John Lear. Genuine?

Originally posted by thesneakiod
What i am trying to get at however, is john lears thread isnt that much different from the sleeper debate in my opinion. No matter how you put it both are making extraordinary claims, both don't have any proof yet one of them got ridiculed(and eventually banned) because no one knew who he was, yet the other is respected because he is well known.

Just a point of clarification, not only wasn't "sleeper" banned, he's still an active contributing member and has commented on some of the same threads John Lear is on. Matter of fact, it was sleeper's thread that caused John Lear to resume participation on ATS. Ridiculed? Yes, that sure happened. As I recall, things took a serious turn for the worse over a reference to a billiard table on an alien craft. His thread was locked and that was at his request, at least as I understood it.

I like John. i don't think for one minute he is lying. However I do not believe all that he believes.

He is always curteous, and has never once said you have to believe him, or that he has any proof. I think he has made that point abunduntly clear.

I'm not sure that John and Sleeper claim (collectively) that suicide or murder are operators of condemnation and recycling. I think it is more of a judgement based on an infinity of extenuating circumstances. There was a post in particular on a thread, where I think they said it was infinitely more sophisticated.

It rang to me like a filtering process, more than a judgement. Where you only pick the 'ripe' fruit, and the ripe detection machine is wise in totality.

So, as a ripening fruit, the question is, what is the end product? What are we for? If our saucer flying buddies can't explain it, then why are they obedient? What is their purpose? And the purpose of those to which they are obedient? Would not such a recursive question, after some time, produce an answer in closed form?

Could not we simply send out the question up the layers, as a recursive algorithm, to tell everyone to pass it on, and count the number of species that respond? The question would contain a request to respond with an answer.

So here we go.

Dear Space Buddies,

Request: What is your purpose? Please ask those whom you serve/serve you the same question. This is hop 0. Your hop is hop 1. Ask this question such that the hop is incremented by 1 when you ask those you serve/who serve you. Do not ask any species that sends you this question prior (in human time or other most appropriate temporal metric). When you receive a response, please report that response in the aggregated form of consuming the response you receive into the meaning you believe you have. Also report the largest hop number you receive in response.

Thank you, space buddies. Wanna come over my place for pancakes?

[edit on 23-8-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

Dear John...

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Since john lear has his own thread which we are not aloud to question his extraordinary
claims for fear of being warned or banned

I hope I can clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding here.

There's nothing wrong with questioning John Lear or challenging his claims, either as a person or a member of ATS.

Normally we don't allow threads of this kind about specific members because they are usually off-topic drama magnets and are disrespectful to the member in question.

There was concern about this, so I asked John, and he made it clear that he has no problem whatsoever with anyone questioning or challenging his claims.

Business As Usual

So here's what I ask that we do:

1. Let's remember that this is ATS. The T&C apply as always and will be enforced, so please be nice and play by the rules.

2. John is a celebrity, but he's also a member. So let's give him the respect all ATSers are entitled to.

3. As with any ATSer, it is perfectly okay to challenge any claim he makes. Skepticism is and always will be welcome on ATS. No one is expected or required to take John Lear's words as gospel.

4. However, also as with any ATSer, challenging claims should not be confused with personal insults. If you disagree with him or are skeptical of his statements, there's nothing wrong with saying so, but name-calling or other personal attacks will not be tolerated.

The ATS Way

In other words, anything John says is fair game, but let's not knock him for posting his candid opinions on ATS.

Yes, he can be wrong. So can any of us. That's okay.

As long as we can share our many different opinions in an atmosphere of mutual respect and courtesy, we can all say our peace, and that's the ATS Way.




[edit on 8/23/2006 by Majic]

IMHO John Lear as well as sleeper has presented some of the most interesting information i have ever read in this department. There are parts of it i don´t understand but the parts i do understand *clicks* with what i´ve experienced/felt/knew from before visiting ATS. I also appreciate the form of humble politeness, John don´t push his info down readers throat, it´s more like "i´ll tell you what i know/believe and then you make up your own opinion". I like!!

Our world has gone "pictureproof" crazy, if blurry, pixelated, distorted, jittery imagery is not presented you will find a hard time beeing believed. I think we´re connected to "something" and that connection gives you a gut feeling if you are open for it. My gut feeling says these guys are genuine and i choose to follow that...

For me, i have to suspend a bit of belief when i read some of the things that he says.
Its like watching an over the top action movie, i have to sort of put my brain in neutral
and just enjoy what i read from him.

That being said, i do think that saying that aliens exist on other planets in our solar
system and soul catchers on the moon who have a straight down the line approach
to humanity, you really have to back it up. Unfortunaly he can't and i dont know if
that's what makes me sceptical about most things he says.

As many posters agreed, he does seem like a nice guy but thats only when your asking
him a question that in its self is a other worldly one, which is only natural that you will
receive just a other worldly answer from him.

Lets face it, he is a ufo/alien believers wet dream.
Is he just saying what we want to hear?

thesneakiod, I have a feeling that if you actually knew the "real truth" you're current "beliefs" would mean absolutely nothing. So having to suspend them to read something that John says, does not surprise me.

He believes what he believes and tells people what he believes. He doesn't have to offer proof, it's a belief, and he isn't trying to convince you, rather, inform.

Millions of people believe in God and the Bible. There is absolutely NO solid, tangible proof that there is a God, yet BILLIONS of people believe in one, on faith alone. See where I'm going with this?

Why is this a thread?

everyone knows that John lear is really a learbot, constructed of half chewed cuban cigars, pieces of sharp metal, and runs off fuel made of pure cognac...

Rather good programming also... very funny... and even comes across as totally real sometimes...

amazing stuff really... I think Bob lazar constructed him shortly before his stint at area S4

seriously... he is as up front as he can be... he knows nothing for certain... but has shared his thoughts with us, and many times the justification for those thoughts...

mighty nice of him... he has earned a drink on me, the next time he passes thru OK...
thanks John...

even though i dont 100% agree with everything john says hes a respected member of the ufo community and i dont think people should go around making forms without his permission but if john said he doesnt mind like majic said well then its ok but next time dont u think u shuld ask him next time you make a thread about him its only polite

Well he's certainly got some rather far reaching conclusions on things, Lazar's story is interesting.

Then again he has said that Lazar worked on a craft just like whats pictured...guess where...in one of Meier's photos.

Now it's not that I dont think something happened with Lazar, but I dont think S-4 brought Lazar in to work on pie plates, cereal bowls and ashtrays painted silver.

Is it more likely Lazar was drugged (as Mr. Lear said) and was shown Meier's, along with other UFO photos, thereby generating Lazar's account of the disc he worked on? Maybe to cover the memory of what he really worked on? Or maybe to generate the experience from nothing?

Well it's a lot more likely that then anything in a Meier photo being a reality past a hugcap.

John Lear. Genuine?

He must be presenting enough truth to justify someone creating a thread about him.

Somebody on the previous page mentioned David Icke. They launched a hideous stinging attack on the guy, dismissing him as a nutjob and anyone who believes his claims are in Santa Claus Tooth Fairy World. Then they proceed to place John in the same category.

I think this is highly disrespectful to both people. Both these guys are putting information forward, they don't expect you to believe them or the conclusions they have drawn, they are both courteously putting the information out there and going where their research leads them. Anyway, who are you to ridiclule someone who puts a case forward for Reptilian involvement in the origin of our species? There is some evidence in the historical and scientific record which does strongly suggests this. Similarly, who are you to dismiss the idea man has been covering up the fact there could be bases on the moon, on Mars, on every planet in our solar system? It wouldn't be the first time man has lied to their fellow comrades.

We are here to discuss conspiracies after all. If you aren't interested in an alternative angle, then you shouldn't be here at ATS - pure and simple. It's a fine thing to be skeptical, but ignorant and disrespectful is not a gracious look. In fact the OP sneakiod, the other day, you attacked me for defending people who are sick of the world they live in and perhaps deep inside wanted something to happen on Aug 22. You said that "is their life so terrible that they would want something like that to happen" and I came back with what I thought was a valid remark - that perhaps our consciousness is aware there are injustices and suffering in the world and deep inside some of us feel it's time for a clean slate. Then you basically said I'm not living in the real world dismissing me as a kook. Followed by an icon of a face vomiting. Y'know? It's this kind of intolerance which I don't particularly care for at ATS. We're only exchanging ideas. And being ATS, sometimes it leans on the fringe of human understanding - if you're not tolerant of that then perhaps you really shouldn't be here.

I feel we should all cut John Lear some slack. He IS credible. He has always been credible. Most people here are credible for the most part with the ideas they bring to the table. Even if on the surface they may seem in-credible, you either remain ignorant, or you make an effort to understand their alternate point of view. The choice is yours.

[edit on 23-8-2006 by RiotComing]

Originally posted by RiotComing
...... It's this kind of intolerance which I don't particularly care for at ATS. We're only exchanging ideas. And being ATS, sometimes it leans on the fringe of human understanding - if you're not tolerant of that then perhaps you really shouldn't be here.

...... you either remain ignorant, or you make an effort to understand their alternate point of view. The choice is yours.

i like to think of ATS is a thinktank.

The problem arises when we have disruptions in our communication. I think these disruptions in our communication is due to peoples intolerance. We have people on this sight of all ages, and many backgrounds. Frustration happens. What may be common place for one, may be unthinkable for another member to fathom. And, frustrations arise.

If people had/have the courage to be less intolerant of the accumilation of others' experiences and how they relay that information as best they can, ATS would most certainly be a better place.

I know i've been guilty of letting my emotions rule from time to time, and i admit there were times my judgment was clouded due to my emotional responses to people.

Having said that. What is the root cause for intolerance on ATS?

I think Mr. Lear is a straight up guy,with no reason to B.S. He is one of the best pilots in the world and I have nothing but respect for the man.I feel that he has no reason to waste anyones time by spreading false info.I wish I could have flown half the planes he got to fly!

John Lear is one of the reasons I continue to check on this board all the time. Some of the theories he has seen and proposes are way out there for the vast majority populace, but I would say that many of us here on occasion think outside of the box in terms of what exactly is possible within this huge, strange universe. I have seen and experienced enough manner of weird s**t to believe that just about anything may be possible, so John's take on things based on all of the 'inside' data he's been presented over the years is something that I find to be highly fascinating. Might not agree with everything he says (though I would say I probably do on about 90% of it), but I certainly think he's a HUGE asset to this board and ufology in general.

Originally posted by dAlen


Again, he is not relying or at least not claiming this is coming from documentation like many others claim. So you can have whatever thread you like, but when its about a persons opinions, Im not sure how you can say its authentic or not...as he does not claim he has proof for any of it.


Dalen

I disagree. It does appear to me that he is relying upon documentation and information that he has gotten from other sources. And it also appears to me that the reason why you can not pin him down on his sources is because he's ripping it off and making changes to it to fit his own theories and ideas. It appeared to me that he was getting some of his ideas from a document on Linda Howe's website where an alien talks about an experiment and putting an end to that experiement. Another person asks him if they are putting an end to the experiment and he answers no. When I ask him about his source he doesnt tell what his source is but changes the word he uses from experiment to another word. Then later in the thread they are once again talking about something else from the very same document that he denies ever having read. In my experience there are two kinds of people who rip off other people's words and ideas. There are those who claim just the opposite is true. And then there are those who rip it off and make little changes to it. After they rip you off, (usually through eavesdropping), they claim things like, "great minds think alike", and look at you with a big smile on their face. Or they say something like, "Well, who did YOU rip it off from" admitting they are ripping you off and at the same time claiming you also ripped it off. I know, I've been through it enough.

[edit on 23-8-2006 by grasshopper]

Originally posted by thesneakiod


If someone says there are planets out there teaming with life, i dont see it as being
impolite to ask how he got that information, or wether its true or not.

He isn't giving you his sources. Is he going to claim that he never heard the story of the alien who appeared to a doctor and allowed the doctor to give him a physical and then went on to tell the doctor that the other planets in this solar system are teaming with life? He makes outrageous claims that those who have done some reading have heard before. But he doesn't give you his sources and gives other people here who are not so well read the impression that these are his own ideas and theories.

to me its rude to question a member
but if John said its ok i guess its ok
but why would you question the guy u2u him or something and question him there
i think he is a credit to ATS
well thats what i think anyways
cheers

Originally posted by Access Denied

My opinion of Lear? He's laughing at you all.

Thanks AccessDenied your opinions are always welcome here and when I agreed to this thread I knew Lars' affidavit would eventually show up. Lars and I were the best of friends at one time, I trusted him to watch my home, my children and business while both my wife and I were away. Lars was actually the guy that opened my mind to conspiracy with the Zapruder JFK film. Some of what Lars says is true. Some is not. Lars hasn't checked in with any of his friends for about 6 years now, which is very unusual for Lars. Some fear he may be dead. I don't know. I can say this about Lars, we had some great times together and I'm sorry he felt the way he did at the end of our friendship.

Originally posted by Access Denied

UFO's, Aliens and "Ex"-intelligence Agents: Who's Fooling Whom
The Inside Story of John Lear, Bill Cooper and "The Greatest Cover-Up in Human History"
An Affidavit by Lars C. Hansson

July 18, 1991

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part One: LEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS
(with apologies to Dr. Hunter S. Thompson)

Despite Lear's cultivated image as a swashbuckling pilot and serious UFO researcher, he is, in my opinion, and others', an irresponsible, self-centered, loutish thrill-seeker who truly has no business in the latter field, and questionable competence in the former, given his record of hard-drinking and womanizing, at least during the time I associated with him from 1988-1990. Lest I be accused of self-righteousness in this regard, I have never pretended to sanctity, but have certainly interacted with Lear and the others mentioned herein with utmost integrity, while he has not hesitated to portray me publicly in a much different light. Because of the magnitude of the issues he has succeeded in forcing before the world's attention, I believe that it is long past the time when the public should know more of the truth about Lear which he has so desperately been attempting to conceal. I sincerely regret that I waited this long to bring it to their attention myself.

Hansson's Affidavit, Part 1

Apparently UFOlogists are like politicians... neither party is immune to mud slinging... sort of like the competing abductees and contactees here who each claim to know the "real" truth... the widely varying and mutually exclusive truth that is.

My opinion of Lear? He's laughing at you all.

Well we have affidavits like that also for ufo cases or abduction or alien interaction with humans... How come nobody brings those up and prove the veracity of the subject? And when is about to bash and offend and insult somebody is very comfortable to dig the internet and to find affidavits with names and last names and words and words and claimes...
A C i guess since J Lear has never claimed anything about Roswell, you could have saved your so called sarcasm and try to finish debunking Roswell Crash