Mason Obession

As stated many MANY times before, the masons do not recruit. It is forbidden.

New candidates must ask to join, coming of their own free will and accord.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by zman


Skull and Bones is not Masonic (regardless of rougevif's claim), and admits only Yale seniors.
color=Green]Sorry Mr. Masonic Light but my wife was in a faternity in Jersey City and she was given the skull and cross bones , I know because she pinned me. Just to get the facts straight .Many Blessings .

Zman, many fraternities and sororities, if not all of them, use the skull and/or skull and crossbones as symbols. But your wife was not a member of the fraternity whose name is Skull and Bones, which exists only at Yale.

I also find it interesting that all these conspiracy folks are so obsessed with Skull and Bones while completely ignoring their rivals, Scroll and Key. Scroll and Key is also a semi-secret Yale senior society, but is wealthier than Skull and Bones, and less public.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by Masonic Light]

Sorry but she did belong to a faternity that had her become a skull and cross bones member. I know , like I said she pinned me. Many Blessings

Originally posted by zman


Sorry but she did belong to a faternity that had her become a skull and cross bones member. I know , like I said she pinned me. Many Blessings

I was talking about the Skull and Bones Society, which is a secret senior society at Yale University. I do not doubt that your wife received a skull and crossbones pin from her sorority at a NJ college, but am only trying to point out that's not what I'm talking about. I'm specifically referring to the Society known as Skull and Bones which exists only at Yale, is for Yale students only, and whose meeting place, called "The Tomb", is on the Yale campus.

A lot of these discussions around here are simply pointless because people on both sides have not done their homework.

There is reems of material out there critical of masonry and until people read it and study it they cannot articulate for either side.

I find it laughable that masons present themselves as so innocent when members of theirs have been involved in crime, coveted high positions in society and their fraternal nature means their elevation above outsiders.

The very nature of the organization itself pits members to a good degree against all outsiders. Furthermore the secretive nature of the organization and the levers of power would make even stupid people nervous about their intentions.

So many times these obvious issues are laughed off here and buried only to be endlessly rehashed like the truth can be forgotten or glossed over.

Then there is the obvious issue of whether Freemasonry is a religion or not? It has all the tenets of what a religion is yet it still denies that it is one.

I don't doubt for a second that some members of Freemasonry have been involved in crime, just like any other organisation. It has absolutely no bearing on the inherent goodness (or otherwise) of the Order. Like any organisation, it is composed of human beings, who are flawed creatures.

What is laughable to ME is that you expect people to somehow believe that the brotherhood is evil based purely on your conjecture, sweeping generalisations, and negative opinion.

It's all very well to say "do your research/homework" to your fellow ATSers, but it's obvious that the kind of homework YOU'VE been doing is a far cry from balanced fact-finding.

You are what you eat.

Roark, you're getting one of my WATS votes for that one... well said.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
There is reems of material out there critical of masonry and until people read it and study it they cannot articulate for either side.

99% of what I've seen is completely ludicrous, completely contradictory to my own experience as a member of the fraternity. How much drivel am I expected to read, before I'm allowed to comment?

Furthermore the secretive nature of the organization and the levers of power would make even stupid people nervous about their intentions.

Too easy... I'm just going to let that statement stand on it's own.

Then there is the obvious issue of whether Freemasonry is a religion or not? It has all the tenets of what a religion is yet it still denies that it is one.

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that Freemasonry is indeed a religion.

So what? Why would you care? What would be wrong with it being a religion?

Cug,

Again you said the Masons have something I want. Are you tripping?
Like what? Why would I want that you have? Any power you may possess with only be temporary because you misuse it by deeming yourself above the goyim.


I seek pure knowledge and pure truth and pure l alchemical tranformation
The Masons have taken bits and pieces of Divine Law and adapted it to thier own agenda.

But the mason's are themselves pawns, soon to be scapegoats.
The real power will find you expendable.

You want to be important and feel superior over the drones, false pride.

I am addressing this to roark who insists I am envious.

You, Cog no longer seek, that means you have been bought and sold. You should envy me who is free from affiliation of established programs relieving you of your inherent gift to explore and avoid man made establishments

I never insinuated that you were envious of anything. You've confused me with someone else, or misinterpeted me.

All I was addressing was the oft-bleated criticism that Freemasonry should be preaching its "sacred knowledge" to all and sundry, and the suggestion that Freemasonry is somehow in the wrong by not doing so.

The reason I introduced the French for Beginners analogy was to demonstrate a simple point: If you want to obtain knowledge, go and find it. The seeker of truth is exactly that - a seeker. To automatically expect an institution of learning to dump it all in your lap, unsolicited, is preposterous.

This is another area where Freemasonry differs from religion and Christianity. We do not proselytise. If we did, we would be condemned for evangelising, as Christians often are.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by Roark]

Cug, You are so far from the truth.

I have no desire to gain the knowledge the Masons think they have.

Anything Masons have revealed to them is available in other teachings.

The information was not native to Masons, nor is it exclusive to them

I prefer to learn truth by constant exploration, not by joining a club!

What do you propose I want that you have? I don't even respect you because of your arrogant attitude in thinking I envy you.

Personally I think I am closer to truth than you or you wouldn't have petty emotions of prideful thinking I am jealous of your mandated "truth'

You, my friend are a pawn and nothing more.

Do you even read other people's responses with more than a cursory glance?

You are a little confused, my friend.

I am not Cug. My tag is Roark, and I am not even remotely interested in discussing who is closer to the finish line in this "race for truth" you seem to be describing.

As you tell it, you're doing great. I'm happy for you. I'm not evangelising Freemasonry to you. Got it?

it seems that some people are still looking for themselves choosing some lame characters to embody themselves...make you choice fellows.

they are way more masons than i thought in here...

don t you find it surprising that they can go up to make this site delete some thread about the secret fraternity societies....hummm i guess why...

Originally posted by rougevif
don t you find it surprising that they can go up to make this site delete some thread about the secret fraternity societies....hummm i guess why...

Alright, alright... I'll bite.

Why do you think ATS deleted the fraternity secret thread at the behest of the masons, rather than that of the fraternities, as was reported?

Originally posted by rougevif
it seems that some people are still looking for themselves choosing some lame characters to embody themselves...make you choice fellows.

Are you referring to an avatar? You're clutching at straws now, mate. Grow up and post something of substance, or make room for someone who actually can.


[edit on 29-8-2006 by Roark]

it seems that the above well trained misinformation dogs are working good don t you think. you are speaking about substance but what is the substance of the masons. why on earth would you have obelisks flourishing in our towns, for architectural purposes?...no really

so i am going to be loud and clear...the masons objectives are evil...and they are using so many people you have no idea.

see you in heaven i suppose.

Dude, I'm not even speaking to you as "a Mason". I'm just talking to you as a human being who happens to be in the fraternity. Freemasonry is only a part of my life, and I've certainly got better things to do than go to enormous effort to spread misinformation for whichever dark master that you think I serve. One of the tenets of my fraternity is Truth, and I think it's a worthy one. I live for my principles, my family/friends and myself, not for some kind of puppetmaster-type character ripped straight out of the X-files.

Onto obelisks: Obelisks have been around for a lot longer than Feemasonry. There is nothing inherently evil about them anyway. It's a pointy thing made of stone, dude. Your inference to the contrary only makes you appear superstitious in an almost... medieval kind of way.

I also regret to inform you that your attempt to insult me by calling me a dog has failed. I went to Dhamma class this week, and I'm still in "loving kindness" mode.

Deny your ignorance, for your own sake.

Okay I only read the first page so forgive me if this has already been stated but i am getting a little tired of everytime a thread gets started it turns into a i am right and you are wrong kind of thing instead of an actual debate. Though I can see why when you start a debate not only do you state your topic but you also give reason to support your stance on the topic. That way it goes more smoothly.
Now if it were my post I probabaly would have said Why is everyone obsessed with masons ...........this is what I think
1. the debate about masons rages mainly from where it comes from and how it was started, maybe go into detail.
2. they have been many prominent people in the government who were mason, maybe give some names
3. Why are they so secretive, maybe explain why you think they cant be like every other club out there, I mean seriously if you werent hiding something why would you make some swear an oath to not talk about it.
So you get the point, but I am leaning mainly toward number 1 as the main reason they have so much obsession behind them.

Originally posted by Roark


I also regret to inform you that your attempt to insult me by calling me a dog has failed. I went to Dhamma class this week, and I'm still in "loving kindness" mode.

Man, you have much more patience than me. I'm not even sure that complete immersion in the Dharma could make me write a post as good as your responses have been on this thread. The World Honored One was known for his loving kindness and absolute compassion...but he never had to put up with this kind of crap!

It's all about blame, man.

Every person needs self-respect. Those who excel in life can look to their own accomplishments and feel a sense of accomplishment.

People who've never accomplished anything, have a psychological unmet need, and either attach themselves to someone else's glory (through racism, geneaology, and yes even fraternities) . . . or else they find someone to blame.

If they have no accomplishments, it must be someone's fault. Either its the Jews, or the Muslims, or the rich or the masons or all of them.

Conspiracy theory is great as a type of social critique; but it falls flat when it comes to addressing the reality that blaming others wont give you good government, it won't make you educated, or save you from the aftermath of a hurricane.

I salute any institution that encourages personal responsibility---be it the Navy, Freemasonry, scouting, or my church.

I'll just desposit my 2 pennies in here.

I live in Decorah IA, home of Luther College, an expensive college which is quite the place for the more well off people.

I have met quite a few masons, they were rings and have bumperstickers and sadly none of them have treated me like a human being while any normal average Joe treats me with respect.

That in it self is a red flag for me, I have not met ONE nice mason, it's like they look down upon us (but ofcourse I might just happen to run in the bad masons and not necesarilly the good ones.).

I am not jealous of them but I have considdered doing a little research on them to see what the fuss is all about, I personally follow many of the world's teachings and adjust them to fit me, I am quite attracted to Enki however and considder my self to have an allegiance with him.

I am also quite wary of people that are in cults, no matter if they are Christian, Muslim, Pagan, masons or Satanist, it makes me suspicious when they have mock sacrefices and run around waving swords and daggers.

I have nothing against a ritual here and there, but I feel that when these so called leaders meet and have complete control over their followers and that power can be used and abused to fit their own agenda.

BTW, do you, the masons, come here just to justify your believe/fraternity? or do you have other reasons like looking into any conspiracy theories that interest you?

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo

BTW, do you, the masons, come here just to justify your believe/fraternity? or do you have other reasons like looking into any conspiracy theories that interest you?

Personally, I enjoy a good (and honest) debate. Some ATS anti-Masons have fit into this category, but many are also off the wall and in left field, which leaves honest debate and rational critique impossible.

I do find it bizarre, though, that anyone could actually believe that my fraternity is either running the world, or is trying to run the world. This shows me that such folks really nothing about Freemasonry. Our fraternity is a good fellowship club for guys who are interested in the ideals of the Enlightenment. It's never been nothing more, or nothing less.

The fact that some powerful people have been Masons is no more relevant than the fact that most of have been non-Masons. Although, of course, it's often comical that some of these folks start calling everyone they don't like "Masons", the vast majority of whom have never had the slightest interest in Masonry.