What is masonry?

Im just currious of what your definition of masonry was. Because it appears that several people have completely contradictory definitions. And im just curious what you intelligent people think.

Originally posted by Forsaken Druid
Im just currious of what your definition of masonry was. Because it appears that several people have completely contradictory definitions. And im just curious what you intelligent people think.

Masonry is an international fraternal organization dedicated to good fellowship, humane and liberal ideals, and charity. The society is generally considered the world's first fraternity, with all other fraternities and sororities incorporating elements of the Masonic system to form their own.

As far as I'm concerned Masonry is elitist. And is better for it and so it should remain.

Not just anyone can join, but only those willing enough to get off their lazy butts and better themselves.

It's not for the morons who are content in a drunken stupor to throw their frat's tv out their frat house's third story windows.

It is an elitist society where only the best can join...the best being anyone willing to make themselves such.

And that's why it had always been a beacon to the free world.

Freemasonry defines itself as:

"A peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols"

Peculiar is used here in the sense of 'uncommon', 'unusual', 'distinctive in nature or character from others'.

To me this sums it up quite perfectly - A program teaching Morality, distinctive in its approach, which utilizes symbols having an abstract or spiritual meaning to explain each particular (moral) lesson.

The symbols most commonly used are those from the stonemasons, although others are included, and it is important to note that freemasonry has created its own masonic meaning for these symbols for use in the ritual/lectures.

Well, according to the writings of Pike,Churchward, Hall and other writers on Masonry it is a belief system which practices ancient esotericism....nothing to be afraid of at all...As a matter of fact, I lay you odds that if the world was based more on esotericism it wouldn't have a quarter of the problems it does today.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Masonic Light,

I picked up a notion somewhere that you were a scholar on Masonic History.

Could you tell me a little about the "legend" of Hiram Abiff and the 3 stonemasons building Solomon's Temple and something about them going into hell and meeting the ancestor Tubal Cain and looking for the lost name of God. The story about the King who loved the Queen of Sheba and she loved one of the stonemasons.

This was very enlightening when I read it and I can't find a reference.

Also would you liken Freemasonry with Gnostic teaching, or Rosicrusions?

[edit on 6-9-2006 by interestedalways]I hope I am not going to be blackballed by bothering the Masons on ATS too much. I personally have nothing against any particular Mason. I am just curious and am attempting to dig a little deeper than the famous dance ritual performance I usually encounter on these subjects.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by interestedalways]

ma·son·ry (msn-r) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "masonry" [P]
n. pl. ma·son·ries

1.
1. The trade of a mason.
2. Work done by a mason.
3. Stonework or brickwork.

dictionary.reference.com...

Masonry is social engineering

Originally posted by interestedalways
Could you tell me a little about the "legend" of Hiram Abiff and the 3 stonemasons building Solomon's Temple and something about them going into hell and meeting the ancestor Tubal Cain and looking for the lost name of God. The story about the King who loved the Queen of Sheba and she loved one of the stonemasons.

I can only speak definitively for the degrees of masonry itself (not for the Scottish Rite, York Rite, or any of the many others), but most of what you mention does not occur. In fact, the only place I've encountered it is Freemasonrywatch.org. What DOES occur, is this:

Fellowcraft Masons are building the Temple for King Solomon, under the leadership of Grand Master Hiram Abiff. They are promised that, upon completion of the Temple, they will receive the secrets of a Master Mason.

The Fellowcraft Masons conspire against the Grand Master, and three of them confront him, demanding the secrets. He refuses, and they kill him and flee.

The remaining Fellowcraft, whom suffered a change of heart, are ordered to seek out the ruffians. They find them, and bring them before King Solomon, who orders them executed.

King Solomon orders the Fellowcraft to seek out Hiram's body, as he alone possessed the secrets of a Master Mason. The body is found, but the knowledge is lost. The body is exhumed from the crude grave, and reburied with honors within the Temple he had been building.

King Solomon makes Master Masons out of the Fellowcraft, but mourns the loss of the old secrets. New secrets are chosen, based on the lessons of the senseless tragedy that has ensued.

Also would you liken Freemasonry with Gnostic teaching, or Rosicrusions?

Gnosticism: Freemasonry generally encourages the exploration and understanding of one's personal faith, without insisting upon indisputable 'truths'... which forms the core of Gnosticism. So the concepts are quite compatible.

Understand, however, that Freemasonry doesn't impose Gnosticism upon a member... some brothers don't have the flexibility to explore their beliefs, and that's fine. But the general principles of tolerance, serenity, and understanding that the fraternity espouses make it a breeding ground for that sort of thought.

Rosicrucianism: Freemasonry's teachings are all symbolic, so the concept of speculative alchemy (evolution of the soul) versus operative alchemy (lead to gold) fits well. There have been a number of para-Masonic - Rosicrucian orders throughout our history.

Again, while the pursuit and understanding of life's mysteries is encouraged, this particular way of thinking is not imposed within Freemasonry.

I hope I am not going to be blackballed by bothering the Masons on ATS too much.

If we weren't interested in discourse and discussion, we wouldn't come here - of our own free will and accord - in the first place.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Masonry is social engineering

Stated as only the ignorant can.

We don't impose our values and ideals on others. All members must come to us of their own free will and accord. How can this possibly constitute social engineering?

Originally posted by Hobbes

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Masonry is social engineering

All members must come to us of their own free will and accord. How can this possibly constitute social engineering?

... social engineering is a term that describes a non-technical kind of intrusion that relies heavily on human interaction and often involves tricking other people to break normal security procedures.

A social engineer runs what used to be called a "con game".

For example, a person using social engineering to break into a ... network would try to gain the confidence of someone who is authorized to access the network in order to get them to reveal information that compromises the network's security.

searchsecurity.techtarget.com...

Like I said, masonry is social engineering.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Social engineering falls into two catagories:

1) Political Science - An attempt to influence popular behavior on a large scale.

2) Security - A method of obtaining confidential information by exploiting the natural tendancies of the victim.

So then... if you mean the first case, how so? The values and ideals of Freemasonry are our own, and are not imposed upon society around us.

If you mean the second case, how so? What information are we trying to obtain, from whom, and by using what exploit?

Thanks for the watered down version of the story Hobbes.

So you say "Freemasonry generally encourages the exploration of one's personal faith without insisting on indisputable facts" does this only apply to fellow Masons? Those of us who explore our beliefs about Freemasonry are expected to supply indisputable facts when saying what we believe about the organization.

I don't blame you for getting defensive when you are named as pedophiles and the like but as far as alot of what is brought up you may be a little more allowing before attacking as to be fair.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Thanks for the watered down version of the story Hobbes.

My pleasure.

So you say "Freemasonry generally encourages the exploration of one's personal faith without insisting on indisputable facts" does this only apply to fellow Masons?

No, not at all.

Those of us who explore our beliefs about Freemasonry are expected to supply indisputable facts when saying what we believe about the organization.

Nah. But if you are going to make a caustic statement, be prepared to back it up. If you're unwilling, why come to a discussion forum?

Take the above statement: "Masonry is Social Engineering".

1) It is said with the tone and context that 'Social Engineering' is an evil thing.

2) It is said by someone that has had an obvious agenda - that Masons are evil capitalists that are trying to impose such a system for their own personal gain.

3) It is said by someone that has given the impression that he is here to make a statement, not pursue the truth.

So, given those circumstances, it's fair to skip some of the foreplay, and move a few steps ahead in the debate.

I don't blame you for getting defensive when you are named as pedophiles and the like but as far as alot of what is brought up you may be a little more allowing before attacking as to be fair.

'Fair' has nothing to do with it.

If you are presented with a statement that you know to be false, you are justified in bringing it to light in a debate. If you are presented with an assertion that seems to contradict a fact you know, you are justified in asking for proof.

Asking for proof does not constitute attacking a poster.

Originally posted by Hobbes
Social engineering falls into two catagories:

1) Political Science - An attempt to influence popular behavior on a large scale.

So then... if you mean the first case, how so? The values and ideals of Freemasonry are our own, and are not imposed upon society around us.

I wouldn't call A Belief in a Supreme Being your own belief. A belief in a supreme being is a belief which has been imposed upon society. Perhaps you were unknowingly indoctrinated into a false belief in a god by society around you. No doubt you impose your belief in a supreme being upon the people around you simply by believing that a supreme being actually exists.

You do believe in a supreme being don't you Hobbes?

[edit on 7-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
I wouldn't call A Belief in a Supreme Being your own belief. A belief in a supreme being is a belief which has been imposed upon society.

So... are you asserting that Freemasonry is imposing deific belief on the world?

You do realize that organized religion easily predates Freemasonry, right? We didn't start that...

And we aren't trying to 'convert' anyone to that way of thinking. Can you produce anyone that believes in a Supreme Being because Freemasonry made him think that way?

Perhaps you were unknowingly indoctrinated into a false belief in a god by society around you.

I can say with absolute certainty that that's not the case.

And if that were true for all mankind, there would be one world religion.

No doubt you impose your belief in a supreme being upon the people around you simply by believing that a supreme being actually exists.

Um, no. Sorry... it doesn't work that way.

A person doesn't share and impose their beliefs based on mere proximity.They have to proselytize... and Freemasonry, as an organization, does not.

You do believe in a supreme being don't you Hobbes?

I do. How is that relevant? I'm not looking to 'convert' you, am I?

lol yeah this is exactly what im talking about. But i supppose that you will always have those that are for and those that are against such things as Masonry. Id love to thank you all for expressing your opinions on this thred and its always very refreshing to see people speak out on what they believe and dont believe.