Mason Obession

Freemasons are members of a fraternity. Electricians are members of a profession.

Apples. Oranges. Do you not understand the difference?

If I want to I can find things not related to profesions, like pepsi drinkers, how many people do you see here that come and say, I'm a pepsi drinker??
Pepsi drinkers are very large in numbers on this planet, even the orange juice drinkers are larger in numbers, where are the people that eat at mecdonads?
hey i cant see any of them, if I search real hard I may fnd one or 2 but nothing like your numbers, they simply cant be undentifed, because they are not a group here on ATS.
Not even me with my avart, did I once say I drink pepsi?
None will come here in large numbers and say " hello there, first of all I am a jazz fan and I am part of a jazz club, I play jazz"
None will act like your group here on ats.

Freemasonry is a fraternity that is constantly being attacked by people like you. So members of the Masonic Fraternity defend it.

I know they come here intentionaly in a organasied fashon and first thing they say is "I am a free mason"
They dont even say hey my name is.......... most of the times, they just say"I am a mason"

Electricians are not a fraternity and aren't being viciously lied about.

There are large groups that are in conflict, like priests, satanists,atheists but yet none of them come here in large numbers and state "I am that"you may find a few but that is about it.
Hey atheism is not a religion,it's not a profesion, they may say I dont belive in god, but they never act like coming in to this forum and stating" first of all I am a atheist" you will see them around but if you look at their history of posts you wont find them in the same post on the same topic 99.9% and that is why they cant be labled as "something" the only ones that can be labled here on this forum is your group.





[edit on 3-9-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Hobbes
Ok, tell you what... start a conversation about a conspiracy amongst electricians. Get belief in your theory widespread enough that people take notice of it and choose to talk about it.

I guarantee you that electrician will rebutt your argument with the same sort of thing: "Umm, I'm an electrician, and WE don't do that sort of thing..."

C'mon Hobbes,

Get with the program.

Based on Pepsi's logic (:@@ if you did that, you've stated that you're an electrician, hence you have no credibility in an electrician debate, but are actually a PART of the electrician conspiracy in the first place.

Maybe we as Freemasons should step aside and let Pepsi's electricians defend Freemasonry. And while that's going on, who better than us to defend the electricians (and, what the heck, the shrubbers too while we're at it)

Pepsi,

Your argument here is ludicrous and this thread has degenerated to idiotic. Pepsi drinkers, electricians, bowlers, astronauts and morticians are not being talked about. Masons are.

Therefore Masons are responding.

If I respond to anti-Masonic dribble, why wouldn't I say "Hey, I'm a Mason" That lends credibility to what I say in that I actually BELONG to the organization. I've actually attended Masonic initiation ceremonies. I don't have to rely on Google-up, half-baked, speculation. I speak FIRST HAND.

Why? BECAUSE I'M A MASON.

And in reference to your statement about other groups. If Priests were being accused (as a group) of nefarious activities and there were a Priest on-line, I believe he'd jump in and say "Hey, I'm a Priest and we don't do that. Some Priests may have done that, but as an organization, we don't do that!"

As I said on another thread (or maybe it was this one, they're all running together), it appears you and people like rougeelf or whatever his name is, want the Masons to NOT post here in order that you may post wild untruths and remain unchecked.

Sorry to disappoint you. You spread lies about me, I'll refute it.

So will electricians and atheists if you start spreading manure about them. Try it and see.









[edit on 3-9-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Appak

Originally posted by Hobbes
Ok, tell you what... start a conversation about a conspiracy amongst electricians. Get belief in your theory widespread enough that people take notice of it and choose to talk about it.

I guarantee you that electrician will rebutt your argument with the same sort of thing: "Umm, I'm an electrician, and WE don't do that sort of thing..."

C'mon Hobbes,

Get with the program.

Based on Pepsi's logic (:@@

if you did that, you've stated that you're an electrician, hence you have no credibility in an electrician debate, but are actually a PART of the electrician conspiracy in the first place.

Maybe we as Freemasons should step aside and let Pepsi's electricians defend Freemasonry. And while that's going on, who better than us to defend the electricians (and, what the heck, the shrubbers too while we're at it)

Okay, here, I want you to sort out all the people that are gay on this forum, they too get bashed alot, and there are alot of gays, can you do that?
Hey I can pick out all the masons out, can you pick all the gay people out on the forum?
I'll show you what ever you want regarding statistics, and I'll show you none act like your brother masons on this forum.
None in the terms of procentage
You would beat them all at this aspect.
With all do respect for gays I dont have anything against them.

In fact I'll bet you for what you want that none of the users on this forum that are not free masons would have the procentage your felow masons have as similarity in large numbers.
None.
You can go pick out the politics forum
You can go pick out the ufo forum
The reptilians forum
the 911 forum
None will beat you to the procentage in large numbers as similarity, none, you are the largest group on ATS , congradulations.
In fact you are the only group acting like this on ats, like a union, which just proves my point.

rather than obsession which sounds king of freak, i would rather know (as they are not so numerous you have in the previous days noticed their quite absurd arguments) how do they feel about their mason status.

i used to have one in my neigborhood, he was able to shoot as the milkman as he was so afraid someone could see in his house. he was staying behind closed doors and blinds...

masons are useless if they are exposed...keep going pepsi drinkers and others...

they do not even recognise themselves how crazy is this?

you, masons, are so much fun. it seems like most of them are masons because they could achieve something by themselves...

Originally posted by pepsi78
Okay, here, I want you to sort out all the people that are gay on this forum, they too get bashed alot, and there are alot of gays, can you do that?
Hey I can pick out all the masons out, can you pick all the gay people out on the forum?

Where on ATS are gays being 'bashed alot'? Show me that, and then we can proceed...

In fact you are the only group acting like this on ats, like a union, which just proves my point.

What about the Knights of Columbus folks in this forum, as has been pointed out?

What about the Christians in the religious conspiracies forum? A search for 'we Christians' gets quite a few hits... how come they don't count?

What about these folks, 'experiencers' as they often call themselves here?

Funny thing... when you use absolutes like 'all' or 'every' or 'none'... all I have to do is produce a single contrary example, and you're proven wrong.

Originally posted by rougevif
i used to have one in my neigborhood, he was able to shoot as the milkman as he was so afraid someone could see in his house. he was staying behind closed doors and blinds...

Uh huh... if he stayed hidden behind closed doors and blinds, how do you know that he was a mason? Or what his motives were for hiding?

Why wasn't he arrested if he took a pot shot at the milkman?

Pretty big holes in your tale...

masons are useless if they are exposed...

Gah, now you sound like my wife.. *rimshot*

Exposed? Do you mean, like, admitting our membership publically? Being identified by name?

In what way are we rendered 'useless'? What can we no longer accomplish?

you, masons, are so much fun. it seems like most of them are masons because they could achieve something by themselves...

True. I am a mason because I could achieve something by my self... but can achieve much more when united with folks of the same mind.

Oh, or was that a typo on your part?

Where on ATS are gays being 'bashed alot'? Show me that, and then we can proceed...

Looks like you havent really looked around the forum.
There are plenty of posts about this.

What about the Knights of Columbus folks in this forum, as has been pointed out?

hey , I'm sure you outnumber them as a similarity

And them, you outnumber them by similarityes and I can prove it.
What about these folks, 'experiencers' as they often call themselves here?

Here to show you
From the post you linked.

Search
Australia signs up to New World Order in exhange of paying off it's debt! 26-4-2006 at 05:45 AM
Hello All ATS's 30-3-2006 at 08:24 PM
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Hello All ATS's 29-3-2006 at 04:54 AM
Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences 29-3-2006 at 12:42 AM
Hello All ATS's 29-3-2006 at 12:19 AM
Montauk reptilian/alien sketches 28-3-2006 at 11:50 PM
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Diversity


From heelstone who belives in ufos

Search
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dooooooods 11-5-2006 at 04:02 AM
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Life in prison for Moussaoui. 4-5-2006 at 12:22 AM

Can you show me at least one mason who posts like this guy?
Point, not all of them post on the same subject, the majority of them post on

diferent topics.
You wont find any where a procentage like the masons 99.9% of the masons here on ats have a stuning similarity.

Funny thing... when you use absolutes like 'all' or 'every' or 'none'... all I have to do is produce a single contrary example, and you're proven wrong.

I'm sure of the statistics, you outnumber any type of users brand here on ATS regarding similar posts.

Another thing.
since you cant come here and promote masonary because the mods dont alow it the only reason you would join this forum is to try to dissmiss all that is said about masonary, I dont see any reason other than that.
So if we are going to sustain 100 years from now that masonary is EVIL are you going to stay 100 years here just to disssmiss everything?
Since you sustain that nothing is true why wait 100 years just to contradict others?
It should be no problem for you since you sustain nothing is true, but yet again I have seen masons stick on to this section of the forum like a magnet, some of us go post some where else and then we come back and post in this section also, but not the masons,they stay here, it's like your an operator dude it must be your job



[edit on 3-9-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Okay, here, I want you to sort out all the people that are gay on this forum, they too get bashed alot, and there are alot of gays, can you do that?
Hey I can pick out all the masons out, can you pick all the gay people out on the forum?

No, and why would I? Why would I care? Why do you care so much about the Masons?

I'll show you what ever you want regarding statistics,

But I don't want statistics. NO ONE asked you for statistics. Know why? We don't care. It's pretty simple.

With all do respect for gays I dont have anything against them.

Neither do I and they have nothing to do with the topic (whatever the topic actually is...or WAS)

None will beat you to the procentage in large numbers as similarity, none, you are the largest group on ATS , congradulations.

Thank you. Now can we go on with an actual conspiracy discussion and end this nonsense?

In fact you are the only group acting like this on ats, like a union, which just proves my point.

Oh for crying out loud. Yes, Masons in the Secret Societies section post mainly on Masonry. We've established that LONG ago. Beyond that there is no "point" just continued dribble.

You've really gone off the deep-end Pepsi.

Why do you say Pepsi has gone off the deep end just because he has made a good point. If your only intent for being a member of ATS is to gather your fellow Mason brothers and attempt to squash any discussion or exploration of the roots or beliefs of Masons then you are interferring with the threads in general. The trend seems to be to step in and overlook any questions raised about symbolic meaning or history of your group and instead to personally attack the intellegence of any poster who suggests Masonary might not be what it seems to be. Any group which operates in secret codes and secret meanings is going to be scrutinized by members on a conspiracy board.

Do you have no other interests to talk about on ATS? Are you here for one reason only, to divert threads which might shine some light on what your beliefs may be. When I posted I was simply describing some insights I had on possible meaning behind some of your symbols. Instead of a discussion of the information I presented you all jumped in and changed the subject immediatly.

If you wanted to be a member of this website and explore conspiracy related topics you would do so. Instead you seem to exist here for one reason. To protect the interest and secrecy of the Masons. I suppose this is OK as long as we see it as such. This devalues your input in my opinion because your posts are serving a purpose, not sharing information or seeking to learn anything. The purpose being to protect the secrets and perpetuate the outward appearance of the organization.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Why do you say Pepsi has gone off the deep end just because he has made a good point.

What point has he made? That some Masons post predominantly on Masonic subjects? Why is this a point? He seems obsessed with this and I fail to understand why he (or anyone who's paying attention) should be surprised. It's not a conspiracy. Not by a long shot. People with a common interest posting on a common topic. [shrug]

If your only intent for being a member of ATS is to gather your fellow Mason brothers and attempt to squash any discussion or exploration of the roots or beliefs of Masons then you are interferring with the threads in general.

My intent is to tell the truth as I see it. Someone (rougevif) posts something I believe isn't true about Freemasonry, I post a message refuting it. Would it be better for posts to go unchecked? Should this board just be a lot of posts that make statements without any actual discussion?

Would be pretty boring.

The trend seems to be to step in and overlook any questions raised about symbolic meaning or history of your group and instead to personally attack the intellegence of any poster who suggests Masonary might not be what it seems to be. Any group which operates in secret codes and secret meanings is going to be scrutinized by members on a conspiracy board.

There can be no "scrutiny" if no one responds to what is said. Else it's simply random statements as I said above. Two sides. Pro. Con. Nothing new about that.

By the way, the word is "Masonry" not "Masonary" No second "a" That's not a slam at you in any way, so don't cry about it. There's simply no such word as "Masonary" If we're going to discuss it (which hopefully we are) it doesn't bode well for the conversation if we can't spell the topic of discussion correctly.

Do you have no other interests to talk about on ATS?

What's it to you? Why do you CARE if I have other interests. I've been a very active Mason for 25+ years. A search for some Masonic information led me here. Is there some ATS rule that I HAVE to post on other subjects just to make you happy? If so I missed the memo. [shrug]

Are you here for one reason only, to divert threads which might shine some light on what your beliefs may be.

To which beliefs do you refer? My belief in God? My belief in service and assistance to my fellow human beings which is reinforced by Masonry?

When I posted I was simply describing some insights I had on possible meaning behind some of your symbols. Instead of a discussion of the information I presented you all jumped in and changed the subject immediatly.

Help, help, I'm bein' repressed!

If you wanted to be a member of this website and explore conspiracy related topics you would do so.

Personally I've SEEN no conspiracy related topics. I've just seen

"The Masons secretly control the government, the Catholic Church and the West Nyack Bowling League, but low-level Masons are too stupid to know what's really going on in the organization they are so active in and we outsiders who've never met an actual Mason nor stepped inside a Masonic Lodge Hall know everything that they are doing and must enlighten them lest Lucifer, in the form of Albert Pike or (god forbid) Manly P. Hall, snatch their souls."

That's not conspiracy discussion. That's pathetic nonsense and as a Mason I resent the insinuation that I know nothing about my organization.

Plain and simple.

Instead you seem to exist here for one reason. To protect the interest and secrecy of the Masons.

Why are Masonic secrets, which affect you in absolutely NO WAY any of your business? Just because you think you have a right to know them? Newsflash! You don't.

Call Coca-Cola and ask for their soda formula. See how far you get.

But does not knowing the CC recipe make Coke an evil entity? (Granted it does some nasty things to ones stomach but you don't have to drink it)

Neither do you have to be involved with Masons who aren't bothering you. Or are they? What have Masons done to you? Have you ever been one? Do you know any personally? Have you ever attended a meeting of the Masonic fraternity?

I suppose this is OK as long as we see it as such.

Imagine my relief that you think it's OK

This devalues your input in my opinion because your posts are serving a purpose, not sharing information or seeking to learn anything.

If so, ignore me. I won't miss you, but I won't stop posting either. You seem to think that those who oppose Masonry are the only ones who should post here, now why is that?

BTW, I seek to learn plenty, but in doing so, I also seek to disclaim any blanket-statement untruths spoken about Freemasonry. Don't come on with the "I *know* this about "them" because...." Come on with discussion. "I heard such-and-such, could it be true? If so let's talk. If not, why not?" That's discussion. Believe it or not even you might learn something about the subject rather than simply try to teach all the time.

The purpose being to protect the secrets and perpetuate the outward appearance of the organization.

I can't argue with that, but it's important to note that while certainly there are some bad Masons (I've known a few) the "outward appearance" as you put it, is also reflected overall in the "inward appearance" Just because it has secrets, why do you insist it's evil? If you aren't a Freemason, how do you know for sure? Someone told you? Well, some is telling you otherwise now.

Who to believe?

You really want to know Masonic secrets? It's not that hard if you believe in a supreme being. Petition membership in a Lodge. Then the wild speculation falls by the way-side.


[edit on 3-9-2006 by Appak]

First of all I never said any such thing that Masonry is Evil.

And in a nutshell here is my point.
I stated "When I posted I was simply decribing some insights I had on possible meaning behind some of your symbols. Instead of a discussion of the info I presented you all jumped in and changed the subject"

You replied to the above with sarcasm and making fun of me with your response of "help, help, I'm being repressed"
That is exactly what I am talking about. Instead of remarking on the symbology I mentioned you made fun of me.

Appak, what do you think of the statement that Mason's worship a female deity?

Originally posted by interestedalways
You replied to the above with sarcasm and making fun of me with your response of "help, help, I'm being repressed"
That is exactly what I am talking about. Instead of remarking on the symbology I mentioned you made fun of me.

It was not my intent to hurt your feelings and I humbly apologize.

Appak, what do you think of the statement that Mason's worship a female deity?

I think very little of the statement interestedalways, and here is why.

That is one of the "blanket statements" I referred to above and anyone making such a statement is displaying a fundamental lack of understanding of Freemasonry.

Freemasonry demands that it's members believe in a "supreme being"

Freemasonry does NOT define what or who this "supreme being" is. That is left to the personal choice of the individual Freemason and is not dictated by the organization itself. It is not even suggested.

For example, I happen to be a Trinitarian Christian. I worship my Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ. I have several Freemason friends who are Jewish and a couple who are Muslim. One who is a Unitarian Universalist, which really isn't a "religion" per se, at all.

They have differing beliefs about the "supreme being" but this is not discussed in Freemasonry, nor is it debated. Instead we meet as "Brothers" who believe in "God" (no matter how we, as members of different faith communities, may understand God)

I've never run across a Freemason who claimed that he sees the "supreme being" as being a female (mainly because such topics aren't brought up in the Lodge) but if I were to, I'd be of the opinion that it was his personal business what he believes. As such it's not my part to try to persuade him otherwise, nor is it Freemasonry's part to define my "God" for me.

That's the very basis of Freemasonry being a "brotherhood of all human-kind" To quote from ritual

(secret stuff comin' at 'ya)

"By exercise of Brotherly Love we are taught to regard the whole human species as one family--the high and low, the rich and poor--who, created by one Almighty Parent, and inhabitants of the same planet, are to aid and protect each other. On this principle Freemasonry unites men of every country, sect, and opinion, and conciliates true friendship among those who might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance"

--from the Entered Apprentice ("First") Degree of Freemasonry.

That truly sums up what Masonry is all about.

Well, you did actually say something instead of playing dodgeball.

A breath of fresh air, I must say.

I will concede from this discussion for a while as I really don't have anything to add or to prove or to learn.

I should also mention that it was kind of you to apologize for "hurting my feelings", but if you read what I had said I in it's proper context you would note that I was referring to your use of sarcasm as a way of ignoring questions and diverting statements not that I took personally what you said or that my feelings were involved!

[edit on 3-9-2006 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by interestedalways
I will concede from this discussion for a while as I really don't have anything to add or to prove or to learn.

Up to you. But did you learn anything from my post regarding Freemasonry's position on a "supreme being"? If so, it was worthwhile for me to post it.

Oh, of course there will be those who will still point their fingers and say "Masons don't know who they're *really* worshipping. They're secretly worshipping Satan" (This despite the fact that "worship" is a conscious act)

I learned something, I would say.
You mentioned some folks saying Masons worshipped Satan. Actually I thought it was Lucifer, not Satan, who was suggested as being a supreme being in the higher eshelon of Masonry. I understand some believe Lucifer to be a misunderstood kind of Being and that the rest of us were scared into staying away from Him/Her and that power was to be gained by understanding the true meaning of Lucifer.

As far as the condition of believing in a Supreme Being of your choice, some organizations suggest the idea of such a freedom and as time goes by slowly incorporate thier own agenda into the mix, leaving the stubborn ones by the wayside while only the ones who conform or "come to see the light" of the true Supreme Being reach the upper levels.

Originally posted by interestedalways
I learned something, I would say.
You mentioned some folks saying Masons worshipped Satan. Actually I thought it was Lucifer, not Satan, who was suggested as being a supreme being in the higher eshelon of Masonry. I understand some believe Lucifer to be a misunderstood kind of Being and that the rest of us were scared into staying away from Him/Her and that power was to be gained by understanding the true meaning of Lucifer.

Exactly right. The ironic part is, Lucifer is mentioned a couple of times by Albert Pike in his book "Morals & Dogma of the Ancient & Accepted Rite" and both times mentioned in context of who (or rather "what") Lucifer really was and not today's version of "Satan" like some fundamentalist Christians like to think.

Unfortunately for Masons, fundamentalists and others, look at the Index of "M&D" find the word "Lucifer" read a couple of lines (particularly the line on page 321 that says "Lucifer, the Light-bearer!") and they say "There it is! Masons seek LIGHT! They worship Lucifer!" (It gets more entailed, but you get my meaning)

The funniest part is, Pike's book was written for members of the Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction of the U.S.A) of Freemasonry. No one else (Mason or non-Mason) On top of which he was writing his personal interpretations at at times quoting extensively from other sources (sometimes named, sometimes not) His book is not the "Masonic Bible" as some call it and even in the introduction he himself stated that everyone is free to reject anything contained in it that he feels to be untrue.

This all being said, "Lucifer" is NEVER mentioned in Masonic Ritual. I can attest to the personally, having received all of the Symbolic Lodge Degrees (Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, Master Mason) as well as all of the Scottish Rite Degrees (in Pike's Southern Jurisdiction, U.S.A.) and all of the York Rite Degrees.

Not ONE mention of "Lucifer" (not even in context of who, or rather "what" Lucifer really was...Venus)

As far as the condition of believing in a Supreme Being of your choice, some organizations suggest the idea of such a freedom and as time goes by slowly incorporate thier own agenda into the mix, leaving the stubborn ones by the wayside while only the ones who conform or "come to see the light" of the true Supreme Being reach the upper levels.

I suppose that's possible in some organizations, but as stated before, I've received ALL the degrees and my personal faith is never questioned or even mentioned in Masonry.

Many conspiracy theorists like to perpetuate the idea that there are "secret upper levels" of Freemasonry where the evil truly resides, but it simply isn't true. Certainly there are bad Freemasons (we're human beings afterall) but Freemasonry as an organization simply isn't the Satanic force some misguided individuals make it out to be.

Would you please share some insight on the meaning of Venus. I have no understanding of planatary representatives of higher meaning. How is it that cosmic beings as in planets and stars hold the key to unlocking truth as to the underlying knowledge of deities. Is it that the energy created by the course of planets are energy of the higher life forms active on this planet? Is it that the "Angels" come from certain planets?

I've read about Grandmother Spider who brought eggs from Venus to seed mankind here on earth. I really need help with this to further my spiritual journey, if you don't mind.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Would you please share some insight on the meaning of Venus. I have no understanding of planatary representatives of higher meaning. How is it that cosmic beings as in planets and stars hold the key to unlocking truth as to the underlying knowledge of deities. Is it that the energy created by the course of planets are energy of the higher life forms active on this planet? Is it that the "Angels" come from certain planets?

I've read about Grandmother Spider who brought eggs from Venus to seed mankind here on earth. I really need help with this to further my spiritual journey, if you don't mind.

Venus is named for the Roman godess of love and beauty, but beyond that we're out of my realm of expertise. As I said, there's no real connection in Masonry (degree-wise) Some Masonic students do study such things, and some Masonic writers have incorporated this study into their works, it's not a part of Masonic degrees and something I've never paid much attention to.

Well there is a lot of info on Venus if you read Lucis Trust material or Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled. Venus is very prominant as symbolic of both Lucifer and Christ. It's complicated reading, though.

It is interesting how many Mason's aren't interested in the esoteric yet some are obsessed with it.