Masons exposed by French media on Clearstream

Dear fellows,

there is nothing more harmful to a secret society than exposing their objectives and members. i strongly advise you to read the "Black List" from Cristina Borjesson as well as Clearstream: the "black box" from Denis Robert.

huge scandal in France at the moment around Clearstream and the masons...

keep exposing them...as well as other evil ones...LOL...this is the best you can do to deny ignorance.

i am sure this thread will be flourished by angry masons but isn t it part of the game to tolerate critics?...

Edit: All caps title.



[edit on 2-9-2006 by intrepid]

Originally posted by rougevif

Dear fellows,

there is nothing more harmful to a secret society than exposing their objectives and members. i strongly advise you to read the "Black List" from Cristina Borjesson as well as Clearstream: the "black box" from Denis Robert.

huge scandal in France at the moment around Clearstream and the masons...

keep exposing them...as well as other evil ones...LOL...this is the best you can do to deny ignorance.

i am sure this thread will be flourished by angry masons but isn t it part of the game to tolerate critics?...

rougevif,

Your goal here seems not to expose Masons or save the souls of the poor hell-bound members of the fraternity, but rather to make Masons angry. You say as much in your post. Why is that? What have Masons done to you that you need to try and "get back" at them. That's really not what this forum is about and luckily for you I'm not a Moderator, else you'd be glaring at one of those pretty "warning" tickets. Perhaps even two by now.

That being said, allow me to make something abundantly clear to you;

You don't have enough lead in your pencil to anger me.

On the contrary I find you (and your kind) incredibly amusing, otherwise I'd just go away.

Further, I've seen no examples of the other Masons on this list being angry with you over any of the other nonsense you've posted. It appears you post some far-fetched, half-baked dribble and it gets shot down, so you simply start another thread from a slightly different angle, all the while utilizing the same agenda. Perhaps I'm missing something. But I doubt it.

So-called "expose's" of Masonry have existed since Masonry itself was organized. Somehow, though, we're still around, so what makes you think the above information will bring Freemasonry to her knees?

Besides, how do you know the information being extolled above is TRUE? Could not the authors themselves be lying? People do lie, you know. Do you know them personally? Do you know anything about their character? Their motives?

I'm curious to know.

So instead of the above suggestion that we read something, why don't you post some information from what you've read (uhm, you HAVE read it haven't you??????) and start some actual discussion on the topic.

Otherwise your statements above are roughly the equivalent of me saying:

O.K. everyone. Listen up. Masons really aren't evil and you should educate yourselves on the subject. I suggest you read "Freemasons for Dummies" by my friend Chris Hodapp

www.dummies.com...

and "The Idiot's Guide to Freemasonry" by my friend S. Brent Morris, 33rd Degree G.C.,

www.srmason-sj.org...

These will explain how Freemasonry works and you'll understand that we're really a heck of a bunch of nice guys! Really.

[shrug]

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Appak]

Well Appak,
You may be onto something:

In 2005, an investigative judge received anonymous letters with extensive Clearstream accounts information and records. Some of these accounts seemed to belong to Nicolas Sarkozy, the French Interior Minister and a formidable rival of French President Jacques Chirac and his protege, Dominique de Villepin, the Prime Minister of France. Further, the accounts were supposed to be the home of illegal bribe money, tied to a secret arms deal with Taiwan. As the ensuing investigation showed, the records were obtained from Denis Robert under false pretenses by a Clearstream "insider" who had claimed he could help him with his investigation, but really worked for a French intelligence agency. The investigation also shows the documents were falsified and Nicolas Sarkozy was cleared. In a later development, Dominique de Villepin is now under scrutiny for having allegedly ordered an investigation of Nicolas Sarkozy by French intelligence in order to discredit him and eliminate a political opponent. Some even claim that the falsification of the Clearstream records and the anonymous letters were engineered by Matignon

It would seem, rougevif, that once again you played up something completely worthless as monumental news. Again I ask you, how does this implicate mass Masonic corruption? Where does this show that the Masonic body as a whole is evil and of criminal intent? You've got nothing, and yet you go on. I just don't understand. Did a Freemason touch you as a small child? Show me on the doll where he touched you.

Dear all,

here are some interesting links. Everybody in france knows that Jean Louis Gregorin is a famous mason (great friend of henry kissinger), cf. Grand orient de France (unless you have no connection with them)...gotcha....

for the whole story...please go to the link below:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4965734.stm

www.strategic-road.com/pays/analysis/060606_political_industrial_implications_clearstream_scandal.htm

www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=502&language_id=1

As usual, anyone interested for more sources are welcome to message me in private.

for the defenders of the faith (Masons), Denis Robert has been cleared on ALL his trials with clearstream.

I don t need books to know more about masons than I do. I wasn't touched but this is funny how proper masons are not aware (sometimes) about their own kind...

My kind would be hard to define, but i am sick of collectors on the behalf of the faith...

Originally posted by rougevif

Dear all,

here are some interesting links. Everybody in france knows that Jean Louis Gregorin is a famous mason (great friend of henry kissinger), cf. Grand orient de France (unless you have no connection with them) ...gotcha...

I have no connection with the Grand Orient of France. In 1877 they withdrew the requirement that their members believe in a Supreme Being, thus breaking an ancient landmark of Freemasonry. Legitimate Grand Lodges withdrew recognition of them. In other words, they are not considered by legitimate Masons to even BE Masons.

...gotcha....

for the whole story...please go to the link below:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4965734.stm
www.strategic-road.com/pays/analysis/060606_political_industrial_implications_clearstream_scandal.htm
www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=502&language_id=1

What does this have to do with Freemasonry as an organization?

As usual, anyone interested for more sources are welcome to message me in private.

I'll pass. Thanks for offering, but if the info isn't earth-shattering enough for you to go to the trouble of pasting it, I'd rather not communicate with you personally.

I don t need books to know more about masons than I do.

Right. We'd hate for you to know more than you do.

I wasn't touched but this is funny how proper masons are not aware (sometimes) about their own kind...

I think that can be said of any human being.

My kind would be hard to define,

If you say so.

but i am sick of collectors on the behalf of the faith...

I don't even know what that means. What is a "collector on the behalf of the faith?" Is English, by chance, a second language to you? I'm not asking that as in insult, it's just that many of your sentences are incoherent and I'm wondering if it's a translation problem.

how can you say you have no connections with the grand orient de France which is the most important and influent in france.

then i guess you are not really a mason...you are suppose to defend yourself otherwise this is too easy. but you are doing good don t worry you are a good soldier.

hope you are not going to be in the next batch to Iraq, i guess not?

you must have paid to avoid military i suppose.

The Grand Orient of France is irregular by masonic standards, as Appak stated. When he points this out to you you insult him.

You know nothing about freemasonry AND are rude.

Are you MrNECROS?

Originally posted by rougevif
how can you say you have no connections with the grand orient de France which is the most important and influent in france.

Important and influent [sic] to WHOM? Not to any legitimate Freemason.

Again, I restate what I said above. The legitimate Grand Lodges in most of the world DO NOT recognize the GOF and haven't since the 1870's. It's as simple as that. I have no connection with the Grand Orient because my Grand Lodge does not consider them to be legitimate Masonry. It would be a Masonic offense, punishable by expulsion for me to communicate with a member of the so-called Grand Orient.

I realize you've already made up your mind and do not wish to see actual facts regarding the matter, but just for $#*%'s and grins here's a link for you to read if you like.

You appear to believe anything Google brings up, I imagine you'll bite on anything Wikipedia has to offer:

en.wikipedia.org...

then i guess you are not really a mason...

Aw, now you've gone and hurt my itty bitty wittle feelings.

you are suppose to defend yourself otherwise this is too easy.

Defend myself against what? Ludicrous accusations and incoherent dribble from the likes of YOU?

Puh-leez!

but you are doing good don t worry you are a good soldier.

Your condescending tone says a whole lot about your maturity, or rather the lack thereof. Keep up the good work.

hope you are not going to be in the next batch to Iraq, i guess not?
you must have paid to avoid military i suppose.

Ah, there we have it folks. The ad hominem attack that little guys like rougevif and his ilk are so famous for.

Nice one rougevif, what are you about 16, maybe 17?

what is a legitimate mason if the grand orient de france is not it is one of most ancient institution your organisation has.

so did you do your military duty?

for my maturity i am not sure which index are you refering to, but if we refer to degree and salary i am sure you would be mind boggled by my modest person.

still the same lame arguments...

wikipedia is not my bible... nor google...

but hey...any source of information is good as long as they expose you isn t it???

keep deaming and you will become someone...

Originally posted by rougevif
what is a legitimate mason if the grand orient de france is not it is one of most ancient institution your organisation has.

Are you not listening? They are not part of our organization. They chose... long ago... to go off in a different direction.

so did you do your military duty?

We don't have a 'military duty' in America, at this time. There is no draft to dodge.

But, I suspect I know why he 'dodged' your question. You said this:

hope you are not going to be in the next batch to Iraq, i guess not?

you must have paid to avoid military i suppose.

Huh... now, doesn't that sound like a flat-out, off-topic insult, rather than a question seeking an answer?

for my maturity i am not sure which index are you refering to, but if we refer to degree and salary i am sure you would be mind boggled by my modest person.

Generally, in this context, when someone questions your maturity, they are questioning your ability to be an adult.

Given your lack of spelling and grammer, your lack of logic and reason, and your hate-filled rhetoric (and the above quote), it's easy to characterize you as immature. I wish that would change... it would make discussions with you much more interesting.

but hey...any source of information is good as long as they expose you isn t it???

No, not a false one.

Originally posted by rougevif
what is a legitimate mason if the grand orient de france is not it is one of most ancient institution your organisation has.

Freemasonry requires that a member believe in a supreme being (i.e. God). The Grand Orient stripped this requirement from it's membership many years ago and PRESTO other Masons ceased recognizing them as such. In other words, they may call themselves Masons, but other Masons around the world do not accept them into their meetings, will not even DISCUSS Masonic matters with them, etc.

They may be an old group, but a blatant violation of the Landmarks (viz. a belief in God) causes them NOT to be a part of "our organization."

so did you do your military duty?

What in the world does it have to do with anything? In the United States of America there is no "military duty" Joining the military is a choice. I opted to go to college and graduate school.

for my maturity i am not sure which index are you refering to, but if we refer to degree and salary i am sure you would be mind boggled by my modest person.

Your salary is of no interest to me. I'm saying that your behaving like a child. It's unbecoming and doesn't lend to good discussion on this (or any) list.

still the same lame arguments...

So you've noticed? Good then let's change that. It's really not too late.

wikipedia is not my bible... nor google...

Bully for you.

but hey...any source of information is good as long as they expose you isn t it???

Expose me for WHAT? What have I done to be exposed? Name ONE thing that I have done to be exposed!!!!!! Otherwise stop this silly garbage.

keep deaming and you will become someone...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Thank you so much for those kind words. My cup runneth under.

Appak & Hobbes,

Rougevif is just baiting you to get you angry, please don't bite and go and have a cup of tea or something.

Rougevif, if you are ever in Scotland, feel free to contact me and I'll show you places that Masons have donated to less well-off people e.g the local childrens home. I'll also show you thier fund raising events, which are regular here.

Or maybe go and speak to Mason's near you, after all you may find that you like them.

If you really must continue to attack thier culture, at least get some really creditable sources and information beforehand, because it'll just make you look silly when they prove you wrong.

Originally posted by Pictnation
Appak & Hobbes,

Rougevif is just baiting you to get you angry, please don't bite and go and have a cup of tea or something.

Thanks Pictnation! I spend a lot of time traveling and consequently in hotel rooms, so I've gone back and read a lot of the really old posts (from a few years back) on this forum. You're exactly right.

In fact Rougevif is just one of MANY like him who've come onto this list, tried to start trouble, was repeatedly proven wrong, cried "Mason attack! They're ganging up on me!" then picked up his proverbial toys and went home.

There were many before him, there'll be many after him.

Funny thing is, if it weren't for him and his ilk, there'd be practically no discussion on the S.S. Forum. Occasionally a member tries to come up with a new topic, but the thread is still-born. Then from time to time one *does* come up, a bit of wild speculation takes place and then the thread dies of it's own accord.

If it weren't for the constant (and irrational) hatred for Masons I don't know what we'd talk about.

In the mean time, rougevif is entertaining, is he not? His goal may be to make me angry, but he's failing miserably.

I couldn't possibly be angered by someone I think is so funny.

thank god there are masons that are intelligent and i am not aiming at them but I am just highlighting some objectives they have.

don't even try to categorise masons.

according to the number of U2U i receive i am raising a lot of interests.

this is funny also how masons all want to have the final word...don t you think.

if the things i am saying are so stupid why do people continue to react, post and read??? you are calling everybody stupid?

Originally posted by rougevif
thank god there are masons that are intelligent and i am not aiming at them but I am just highlighting some objectives they have.

Well, we've officially degenerated fully. First, it was the "elite" masons that had the agenda, then it was 32 degree, then 33rd, now we are just going to generalize the "intelligent" masons as those who have questionable objectives. Well done, you've come full round in your cop out.

don't even try to categorise masons.

Why not? You and your kind do that on here every day.

according to the number of U2U i receive i am raising a lot of interests.

You keep saying this. You realize it is simple to cut and paste what you are receiving. And I highly doubt it is as high as you claim. At least not out of interest. You understand that U2U's sent out of hatred and admonishment don't count, right? I would think if people had something they wanted to know, they would post their question before going directly to a source that seems to have no real documentation of anything. People that won't help themselves generally won't get real help from anyone anyway. From what you've posted, anyone that would take your word before seeking answers for themselves is most likely just as blinded and diluted by fallacy.

this is funny also how masons all want to have the final word...don t you think.

It's human nature. I am not a Mason, and I am stubborn to a fault. Has nothing to do with being a Mason. If you noticed, you had that last post on here, not a mason.

if the things i am saying are so stupid why do people continue to react, post and read???

Probably because the things you are saying are stupid, and entirely without merit. Not being a mason, I cannot be accused of being biased and "a good soldier", I will therefore stand by my conviction based on the facts I have seen that Masons are a good organization, and should not be subjected to senseless diatribe and vicious attacks without good merit. I will stand by this cause as long as there is need to. We respond not for you, but for those few curious people that really are seeking truth. If we just ignored you like we should, those few lost souls might actually believe a lack of response equals agreement. And that would just be a shame.

Dear gentleman,

you are saying not to be part of the mason, but you stand clearly on their side.

i know, you are simply afraid or conditionned...or you are a mason. but one way or the other this is ok. you know i used to be catholic believing blindly all what was said during the mass (sorry just keeping on one dimension) now with age and experience i can relate things with one another, this is why i have realised this is just a philosophy for my life, like buddishm is.

it might be good for you to read through and consider yourself. what truth are you seeking?

Originally posted by rougevif
Dear gentleman,
you are saying not to be part of the mason, but you stand clearly on their side.
i know, you are simply afraid or conditionned...or you are a mason.

This is rich. I stand on the side of Masons so therefore I must be lying about not being one. I love it. Of course I stand clearly on their side. I've said as much. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with that. Afraid or conditioned? Seriously? Afraid of what?

Originally posted by EdenKaia
This is rich. I stand on the side of Masons so therefore I must be lying about not being one. I love it. Of course I stand clearly on their side. I've said as much. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with that. Afraid or conditioned? Seriously? Afraid of what?

EdenKaia,

At this point, Trolls are what *I* would be afraid of. The last several posts from that person have been pure baiting, not to mention arrogant, condescending and down right insulting. The sign of a lonely individual, to be sure.

Here you go rougevif,
As you obviously have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, perhaps your time would be more joyfully occupied at this site.
State of the art attention occupier

Have fun!

[edit on 5-9-2006 by EdenKaia]

As i said previously in the post, i am living on the other side of the planet so i cannot post 24/7 and i also work...i am glad you are systematically posting after me which means you are closely following what i am saying and you thoroughly make sure i can t post the last one.

I am not insulting the masons, i am severely criticising their objectives.

i think it is funny you would defend the masons systematically...but this is your right. I live in a country where this is forbidden to be a mason so i let you figure out which one...hehehe.

you can also condition yourself on this site www.disney.com

see you next post i suppose...