Crocodile Hunter - Steve Irwin is Dead

Originally posted by mojo4sale

Originally posted by what_if_we_could
i agree that it is sad, but he should have known that someday, somehting was going to go wrong.....not to mention, he endangered the life of his child for entertainment....so maybe it was karma

We should all know that at some time in our lives something will go wrong. Should Sir Edmund Hillary have never climbed Everest because it was dangerous, should the American pioneers have stayed at home because it was dangerous, could go on forever. How boring our lives it would be without these people with adventerous spirits to lift us up throughout history.
As for endangering his child, it was nowhere near as dangerous as the footage showed, as most Australians would acknowledge, it was done to death in the media here and explained by Steve and the cameraman that the camera angle caused the croc to look at lot closer than it was. That said Steve acknowledged that if he'd had his time again he may not have done it.
To say his death was karma is almost as daft as saying he was begging for it.

Btw Ox will be watching the box today, i think the memorial is being televised live from Australia zoo, loved your tribute. Have a good one.

i think its a little daft to compare steve to Sir Edmund Hillary or the American pioneers...they were great peices of our history...the croc hunter was purely for entertainment...

Mojo the memorial will be televised around the world.. I'm tivo'ing it... so..

And.. He didnt endanger the life of his son... The camera angles made it look so.. and his manager has said that on national tv... This is proven fact..

And Steve wasnt just "entertainment" he was an educator.. perhaps you didnt get that from his shows... but that's what he was doing in his own way..

So sayin someone is begging to die when swimming with a creature that is known to be 99.9% of the time gentle that has caused maybe only one or two deaths in 70 yrs isnt Daft. Right.

And yes i would compare him with those people throughout history who have shown an adventurous spirit, lived life to the fullest, took risks to educate and entertain and protect.

Edit to add : yeh Ox just listening to john williamson singing true blue as i write. I'm not teary, really im not.

[edit on 19/9/06 by mojo4sale]

Yeah Matey I hear ya.. Did you see my tribute that I made to him with True Blue... If you can get through it without shedding a tear then you have a heart of stone..

If you havent seen it let me know and I'll post the link

Originally posted by mojo4sale
So sayin someone is begging to die when swimming with a creature that is known to be 99.9% of the time gentle that has caused maybe only one or two deaths in 70 yrs isnt Daft. Right.

And yes i would compare him with those people throughout history who have shown an adventurous spirit, lived life to the fullest, took risks to educate and entertain and protect.

Edit to add : yeh Ox just listening to john williamson singing true blue as i write. I'm not teary, really im not.

[edit on 19/9/06 by mojo4sale]

ok, your entitled to your opinion, and im entitled to mine...im sorry...i didn't mean to piss you off

Originally posted by what_if_we_could
i think its a little daft to compare steve to Sir Edmund Hillary or the American pioneers...they were great peices of our history...the croc hunter was purely for entertainment...

I tend to agree with you on the Hillary thing, but Steve wasn't just for entertainment. He did actually care about conservation, after all, without it he would be out of a job, and used entertainment as the medium of his message.

And for those who keep trying to use turn my anti-Steve argument against Brockie...

Have you got young children? Do you live in the bush?

Can my son drive a car? No. Can he go find a deadly snake? Yes.

Will these facts remain true for another decade? Yes.

So for the next ten years I will do what my parents did for me. I will teach my kids to love and respect nature, to enjoy it and to be aware in it. That what is beautiful can kill if you are careless or downright stupid. I will teach them that snakes are protected species and deserve to lie on rocks and sun themselves without being disturbed.

That the bush is someone else's backyard and should be treated as such.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Have you got young children? Do you live in the bush?

Yes i have and yes i did and i was taught how to handle snakes in case i ever needed to do , which i did on more than one occasion. And as i said before both my Grandfather and Mike a CSIRO scientist taught me how to pick up a snake by the tail, which is the method they always used when they didnt have other means at hand, which is one of the things you have criticised Steve for.

And a quick word on the tribute that has just finished on the ABC here, well all i can say is

CRIKEY what a life.

Originally posted by what_if_we_could
ok, your entitled to your opinion, and im entitled to mine...im sorry...i didn't mean to piss you off

No worries mate, no hard feelings, you are entitled to your opinion.

The thing with Steve as just shown on the memorial tribute on t.v, repeated over and over by people from all walks of life was that he was real. It wasnt put on for show or to make a quick buck, what you saw is what you got.
And though i knew that he did alot of work behind the scenes for conservation, until now i didnt realise just how much that was.

I caught half of Steve`s memorial this morning before i had to go to work,WOW i was going from smiling/laughing to tears especially hearing Steve`s mate Wes talk about his freindship with him.

Kevin Costner`s words also were spot on

Actor Kevin Costner said Irwin put himself "out there" for everyone to see.

"He was fearless," said Costner in the video tribute.

"He let us see who he was. That is being brave in today's society."

scorce

[edit on 20-9-2006 by gps777]

Look, clearly I am not going to convince you that Steve was a bad example and you will never convince me that he was at least a harmless idiot and at best a man to be followed.

But, I'll take you back to my words and your response.

Originally posted by mojo4sale

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Have you got young children? Do you live in the bush?

Yes i have and yes i did

Not DID you live in the bush. DO you live in the bush NOW with your young children?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Not DID you live in the bush. DO you live in the bush NOW with your young children?

I did with my oldest daughter until she was 6 and my twins were 2, we then moved to the city for work opportunities which is where i am now with my 4th daughter, help!!. My youngest hasnt experienced the bush yet but as soon as shes old enough i hope to. Ive had enough of city life.
While we were living outside of Alice i taught my kids the same things i was taught regarding snakes, scorpions, lizards and other potential nasties that i was taught.
I spent the first 12 yrs of my life watching my grandfather and CSIRO guys handling these animals and on most occasions they used the same procedures that i saw Steve Irwin using.
Myself and my younger sister DID grow up in the bush, without fences, miles from any emergency services so we WERE taught how to look after ourselves.

This is were we grew up , this was my grandfathers cattle station before the govt purchased it from him, they then made him the head park ranger there if your interested.

www.northaustraliaholidays.com...

www.ozoutback.com.au...



Here is an excerpt from Hansard regarding my Grandfather during a debate on naming the road from Alice Springs to Simpsons Gap after him after he had passed away.

Bob, in 1950, left the police force and purchased Simpson’s Gap Station. One day, Bob was mustering cattle when his horse fell
on him and injured his back to such an extent that it was 12 months before he could move freely and, certainly, he was unable to
ride a horse again. He decided to sell the station to the federal government, who turned it into a national park. Bob was offered
the position of Curator in Charge and then became a member of the Reserves Board, resulting in him being one of the first rangers
in the Northern Territory.

So trust me when i say i have had a lot of experience with wildlife, particularly venemous snakes as we used to collect them for the CSIRO as well as many other kinds of wildlife and Flora. I have no problems with your opinion of Steve Irwin, your entitled to it, the only thing i took exception too was your attempt to state that the way he handled snakes as a bad influence on children. In that you are wrong. Thats all.

And there we differ as well.

You see, I don't consider myself to be wrong when it comes to the method of handling venemous snakes. I consider Steve to have been wrong, I consider you to be wrong.

Perhaps this is an age/time/place thing.

You were taught by your grandfather (Who taught him?). You were also taught by a CSIRO guy.

I was taught by my father (who grew up in the mallee) and by my best friend's father (who was a park ranger) and by various scientists visiting my school. All my life the message was this: ALWAYS behind the jaws, NEVER by the tail.

For this single reason: No snake you have behind the jaws can ever bite you.

I wonder: how old are you (I'm early-30s) and how old were your teachers? Do you have a different perspective on this because of your age, or possibly theirs? Is this a case of "generational knowlege shift"? (to go back to my Brocky evidence, look at how motorsport safety has changed over time. So have procedures for handling dangerous wildlife.)

For example: It used to be procedure to treat a snake bite by applying a tourniquet or sucking out the poison (or both). Both treatments have been massively discredited. The second method is a sure way to guarantee you die before your friend and the first...The last time my mother treated a venemous snake bite victim, she spent more time treating the complications from the tourniquet than she did the snake bite.

As for experience. I spent my childhood variously in the Victorian Alps and on Granite Downs Station (and visiting my granparents in the Victorian Mallee).

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

You were taught by your grandfather (Who taught him?).

Experience and 60 yrs in the bush.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

ALWAYS behind the jaws, NEVER by the tail.

For this single reason: No snake you have behind the jaws can ever bite you.

If you have the means at hand to hold the snake firmly behind the jaw with a pole, stick etc while you reached down to grab it behind the jaw. If not the tail always worked for us when we were out looking for specimens. We used to go looking for them mostly at night around rabbit warrens where the spinifex grass could sometimes be as high as your knee, the Bloke from the CSIRO (Mike Gillam) would walk along in front of the landrover and as soon as he spotted a snake would reach down as it took off to escape grab it by the tail hold it up at arms length and bag it, if it were a particularly big one my grandad would help him bag it. Yes they did attempt to strike, i never saw one succeed. The largest i ever caught on my own was a six foot king brown female. I used a hooked pole. I knew my limitations.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

I wonder: how old are you (I'm early-30s) and how old were your teachers? Do you have a different perspective on this because of your age, or possibly theirs? Is this a case of "generational knowlege shift"? (to go back to my Brocky evidence, look at how motorsport safety has changed over time. So have procedures for handling dangerous wildlife.)

Im 41. Dont think so, maybe its just a case of different strokes for different folks. It was obviously the way Steve had been taught to handle snakes also, so there is obviously some precedent for the different procedures used. Though my grandfather was never bitten Mike had been a number of times though never when out with us, i think mostly when handling them prior to or after milking.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

As for experience. I spent my childhood variously in the Victorian Alps and on Granite Downs Station (and visiting my granparents in the Victorian Mallee).

Lovely country. A good friend of mine has just purchased a pub in outback Vic at a little place called Wichyproof. I think thats how its spelt.
We'll just have to agree to disagree i guess. Have a good one.

Mojo.. I finally was able to sit down with my friends and watch Steve's memorial service.. There wasnt a dry eye in the house.. It was a fantastic way to honour a great man.. He really did change our world.. You see.. One person can make a difference..

I don't agree that one person changed the world... If not for a TV show with production crew, His wife, father.... Everyone in his life helped make him what he was.

I agree he was a great man, just disagree one person can change the world.. You may see only one, hardly anyone acts alone.

Steve was involved in more than his Croc feedings..
He was involved in massive conservation projects.. buying up huge masses of land that were cow paddocks.. worn and weathered.. and he would plant thousands and thousands of trees on them, to repopulate the area with wildlife.. where the wildlife could go and be safe and free in a natural habitat.. That's how one man changes the world..

Look outside the box mate..

He would have not been the person he was, with out the influence of others.

So that means he didnt change our world just because he was influenced by others?
I have some news for you.. we are ALL influenced by others and their actions.. babies in the womb are learning, hearing, understanding.. thats influence.. just an example

That is my point.

That why one person can not change the world IMO. They are always being influenced.

While I was standing in line last night at WalMart, I couldn't help but notice that "The National Inquirer" has pictures of Irwin just before his death. Two of his swimming in the proximity of the stingray and another clearly showing the barb protruding from his chest.

They'll be on the internet soon, if they aren't already. I couldn't find them myself.

[edit on 2006/9/23 by GradyPhilpott]