"China-Russia plan joint mission to Mars"

BEIJING, China (Reuters) -- China and Russia plan to launch a joint mission to Mars in 2009 to scoop up rocks from the red planet and one of its moons, a Chinese scientist said on Wednesday.

Click here for full story.


Could it be the new space race 2009?

Albemet

Damn sweet!


heres the start of a new space race ready or not.


This will be communisms chance to break the back of the USA through a space race... cunning but very very cool at the same time.

I want to see man on mars before i die...That would be ace!

Cheers for the link dude. appreciated.

Space race??? ahhh...no.

Heres the facts: Russia has the tech...but not the money. China has the money...but not the tech.
The US wont share ANY adavnced technolgy with China, But Russia is always eager to do so, all they hear is "cha-ching".

If they need to combine there resources to get it done...so be it.

I think Nasa is trying to get a Mars sample return mission going...But that wont be until around 2011 or 2013).

Details on the CNN site appear a bit sketchy - and consistent with other reporting, as a similarly skimpy story at PhysOrg quotes essentially the same details - but I've got to say that this seems to be part non-story and part BS.

The non-story part would be the plan to "scoop up rocks" from one of Mars' moons. This unnamed mission (sketchy as it is on details) sounds identicle to the Phobos-Grunt mission to Phobos, Mars' inner (and larger) moon, which has been in development since 2001. According to James Oberg's site (PDF Warning) this mission will bring 200-300 grams of soil back to Earth and is scheduled to be launched in 2009, the same year as the unnamed mission in the source article.

And I'm all for Phobos-Grunt - NASA hasn't done anything similar with respect to Mars, Phobos, or Diemos. If successful it will be an example of truly groundbreaking engineering paving the way for some truly groundbreaking science. But the article sounds like the Phobos-Grunt probe/lander/return vehicle package will carry some Chinese instruments and might be supported with some Chinese money. China is getting in on an already planned mission, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it isn't as "new" as some people want to think it is.

As for the BS part, I can't believe that Russia and China can develop, build, and launch a space mission as complex, expensive, and technically demanding as a Mars sample return - that is, a return from the surface of Mars, not from a moon (or even a dust/atmosphere sample) in the 3 years and 4 months between now and the end of 2009. Murcielago is entirely right, Russia has the technology and China has the money, but you can only push technology so far so fast, and throwing money at a problem will only accomplish so much. Russia and China (and maybe the ESA) are logical partners in this and other space ventures, but I can't see them pulling off a true Mars sample return mission launch by 2009, especially when Russia had previously only planned a Phobos sample return launch (a much less technically challenging mission) for that same year.

Whoever gets there first, Im excited to see how effective the departure is. Getting off the Moon with such low gravity was relatively easy compared to getting off Mars. It will have to be completely automated, a challenge in itself.

I just hope they are prepared for what they bring back. Little dudes that like to whistle and are obsessed with Valvoline. Scary stuff!

Originally posted by Murcielago
I think Nasa is trying to get a Mars sample return mission going...But that wont be until around 2011 or 2013).

Yeah, not to mention our samples will be scooped up by people. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but NASA plan's a manned mission to Mars by 2018, right?

Also, I remember watching a special about the Apollo missions and all the guys at NASA were taking bout China and if they get "aggressive" in space we will have to do the same.

Ok now im freaked out because I just recently I had fealing that China or Russia would be planning a Mars mission and it seams I was correct.

PhloydPhan your comment on how "complex, expensive, and technically demanding as a Mars " mission would be is wrong, it does not take a great deal of technical knowledge to go to Mars likewise it doesn't take much knowlage to return from Mars. The main three concerns are fuel, time and the health of the men on the mission.

Its good to see that contrys are working together for something that will benefit everyone on Earth instead of spending there money on wars.

As for a space race I have doubts that NASA will be able to compete with Russia and China they may have more advanced technology but its to unreliable and its unreliable because NASA will not or are not allowed to co-operate with there counterparts like Russia & China. Its a shame really, if they would all get a long better and the US spent more money on scientific research then we might have already been to Mars and back.

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Yeah, not to mention our samples will be scooped up by people.

Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but NASA plan's a manned mission to Mars by 2018, right?

Also, I remember watching a special about the Apollo missions and all the guys at NASA were taking bout China and if they get "aggressive" in space we will have to do the same.

As I understand it NASA's over-all plan for the next decade is to retire the Space Shuttle by 2014 and replace it with the "Crew Exploration Vehicle". The CEV is supposed to be designed to conduct manned missions on both the Moon and Mars. NASA wants to reach the moon by 2018 and Mars somewhere around 2020 I believe. Ofcourse this is all subject to change as it largely depends on whether or not the next administration wants to continue with Bush's "vision for space". I'm actually kind of hoping that they skip the Moon and go to Mars first. Mars has more resources on it and we already have most of the tech we'd need to survive there.

To counter the poster above me...

NASA has and does cooperate with other space agencies. The International Space Station is one example, as are numerous missions in the past involving Skylab and Mier. Currently NASA is opting to develope the CEV on it's own, as it has done with every vehicle used in the past. This is largely because there are laws in the US against sharing advanced technology. However once the CEV is ready I doubt that NASA will just "go it alone" when it comes to space. Everyone benefits from cooperation by splitting the cost and then sharing the data.

I sure hope we don't use the CEV to go to Mars. A few days trip to the Moon is fine, but I certainly wouldn't want to spend 6months or more in there. A large ship with plenty of shielding and some form of artificial gravity is really needed to keep the crew from collapsing under their own weight when they land.

>
I would think the Russians of all people know this. They hold the records for living in space, and all the rubber band treadmills and exercise bikes won't suffice with such a long journey.

I hope whoever does successfully land and return samples atleast lands in an area known to be a dried up lake bed. Some place where evidence of past life can conclusively be found, if it exists.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by apc]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yeah, not to mention our samples will be scooped up by people.

Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but NASA plan's a manned mission to Mars by 2018, right?

wrong, Nasa is planning on going to the moon in 2018...no latter then 2020. Mars has no set date...but honestly...dont expect people on Mars in 2020...that goes for the world...not just Nasa. I would think Nasa would be landing a man on Mars around 2030.


Edn - You must be joking...Going to Mars isn't that hard....clearly you know nothing about space. It will likely take 6-8 months to get there and the same for the trip home, and while you are there, which will likely be a several month long trip, you will need to be doing tests and experiments the whole time...This is all very hard on a person...not to mention that that long in space means you will be getting high doses of radiation, and you bones and muscles will be getting weaker & weaker.
Man going to Mars is no simply feat.
oh, and the world isn't a perfect peaceful little place, where everybody gets along.
nor will it ever be.

Originally posted by Langolier
As I understand it NASA's over-all plan for the next decade is to retire the Space Shuttle by 2014 and replace it with the "Crew Exploration Vehicle". The CEV is supposed to be designed to conduct manned missions on both the Moon and Mars. NASA wants to reach the moon by 2018 and Mars somewhere around 2020 I believe. Ofcourse this is all subject to change as it largely depends on whether or not the next administration wants to continue with Bush's "vision for space". I'm actually kind of hoping that they skip the Moon and go to Mars first. Mars has more resources on it and we already have most of the tech we'd need to survive there.

Nope, Nasa plans on retiring the Space Shuttle in 2010, and hopes to have the CEV (now called Orion) to have its first test flight in 2012, and be fully operational in 2014.
Skip the moon? Why, its a perfect stepping stone to Mars, we can test out several Mars related technologies on its surface. And the moon has many resources. What resources does Mars have thats so urgent?

I think its great!!

Reasons: Nasa needs competition its like Intel and AMD If it wasn't for amd giving Intel a run for there money we would still be at 400Mhz instead of 4.Ghz+ and so on.

Competition helps us technically evolve

AlBeMeT

There will be no 4.0ghz till 2007

Murcielago did you even read my post?

Edn
The main three concerns are fuel, time and the health of the men on the mission.

Last sentence. I never said it would be easy for the people going there what i said was the technology required to get there Russia & China already have, the only problem as i said are fuel, time and the health of the people on the mission.

edit:

SteveR im running a 4.4GHz machine

[edit on 26-8-2006 by Edn]

Then it's overclocked or dual processor config, Right?

Edn, I'm sure that Murcielago read your post. But what you posted doesn't make any sense. What you said was:

Quote by Edn
PhloydPhan your comment on how "complex, expensive, and technically demanding as a Mars " mission would be is wrong, it does not take a great deal of technical knowledge to go to Mars likewise it doesn't take much knowlage to return from Mars. The main three concerns are fuel, time and the health of the men on the mission.

There are a few problems with this. If you had read the article that AlBeMet linked to in his original post, or the articles I linked to in mine, you would know that this is an UNMANNED mission to Mars. Even if it was, to suggest that Russia and China already have the technology to send people to Mars is just ignorant. Check out some information on NASA's Mars Design Reference Missions:
www.astronautix.com...
www.astronautix.com...

or on the Mars Direct Mission:
www.astronautix.com...

That should tell you exactly how far we are from being able to send people to Mars. You said in your post that "The main three concerns are fuel, time and the health of the men on the mission." That's like saying "Sure, Mars, no problem - except for getting there, sticking around to explore, coming home, and keeping everybody alive in the process."

(Edited for spelling.)

[edit on 26-8-2006 by PhloydPhan]

Originally posted by PhloydPhan


That should tell you exactly how far we are from being able to send people to Mars. You said in your post that "The main three concerns are fuel, time and the health of the men on the mission." That's like saying "Sure, Mars, no problem - except for getting there, sticking around to explore, coming home, and keeping everybody alive in the process."

hehe, ye that basically exactly what I said


I realized that it was an unmanned mission after the second read of the article after my second post i think. They really should mention that before they start gibbering away. nm.

But with China & Russia working together and support from Europe and the UK sending a craft to Mars looks to be highly successful.

Originally posted by Murcielago
wrong, Nasa is planning on going to the moon in 2018...no latter then 2020. Mars has no set date...but honestly...dont expect people on Mars in 2020...that goes for the world...not just Nasa. I would think Nasa would be landing a man on Mars around 2030.

Thanks for that, and besides the obvious problems that have to be worked out we also need to have leadership that is committed (ie. Kennedy) to such a mission, public support, and competition. That's what drove us into space and the moon, competition with leadership who basically believed that money was not an issue.

The reason the space craft use what we on Terra Firma call "outdated" processors is because those older chips are a lot easier to protect from radiation than the newer ones.

Originally posted by Murcielago

Nope, Nasa plans on retiring the Space Shuttle in 2010, and hopes to have the CEV (now called Orion) to have its first test flight in 2012, and be fully operational in 2014.
Skip the moon? Why, its a perfect stepping stone to Mars, we can test out several Mars related technologies on its surface. And the moon has many resources. What resources does Mars have thats so urgent?

Forgive me if my dates were a little off. The last I read NASA planned for retiring the shuttle and proceeding to the Moon/Mars at the dates I specified. If they're planning on doing it sooner now, then all the better.

As for the Moon vs Mars.

Mars presents more interesting geology to study when pertaining to the search for life there.

Mars has plenty of water.

Mars has an atmosphere that is more suited to shielding our astronauts from radiation than is the Moon's non-existant one. As well as other extremes.

It's atmosphere can also be used to produce breathable oxagen and rocket fuel.

Mars has a healthier level of gravity.

Also, a manned mission to Mars would garner more public interest than returning to the Moon.

Of-course both destinations have their merits and benefits anyway, and it seems that NASA is shooting for both in the next 20 years or so anyway. I'd rather see a mission to Mars than the Moon though.

Originally posted by Langolier
The last I read NASA planned for retiring the shuttle and proceeding to the Moon/Mars at the dates I specified. If they're planning on doing it sooner now, then all the better.

The dates have never changed...they originally said 2010...and have stuck with that date.

Mars presents more interesting geology to study when pertaining to the search for life there.

true...but I think most agree that the odds of us finding life on Mars is slim to none.

Mars has plenty of water.

really...links please.
I know that they have found that it has had water in the past. I thought there was a chance that there might be ice in its polar caps...but I didn't know it was proof positive.

Mars has an atmosphere that is more suited to shielding our astronauts from radiation

link please.
I know it has an atmosphere...but I dont think it has much at all for radiation shielding. Our best bet (when were their) is either to dig in and build under the martian soil...or (if we have enough water) make concrete buildings...which will provide us with adequate radiation shielding.

Mars has a healthier level of gravity.

true...but still a few times lower the earths...so your bone loss & muscle loss will just be at a slower pace...but it will still happen.

Also, a manned mission to Mars would garner more public interest than returning to the Moon.

True. Unfortunately, the average person sees no interest in the moon...there attitude is "being there, done that".