspire to.

So, where do you get the 'explicitly espouses NO FIXED MORALITY' part?

Hello MrNECROS,

Mind control cult is a strange and potentially abberant way of describing an organization determined to improve the quality of life for all of mankind by holding to a very high moral standard [as shown in select snippets] and expressing it through personal example?

The cold and abject way you refer to your fellow human beings as the Unthinking masses might qualify as border-line antisocial behavior. A state of mind that one may want to take notice of. I say this with the utmost concern because of the blatant hypocrisy in your statement. For example, you accuse a philanthropic society of collusion and character deficiency based on your perceived sentiment yet the emotional inflection in your choice of words, vis-a-vis unthinking masses, mind control cult, shows that you may indeed be suffering from what you claim others are guilty of!

This is not an attack but merely an honest observation friend. Take from it what you will.

Kindest regards.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
I've been the subject of nearly 5 years of harassment by this "fraterity" for not joining a lodge of all things.

Possibility 1) A fraternity, that through ALL of its history has EXPLICITLY stated that it is forbidden to recruit, has decided to lay that landmark aside for a bit, to try and attract you, a person that seems to have a foul opinion of the group.

Possibility 2) You're a liar.

Now, I'm not a betting man, but I know where I'd put my money.

I've personally met at least a thousand or so individual Freemasons during that time (like it or not) and I can honestly say that none of them are playing with a full deck, the extremes they will go to over the most petty things clearly certify them as mentally ill.

Wow. I don't think I *know* a thousand people by name, Freemasons and non all included... never mind know them well enough to be able to make a claim about their mental faculties.

If anyone ever bothered to read Morals and Dogma rather than digging up snippets to support their argument they would see Pike openly admits it is a mind control cult but that it is the best way of dealing with the unthinking masses.

Oh, please quote a chapter or page number for this one...

Yes any open charity work they do (if at all) is a front not only for the public but also for themselves.

How can something be a 'front for oneself'? Are you trying to say that we are 'deceiving ourselves into thinking our works are for good'??

We do plenty of charity work, much of it with little to no recognition.

But, for sake of argument, why don't you pick out one of our charitable works, and tell us how we are using it as a vehicle of deception?

And believe it or not you do know probly dozens of Freemasons, it is a secret society - they won't tell you unless you become one or it becomes impossible to deny.

Waaaaait a minute... you distinctly stated that you were NOT a Mason.

So, by your logic and admission, you've admitted that you don't really know who around you are Masons. So, is that how you know 'a thousand' Freemasons - by assuming that everyone around you is one?

I don't tell everyone I encounter that I am a Mason. It's part of my life, not theirs. But I don't hide it from them.

Hobbes -
Try to compose coherent retorts - randomly cutting and pasting sections of someones else's post and adding your own "stream of consciousness" type remarks to it only creates nonsensical rubbish no matter how highly you may regard it yourself.

Freemasonry is a lie in itself - that's what the 32nd Degree is all about.
There is no "Royal Secret",that is (supposedly) the irony because it is the belief that there is some "secret knowledge" held by this organization as to life the universe etc...that propels it forward.
Finite truth and falsehood do not exisit in Masonic logic - just belief.
If something is believed then it is true.
If it is not believed it is false.

All Freemasons live in a state of self denial, they only hear what they want to hear.
Many of the things that go on in lodge environments are taken from a role play view when it suits the individual so as to deny that they themselves actually performed something they are ashamed of.
It wasn't the "real me" that stole a passport, vandalized a vehicle etc...that's just to show the evil anti-mason what THEY would do if they were in the same situation, or maybe I'm just keeping that gold watch safe because if I didn't take it some bad person could have stolen it...you get the drift I'm sure.

This is what I mean by Freemasons creating a front for themselves, this behavior was encouraged in all the lodges I've had the displeasure of encountering in the last 5 years - in half a dozen countries across 3 continents.
Maybe as ten or twenty thousand individuals or even more, the scale of it is beyond ridiculous really.
And completely pointless.