Why is Jesus dying on the cross a big deal ?

Why is it that Christians make a big deal out of the "huge sacrifice" Jesus made by dying on the cross.

He knows he goes to heaven after he dies. Wow, big sacrifice. It would be like me saying I am making a huge sacrifice by taking a plane from freezing Alaska to the beaches of the Carribean. Everyone feel bad for me. You should all congregate once a week and talk about what a wonderful martyr I am.

Many people give up their lives everyday for what they believe in and to help others. And they don't know that they go to heaven when they die. They don't even know for sure that there is even anything at all after death.

And they also talk about how god loves us so much that he would even send his only son to die on the cross. I thought that we are all god's children. And he is god, he could make as many son's for himself as he wants. Plus he gets Jesus back in heaven with him anyways, I fail to see the sacrifice here. If I vote to send my son off die in some far away country for what I believe in, that is making a sacrifice. I may never see him again.

Someone please clear this up for me...

Originally posted by greenkoolaid
Why is it that Christians make a big deal out of the "huge sacrifice" Jesus made by dying on the cross.

He knows he goes to heaven after he dies. Wow, big sacrifice. It would be like me saying I am making a huge sacrifice by taking a plane from freezing Alaska to the beaches of the Carribean. Everyone feel bad for me. You should all congregate once a week and talk about what a wonderful martyr I am.

Many people give up their lives everyday for what they believe in and to help others. And they don't know that they go to heaven when they die. They don't even know for sure that there is even anything at all after death.

And they also talk about how god loves us so much that he would even send his only son to die on the cross. I thought that we are all god's children. And he is god, he could make as many son's for himself as he wants. Plus he gets Jesus back in heaven with him anyways, I fail to see the sacrifice here. If I vote to send my son off die in some far away country for what I believe in, that is making a sacrifice. I may never see him again.

Someone please clear this up for me...

you cleared it up yourself. HAHAHA!!!! good stuff.

It's often called a sacrifice, when actually it's the opposite. God didn't sacrifice his son, because by letting him die, he ensured he'd be by his side in the Heavenly realm - hardly a sacrifice!

Obviously the purpose of the 'sacrifice' was more for the benefit of the people. It unified them, created a martyr and showed them that there was a higher power and life after death. It also pissed the Romans off, so all in all it achieved quite a bit.

I'm actually dismayed at the comments to this already?
Do any of you believe in God?
Do any of you read the Bible?
Do any of you have faith in anything but yourselves?
Do any of you, regardless of your upbringing and feelings of God and the Bible, understand Christianity?
Do any of you have an open mind enough to try to understand the Bible and the PLan of Salvation that is layed out in it?

In such.......the answer to this question becomes clear.
Despite our beliefs on anything, to understand facts, information, etc., one must try to understand the perspective of anothers views, information, etc.

The comments given thus far, are examples of nonsense and lack crediability of understanding. They are mere expressions of "opinion" and do not answer the question asked. Then one must also try to understand the reasoning of the question asked, being the question was followed up with a biased reasoning.....

I'll answer your question:
The "big deal" concerning Jesus "sacrifice" on the Cross was symbolic in representing the fullfillment of the Plan of Salvation to and for humanity, according to Christianity. It may be of no consequesnce to you or some others, but to Christians, without this "sacrifice", many things would be different in the Christian world of thinking and doing. Jesus's "sacrifice" symbolizes many things, instead of mocking it and belittleing it, try taking an open-minded attitude and understand the symbolism behind it.....allowing your own personal feelings, beliefs, etc. to hamper you in doing so, does not answer the question and does not fulfill the requirements of "deny ignorance."

If you don't believe in God, Christianity, Jesus, etc, etc, that is your opinion and your right. BUT, one who researches and has an open-mind, despite what I have mentioned above, gives a open-minded answer....not a closed-minded one.......

Many read but do not truly understand......
In a world filled with 'self' and bias's, we seperate ourselves by being open-minded and freeing ourselves from lack of understanding and lack of tolerences.

My point?
Be able to truly READ and UNDERSTAND....
Failing to do this only complicates ones ability to "see".
"Sacrifice" requires a denial of selfishness/self.....Love, absolute love, gives and "sacrifices" unselfishly...you see....in a true understanding of Love....everything but self matters.....


regards
seekerof

It's very much clear to me (even more so then before) why you are wearing the *badge*. Great words!

The answer was already given for those who care to have become informed:

www.carm.org...

You know google is a wonderful tool, you can find a lot of answers to a lot of questions.

Thank you for your passionate and well thought out comments.

I would like to comment on the confusion that is being stated by the original poster and the follow-ups:

The sacrifice was that of the physical death of the man, Jesus. The sacrifice was that of the restraint of God.

It is easy to try to minimize the sacrifice the man Jesus gave when you view it from a standpoint of the divine spirit connected with him. This viewpoint is evident in your statements concerning "he knew he would go to heaven". Yes, imbued with the divine spirit of his Father, he did have a knowing of his eternity that we, ourselves, find hard to grasp. But this does not in any fashion decrease the humanness of this man. He had only one life. One life to see sunrises, one life to enjoy human love and friendship. One life to have the love of a mother, and only one life to dreams attached with mortal life.

There are many sacrifices we as mortals endure. Physical pain, emotional trauma, the loss of loved ones (sometimes our own children), but none of these are the ultimate sacrifice...physical death. Because when physical death occurs, all other options, all other goals, all choices cease. We are done in this life. The same was true for the man Jesus. And so his prayer in the Garden on the eve of his death..."if it be Your will, let this cup pass from me." He didn't want to cease to be, physically. He didn't want to lose the choices and chances that come with corporeal life.

These questions are worthy of discussion, but sometimes they are very hard to read, because it is reading something that seems to minimize a sacrifice that the questioner has not, themselves, committed to. Sometimes it is very easy to minimize situations you have not been in.

Just remember, the ultimate and final temptation of Christ, and the greatest sacrifice was the fact that he had within his authority, and at his one word, the power to be taken out of the harmful, painful and life-ending situation...and he didn't invoke that authority. And I, for one, can assure you that I would have messed the whole thing up and called 10,000 angels to take me home...WITHOUT enduring the pain and suffering.

The importance of this sacrifice to Christian believers is the placing of our sins on the Christ as the scapegoat. We believe that we all fall short of the glory of God, that salvation is nonmeritorious and it's a good thing, because none of us would merit it if it were. Salvation is a gift that proceeds from the mercy and grace and love of God, manifested through the sacrifice presented by Christ in his own persecution and death.

As Seekerof stated, it is okay for you not to believe like us. We accept that. I personally don't feel the need to proselytize or convert. Christ asked, in the great commission, that I share my beliefs and the message of his life and sacrifice. Now I have done that.

Regards.



[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Valhall]

well....I'm no Christian, but I'd bet if someone made you wear a crown of thorns, then hammered long spikes through your hands and feet, to hold you on a wooden cross...regardless of consequences (going to heaven, etc.), YOU'D consider it a very big deal, hehe.....

Seriously though, see Seekerof's answer...

After Adam and Eve, God became incarnate again in the shape of Jesus and Mary in order to steer humanity back on the right path...not only was there ridicule, ostricisation, torture and crucifixion for these hallowed beings, but their words were twisted, misunderstood and distorted from then on...and look of the state of the world since.

This is not God's doing, because part of the gift of life was (as well as providing a paradisal planet ) free will, which has been used by humans to abuse each other and the planet itself, ever since. Shocking behaviour! This is the world you find yourselves in now.

If God chose to come again, one last time, would anyone listen?

i don't believe that jesus is ever quoted as saying, "i'm going to be sacrificed for your sins". this is dogma. blood sacrifice is an old testament and/or satanic/pagan thing. so many people celebrating the brutal murder of a great teacher is sick in my eyes.
jesus didn't come to earth to die for us. he came to teach and was persecuted by the old boys club(the same old boys running our current whorled mess) for teaching truths that would release people from the old dogma. after he died the messsage was co-opted.
jesus taught tolerance and forgiveness and empathy. the bloody church has none of these things.
and, once again, ...why do you believe the bible is authentic divinely inspired writing? you know it's been tampered with at the whims of petty tyrants. why would you follow the dogma of the church, when you know the church's goal is greed and power?

billybob....
I respect your views and interpretations....though I mat differ with you, please remember what I just wrote.

You said:
"i don't believe that jesus is ever quoted as saying, "i'm going to be sacrificed for your sins". this is dogma"

As I have mentioned before...Jesus's death represents and "symbolizes" many things. And it is not "dogma." You may 'term' it as such, but you are wrong....you are taking out of contest and not backing it up with easily found facts. In others words, you are giving unfactual information and further, not backing it with facts, quaotes, etc. Your choice though.


You said:
"blood sacrifice is an old testament and/or satanic/pagan thing"

Satanic? Got backing for this assertion or you are merely presenting an opinion? Blood sacrifices, animal specifically, was begun by Adam as a sign of atonement for his sins. Jesus's death symbolized and ended the Jewish sacrificial system. Instead of taking an animal sacrifice to the Jewish priest so that it could be sacrificed for atonement/forgiveness, Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice, the last sacrifice.....his blood symbolized to all Christians and humanity, that we are forgiven and by grace, through Him, we are forgiven and given atonement. Jagd. could very well answer this far better than I can.

You said:
"so many people celebrating the brutal murder of a great teacher is sick in my eyes. jesus didn't come to earth to die for us."

Celebrating? Doubtful and unfounded. Care to share some 'examples'? His death is 'mourned' but the 'sacrifice' and the message he gives from such sacrifice is praised. His death represented ultimate, unselfish, Love.

You said:
"he came to teach and was persecuted by the old boys club(the same old boys running our current whorled mess) for teaching truths that would release people from the old dogma. after he died the messsage was co-opted."

"old boys club" would be who? Zionist? OK....
Jesus was teaching a universal message, aimed at the Jews, but given for all humanity. "Co-opted"? Care to explain?

You said:
"jesus taught tolerance and forgiveness and empathy. the bloody church has none of these things."

Jesus taught LOVE.....tolerance and forgiveness are incorporated in the embodiment of LOVE....they are the fruits of true, unconditional LOVE.

Ahhh, the "church" issue.....
The church is run by people.....people represent and symbolize man.....man represents and symbolizes humanity.....thus it is not the "church", you direct your anger towards, it should be you, me, they, them, man, humanity. The "church" is the outer garment of 'man'.....the root to all sufferings and misfortunes, war, etc., etc., is not "religion" nor "the church".....it is man/humanity....yet in all our denial's we fail to admit this and continue with the "religion" and "church" issues......

You said:
"why do you believe the bible is authentic divinely inspired writing? you know it's been tampered with at the whims of petty tyrants. why would you follow the dogma of the church, when you know the church's goal is greed and power?

Singing that same ole' song again? You know...the one that has been sung for centuries........?
Despite your protests and somewhat fact based comments...they are irrelevent to the true Christian. Why? Because Jesus said that only by Him, thorugh Him (not the church, not the Bible, etc.) but by grace and faith in his dying, resurrection and ascendence to heaven would one be 'saved.'
So your issue was what?


Peace.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 2-11-2003 by Seekerof]

Well, the cross/crucifix is a big deal.

How many people recognise the true Orthodox cross with the extra two bars? Why was it modified? Hmmm.

The crucifix is one of the biggest global marketing brands, bigger than Coke or McDonalds or Microsoft Windows. It is immediately recognizable, and connotes what is happening in buildings, and what is probably happening in the heads of people wearing it around their necks.

Me, I prefer not to glorify instruments of execution.

Christ taught well, many years ago, but his teachings have been abused by most Christian Churchs ever since.

Why is Jesus dying on the cross a big deal ?


His death was symbolic, also I think it was to show us not to fear death either.


Too many Christians go around fearing death constantly, if they are going to heaven what is there to fear?
Perhaps they are just "selective christians" and truly fear they might go to whatever hell is suppose to be.

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by greenkoolaid
Why is it that Christians make a big deal out of the "huge sacrifice" Jesus made by dying on the cross.

He knows he goes to heaven after he dies. Wow, big sacrifice. It would be like me saying I am making a huge sacrifice by taking a plane from freezing Alaska to the beaches of the Carribean. Everyone feel bad for me. You should all congregate once a week and talk about what a wonderful martyr I am.

Many people give up their lives everyday for what they believe in and to help others. And they don't know that they go to heaven when they die. They don't even know for sure that there is even anything at all after death.

And they also talk about how god loves us so much that he would even send his only son to die on the cross. I thought that we are all god's children. And he is god, he could make as many son's for himself as he wants. Plus he gets Jesus back in heaven with him anyways, I fail to see the sacrifice here. If I vote to send my son off die in some far away country for what I believe in, that is making a sacrifice. I may never see him again.

Someone please clear this up for me...

you cleared it up yourself. HAHAHA!!!! good stuff.

The sacrifice isn't for him... its for you.

Some of you are going to Hell.

"Too many Christians go around fearing death constantly, if they are going to heaven what is there to fear?
Perhaps they are just "selective christians" and truly fear they might go to whatever hell is suppose to be."

Lysergic.....well said.



regards
seekerof

Originally posted by SabbyJ
It's often called a sacrifice, when actually it's the opposite. God didn't sacrifice his son, because by letting him die, he ensured he'd be by his side in the Heavenly realm - hardly a sacrifice!

Obviously the purpose of the 'sacrifice' was more for the benefit of the people. It unified them, created a martyr and showed them that there was a higher power and life after death. It also pissed the Romans off, so all in all it achieved quite a bit.

Point of the matter, Eintein, is that Jesus didn't have to die to begin with, He did that only to pay for your debts you have not the ability to pay. None of us can pay the debt, only a perfect sacrifice could do it.

What's the big deal? Simply put, because Christ paid the price, we do not have to suffer the same penalty Satan does. Because you have freedom of choice, you decide whether or not you accept the gift of salvation offered you.

the old boys club is the bloodlines of power. applying labels like zionist is to fall for thier trap. they are the 'illuminated' elite rich and their true religion is control and power. the committee of 300, the carlyle group, the banksters, the media moguls, the bildbergers, etc....and, incidently if i was going to point a finger into that particular camp which you can't point at, i'd say it was the khazars.
it's an old book and people who follow it like it's the literal gospel truth are dangerous to the welfare of mankind. zealots need to chill.
i respect everyone's right to believe what they wish and take or leave my views. i've studied this for years. i'm just sayin'.

to quote christ himself
mark8:8
"for laying aside the commandment of god. you hold the tradition of men-the washing of pitchers and cups. and many other such things you do".
"all to well you reject the commandment of god that you may keep your tradition."
"for moses said, honor your father and mother; and, he who curses father or mother, let him be put to death"
"but you say, if a man says to his father or mother, "whatever profit you have recieved from me is corbain(a gift to god)"
"then you no longer let him do anything for his mother or father"
"making the word of god of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. and many such things you do"


in other words it is a big deal to the institutions because it is a very profitable symbol...
jesus did not die for our sins this is a lie perpetuated by the church, he died so men can recgonize sin by the actions taken against him by fellow men, know the difference...

TC, do transgendered people go to Hell?