Cheap Abundant Energy

Originally posted by Regenmacher
The saga continues, so place your bets. Will Sean McCarthy and Richard Walshe change the world forever or become another Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann?

Thanks for the link Regen. I just lost the little faith i had left in these guys ( that add they placed was - 500 points) as claiming to have broken the first law just means they do not understand the physics involved. I wonder who's funding this disinformation campaign? I might be wrong but my hopes are fading fast....

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Thanks for the link Regen. I just lost the little faith i had left in these guys ( that add they placed was - 500 points) as claiming to have broken the first law just means they do not understand the physics involved. I wonder who's funding this disinformation campaign? I might be wrong but my hopes are fading fast....

Stellar

Stellar,
Yes so it does seem the hopes are fadeing fast. Most unforchant
Although if it means anything the figuers on the web page of the inventer are still increasing.
For those interested look hear

Ive been closely looking at this device, and I don't see anything "simple".

Laes,
Great pic thanks!!
And yes I do see what you mean, I cant say it looks to simple either. I do supose it could be simple to the people who put it together though.

Supposedly these guys manufacture micro generators. If they are experts in the field, I do see how it could be possible for them to make a highly efficient generator, that could make a lot of power with little force necessary.

They could have a small motor that takes very little power to run. Hook it to a small generator that makes more power than the motor needs, and the excess power can be stored in a battery.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]

Let's get Biblical: Does anyone believe when a free energy source is found, this is what is refered to as the Fall of Babylon and the "new wine". < Oil.

Bet there'd be a lot of unhappy campers.

Like I said, if the information about how to make free energy devices is freely available, OIL companies will have no choice but to loose money.

For instance, if the information on how to efficiently use electrolysis to turn water into hydrogen, and how to make adapters for cars to run on it, is freely available. And people secretly make these devices and put them on their cars without letting the oil companies know. The oil companies cant do anything about it.

But if someone tries to patent and sell this method/device its like a big Las Vegas light's sign above your head saying. "HEY COME KILL ME BEFORE YOU LOOSE MONEY!".

funny thing is this...

if the oil companies were smart, they would take some of those billions of dollars and do their own research into alt power. they can afford it and they have to know that someday the oil will run out (unless of course the abiotic oil sources pan out)

instead of supressing it id think they'd want to be the frontrunners in the field.

remember the old addage about putting all yer eggs in one basket.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
Supposedly these guys manufacture micro generators. If they are experts in the field, I do see how it could be possible for them to make a highly efficient generator, that could make a lot of power with little force necessary.

They could have a small motor that takes very little power to run. Hook it to a small generator that makes more power than the motor needs, and the excess power can be stored in a battery.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]

Actually, no. You can't have a "highly efficient generator" that makes "a lot of power with little force".

The function of a generator is to transform mechanical energy into electrical energy. If it were 100% efficient, all the mechanical energy would end up as electrical energy...but not more. And no generator is 100% efficient.

Same with the motor.

Even if the motor were 100% efficient, and the generator 100% efficient, and you used superconductive connections bla bla, you still wouldn't create energy. It would just be a sort of flywheel.

Originally posted by bothered
Let's get Biblical: Does anyone believe when a free energy source is found, this is what is refered to as the Fall of Babylon and the "new wine". < Oil.

Bet there'd be a lot of unhappy campers.

Bothered,
You kind of lost me with the biblical refrence. Could you tell me how the fall of Babylon and the Oil play into this?

Originally posted by Damocles
if the oil companies were smart, they would take some of those billions of dollars and do their own research into alt power. they can afford it and they have to know that someday the oil will run out (unless of course the abiotic oil sources pan out)

instead of supressing it id think they'd want to be the frontrunners in the field.

Damocles,
I really do agree with you that the oil companies, could, and really should be the ones to come up with this technology. Which ever company finely found how to make it work, would be the one on the top of the ladder. However with my limited knolege, no company puts capital forth to make a change in the status que unless they really think they half to.

Its like this, they have a good thing going right now. they are makeing loads and loads of proffits. Why look for a way to change that? Bottem line, they dont want things to change!!

And that means, they will do anything to stop the the change from hapening. So the question is how far will they go? Buy people silence. Buy politishens to prevent research into alterent energy sorces. Threten with bodiley harm. More.....?

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Actually, no. You can't have a "highly efficient generator" that makes "a lot of power with little force".

The function of a generator is to transform mechanical energy into electrical energy. If it were 100% efficient, all the mechanical energy would end up as electrical energy...but not more. And no generator is 100% efficient.

Same with the motor.

Even if the motor were 100% efficient, and the generator 100% efficient, and you used superconductive connections bla bla, you still wouldn't create energy. It would just be a sort of flywheel.

I didn't say ANYTHING about 100% efficient. I just said efficient.

If you have a gernerator that can make 12volts with 10amps at 100rpm. And you have a 8volt motor that needs 1amp to run, at 100rpm, you will have enough left over to charge a battery.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
I didn't say ANYTHING about 100% efficient. I just said efficient.

If you have a gernerator that can make 12volts with 10amps at 100rpm. And you have a 8volt motor that needs 1amp to run, at 100rpm, you will have enough left over to charge a battery.

No, you won't.

I'll say it again. A generator transforms mechanical energy into electrical energy, with losses. A motor is the converse.

If you have a generator that can make 12V at 10A, fine. It will require 120W of mechanical energy input to do so, even if it is 100% efficient, which it isn't. Divide that by about 760 to get horsepower if you like mechanical energy that way instead of Watts.

You can't just think of RPM. The power level of a rotating system is a product of torque and angular velocity. In other words, it's not just the RPM, it's the torque at that RPM as well. A generator is going to reflect a mechanical load back to its driver. If I put a 120W load on a generator, it's going to require a certain level of torque as well as that RPM number. If I take off the electrical load, it will take less torque to rotate it at 100RPM. The generator's electrical load dictates the torque requirement the motor sees.

The bigger the electrical load, the harder it is to turn the generator. Even if it is a perfect generator, 100 percent efficient, it will still take 120W of mechanical power input if I am requiring 120W of electrical power out.

The motor is the same. In order to get 120W of mechanical power output, I have to put in 120W of electrical power, plus some for losses. The mechanical power output from the motor is a product of ..you guessed it..RPM and torque. A wussy little motor may indeed rotate at 100RPM, with no load. But in order to get 120W of mechanical power output, I have to put in more than 120W of electrical power.

Back to your idea, you can see that if it takes 120W of RPMxtorque to get the generator to put out 120W of electrical power, and it takes 120W of electrical power to get the motor to put out 120W of RPMxtorque, even if you have a perfect system with 100% efficiency all around, it is just a sorry sort of flywheel. With normal losses, it will immediately spin down and stop.

Originally posted by RedGolem

Originally posted by bothered
Let's get Biblical: Does anyone believe when a free energy source is found, this is what is refered to as the Fall of Babylon and the "new wine". < Oil.

Bet there'd be a lot of unhappy campers.

Bothered,
You kind of lost me with the biblical refrence. Could you tell me how the fall of Babylon and the Oil play into this?

You often hear of the Oil producing regions being referred to as the New Babylon. You know, with people drunk on a "new wine".
Maybe rather than some type of disaster, there'll just be a new discovery disclosed that disrupts merchant trade over oil.
Quick ref. (Revelation 14:8)


[edit on 8/28/2006 by bothered]

Originally posted by bothered
You often hear of the Oil producing regions being referred to as the New Babylon. You know, with people drunk on a "new wine".
Maybe rather than some type of disaster, there'll just be a new discovery disclosed that disrupts merchant trade over oil.
Quick ref. (Revelation 14:8)

Thanks Bothered,
I think I can see the comparason. Although disrupting the trade of oil I see the simplesest possibility being an armed coflict. Although be it the new technology possibility is still much favoread.

Let's get Biblical: Does anyone believe when a free energy source is found, this is what is refered to as the Fall of Babylon and the "new wine". < Oil.

Hmm I wonder if ethanol being an alcohol could be seen as "new wine" albeit a rather strong one (200 proof)

Thank you Tom Bedlam for explaining facts about electrical generation / use. More factual education and less wild speculation is what we need when discussing "free energy" so that less people fall prey to so many scams that muddy the waters for real energy pioneers.

Originally posted by RedGolem

Stellar,
Yes so it does seem the hopes are fadeing fast. Most unforchant

Although if it means anything the figuers on the web page of the inventer are still increasing.
For those interested look hear

Well interestingly enough Tom Bearden is not objecting to their word choice ( scientific description) so maybe i was just a little hasty.

peswiki.com...:LRP:A_Proposed_Proof_of_an_Overunity_Asymmetric_System_to_be_Tested

I am still busy reading Bearden's book and as far as i know it's the best on topic and it arrived at my door , on request, without it costing me a cent ( well that was more than two years ago) and if someone isn't asking you money for their scientific insight that is imo a great start.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

I am still busy reading Bearden's book and as far as i know it's the best on topic and it arrived at my door , on request, without it costing me a cent ( well that was more than two years ago) and if someone isn't asking you money for their scientific insight that is imo a great start.

Stellar

Stellar,
Yes I would very much agree that if they are not asking for money that is defently a very good start!! Also glad to hear it is good for the topic.
Thats a veary good link you posted also, thanks.

For those who are interested hear is a some information on the energy consumption in the U.S. It has charts with the figuers for differnt types of fuels for several years. It has quite a bit of information.

Biomass energy consumption amounted to 3.0 quads in 1996 and accounted for 87 percent of non-hydro renewable energy consumption. Only 22 percent of biomass energy consumption was for electricity generation. The remainder was used to provide industrial process heat. In contrast, all or nearly all of renewable energy consumption for the other fuels was used to generate electricity.

sorce information

It talks a lot about renuable energy, which by what I gathered has been makeing slow strides and some stalls in the last decade or so.

There is more then one possible sorce for cheap abundant energy. The one that was talked about at the start of this thred is still be worked on, and they are in the prosess of selecting there experts to review it. But another possible sore is Zinc air fuel cells, hear is some information that I have found.

Zero emissions
Suitable for indoor use
Non-fossil fuel sourced
Inexpensive to produce
Purchased at retail outlets
Metal Slurry
Low Fuel Cell Production Costs
No Storage or Siting Restrictions
No Shipping or Distribution Restrictions
No Fire / Explosive Hazard

advertisment web page

The companies home page give a little better information. They have patents that exspire in 2015 and 2016 so these devieces should be on the market now I just can say that I have seen any. Hear is some of what is on the home page.

There is a better way to provide clean, quiet, reliable power. To provide backup and emergency power. To deliver the power needed at remote locations. To make clean, quiet, emissions-free transportation economically viable. To reduce our dependence on fossil fuels today.

Power Air Corporation (“PAC”), a clean energy company, has now made this better way possible by developing a commercially viable Zinc-Air Fuel Cell ("ZAFC") technology that generates reliable, environmentally sustainable, zero emission energy for portable, stationary, light mobility, and transportation applications

I think it is great that many people want to change the sorce of the energy that we use. I just have yet to really see a big difference hapening. Am still hopefull though.