How could OSB be dead if.....

Quick question:


How can Osama Bin Laden be dead, since, if you remember, there is a hefty reward for his body, DEAD OR ALIVE. If he were dead, wouldn't some group figure out how to turn in his body and collect the reward, which, I can't remember the exact amount, but somewhere around $25 mil?


Again, I am not too up to snuff on this whole war on terrorism stuff, so please do not knock me for not knowing the answer to my own newbie question


Mouth

I don't think he is dead just as I don't think he's the great Bondesque Terrorist Mastermind that the US Government makes him out to be. But, if he is dead he could quite easily have been killed in a bomb attack when the US were shelling the living daylights out of the Mountains where the underground networks were supposed to be in Afghanistan shortly after 9/11. Short of taking a JCB digger and a fine tooth comb you'd be lucky to find him in that rubble.

Another alternative is that Special forces captured him and took him prisoner or killed him. He could have even had his carcass turned over to the US Government in return for the reward and they could have thrown his corpse in a bag somewhere ready to pull it out and put it on parade when the announcement suited the Governments agenda most, a-la- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.


Personally I think bin laden is just a boogey man that the US used as a front to go to the middle east. It doesn't matter if he's dead or alive to the Terrorist and militant groups in the Middle East because the ball is well and truly for them too. He only matters to the US now because his name puts the frightners on people in news bulletins and allows the government to strip more rights away in order to save us from his evil plan.

He could be dead. Use your imagination. Where in the world could Osama be? For all we know he's buried under the White House or in Arlington Cemetery (i'd rather not think this would be done)...His body is protected just as Bush & Cheney are protected....What's so hard to beleive about that?

You dont think they're going to find his grave, do you?

IMO he is hiding in Nepal due to the geography of the area and the current political situation of that country ,This is soley my opinion though.

You dont think they're going to find his grave, do you?

No, not at all. Here, I guess I will go over a few scenarios (no facts, btw lol):


1: Osama is still alive and in hiding.

2: He was killed in a bombing raid.
-If this were true, why wouldn't some militant try to collect his remains and bring them in for the reward money?

3: He was captured and killed.
-If this were true, of course a US soldier knows about the reward, why would HE not try to collect?


Edit: Inserted quote





[edit on 23/8/06 by Mouth]

My guess is because if he blew the whistle he'd be a dead man.

simple. Or his family would have an unfortunate accident...

Another point to think of. If the Saudi government by any chance knew that he was dead, or his family, do you really think they would bother with $25 million dollars? They have tons of money, and Prince Bandar alone could probably spend that much money in 6 months without flinching.

Do I think he's dead? Well, honestly I don't think it really matters at this point. OBL has taken less of the limelight as the stage has already been set for boogeymen and the WOT. I think he has become more of an icon of the jihadist movement than a key figure. There are enough baddies out there that if he was to die, someone else would take over the movement, though I already think someone has. When you sit back to think about it though, he really seems like not much of a "player" on this chess board.

Originally posted by niteboy82


Do I think he's dead? Well, honestly I don't think it really matters at this point. OBL has taken less of the limelight as the stage has already been set for boogeymen and the WOT. I think he has become more of an icon of the jihadist movement than a key figure. There are enough baddies out there that if he was to die, someone else would take over the movement, though I already think someone has. When you sit back to think about it though, he really seems like not much of a "player" on this chess board.

Very good points niteboy. Awesome avatar too, btw. Yeah, I mean, I guess when you really think about it, it really doesn't matter if he is dead or alive... We americans have plenty to worry about, not to mention what goes on in each of our own little lives.

original quote by: Mouth
If he were dead, wouldn't some group figure out how to turn in his body and collect the reward, which, I can't remember the exact amount, but somewhere around $25 mil?

Ill sum it up in one word.......HOFFA. The guy has been dead and missing for how many decades now? He is probably never going to be found. According to one news article OBL is dead. welfarestate.com has the article...

ranslation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633

News of Bin Laden's Death
and Funeral 10 days ago

Islamabad -
A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

I am not sure if Bin Laden is dead or not(though I am leaning that way). Nightboy makes a good note that in that; it matters little at this point as there are more than enough people ready to fill the void of OBL's departure.

I just find it alittle unlikely that a man with chronic kidney problems would be able to outrun and gun the american military through mountainous terrain; with a virtual mobile hospital; with kidney problems being hooked up to a dialysis machine/article/sciencedaily.com.

But wait, this article says that a new "portable" machine is around the corner. (NOTE the article is from 2004) so thats 3 years AFTER 911. So he didnt have a portable machine. I am going to highlight a piece from the above article that I thought was pertinent to the point.

"By employing the microtechnology being developed at OSU's College of Engineering, the filter efficiency skyrockets to about 90 percent," Baker said. "And we're able to reduce the dimensions of a dialysis machine from the size of a refrigerator to the size of a piece of carry-on luggage, which makes treatment portable."

Notice the size they say of the machine is about the size of a refrigorator.(not terribly portable in mountainous terrain) the reduced size is said to be about the size of a luggage bag.

OSU researchers and Home Dialysis Plus officials say the reduced size and increased efficiency will improve the lives of dialysis patients because treatments will be done in the home while patients are asleep at night. Many dialysis patients now have to limit travel and other opportunities due to time-consuming treatments that can take up to four hours.

Well well well... so It is a time consuming process that pretty much has to be done at the hospitals. Or in OBL's case; MASH unit.

So what is the recovery chances for OBL's condition?

There is NO arguement that OBL suffered from kidney problems and had complications of the lungs. So what are the chances of OBL having a recovery?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov lists some findings

Recovery of renal function and the discontinuation of dialysis in patients treated with continuous peritoneal dialysis.

Goldstein A, Kliger AS, Finkelstein FO.
Department of Medicine, Hospital of St. Raphael and Yale University, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Previous studies have shown that patients with end-stage renal disease (ESRD) treated with continuous peritoneal dialysis (CPD) have better preservation of endogenous renal function than patients treated with hemodialysis (HD). We wondered if this better preservation of endogenous renal function seen with CPD patients translates into the improved likelihood of recovery of endogenous renal function in those patients with potentially reversible causes of renal failure. METHODS: To evaluate this question, we reviewed the records of all 1200 patients that completed CPD training at a large, freestanding peritoneal dialysis center in New Haven, Connecticut, between 1979 and 1999, and the records of all patients completing CPD training in New England between 1993 and 1998. In New Haven, about half the new patients with ESRD were started on CPD compared to only 15% in New England. We then compared the chances of recovery of renal function in these two cohorts of CPD patients to the chances of recovery of renal function in two groups of HD patients. The first group consisted of all patients that started on HD in New England between 1993 and 1998.The second group consisted of all patients that started HD in our HD unit in New Haven, Connecticut, between 1993 and 1999. The data on the New England patients were provided by the ESRD Network of New England. All patients entered into the present study had to have been on dialysis for a minimum of 3 months, as in the United States Renal Data System database, and had to have recovered sufficient renal function to be able to be maintained off dialysis for a minimum of 30 days. RESULTS: 29 of 1,200 CPD patients (2.4%) trained in New Haven recovered sufficient renal function to permit the discontinuation of dialysis for a minimum of 30 days. In comparison, only 305 of 19,032 patients (1.6%) managed with HD in New England (p < 0.05 compared to New Haven CPD patients) and 3 of 430 patients (0.7%) in our HD center (p < 0.05 compared to New Haven CPD patients) recovered sufficient glomerular filtration rate (GFR) to allow the discontinuation of dialysis for at least 30 days. If only those CPD patients that initiated dialysis between 1993 and 1999 in New Haven were analyzed, 15 of 369 (4.1%) recovered sufficient GFR to allow discontinuation of dialysis for at least 30 days (p < 0.025 compared to both groups of HD patients). Of the 2,924 patients completing CPD training in New England, 60 (2.1%) recovered renal function; this percentage is not significantly different from the percent of HD patients in New England recovering renal function. CONCLUSION: Although the present study is a retrospective study and the actual criteria for selection of CPD and HD therapy are not controlled for, the data raise the question of whether there may be a therapeutic advantage to treating newly diagnosed ESRD patients, that have a potentially reversible cause of renal failure, with CPD.

PMID: 12713082 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

from the looks of it here only about 2-4% recover renal function.... so OBL's chance of beating the dialysis; let alone the most advanced army in the world chasing him; are slim to none.

I will leave you with a couple images for comparison the first is from Dec. 7 2001. The other is from today on cnn dot com 8-23-06(probably file fottage) but still look how much healthier they are broadcasting his image.




And




is he really alive guys? you tell me cause the chips certainly are NOT stacked in his favor.

[edit on 8/23/2006 by TONE23]

[edit on 8/23/2006 by TONE23]

He looks mummified and with todays technologies, if Betsy Wetsy can wet herself, Osama can talk and flap his arms....

If that is him at all- and i seriously doubt it. I'm sure before his death, they made a series of videos to help the USA out just in case.

Just keep in mind that there is a lot of disinformaiton out there. Knowledge about bin laden is of important strategic value if you think that capturing or killing him is important. How are you going to extract him if you reveal his location to the world?

Then again, maybe our government would rather keep him in the field. I can't tell, too much is in the dark. Jefferson would be rolling over in his grave. Washington would be feeling sick. Lincoln would be depressed. Teddy Rosevelt would be screaming "Yeeha" and charging into an unnamed country on a horse.

Anyway, I can't comment any more on this subject. But you folks are on a conspiracy site, so, you already have open minds, just don't close them around weakly substantiated theories or official media statements from CIA employees who are payed to lie to you (an informed public is a problem, apparently.)

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

The last genuine osama video tape was back from 2001. Where's he been since?
If the terrorist organizations that know of his death reveal it to the world, it would only suffer them a severe blow to their morale. He's long gone.

lets say an AL-Q member brings us the body... would the govt' be stupid enough to give that person 25million which could then be used by AL-Q to furthur push their agenda? ie. buying weapons, supplies...

Lets say there is a lot of disinformaiton out there. and that I haven't seen one thread on ATS that has gotten it right yet. And no, I'm not gonna say anything else.

Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
Lets say there is a lot of disinformaiton out there. and that I haven't seen one thread on ATS that has gotten it right yet. And no, I'm not gonna say anything else.

Got it right?

I mean, how are we to ever really know what actually happened to OBL? Or anything for that matter? Is it just enough if most people accept it that it therefore is true?

For all you know the reward has already been claimed and paid.

Keeping the idea of Osama Bin Laden alive is the most important thing.
For that, you have to mention him and keep things like the FBI rewards up.
Catching him is not even on the agenda anymore. Don't believe me? Read whats under this post in my signiature ...

Bush&Co don't care if Osama is caught or not.

yesx matrix,

the quotes in your sig pretty much summed it up.
the guy is as dead as a doornail but the image of
"Cobra Commander"(GI Joe) is alive and well.